Siege of Orgrimmar Raid

[Razosh]

So Blizzard has just announced that the final patch of Mists of Pandaria will be the siege of Orgrimmar which will be a raid where both factions can fight Garrosh and end his rule. There will be 3 modes to this raid Raid Finder, Normal and Heroic.

So as I have mentioned several times the Horde now exists out of three parts the first being Garrosh and the orcs the second being Vol'Jin and Baine Bloodhoof along with the trolls and the taurens and we also have Sylvanas Windrunner and Lor'Themar Theron along with the forsaken and the sin'dorei. And we also have the goblins who are scattered all over the Horde. So as I have alweys wanted Vol'Jin and Baine is going to kill Garrosh and give the throne to someone who can handle it beter then any random 3 year old could. So hopefully Vol'Jin will take the throne and unite the Horde under one banner once again.

So what are your wievs on the last raid of world of warcraft.

 

[Arcisal]

BLIZZARD FINALLY LISTENED TO US!

But seriously, this is great for us Hordies. Garrosh was just a pain in the ass. Not only did he kill a beloved WC3 character (Cairne), intentional or not is yet to be known, but he also "whopped" our (or at least my) all-time favorite character, Thrall. His rule was one of arrogance and I'll be glad to rid of the scum that desecrated the honor that (once) defined the Horde under Thrall.

However, I don't think Vol'jin would take the throne. For one, the orcs as a race would be technically speaking, leaderless. Vol'jin already leads the Darkspear tribe and that leaves the position of both the leader of the orcs, including Ogrimmar plus the leader of the Horde empty. My eyes are on either Nazgrel or Rexxar even, but highly unlikely the former would be selected since he's already the Champion of the Horde.

Either ways, it would definitely be epic. The first smart move by Blizzard since the release of WotLK.

 

[rcshaggy]

I'm looking forward to striking down Garrosh for what he did to my Horde, and damn Thrall why did you listen to Cairne or even given Garrosh this power?
Well anyway like I said I'm really excited to make sure I have a level ninety Pandaren Monk for the Horde going after Garrosh.

 

[Razosh]

Even if it may appear like the orcs were leaderless if Vol'Jin took the throne i still support him as our leader since he as I said before seems to be the only one who can unite the Horde again. And even though I admit that Baine Bloodhoof is a good person he does not appear to be as skilled at leading an empire as Vol'Jin is. And Thrall is not coming back which I think is good since he left the Horde to join the Earthen Ring and since I think we've seen alitle to much of him in Cataclysm.

And I do not for a second that Vol'Jin does not want to claim the throne since his statements in the past has pointed at the direct opposite if we for example take a look at his argue with Garrosh Hellscream that we see in the troll starting quest chain Garrosh says to Vol'Jin.
"Don't talk back to me, troll. You know who was left in charge here. Haven't you stopped to ask yourself why Thrall chose me instead of you?"
To which Vol'Jin responds.
"Dere be no question why, Garrosh. He gave ya tha title because ya be Grom's Son and because tha people be wantin' a war hero."

And besides the one I think is most likely to take the throne if not Vol'Jin, Baine or Sylvanas is Saurfang and that would just seem like Blizzard gave the title to the next random war general which would seem alot wierder then giving it to Vol'Jin.

Edit: And I think the Horde will actully get the bigger bone when it comes to lore in Mists of Pandaria because of all that's going around with the Horde right now.

 

[Chaosy]

they will add a challange mode too wich is harder than heroic

 

[Razosh]

Yes but that's not a part of the final patch that's part of 4.0.

 

[Fussiler1]

Finally! Maybe they'll install some council where each race has a representative.

 

[Razosh]

And how would that end for the goblins? It would turn into a civil war within the race and to not speak about that the orcs would be strongly against it and almost everyone would be against letting Sylvanas get a say in the matter.

No personally I hope that Vol'Jin takes the throne and that someday Jaina kicks Varian of the throne and the grown ups can lead the horde and the alliance.

 

[Fussiler1]

And how would that end for the goblins? It would turn into a civil war within the race and to not speak about that the orcs would be strongly against it and almost everyone would be against letting Sylvanas get a say in the matter.

Federations have worked before and it's a way of ensuring that dominant leaders won't harm the Horde again (Garrosh).

 

[Arcisal]

I'm still opting for Nazgrel to resume command over the Horde once Garrosh has been disposed off. Maybe they'll finally expand on the Sabellian and Rexxar thing in MoP.

 

[Razosh]

Well hopefully they're going to bring back Alleria and Veeresa into the story and use Sylvanas alitle more, because I can't think about anything more epic then a battle betwen Alleria and Sylvanas or Vereesa and Sylvanas. It's a litle sad though that both of the sisters side with the Alliance even if it's not supprising it's alitle sad.

 

[_PV]

Nazgrel was an OP character in the Warcraft 3 campaign, and in WoW he is just randomly in Thrallmar inside the hall. I one-up for NAZGREL for king

 

[Razosh]

I still think Cairne and Vol'Jin would have a hard time accepting both Nazgrel and Saurfang as their WarChief since I think that they want to be as carefull in choosing a new leader as one could possibly be.

Also one thing that I find wierd is why are the old gods not doing anything? We have three old gods allive but they are all having tea and biscuits while the Horde and the Alliance is all enjoying a huge war.

Another thing that I have thought about is where is Murozond because he's still alive and out there somwhere?

 

[Wolfe]

This is exciting news.

However, the orcs will not tolerate the leadership of an 'alien'. This is why Thrall did not elect Vol'jin to take the role, or Cairne, despite both being older and wiser. Drek'thar is also out of the picture as he must lead the Frostwolf Clan and I doubt we'll see much become of Nazgrel other than the pointless stationary role he plays in Outland. My bet is on Saurfang, chiefly because the orcs as a people desire a leader who is a warrior. Saurfang is also the one who has been watching over Garrosh, and is currently one of the more 'experienced' in acknowledging the orcs' former bloodlust and is very anti-demon.

I am also waiting for them to expand Sylvanas' storyline. She was in Northrend for a great deal of time, why was she not confronted by her sister? Better yet, why did she not see her? I'd guess because of who she has become. Involving Vereesa, and perhaps Alleria, into a storyline with Sylvanas could reveal a different side to the Banshee Queen and develop her character further. I don't know, I think Blizzard would rather see the Forsaken leave the Horde and Sylvanas go on an massive genocidal campaign against the living and end up killing her. >.>

 

[Razosh]

I doubt Blizzard would kill Sylvanas since that means that the forsaken and the sin'dorei would die since Sylvanas is the only one who holds back the scourge in Quel'Thalas. If Sylvanas would die there would be no one to take her place and the forsaken would fall and the sin'dorei would be vulnereble to both the scourge and the alliance and witheout no resistance in the eastern kingdoms the alliance would soner or later take Kalimdor to.

 

[Wolfe]

The Horde have proven that they can hold their own without the Forsaken. As for Sylvanas being replaced, Blizzard is well-known for replacing loved characters.

But this thread isn't about that! DIE GARROSH!

 

[_PV]

I vote: GAMON for warchief!

 

[Arcisal]

Also one thing that I find wierd is why are the old gods not doing anything? We have three old gods allive but they are all having tea and biscuits while the Horde and the Alliance is all enjoying a huge war.

It's typical of Blizzard. My best guess would be that they slip in a few insignificant dialogues or even quests to nurture the curiosity that this question creates. They've shown to do it in TBC as well as WotLK. Maybe they're saving them for another expansion? But either ways, I disagree with the old gods being idle. C'thun and Yogg-Saron were both defeated rendering them incapable of any action (or maybe not?) for a while and N'zath, while still on the loose, hasn't really been expanded in. But take a look at Twilight Highlands. There's some evidence of their activity.

My bet is on Saurfang, chiefly because the orcs as a people desire a leader who is a warrior. Saurfang is also the one who has been watching over Garrosh, and is currently one of the more 'experienced' in acknowledging the orcs' former bloodlust and is very anti-demon.

Exactly why he, IMO, shouldn't be the next Warchief. Instead, he should remain as adviser and hero of the Horde. The reason I say this is because the Saurfang is for one, old. He participated in the War of the Shifting Sands which is a testament to his age. Thrall himself, when deciding upon who shall reign as the next Warcheif, clearly considered (and possibly paid respect to) Dranosh, Saurfang's very own son. However, the position ultimately gave way to Garrosh. This indicated that not only Thrall aims to have a younger orc as a leader, but as well as Blizzard, seeing that the candidates for the position were pretty young in years. Besides, I think it's time that they passed on the mantle of responsibility to the younger generations. That being said, I take back what I said. Nazgrel probably wouldn't be Warchief after all. But I do hope they expand his role, as well as all the other characters in Outland, including Khadgar and the Alliance's Danath Trollbane. They seem so lonely there just sitting on a forgotten rock for two expansions already. Maybe they'll do something with the Narru?

Now that Nazgrel is out, I'd like to nominate Zaela, the current warchief of the Dragonmaw Clan.

 

[Wolfe]

I doubt it. The Dragonmaws, like the Frostwolves, are isolated on the other side of the world. They need a strong candidate to keep them from being exterminated. Besides, I think a lot of orcs would have trouble accepting a former enemy as a warchief (though a female warchief would certainly put a spin on things).

 

[Razosh]

I still think that Vol'Jin will be the Warchief even though the orcs might not approve of that the tauren and the trolls would be overjoyed and Vol'Jin is no bad warrior either. And the closest orc to the throne is still in my opinon Saurfang since he is the only one who have appeared to do anything these past 4 years.

 

[Wolfe]

The orcs have to approve of the new leader. They are the majority part of the Horde, and have been given a new sense of confidence and pride in themselves as a race and a competitor for land in Kalimdor with Garrosh's reign. Also, as a warrior-like people, they need a warrior. Vol'jin is a witch doctor, not a warrior, who would struggle immensely to keep his people protected and the orcs sated. As for Baine... well, the tauren are a peaceful people - would 'warchief' really fit one?

 

[Razosh]

So first of all you say that Cairne would not have been a bad @$$ Warchief and secondly considering how the Horde usully chooses a WarChief I wouldn't say that he orcs have much say in the matter. Thirdly if orcs were such a vast majority of the Horde I don't think that Vol'Jin, Baine, Sylvanas and Lor'Themar Theron would be charging into battle against them.

 

[Arcisal]

Firstly, the Siege of Orgrimmar doesn't mean they're going to war with the entire orcish race. I'm assuming Blizzard would put up something like an official deceleration of war by Garrosh against the other races of the Horde making it a special event where you push him back to some part of Orgrimmar and where it finally turns into a raid and you beat the living shit out of him. Besieging the whole of Orgrimmar is just stupid. That being said, I'm also assuming only Garrosh's loyalists would be the enemy. Imagine the uproar caused by mostly orcish and probably many other non-orcish players at the direction of the lore. It would be the cataclysm if Blizzard decides to exterminate an entire race.

And about you and the orcs saying they have no say in matter when it comes to selecting a Warchief, I think that's completely wrong. In fact, it's the polar opposite of what I think. I think the orcs have all the rights to select who would be the next Warchief. You didn't see Sylvannas or even Cairne deciding or voting who to become Warchief when Thrall left, now did you? You only heard them complain and moan, even threaten Garrosh. However, they took no part whatsoever in the election. It was Thrall's sole decision, in the favor of the orcish people of course.

 

[Razosh]

No ofcourse the entire orc race will not side with Garrosh but most of them would I mean just look at the race now, if you would ask how many would side with Garrosh I can ensure you that most of them would side with Garrosh even though he've done some bad stuff in the past.

And yes it's true that Thrall gave Garrosh the title because he was the son of Grommash Hellscream but we all saw how that turned out and I think that Vol'Jin would rather make the orcs pissed, choose a god leader and make the other 6 races happy rather then make the orcs happy, choose someone that might end up ruining the horde even more and make 6 races pissed of. And the real question is will the orcs still be the majority of the Horde after this battle?

 

[Wolfe]

So first of all you say that Cairne would not have been a bad @$$ Warchief and secondly considering how the Horde usully chooses a WarChief I wouldn't say that he orcs have much say in the matter. Thirdly if orcs were such a vast majority of the Horde I don't think that Vol'Jin, Baine, Sylvanas and Lor'Themar Theron would be charging into battle against them.

I never said that. I stated that a tauren could not possibly fit the title 'WARchief' considering it is a) an orcish title and b) the tauren are a diplomatic people. And consider this - if the orcs were not a majority, why would Thrall choose the son of one of the Horde's greatest known heroes instead of someone older, wiser and with greater experience such as Vol'jin or Saurfang?

Onto the argument about the fight. Since the battle between Garrosh and Thrall, there has been a building conflict within the Horde. Many side with Thrall, solely because of how much he has done for his people and how much they believe he will do and others (those more inclined to battle, with greater pride in the orcish race as a whole) sided with Garrosh. When Garrosh killed Cairne, the two factions began to solidify. Xenophobes, veterans of the First and Second Wars, nationlistic orcs, etc. are all loyal to Garrosh, believing him to be right in his quest for dominance. Blizzard would not wipe out a whole playable race because of one story arc.

 

[Razosh]

I stated in the litle message above yours that the whole race was not going to be wiped out but rather damaged.

And I absolutly love this battle as long as it ends with Vol'Jin shooting an arrow through Garrosh black heart.

 

[Arcisal]

And yes it's true that Thrall gave Garrosh the title because he was the son of Grommash Hellscream but we all saw how that turned out and I think that Vol'Jin would rather make the orcs pissed, choose a god leader and make the other 6 races happy rather then make the orcs happy, choose someone that might end up ruining the horde even more and make 6 races pissed of. And the real question is will the orcs still be the majority of the Horde after this battle?

One bad apple doesn't mean that the whole basket it terrible. Remember, Garrosh did not experience or know what Thrall did for his people (eg. Free them from the interment camps) since he was in Draenor until TBC. When he became Warcheif, he was just like any other orc after learning of his people's enslavement by the humans, enraged. However, that was long gone and the difference between he and Thrall is that Thrall learnt to control his anger and put it aside for the greater good of the Horde. And who says there aren't any good orcs? I'm pretty sure you hadn't heard of Saurfang until the release of WoW, so I think that Blizzard might come up with someone to fit the position of Warchief or just use an old character. I'm still highly doubtful Saurfang will take the throne as well.

Consider this, would Vol'jin want the role of Warchief? I think not. As I mentioned before, he's too old. And secondly, he's got an entire thriving race to run. Not only are the Darkspears currently the most populated trolls tribe around, but Vol'jin is shown to be very troll-aligned person, no matter how loyal he is to the Horde or Thrall. If given the choice to save the orcs or his trolls, I would say he's grounding for his own people. Same thing with Baine. Sylvannas is somewhat similar, Forsaken first Horde second thing, but uses the Horde as a method of protection.

And imagine your country being run by a foreigner. You would immediately realize the political and racial stupidity of it.

Xenophobes, veterans of the First and Second Wars, nationlistic orcs, etc. are all loyal to Garrosh, believing him to be right in his quest for dominance.

Just a small peeve, I disagree on that. Maybe xenophobes but veterans and nationalists, unless to the zealous point of fanaticism, are probably not part of Garrosh's loyalists (Probably under the list would be, including the first two mentioned, brown untainted orcs who lived with him on Draenor and racist or alien-hating orcs.) I don't think veterans fit the position. Veterans have seen Thrall's selfless deeds and sacrifices for the Horde as a whole and most probably heard of his diplomatic relations with the humans. Overtime, this hatred once harbored in them, coupled with Thralls acts of kindness would probably change them and their mindset. This lot includes Horde loyalist who would probably agree that no war is better than a war since their allegiance is to the Horde as a whole and not to themselves.

 

[Wolfe]

Hm, true. I still believe that the orcs following Garrosh would be anti-Thrall, anti-Horde and most likely fought in one or both of the wars. I justify this with Thrall's justification behind giving the job to a HELLSCREAM. Not only in Grom well-known and revered, but he epitomized the Orcish struggle. The bloodlust, trying to overcome it, the warrior spirit, etc. blah blah all that racial crap. A lot of orcs who were still around to know or hear of him would akin such qualities to Grom's very like-minded son, which would probably drive orcs to follow Garrosh. But then again I'm just going on about random stuff.

Who knows. Maybe Thrall might come back? Or, (veeeeeeery unlikely), we see Thrall's child take it as a child warchief or as an adult. As I mentioned before this is very unlikely as at this point the child isn't even out of the womb yet lol.

My position still stands: the position of Warchief would never go to a tauren or a troll. Orgrimmar is the ORC Capital and the Warchief is an ORC title. It must stay with the orcs because they are the majority force in Kalimdor and the one sizeable ally the Darkspears and Bloodhoofs have. This new leader would also have to represent a middle-ground between Thrall and Garrosh. Going from diplomacy and spiritual identity to complete conquest and full-on warmongering and then back to the other extreme would certainly confuse an already otherwise destabilized people.

 

[Razosh]

Ok so this is actully the third time in a row I say this so please try to read, I don't assume that all orcs are evil I assume that most orcs would side with Garrosh and even if a person sides with a evil leader dosen't make the servant evil just missguided. Consider this, would you say that Anakin Skywalker is as evil as Darth Sidius just because Anakin served him?

And yes I know Vol'jin is old, alligned to his own race and yes he is not an orc but I didn't see that stopping Cairne from beating Garrosh @$$ and trying to claim the title as WarChief.

Also having a troll as leader of the Horde is not a to bad idea actully and I have no doubt that Vol'jin would let the orcs have their own leader what I'm trying to say is that he will lead the Horde since they need someone who is a capeble leader.

"Dere be no question why, Garrosh. He gave ya tha title because ya be Grom's Son and because tha people be wantin' a war hero."
This is what Vol'jin says and if he storms Orgrimmar kills the old WarChief and unity the Horde under one banner again he would witheout question be a war hero not to mention that he is the son of Sen'jin who saved the entire race of the orcs. (Or atleast the ones that are in the Horde.)

 

[Wolfe]

There has been no speculation that Garrosh is at all evil. He just has an aggressive nature and leans more towards war and the orcs, which as a leader of multiple races who have seen too much war and want peace and stability isn't the best thing.

Cairne actually challenged Garrosh because he felt that Garrosh was an inadequate leader whose ways were geared more towards war and taking more territory through conquest. Vol'jin would have done the same if he were not so old, but as a witch doctor he is more cunning. Though, if you can prove to me that Cairne's intentions were to claim the seat of Warchief for himself, then I'll accept your point.

 

[Arcisal]

Ok so this is actully the third time in a row I say this so please try to read, I don't assume that all orcs are evil I assume that most orcs would side with Garrosh and even if a person sides with a evil leader dosen't make the servant evil just missguided.

You clearly seem to be implying so. As I've said before, the orcs can have capably younglings, like Drannosh before he was killed and raised in undeath. You sound like the orcs have no one else left in their ranks, other than Thrall to lead the Horde. And that first sentence looks like it's trying to imply we're stupid. Just sayin'.

Also having a troll as leader of the Horde is not a to bad idea actully and I have no doubt that Vol'jin would let the orcs have their own leader what I'm trying to say is that he will lead the Horde since they need someone who is a capeble leader.

That would be absolutely retarded and unnessary. Not only is it politically stupid to have an alien to lead your people, but the Horde traditionally was lead by orcs from Blackhand to Garrosh. I don't see anyone complaining to Thrall or calling him a racist when he only selected orc candidates to lead the Horde.

"Dere be no question why, Garrosh. He gave ya tha title because ya be Grom's Son and because tha people be wantin' a war hero."

This quote clearly states the justification of Thrall selecting Garrosh over any other orc to take the mantle of Warchief.

This is what Vol'jin says and if he storms Orgrimmar kills the old WarChief and unity the Horde under one banner again he would witheout question be a war hero not to mention that he is the son of Sen'jin who saved the entire race of the orcs.

It's not about whether doing this or that would make you a hero or not. It's about the orcs, who are the majority of the Horde's populace, wanting a familiar hero, which is the reason why Saurfang is many people's guesses. Vol'jin doesn't need to prove he's a war hero. Much of them already know. It's just that, he's not an orc. And another thing, he's got Darkspears to lead remember? Plus, he did not save the entire race of orcs. He only saved the orcs that survived the Second War whom the Alliance imprisoned into interment camps and fled across the Great Sea, hence why they met the trolls when they were thrown off course by the Maelstrom. Facts, mate.

And think logically. If Vol'jin were to lead the orcs and the trolls at the same time, where the bloody hell would be in WoW? And if that were so, there would only be four Horde leaders, not five unlike the Alliance, making it harder and more imbalanced for some prized achievements which would almost immediately cause an outcry by Horde players. Blizzard is on the verge of abandonment by lore junkies. If they make gameplay imbalanced for Hordies, then that's a lot of players unsubscribing.

My position still stands: the position of Warchief would never go to a tauren or a troll. Orgrimmar is the ORC Capital and the Warchief is an ORC title.

Absolutely Agreed. The only thing were still unclear about is who.

 

[Razosh]

It feels like we're just going back and forth here while I say that the WarChief is the leader of the Horde you say that he's just the leader of the orcs so this argument is not going to be settled.

 

[Arcisal]

It feels like we're just going back and forth here while I say that the WarChief is the leader of the Horde you say that he's just the leader of the orcs so this argument is not going to be settled.

Wolfe is saying that the title Warchief is an orcish title that was implemented into the Horde. Hence, it should be adopted by an orc. Make sense? The reason why he's saying that is because you're saying that Vol'jin, a troll, should Warchief, which he describes as originally an orcish position and title for the whole Horde. Hence, the debate of whether and orc (Wolfe and I) or a non-orc (You) should take over Garrosh's place as Warchief after the Siege of Orgrimmar.

Got that drilled into your skull?

 

[Razosh]

If you scroll back you'll see that I also said that the orcs should have their own leader but I said that Vol'Jin should be in charge of the Horde.

 

[Da Troll]

Thrall will probably come back or a great civil war will occur and Sylvanas will try to break free of the Horde's influence now that she has the Val'kyrs and that would be the begining of the end. Which would probably cause a simmilar situation like the alternative timeline with Aedalas Blackmoore

 

[_PV]

Or... Gamon for warchief? eh? xD JUST SAIYEN

 

[Razosh]

Thrall will probably come back or a great civil war will occur and Sylvanas will try to break free of the Horde's influence now that she has the Val'kyrs and that would be the begining of the end. Which would probably cause a simmilar situation like the alternative timeline with Aedalas Blackmoore

Thrall has said that he has choosen to stick with the Earthen Ring and he left the horde in their hour of need and no matter what reason he did it for he can't just step in and say I'm taking back the throne. Trust me Sylvanas will not try to brake free from the Horde and take Azeroth for her self because it's not that easy she'd get her @$$ beaten since she already need her full army to fend of the alliance.

But back to the siege of Orgrimmar, as you may know the blue dragonflight has allied themselves to the horde or the alliance (depending on which faction you play) and I for one hope that Kalecgos and Terecgosa will come in and assist us against Garrosh.

 

[takakenji]

thrall was one of the horde's best military leaders and expanded its power to much greater lengths than in thralls rule, weather you peace hippies can believe it or not

 

[Razosh]

Ask this question, does Thrall wants to be the WarChief? Thralls greatest desire was to put down all the conflict and start a family.

 

[Arcisal]

If you scroll back you'll see that I also said that the orcs should have their own leader but I said that Vol'Jin should be in charge of the Horde.

The orc's own leader is the leader of the Horde, much like the human's racial leader (Varian) is the leader of the whole Alliance. In the same way, Thrall was leader of the orcs and the entire Horde before he left his position. It has traditionally always been that way and probably won't deter even a millimeter from that tradition.

Trust me Sylvanas will not try to brake free from the Horde and take Azeroth for her self because it's not that easy she'd get her @$$ beaten since she already need her full army to fend of the alliance.

If you've read the short story, the Edge of Night, it is seen that Sylvanas *spoiler alert* is bound to the Val'krys that she created since she *bigger spoiler alert* tried to kill herself.*big spoiler alert ended* So if the Val'kyr dies, she dies. So thus, I agree she won't take up arms against the Horde, but not because of manpower, but because of the fear of death via the death of the Val'kyrs themselves. I'm pretty sure she could take on the Horde with the Forsaken. It's like the Scourge taking on the Alliance. That went pretty well. Look at Angrathar. Putress pretty much killed most of the combined forces and Scourge with just the plague they were developing.

And another thing that I disagree with you. She probably isn't as stupid as to, if she does manage to conquer the Horde, take on the whole of Azeroth by herself. That's just retarded. Although the Alliance would perceive her as a growing threat, they as well won't rush into matters, with the Cataclysm just passing by and the Horde-Alliance war escalating on Pandaria. One person that would stand up to her probably be Thrall. No explanation needed.

But back to the siege of Orgrimmar, as you may know the blue dragonflight has allied themselves to the horde or the alliance (depending on which faction you play) and I for one hope that Kalecgos and Terecgosa will come in and assist us against Garrosh.

Dragons have larger matters to attend to, such as fending off Azeroth from outworldly threats like the possibility of demon activity. If they could spare some time to help with the fight against Garrosh, don't you think they would've helped with the fight against the Lich King? And, in case you didn't know, all dragonflights are supposed to be neutral, acting for the greater good of Azeroth and not meddling with the affairs of mortals unless a greater stake is at hand, such as the Cataclysm.

Thrall will probably come back or a great civil war will occur and Sylvanas will try to break free of the Horde's influence now that she has the Val'kyrs and that would be the begining of the end. Which would probably cause a simmilar situation like the alternative timeline with Aedalas Blackmoore

Again, I disagree. I've explained that she is bound to the Val'kyrs so she can't risk them dying otherwise she would meet her fate as well. And Thrall has already gained the sort of Mal'furion Stormrage kind of position, except instead of druids its shamans. He's the ultimate shaman and thus has to remain neutral. Bummer right?

 

[Razosh]

Yes I know that the dragons are not supposed to take sides but it would be pretty awesome if Kalecgos came in.

 

[Da Troll]

About a non-orc Warchief read trough till speculations .click

 

[Bernkastel]

I do not see why everyone have such a grudge on Garrosh. In times like these, Garrosh is a better warchief for the Horde. He was leading the Horde when they marched against the Lich King, he attended the attack to Twilight Highlands to destroy Cho'gall and the Twilight's Hammer.
In the Cataclysm it was a warrior that the Horde was in need of. Garrosh fought with his people instead of sitting idle in Orgrimmar.

But nevertheless, I believe that either nobody will take the title and it will be waiting for Thrall's child if this person is even wishing to take the task, as for the achivement, there would most likely be someone such as Saurfang being the temporary leader as Bolvar was before Varian returned.

And let's see, there was talk that N'zoth is inactive. He suffered many losses in the Siege of Wyrmrest, his plan was destroyed with an unexpected counter which is the Dragon Soul, now as he must gather new armies and gain a new tool what he may use to conquer Azeroth as the only remaining forces he has are Azshara's naga and his faceless minions.

Another thing that I have thought about is where is Murozond because he's still alive and out there somwhere?

Murozond was stopped for now, but Nozdormu stated that he will eventually once again become Murozond and will attempt to stop Thrall before he gets his hands on the Dragon Soul preventing Deathwing's defeat.
Murozond will return, but we do not know when.

 

[Razosh]

The title WarChief was just an example I said that Vol'jin should be leader of the Horde I don't care who leads the orcish horde but I doubt that Vol'jin will give the title of leader of the horde to anyone he would not trust his life with and the only orc Vol'jin has trusted that much is Thrall. The point is that the horde can't win the war against the alliance if the horde is split up in 3 groups. But as I've said before if any orc should take up the title WarChief it should be Saurfang.

And let's see, there was talk that N'zoth is inactive. He suffered many losses in the Siege of Wyrmrest, his plan was destroyed with an unexpected counter which is the Dragon Soul, now as he must gather new armies and gain a new tool what he may use to conquer Azeroth as the only remaining forces he has are Azshara's naga and his faceless minions.

So that should stop N'Zoth from reviving C'thun and Yogg-Saron and you might not have thought of this but now is a golden oppertunety for N'Zoth to strike a blow since the aspects have lost their powers and every mortal race is fighting wars.

 

[Bernkastel]

Yet, N'zoth lost a very powerful weapon, Deathwing.

 

[Razosh]

Still he has servants every were not to mention the remaining troops of C'Thun and Yogg-Saron and I don't doubt they would both lend their aid to N'Zoth if it would bring them back their bodies.

 

[Arcisal]

The title WarChief was just an example I said that Vol'jin should be leader of the Horde I don't care who leads the orcish horde but I doubt that Vol'jin will give the title of leader of the horde to anyone he would not trust his life with and the only orc Vol'jin has trusted that much is Thrall. The point is that the horde can't win the war against the alliance if the horde is split up in 3 groups. But as I've said before if any orc should take up the title WarChief it should be Saurfang.

Sure, like Vol'jin has all the say in this.

And as for N'Zath, he'll be back. Blizzard still hasn't expanded on the Emerald Nightmare arc and, even though still young, they might touch on that a bit.

 

[Razosh]

Vol'jin will have all say in this once he has pierced the warchiefs black heart and united the horde to fight as one again, and that has not happened since WotLK.

And I doubt we'll see the Emerald Dreams since we've suggested it since the begining of WoW and we've still failed to see anything. Also as you might know Mists of Pandaria will be the last expansion of the game.

 

[Wolfe]

You are wrong, actually. You seem to think that Vol'jin is the main instigator of this raid and that he will be the one to kill Garrosh. Highly unlikely, because if so, he would've killed Garrosh already.

As this concerns the entirety of the HORDE, Vol'jin is only part of the decision. He represents the troll portion of the Horde, not the whole faction. Baine, Sylvanas, Lor'Themar, Prince goblinwhatever, Saurfang and most likely Drek'thar (being a representative of the Frostwolves and the orcs in the EK) all will play their part in deciding who the new leader will be.

And where is your source claiming MoP as the last expansion? umad? Blizzard has stated that expansions will go until the level cap reaches 100. Also, leaving their greatest cash cow so willingly? Yeah, no.

 

[Bernkastel]

Now that's something i have not heard.
And yet they said when they were making Cataclysm that they only add 5 more levels because they want to make more expansions before level 100 is reached.

And why would Emerald Dream not come? N'zoth is active right now and he is responsible for Emerald Nightmare.