Social Groups

[Hakeem]

As you may know, Ralle upgraded vBulletin fairly recently.

One new feature of the upgrade was Social Groups, this is the focus of this thread.

As of yet, there are no rules in place to regulate the unique structure of social groups, resulting in ad-hoc moderation. I have made this thread for discussion of the rules that will hopefully be applied soon.


Here are some of my ideas for some basic rules:

• No double-grouping
  Akin to double-threading, do not make groups if there is already a group for the same purpose.
• No double-posting
  Okay, so maybe they aren't technically posts, and don't count for posts, show the post management buttons, edits messages, or even support all the BBCode for regular posts, but they can still be edited right?

So what are your ideas social group rules?

---

P.S. - Why was TLoPGaS deleted? What was wrong with it?

 

[Dr Super Good]

No double-posting rule seems stupid as if a thread is inactive, you should be allowed to double post to try and regain activity. No double posting within 2-4 days sounds better.

 

[Masiah]

The double-grouping idea is fine, but I think it's useless to apply the double-posting rule. It's way to chaotic and informal to do that, and social groups don't tend to get spammy as they don't count for post count, as you said.

 

[Pyritie]

No double-posting rule seems stupid as if a thread is inactive, you should be allowed to double post to try and regain activity. No double posting within 2-4 days sounds better.

The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site - FAQ: Overall Site Rules

They should follow the same rules of the forum, in terms of double-posting.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

As far as I'm concerned, the very dignity of the site is at stake (And has since their inception been depleted) by simply allowing these groups to exist. Too bad I don't get a vote option in the poll. *Pout*

 

[Captain Griffen]

Pfft, let double posting lie. It's a personal rather than public 'forum'. You could just give mod powers to the person in charge of the group for stuff like that.

 

[lord_ken]

The Hive was rather ripped apart by these... Social Groups.
I don't know what else to do.

Oh and i agree on the Double-Posting.

 

[Sansui]

I don't see how these social groups have any effect on the hive.
Even more double posting should be a null issue in these group threads since it shouldn't matter unless the group creator cares.

The only time someone should step in would be because of a flame war or some stupid spam mess of repeated pointless posts.

 

[Devine]

Social groups had a bad influence on the hive ...
the 'jury of awesomeness' for example :/ created a big whole between pro's and noobs

 

[Dr Super Good]

It would be useful if you would have a notification if a social group you joined receives a message / picture. Currently many people join a social group, make one message and forget about it which does not help its activity. If they were constantly being reminded about it, then a lot more groups would be active.

 

[PurplePoot]

At least an option, anyways. That's definitely a good point, though.

 

[Sansui]

Yea and moderators should not be allowed threaten groups with false accusations and edit the group description with crap. I would like to see that as a rule.

Social groups had a bad influence on the hive ...
the 'jury of awesomeness' for example :/ created a big whole between pro's and noobs

What the hell are you talking about. The jury of awesomeness has nothing to do with any gap or trolls. Just because some members of said group are outspoken does not have anything to do with the group itself. It is instead people like you creating the rift and making it wider because of your ignorance.

 

[~Void~]

I was promoted as social group moderator 1-2 days ago and iv posted my basic rules to Ralle and Ghan already.

Double posting i think is okay, but over that and its spam.

and yes, i dont allow multigroups eg "Modelers, Modelers workshop and modelers unite"

You may have overlooked a few groups that contain lots of trolling and a bit of spamming :|

 

[FamousPker49]

You may have overlooked a few groups that contain lots of trolling and a bit of spamming :|

And which might u be refering to?

 

[Hakeem]

I was promoted as social group moderator 1-2 days ago

You mean we had a moderator before we even had rules?

iv posted my basic rules to Ralle and Ghan already.

And got loads of feedback I'm sure. Between the three of you, you'd make the perfect set of rules right?

Okay, seriously, why did it take this long to start this thread? Should have been made the day of the upgrades...

Deletion of Anti/Hate groups

As long as they don't turn into firestorms, it shouldn't be a problem, but look what happens to the threads made for hate...

Deletion of User Worship groups (only creates drama/trolling)

Well I don't think it draws drama or trolling by its nature, but I don't think we need a group for every user who's respected by someone else...

Deletion of inactive/dead/useless usergroups

Okay, now I think we need to seriously consider this one.

I think it is not proper to the environment. Do we delete old threads? No. Old posts? No. Anything old? I don't see why we should, a forum is meant to be recorded, no?

This brings me to necroposting. I'm really don't know what to do about that. Maybe, maybe not. (I still don't see the big deal with necroposting anyway.)

Max joining of 20 users groups (considerations and increases of this can be made) *Clearly not enough*

I don't think we need to limit it. If there are groups that apply to you, why shouldn't you be in them? Also a great feature would be the option for group creators to allow member not in the group to post, but I didn't make this thread to increase Ralle's workload, just to make some rules to work with what we've got at the moment.

I will be looking out for:
Trolling
Flaming
Spamming
Advertising

Regular rules for post contents, of course.

and yes, i dont allow multigroups eg "Modelers, Modelers workshop and modelers unite"

I was thinking more along the lines of anime groups, but that works too.

 

[donut3.5]

I think starting a group should be like starting a clan:
You must have at least 5-10 people initially join (or some minimum limit) so we get rid of the ones random users make on a whim. Or at least some of them.
All other site rules should apply.
--donut3.5--

 

[Sabertooth]

I think it's fine as it is. Though Donut's suggestion is pretty good.
And if we're getting changes either way, I go with Hakeem.

 

[CrazyChao]

The members and founders of social groups should be able to govern their establishments freely and with whatever authority they wish so long as it does not interfere with normal, public forum governing.

 

[donut3.5]

The members and founders of social groups should be able to govern their establishments freely and with whatever authority they wish so long as it does not interfere with normal, public forum governing.

No. Just because you can click a few buttons and create a group doesn't grant you automatic power. And plus, most groups will, in the least, indirectly, effect relations in the forum.
--donut3.5--

 

[Hakeem]

No, it just takes up space and makes the social group area messy.

That's what I said about users, but apparently Ralle has lot's of space to spare...

Being in a anime group and an anti-anime group doesnt make sense Pyritie

Hey! I did my fair share of that too!


I think we might set down some rules about what qualifies for a social group, because a lot of them would be better as threads.

EDIT: Or polls. A great many would be suited for the polls feature.

 

[Sansui]

Woah wait a minute!
If anti-naruto groups are not allowed because people should know when to speak about subjects than a FURRIES groups and other socially taboo subjects should not be allowed.
Anti subject groups should be allowed just as much as pro subject groups. It is not right to hide the negative because you can't take it.
Hiding something and removing things you do not like does not prevent problems, it HIDES them for a short period of time and only causes larger problems in the future. It is best to openly deal with problems or to cure them as to not have an outbreak that decimates the populations in the future.

OMG NOOOOO SOMEONE DOES NTO SHAREZ SAME VIEW AS ME NOOOO THEY IZ TROLL AND EVIL I MUSTZ HIDE IT!!!!!111!!

And yea why is someone who calls them self socially eccentric and bad with people, the moderator of social groups.
That is rather ass backwards but I guess that is to be expected here at the hive.

Here is how the design works:

1. The Hive's site and it's General rules (includes forum rules)
   1. Forums
   2. Chatroom and its rules
   3. Social groups and its rules with management by its creators/members

So that is why the rules are broken there is two sets of forum rules.

Also sam, no one said social groups should have its own rules without regard to the sites rules, please learn to read.

 

[Ash]

My group was deleted 3 times, and only after posting a massive paragraph saying 'TALK TO ME BEFORE YOU TOUCH THIS GROUP' did the moderator actually give me a reason. That reason was 'trolling'.

Well, forgive me for thinking social groups are supposed to unite people with similar interests and all, I didn't know people that like Naruto join the Anti-Naruto Force. But that's not just it, though. Whomever is modding the social groups is behaving like a nazi.

Get rid of the social group mods and I'll stick with what I said; 'leave the moderation of my group to me, I've been doing a fine job of it so far'.

 

[Sansui]

I love how the anti-naruto groups are deleted but there is complete spam groups like gay colors in chat, warm colored names, straight colored names, pink purple names, say something nice group(UTTER SPAM), two pokemon groups, two greeting groups, Furries, ---, encyclopedia dramatica lovers!(I was banned for defending someone who linked to a clean ED page, so why does a group exist?)

 

[Kimbo]

And Sansui, groups are still in pending, I have not finished so dont use the stupid "BUT X GROUP IS HERE WHY ARE THE ONES I OWN/WAS IN GONE BWAWAA! UNFAIR!"

Anti/Hate groups are inflammatory groups which count as trolling, and on this site we require community friendliness not 2 group distinction between users based on a simple interest or fandom who pit themselves against each other as form of entertainment and use the excuse of freedom of speech to get their way of harassment. It is NOT right, really.
You are not respecting other people's rights when you induce hate based on on a selfish or biased opinions you must be reasonable and PROVE that you are. There will always be a right and a wrong, and this requires what is right. If you have DISLIKE for something and its in a REASONABLE and CONSTRUCTIVE manner then you have the right to post it in order to induce what is right, but whining, trolling attempts and the rilling of peoples negative emotions to gain responses such as the Anti-Naruto group did is wrong. Two wrongs dont make a right, really. its that simple.
The staff also decide what is socially taboo with reason, not the miseducated majority of people or the popular decisions, its all about the hard ones, however it must be noted the staff are human and there wont be true equality between eachothers opinions.
Really, instead of respecting hate, you should be inducing tolerance to the positives, not hate. Hate destroys a society and a community, it tears people apart and NO ONE in their right mind wants this or do you?

Also dont pull the whole "BUT STAFF AND USERS ARE DISCRIMNATED AGAISNT EACHOTHJER " No, they are not, if anything your hate and unconstructive and misguided whining is making yourself distant from the staff. The staff merely have authority and have rights granted to them over the one who owns this "house", they are merely a group of people with rights given to them to enforce stablity, what is right and to build a community, if you have a problem or think their is injustice given from the staff then instead of whining you take it into a constructive manner and talk to the staff member, if that does not work and there is no justice or reason then you take it to the one who gave them rights. No society will ever be truely equal and humans will always distance themselves into groups. But being in staff doesnt make your any better or lower than the newest member at hive in terms of being people and to think users and staff are so blank and white is a bias and misguided opinion.

Now, instead of being constructive in a negative manner, i suggest you post more positive points such as new rules, what to improve on ( WHICH INCLUDES how) and changes you would like based on sensible reasons. Becuase after this, Im going to have a talk on starting over anew in the social groups if the admins agree with me after I heard a suggestion by another staff member.

Done? Okay, good, now im waiting for more reasonable and constructive points more relevant to the threads purpose I they will fall under deaf ears (complaints). I want to get people's input on the threads purpose done as rich and full as possible to induce new plans that may come to pass.

 

[Hakeem]

leave the moderation of my group to me, I've been doing a fine job of it so far

I don't have a problem with users moderating the groups they create, but under the general site rules, the moderators have to moderate it as well. When a message is posted in your group that violates the rules, the first person capable of moderating the message should do so.

What this thread is intended for is to decide upon a set of rules to determine what can be allowed to be a social group.

First and foremost, a social group is a collection of users. Currently, social groups also have an option to attach a thread and/or an image gallery. This should be considered secondary in determining rules.

---

As a general rule, I think it would be good to distinguish between something that's thread material, poll material, and group material.

Things that everybody has, like post count, birthdays, rep, a place to live, opinions, are poll material. It's not something that really matters beyond a statistic.

Next are actual groups (The Jury, The Guild of Right, dragons, MLGM, poets...) and interests (StarCraft, the medieval times, mapping, Warhammer, gaming...). These are group material, they represent a collection of users.

If it fits in neither of those categories, then it's sure to fit into the category "subject", making it thread material.

Thoughts?

 

[donut3.5]

And then there's the Something Else, of course.
But that set of guidelines looks good, and I do still believe in official appointed moderators looking over the groups.
--donut3.5--

 

[Captain Griffen]

This is most definately an area for the directors/admins to decide, rather than individual moderators to come up with policies such as this.

Either Ghan the AFKave (as community director), or a general director/admin vote.

 

[Deathcom3s]

Okay, seriously, why did it take this long to start this thread? Should have been made the day of the upgrades...

Simply because no one could have forseen the problems that they now cause.

As stated before, creating a social group should not be a means to obtain meager amounts of power that give you self-satisfaction.

On another topic, creators of social groups can't always be expected to moderate their groups. Therefore I think the idea of a Social Group moderator was a good idea.

 

[Hakeem]

Simply because no one could have forseen the problems that they now cause.

Actually, Dr Super Good predicted just that.

 

[Steel_Stallion]

There should be a limit to how many user groups you can join, people dont even join social groups because they share the same interest of the group. People are joining for the sake of joining.

I'm sick of going into profiles and seeing people with 120 joined social groups. Should be limited to < 8

 

[Pyritie]

I'm sick of going into profiles and seeing people with 120 joined social groups. Should be limited to < 8

Highest I've seen was 108, and that was me. MSBB had 105 or so before the wipe. :/

 

[Steel_Stallion]

I was just saying a random number for the sake of argument, don't take it literally, Pyritie.

 

[Captain Griffen]

Actually, Dr Super Good predicted just that.

Social groups are lame, and people are lame, put them together and lameness will ensure; hence why WC3C will never have them. But hey, this ain't my site, and I don't want to sway general policies that are subjective like that.

 

[Linaze]

*cough* agreed with griffen *cough*