Social Groups

[nastyboy_44]

See, the ducks will fall. Based on my conspiracy theory.
But you deleted the MasterHaosis Fan Club D: OMG

 

[Ralle]

I'm noticing a very interesting pattern in the groups that were kept...

OH! DRAMA! BZZT! IT'S DRAMA! THE ANSWER IS DRAMA! I'M SURE OF IT!

Aside from hideous usage of buzzword, the groups came after the meme. The duck groups being deleted hasn't changed a single avatar that I know of. Of course, I may be wrong, so feel free to cite... OH. WAIT.


Okay, yeah, so it is best to have rules before you go about doing something, but how are we supposed to make rules without any information on how people use the feature? Without using all the groups that had been made so far as a reference, we have to start the rule making process again. This means constant rule revision. If we use the old groups as a reference, we have lots of material that we can use to make a solid set of rules.

The social groups weren't even supposed to exist on hive in the first place. They came with an update and I did not disable them back then.
People have too many places to hang out on hive, it is becoming facebook 2.0.

Obviously those ones were ones to delete, but that is NOT what all the groups were. There were many more groups than the two that remain that should not have been deleted.

Well you could have told me, I had a thread in mod's lobby of which groups to keep, it was there 2-3 weeks before I even did anything.

Sorry for the caps, it just seems obvious to me that there were so many groups that should be kept, but were thrown out on a quick decision.

You seem to not know anything of what's going on in mod's lobby. We have talked about it the last month and I have considered it for 2-3 months.

Ralle is not capable of handling a baby.

Ehm, yes I am.

Try to calm down. The best way to get Ralle to reconsider what he has done is not to make this thread too long for him to read. Voice your complaints, but keep them short.

I do consider doing something. I am just not sure yet.

Most but not all! There were several social groups that had a lot of project data in them, such as my social group. Damn it I knew I should have backed up all the info!

Ralle, why didn't you give us a few days to retrieve anything we might need from the groups?!

I have backups. Which groups should be imported back in if I decide to do that? ONLY serious ones like modding, projects. Otherwise I will just leave it.

Ralle you want to start a war with the indonesians? Our group got deleted, you call it spam groups?

Please bring back this group, because we need it. Else we will bring this to another height... We got project data and discussions that are important. We need to atleast retrieve it if u can't restore it...

Yes indonesia is spam. Who cares where you are from, you speak english on an english site about stuff that has NOTHING to do with indonesia. No offence. That's like the "I am danish" group, I honestly don't care and it's full of rule violations.

It is rather dissapointing that Ralle didn't tell us about it. I only hope that the RPs (Order of Elders and Order of RP) and the freespace mod survive. WE had a heck of a lot of info on those, and the RPs were for pure fun. Now we don't have backstories. I really hope Ralle decides to bring back the groups that weren't spam. Still surprised he didn't check the groups first. At least contact the hosts to see what's going on. Good advice there. warning at least a week ahead, in case people were camping or busy. It'd allow for the mod groups and RP groups to save stuff and possibly not be deleted. I don't know what Ralle did, but he just played king and got rid of it without a poll or advice. Would've preferred a poll to see if we wanted the groups deleted. maybe mark down every group and have people vote on the ones they want to keep. The inactive ones go anyway (2-3 posts a week).

I have it ALL if we need it

See, the ducks will fall. Based on my conspiracy theory.
But you deleted the MasterHaosis Fan Club D: OMG

Yes, another spam group.

I may have gone a bit too far. I am still not sure what to use social groups for. I never knew they would be in that patch I applied.

I will do what I can to make the majority happy. I need a list of groups that we cannot live without. I am just sure this thread will get too long so I cannot read it, I hope Hakeem will compile a list of the groups that are suggested after this post, the serious/relevant ones that is.

 

[Misha]

The social groups weren't even supposed to exist on hive in the first place. They came with an update and I did not disable them back then.
People have too many places to hang out on hive, it is becoming facebook 2.0.

I for one, do not remember Hive without the social groups.... and i think that the old ones were good enough.

I will do what I can to make the majority happy. I need a list of groups that we cannot live without. I am just sure this thread will get too long so I cannot read it, I hope Hakeem will compile a list of the groups that are suggested after this post, the serious/relevant ones that is.

well... as for me... it's only my 2 groups Order of Elders (as an RP group), and Bas Celik (my campaign development).... not rly interested about other.....

oh, and yes, Naga fans and freespace modding. i was pretty active in these.

 

[DoOs_101]

Yes indonesia is spam. Who cares where you are from, you speak english on an english site about stuff that has NOTHING to do with indonesia. No offence. That's like the "I am danish" group, I honestly don't care and it's full of rule violations.

Disrespectful you are. That group is not suppose to be about indonesia, it just brings Indonesians together and please state to me these rules that we've violated. You maybe Danish, and I understand you europeans have lost your nationalism, but it hurts me to say that my Indonesian group is useless and full of spams when its intentions are to bring those Indonesian who are new to Hiveworkshop together and start them off (teach them), since most of them have bad English.

Now that you've known what the Indonesian Mapmaker group is for, lets ask the people if they'd agree this is a spam. Does good will = spam people?

Yet also, you did not warn us about this. Atleast you could have given us a chance to backup some members list and data about the project we were doing.

My concern is that you've been disrespectful to many people. I understand this is your website, but when you've deleted someone's creation and they complained, you cannot simply just say "I don't care", this is disrespectful.

Please reconsider these words. I'm not trying to make anything worse, but you gotta be fair.

 

[Ralle]

Disrespectful you are. That group is not suppose to be about indonesia, it just brings Indonesians together and please state to me these rules that we've violated. You maybe Danish, and I understand you europeans have lost your nationalism, but it hurts me to say that my Indonesian group is useless and full of spams when its intentions are to bring those Indonesian who are new to Hiveworkshop together and start them off (teach them), since most of them have bad English.

Now that you've known what the Indonesian Mapmaker group is for, lets ask the people if they'd agree this is a spam. Does good will = spam people?

Yet also, you did not warn us about this. Atleast you could have given us a chance to backup some members list and data about the project we were doing.

My concern is that you've been disrespectful to many people. I understand this is your website, but when you've deleted someone's creation and they complained, you cannot simply just say "I don't care", this is disrespectful.

Please reconsider these words. I'm not trying to make anything worse, but you gotta be fair.

In general, social groups are spam. The average group is spam.

Yes I have no nationalism, cause I think it's bs. But your description of the group sounds good.

Sorry that I did not give a warning.

I never wanted us to have social groups.

 

[Misha]

there is gonna be a lot of argue here..... x_X

EDIT: Ralle... if you treat all social groups as spam that is weird x_X

wherever you wanted or not the social groups, people have become acustomed to 'em...... deleting all and remaining without any is just........... weird X_x

 

[Hakeem]

People have too many places to hang out on hive, it is becoming facebook 2.0.

The features don't determine how people act, the site does. Facebook is billed as a social networking site. People go there for social networking. Hive is billed as a WC3 modding site. People come here for WC3 modding. You can see this is the case because there were social groups about WC3 modding.

Yes, I do think social groups were put into vBulletin because they got the idea from social networking sites. That doesn't mean the only use for the feature is purely socializing and nothing else. The reason they were spammy was because we never made a set of rules for them.

Can we please start calling them something other name than "social groups?" It's like saying they are purely social.

Well you could have told me, I had a thread in mod's lobby of which groups to keep, it was there 2-3 weeks before I even did anything.

Yeah, I read that, I just didn't realize that you were going to go ahead and delete all the groups though...
My suggestion was:

For now, why don't we just start with categorizing them?

I am still not sure what to use social groups for.

I'll admit, vB did implement the concept badly, but they still do have use. This is another thing about deleting them, you can't see how they were used.

I hope Hakeem will compile a list of the groups that are suggested after this post, the serious/relevant ones that is.

It'd be easier if I had a list of all of them to go through. Generally things are easier to work with when not in deleted form.

I think it'd be easiest to just undelete them, so I can categorize and moderate them all in one go. Until we create a set of rules to govern them with, we can keep them locked down. This also allows everyone to get their data even if their group ends up deleted.

 

[Ralle]

Grr I will see what I can do

 

[Tleno]

This is not the way to solve the problem. Of course, 90% of all social groups were... shall we say, not useful. But you can't stop a human (Or a troll ) who wants to spam this way.
I think we would need some kinda like "Report about whole social group" or "Social group moderator" (If we already have then we need more!).

P.S. Why "Race creators" was deleted? That was a serious social group, we had requirements, and we were making races for campaings and altered melee maps.

 

[Hakeem]

"Social group moderator" (If we already have then we need more!).

We haven't had one, which is why so many were spam.

 

[Captain Griffen]

*yawn*

Ralle really should have given people warning. But on the other hands, socail groups should never have been on the site to start with.

Just bear in mind for the future either go tight rules or don't (or just disable it for good). Don't go by 'if you have a mod/admin friend' rules.

 

[PurplePoot]

I'm of the opinion they should be used only for private subforums of a sort, when approved by the relevant admin.

Look, guys, everyone wants to keep their social group(s) in, but there are two obvious problems in that.

• Most of those ARE spam.
• There were more and more problems erupting from social groups recently, and even with a moderator or two in place handling several hundred spammy groups with ~100 pages of posts is completely unfeasible.

What's wrong with forum threads? That's all these things really managed to be anyways, although more obscure (Which is a bad thing).

 

[TheDivineBoss]

Technicly I don't care about (anti-)Social groups, but you could have given at least some warning Rasmus. This aint a dictatorship (although all the power is in your hands, comments are being controlled, violators being removed and it seems the Void is always hungry for more)

 

[Super-Sheep]

We will hopefully soon have a ruleset on how to deal with social groups.

Every time someone wants to create a new group he sends a message to you (or shamans?) and if it gets accepted then the group is created.

 

[Hakeem]

Look, guys, everyone wants to keep their social group(s) in, but there are two obvious problems in that.

• Most of those ARE spam.

People aren't complaining about losing those.

There were more and more problems erupting from social groups recently, and even with a moderator or two in place handling several hundred spammy groups with ~100 pages of posts is completely unfeasible.

This is true. Once we moderate them that wont be the case though. (Even though that is already an exaggeration and isn't the case.)

 

[Devine]

Good.
Nuff said.

 

[Tleno]

Now we only need to decide who will be social group moderators! Anyone?

There were more and more problems erupting from social groups recently, and even with a moderator or two in place handling several hundred spammy groups with ~100 pages of posts is completely unfeasible.

Moderators will work as a scarecrows and will scare all those spamers, and even 1 moderator can take care of few social groups in a week.
Moderators are like cops, only I can't imagine how you can bribe them.

 

[Linaze]

Good.
Nuff said.

Nuff said.

 

[Misha]

The problem is with the too many popping discussions, and that's why the old social groups were better. is there a way for an group owner to just decide which discussion to accept and which to decline?

social group moderator? aren't we alreaddy havin' one D:

 

[Devine]

it wouldn't be that hard to promote a guy or 2.

 

[Tleno]

it wouldn't be that hard to promote a guy or 2.

We can't pick a random guy and make him moderator. He must be honest and well... have good reputation (Not those green gems, I mean that people respect him).



EDIT: Now there are no any social groups at all. Weird.

 

[chenlimin]

Social group used to be a place where all spam/flame/retard goes. Deleting the whole thing might put a end to social group spam, but where will all the spam go next?

 

[Ralle]

*yawn*

Ralle really should have given people warning. But on the other hands, socail groups should never have been on the site to start with.

Yes.

I have disabled social groups for now. I have reimported all the old groups. Hakeem will start a purge next time I see him.

 

[Misha]

Social group used to be a place where all spam/flame/retard goes. Deleting the whole thing might put a end to social group spam, but where will all the spam go next?

into our beloved forums =/

 

[Velmarshal]

Finally.

 

[Pyritie]

Social group used to be a place where all spam/flame/retard goes. Deleting the whole thing might put a end to social group spam, but where will all the spam go next?

Something Else, which is where it all should've been in the first place.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Wow, I go to sleep, write 1 higher maths exam and come home to find this...
All in all you only have your selves to blame, what with spamming them and all.
If you actually were constructive with them and made useful ones, then this would not have happened.
Now my beautiful Chaos Sanctuary and Drunken Brawlers groups were deleted....

 

[Azeroc]

Ahhh I got idea... Its so sweet that there is one clean nice place, How about deleting social groups every 2-5 years? =D

Afterall Would be nice that you create group and moderator/administrator must accept creation or not, to keep off those mass fail/useless groups...

 

[Devine]

Yes.

I have disabled social groups for now. I have reimported all the old groups. Hakeem will start a purge next time I see him.

poor hakeem?

 

[Tleno]

Poor Pyritie. You know how much time did he spent to join completely all of the social groups?
Oh... I think that we are kinda starting to talk more about people than about all this thing...

 

[Zombie]

Great move, I say. 99% of them consisted of nothing more but senseless spam. Even though my modding social group with 1350 posts got deleted aswell, I'm totally in good terms with this move.

 

[Chaos.]

Wow, alot of posts in one night. The naga fans and race creators are a great addition to the hive resources. Because of these two groups several models, skins, UI, maps, campaings, and storylines, have been or are in the process of being created. And if you let us keep them, you will definately see alot more resources from them. Please keep those two. The social groups have become one of the most entertaining feature on the hive for alot of people, myself included. So removing them will make our time on the hive alot more boring. Please keep some of the groups. You will make alot of people happy.

 

[Tleno]

100% Agree to Chaos.
I don't know how about naga fans, becauce then we will need to "Let in" other race fans, but Race Creators is essential. And there can be Naga race too ^^

 

[Misha]

100% Agree to Chaos.
I don't know how about naga fans, becauce then we will need to "Let in" other race fans, but Race Creators is essential. And there can be Naga race too ^^

naga fans was as esential as my Bas Celik campaign making group tleno-chan ~.~

 

[Chaos.]

The naga death knight, and 67chrome's 2 naga skins were inspired by that group. And both misha and var are now creating a warlord najentus model. And im sure that they will be making several more naga models. We discuss them all in that group. The difference between the naga fans and 95% of the other social group is that the naga fans actually inspire and help develope resources. So i think that it is one of the most usefull social groups that there is.

 

[Misha]

The naga death knight, and 67chrome's 2 naga skins were inspired by that group. And both misha and var are now creating a warlord najentus model. And im sure that they will be making several more naga models. We discuss them all in that group. The difference between the naga fans and 95% of the other social group is that the naga fans actually inspire and help develope resources. So i think that it is one of the most usefull social groups that there is.

i wouldn't go that far... but Naga fans was a resource creating group.

 

[Elenai]

It seems to me...that an orphanage's worth of babies were thrown out with the bathwater before even an inkling of a public warning was given other than 'rumour'. >.>

 

[NoAmmoSrry]

It seems to me...that an orphanage's worth of babies were thrown out with the bathwater before even an inkling of a public warning was given other than 'rumour'. >.>

I knew Ralle was not capable of handling babies lmao.

 

[HailFireer]

I am with social group removal for now. There has benn a lot of flaming and trolling in some groups (I used to be activ in a lot of em, but resantly left most), but not all of them.
Best course is that rules are made for social gorups, and then groups returned.
As for spam, well social groups had a point in that. Spam is always presant on all forums, no matter how much mods thry to "kill" it. Social groups moved the spam from treads to some other part of the hive, MUCH less mportant.
Like I sed, rules should be made as fast as posible, and then social groups reactivated.
Maybe even a moderator could be put to check social groups, someone who likes being a member of them, and is trustable.

 

[Chaos.]

Naga Fans
Race Creators
Freespace Modding
Bas Celik
Pokemon RPG
Order of the Eldars
Order of RPing

There's your list of groups that people want back. In the end it's up to you Ralle. Make your rules, and we (as group leaders) will follow and enforce them. People have just been doing what the name says, being "social", but if you want to turn social groups into modding groups then thats fine. Just please keep my naga fans. As soon as im done my current campaign i am going to make a naga one, and that is where i was planning on discussing and developing it there.

 

[PurplePoot]

Moderators will work as a scarecrows and will scare all those spamers, and even 1 moderator can take care of few social groups in a week.

So you're suggesting it would take a hundred or so weeks of work for them to be cleaned up? That only reinforces the point.

--

Everyone just wanted their special social group to stay and everyone else's to go. This was a good, thorough solution.

 

[Squiggy]

I kinda liked them

 

[PurplePoot]

They're unfeasible for a moderated forum and were getting out of hand.

 

[Kercyn]

I guess that had to be done... I'm looking forward for some new social groups

 

[HappyCockroach]

I only ask you to keep this group:

• Race Creators

This is an example of social group that actually work and is well ran by its owner.

 

[PurplePoot]

I only ask you to keep this group:

• Race Creators

This is an example of social group that actually work and is well ran by its owner.

Why not just make a forum thread? It's not as if social groups are really different.

Or apply for a hosted forum, if you really do that much, as they are given away pretty liberally.

 

[Ash]

Couldn't see a problem with them, really. Y'know, people make social groups to be social. To argument that you deleted them because they're off-topic, or getting out of hand, is moot; SE and OT exists.

 

[Misha]

well... nothing more to say.. =/

 

[NoAmmoSrry]

I think Ralle is suggesting that we become anti-social.... idk that just what i think

 

[Masiah]

Couldn't see a problem with them, really. Y'know, people make social groups to be social. To argument that you deleted them because they're off-topic, or getting out of hand, is moot; SE and OT exists.

Don't give him ideas D: