[Tower Defense] Random Walk TD

[Ardenian]

I am glad that I could help you

I am not sure whether it was in this replay, but my team encountered a bug where the upkeep of the fortress builder was not given to the owner, but to another player ( I am sure it was in the infinite replay I sent you).

 

[rulerofiron99]

Yes, I noticed that. But I'm not sure if I want to change it or not.

Your income is shared, so for the sake of consistency your upkeep is also shared, as upkeep is just negative income.

I think I'll change it when I add a gold sharing mechanic. You've probably noticed that regular gold giving is disabled. This is done because it would be very OP (and lame) for one or two players to just go pure income and let the other players build all the towers. I'm planning a give mechanic where you're limited to giving X amount of gold to another player per round.

 

[Ardenian]

That sounds good, I think it is a good idea. So one player could focus on income while the other is building towers and such.

 

[rulerofiron99]

Update 0.38

Changelog

- The first wave can no longer be a flying wave.
- Increased initial setup time to 2 minutes
- Fixed some more bugs with the end cinematic
- Soul Chiller now keeps the Soul Collection ability after upgrade
- Shadow Gold Mine now collects souls from any players' kills
- Changed the path generator to limit segment size instead of waiting for each segment to exit the map. This means the path is always generated quickly, and no paths will be exceedingly long, so games will generally be shorter.
- Added minimap icon for path nodes and changed the creep player to red.
- Increased player limit to 6
- Added a ready button and commands list to builders
- Game length can now be extended to infinite by vote during the game
- Fixed Fortress buffs not working on allies' towers
- Implemented SpellEvent (under the bonnet, no effect on gameplay)
- You can now add computer players in lobby, which can be controlled by other players.
- When a player leaves, all other players gain control of the leaving player as if it were a bot.
- Added the ability to give gold to another player, which has a transfer fee.

Expect bugs!

Next version will have a few more necessary under-the-bonnet changes, afterwards I'll be fixing the Fortress race.

 

[bhusta]

need changes
I hope I can test it as soon as possible!

 

[rulerofiron99]

Update 0.39
Nothing notable for the changelog, just trigger system changes.

 

[Ardenian]

I played v038 and there are a few issues:

• If a player leaves, then his stuff is shared, but the board which shows lifes and income disappears and a new one shows the team resources instead.
• Shared buildings don't show range ( range ability).
• There is an issue with the promotions of shared buildings. It sometimes says the player has not enough gold to upgrade it when he has, and sometimes I can upgrade promotions although the player has not enough gold.

Could you change the -n so it shows the next wave while the current one is spawning and could you make it visible to all players ? So if one player types in -n then all players see the next wave information, please ?

 

[rulerofiron99]

Scoreboard - Fixed

Range ability - Not sure if this is fixable with the current implementation without causing too much clutter. The range circle is only visible to the owner of the tower, which is still the leaving player. Showing it to all players would cause range circles for players that probably don't want to see them. I might add an ability for the builder that can target a tower to show its range.

Promotions - the current promotion system will most likely be scrapped, so I won't be fixing this until further progress with the race.

Next wave - I'll upgrade the scoreboard to include this information, the -n command will no longer be needed.

 

[rulerofiron99]

Update 0.40

Changelog

- Fixed scoreboard breaking when a player leaves
- The next wave now appears on the multiboard
- Path generator size adjusted, max map size now scales linearly with number of players. Single-player path is smaller (reduce the chance of getting a path without good features)
- Added repick ability
- Added tutorial cinematic
- Fixed new round starting after you've been defeated
- Replaced minimap path display

 

[bhusta]

I like the new visuals and the shorter paths.
I attached a replay where you can see what I meant with banished units using their abilities multiple time without a cooldown. There was only one wave of it and I did not find any other bug.

 

[rulerofiron99]

Fixed.

The problem was related to Auto Micro (as always!), after the "attacked unit" variable is changed, the related unit custom value variable was still set to the previous "attacked unit" value, so creeps were basically taking other creeps' cooldowns.

 

[InfernalTater]

Fixed.

The problem was related to Auto Micro (as always!), after the "attacked unit" variable is changed, the related unit custom value variable was still set to the previous "attacked unit" value, so creeps were basically taking other creeps' cooldowns.

That actually sounds like a pretty awesome system for something intentional in the future.

 

[hiphop4eva]

Your progress is quite impressive.

 

[rulerofiron99]

Update 0.41

Changelog

- Fixed an issue with creeps' ghost form.
- Path on minimap now displays path more accurately, and you will no longer see random pieces of blight on the map.
- You can now pre-skip the tutorial cinematic by pressing Esc at any time before it starts.
- Reworked Fortress race (credit to Kino)

New focus is on balance.

Currently, towers are balanced empirically (recording damage in a test wave), but this is both slow and not very useful for longer ranged towers.

Once I've made a good equation that can accurately tell me a tower's proper gold cost, adding new content will be much quicker.

 

[Kazeon]

Hmm, this is fun in single player, but gets more confusing as there are more players (I don't remember how many players does this support?).

Here is my suggestion. Since the creep's path is random, maybe at the beginning (before the first wave) give players times to observe the map first so they can arrange their strategies with friends. But of course players aren't allowed to build towers within the period. Then they may start the first wave by typing "start" or something when ready (up to you).

Good luck with the project btw.

 

[rulerofiron99]

It currently supports 6, and I'll raise this soon.

Yes, I realise it can be a little overwhelming, even with the arrows on the floor.

Thanks for your suggestion, it gives me another idea that would be useful: during preparation time, some "example" creeps (invulnerable ghosts) move along the path to indicate where they go.

 

[Ardenian]

Hm, I think there is some unbalance at the moment, if more players join.

Example: four players are playing, all four races are chosen -> no problem

Second Example: six players are playing, four players don't listen at all and go city -> leaks for air waves and usually for boss, too

Of course, this is highly dependent on player experience and whether the team mates are listening to what others say. But, more players increase the difficulty and with a certain combination, it becomes impossible to survive, especially for air and boss waves.
I am not sure, but in the future there could be a tendency that teams only go with four players, no matter how many slots can be filled, as more players make it even for 'pros' hard to not to leak, even with team play and speaking with the other players.

 

[rulerofiron99]

The difficulty scaling based on player count is currently a little arbitrary; your feedback is probably the best data I have to work with at the moment!

I'll reduce the player factor a bit.

Reasoning for the scaling: With more players, it's to easy to simply all build together at the goal. Scaling expects players to do this, and makes creeps tougher to account for this.

Another thing I will work on to improve this is wave timing. The location where paths join is random, so you have anything from all creeps reach the goal at the same time to creeps all come with gaps between. I'll adjust the path join locations to make this more consistent - specifically, I plan to have creeps not arrive at the goal simultaneously (the alternative would make splash damage overpowered).

Please provide any and all feedback when you play multiplayer:
- Difficulty
- Number of players
- How far you got
- Strategy used
etc
Much appreciated.

balancing progress

 

[Ardenian]

Sounds very enjoyable!

Another thing that came to my mind, for some reason there is often a swarm wave as initial wave ( are they random ?, sometimes I have a feeling as if they aren't, but stay the same every game), which makes it hard for especially new players as they might not be aware of the necessity to build splash or immolation buildings.
This should be fine when experienced players make them aware of the swarm wave and they see the next wave tooltip, but, as Quilnez already said, some time to explore could be a good addition.

A, something else, I am not sure about this, but, what do you think about an in-game remake option ? There are pro's and con's, but it could be a good idea to give players the option to vote for a remake.

 

[rulerofiron99]

Another thing that came to my mind, for some reason there is often a swarm wave as initial wave ( are they random ?, sometimes I have a feeling as if they aren't, but stay the same every game), which makes it hard for especially new players as they might not be aware of the necessity to build splash or immolation buildings.
This should be fine when experienced players make them aware of the swarm wave and they see the next wave tooltip, but, as Quilnez already said, some time to explore could be a good addition.

They are random, first wave has 3 variations:
Chicken (normal)
Rabbit (swarm)
Dog (fast)

What I'll do is make the first wave take no lives and provide no bounty, so that it's a test wave to show you how the game works.

A, something else, I am not sure about this, but, what do you think about an in-game remake option ? There are pro's and con's, but it could be a good idea to give players the option to vote for a remake.

Brilliant idea, can't believe I haven't thought of this before.

Should the path also be re-rolled? I'm leaning no, it might take too long and minmax players such as myself would keep rerolling until happy with the map lol.

 

[Ardenian]

Brilliant idea, can't believe I haven't thought of this before.

Should the path also be re-rolled? I'm leaning no, it might take too long and minmax players such as myself would keep rerolling until happy with the map lol.

Hm, I myself am not sure. Re-rolling means adding another random factor, whereas not re-rolling means that the same path stays, no matter whether the path is great or totally dumb.

For the solution of this, I could either imagine a vote, players can vote for a remake on the same path or for a completely new path.
To prevent the re-rolling until one is happy, maybe add the requirement that the current round has to be ended, the team is defeated. It is not a 100% save, tho, as players could simply wait until some rounds passed and then remake. It could also lead to conflicts if some players want to play on a certain path, but others disagree, ruining gameplay for both sites.

 

[rulerofiron99]

For now I'll just make it a simple same-terrain reroll triggered by unanimous vote, only available before wave 5 and after defeat (players might sometimes "gg" when they think they've lost but actually end up surviving).

Rerolling the terrain requires some more work on the terrain generator that isn't priority at the moment.

 

[Arad MNK]

Nice Map! Seems Promising.

 

[bhusta]

I think the fortress bunker has an ability which it shouldn't have

 

[rulerofiron99]

I've changed the path generator to join players' paths at more consistent locations:

Example

As you can see, blue goes to the goal, teal joins halfway into blue, purple joins halfway into teal, yellow joins halfway into purple, etc.

This will make the game much easier in multiplayer, as it is unlikely that all of the spawns will reach the goal at the same time.

The downside of this is that the longest path is longer, which means games will be longer.

I might try:
blue goes to path
teal and purple join blue
yellow and orange join teal
green (and pink, when added) join orange

EDIT: It was easier than expected.

Examples of new method

I think the fortress bunker has an ability which it shouldn't have

Hehe, there have been a few of those gems with the different map versions I've been going between (the souls coming out of creeps received the barrage ability, lol)

EDIT2:
Update 0.42

changelog

- New Fortress tower: Mercenary
- Small adjustment to path difficulty calculation
- Level 0 creeps don't take lives and provide no bounty
- Added option to remake game
- Added "undo" feature for selling a tower - if you sell a tower within 5 seconds of building it, you get 100% refund
- Voting for extended game fixed to be possible even with leavers or bots
- Fixed some graphics bugs
- Difficulty (initial and scaling) calculation based on number of players rebalanced, should be easier for larger groups at low difficulties.
- Changed path generator to join players' paths at more consistent locations.
- New ability for City House: Mortgage

 

[Ardenian]

Great job!

I think 5 seconds are a very close time intervall.
Example: A olayer builds a Gate not on a street ( I don't know whether it still attacks), I need around four seconds to tell the player how to build it and then the undo intervall is over.

I think it might be a good idea to either extend it a bit or, this is a solution I favour, add a system that checks whether the tower already had an effect on creeps or other towers. Much more complicated, but the combination of both could be an interesting solution.

Something else that came to my mind, what about a command to allow players to end a round ? Especially for single player this could be a great addition, for multi player am not sure, voting for it probably takes more time than the creep needs to finish the path ( same for 'ready' command, by the way, for some reason most playere do not use it, but waiting until the timer is expired).

 

[rulerofiron99]

I think it might be a good idea to either extend it a bit or, this is a solution I favour, add a system that checks whether the tower already had an effect on creeps or other towers. Much more complicated, but the combination of both could be an interesting solution.

Excellent idea.
- 30 seconds or ability cast/attack made, whichever comes first

Thanks for mentioning the gate, that's actually something I forgot to add (when placing a gate it should check terrain type)

Something else that came to my mind, what about a command to allow players to end a round ? Especially for single player this could be a great addition, for multi player am not sure, voting for it probably takes more time than the creep needs to finish the path ( same for 'ready' command, by the way, for some reason most playere do not use it, but waiting until the timer is expired).

I've been thinking about this for a while, I just haven't decided on the implementation.

One option I considered was to have the creeps "fast forward" (move at double speed) while not being damaged. I'll probably give this method a shot.

For unreadying players, I'll add the following:
- column on the multiboard to indicate which players are ready
- when a player doesn't have gold to build anything, they ready-up automatically
- every ready-up after the 2nd/3rd one will reduce the timer by a few seconds

Anyway, I'm eager to hear your thoughts on the new difficulty!

EDIT:
Of course any new feature needs to have some hilarious bugs during creation.

(Please excuse the unnecessary black borders, only noticed after uploading)

 

[Ardenian]

Hm, to be honest, I personally don't like the method as shown in the video, as the creeps movement offer a great possibility for glitches.

I could think of removing the 'Fast Forward' if a creep ( the first creep) comes in a certain range of a player's building.

Example: The creeps stop 'Fast Forward' before they come in attack range of the tower in the video.

By the way, does this work for multi player, too ? Do all creeps move faster then ?

 

[rulerofiron99]

The glitched movement is a bug, which has been fixed.

It will work for multiplayer yes, but all creeps share the same cooldown and fast forward. All creeps must be untouched for 5 seconds and then all creeps engage fast forward, and all creeps stop fast forward if any creep is attacked.

EDIT: The margin of error between a fast forward creep entering a tower's range and being attacked is unnoticeable, maybe a distance of about 100 (which is insignificant). The new implementation is smooth and follows the path perfectly.

I'll make it an optional thing.

With the new staggered path method, though, it will be rare for creeps to go unattacked long enough to fast forward.

 

[Ardenian]

Ah alright, then never mind.

When can we expect new builders, like the hero builder ? I am very excited for it.

 

[rulerofiron99]

I first want to make the excel formula for tower balancing before adding any new towers. No progress on that since the last graph I posted, unfortunately. Requires a lot of thought and my full concentration.

Next builder will probably be Dwarf, as I haven't figure out exactly how I want make the hero race.

Dwarf builder focus:
- Bit of micro needed, but not as much as Fortress
- Artillery with mapwide range and supporting towers
- Generic gold mine as with goblin

Vague idea of how hero builder will work:
- 5 or so of the towers are heroes that gain experience from nearby kills
- 2 of the towers are shops that can sell items to heroes
- 2 of the towers are shops that can sell abilities to heroes

Alternative:
- First tower is a tavern that can train heroes
- 20 or so heroes available, can only have one of each
- Rest of the towers support heroes, e.g. shops or fountains
- Heroes can maybe move around

 

[Ardenian]

Sounds very promising and unique.
Do you already have plans on how many builders are going to be available in the final version ?

 

[rulerofiron99]

No specific limit planned, I'll just kinda stop when I get bored of the project. I just want to get it in a good state before that happens so that I can hand it over to another mapper for caretaking and further updates.

Other races I have planned:
Nature - Buildings "grow" from each other, inspired by Sprout TD.
Spellcasters - No attacks, each tower has a powerful spell that must be manually cast. Some towers can auto-cast the spells for you.
Chaos/Fusion - Builder has the option of building 4 types of portals, you build several portals close together within a few seconds and a different tower is generated based on the combination.
Element/Gem - Inspired by Gemcraft TD (the flash/steam game), towers are empty slots for you to place gems in, you can combine gems to make more powerful ones etc.
Various themed races

 

[Ardenian]

That sounds very interesting, I hope you do not get bored of this projects soon.

If I am allowed to make a suggestion, what do you think about a builder that build like in Power Towers ?
If you don't know the TD, it is a TD where you build towers and they have to be supplied with energy (=mana) generated from generators, so they have to be linked to the generator.

I am very excited for new versions.
If I could suggest something: MakeMeHost has a special feature for map creators to allow them to manage their maps themselves. They state they give priority to the upload, I am not sure what it means, but I suppose you can upload them immediately instead of waiting for a moderator to approve them.
What do you think about it ? It would make the testing and playing much more easier because, as I said before, before a version is approved you already released a new one meaning the old version is kind of outdated.

 

[rulerofiron99]

To be honest it's amazing that I've come so far with this map without abandoning it like many of my other maps

You are of course allowed to make suggestions, I very much desire them.

I have played Power Towers before (and even made a similar custom map where players are power utilities that provide mana to houses), and that's definitely a good idea that I'll include.

I'll do the MMH thing, a few more clicks every time I upload a new version is no problem

 

[Ardenian]

I'll do the MMH thing, a few more clicks every time I upload a new version is no problem

Thank you! I don't know whether they react to this feature, I experienced some inactivity of them, but I am not experienced with the feature I suggested, so I don't know. I am going to ask Heaven Editor, I suggested him the same.

To be honest it's amazing that I've come so far with this map without abandoning it like many of my other maps

Well, isn't this map unique ? I ( and many others) would be very disappointed if you abandon this project, that's for sure

Hm, I would have these ideas, well, just some inspiration:

Basics	Maps with similar concepts/ Inspiration
Towers have to be supplied with energy/mana generated by generators	Power Towers
Instead of towers only barracks are built which train units that can move around the map	Direct TD; Legion TD
Elemental Builder: Different building techs, depending on elements. These different elemental towers interfere each other and are influenced by buffs and such ( maybe also towers from other builders) Example: A unit with a frost buff takes less damage from fire-based towers	None as far as I know, maybe Elemental TD, to a certain extend
Bandits: A builder that can build majorly support towers that are strong against a certain kind, like air or boss, but are weak against mass or normal units.	-
'Buff' builder: A builder that has hardly attack towers, but is focused on supporting towers of other players with buffs and auras.	-
Well, I don't know how to call this builder, but it is basically a builder that build only one tower, but this tower can use a lot of upgrades and the player can buy new weapons and such	Unknown TD ( it is called this way)
The Builder can build only place holder towers and the player has to buy manually weapons for the towers via a workshop or smith	Paladin TD
Trap builder: A builder that can only build traps, having many different effects, but being not a major damage dealer	-
Swarm Builder: A builder that can build a lot of cheap towers, basically mass towers that become stronger with each tower build ( inspired by the Zerg)	StarCraft II

Well, I think it is important to focus on a few builders, as I could extend this list into hundreds of ideas.
This is just a table with ideas I would consider when making a TD, so I don't mind if you just ignore it

 

[hiphop4eva]

Thank you! I don't know whether they react to this feature, I experienced some inactivity of them, but I am not experienced with the feature I suggested, so I don't know. I am going to ask Heaven Editor, I suggested him the same.

Well, isn't this map unique ? I ( and many others) would be very disappointed if you abandon this project, that's for sure

Hm, I would have these ideas, well, just some inspiration:

Basics	Maps with similar concepts/ Inspiration
Towers have to be supplied with energy/mana generated by generators	Power Towers
Instead of towers only barracks are built which train units that can move around the map	Direct TD; Legion TD
Elemental Builder: Different building techs, depending on elements. These different elemental towers interfere each other and are influenced by buffs and such ( maybe also towers from other builders) Example: A unit with a frost buff takes less damage from fire-based towers	None as far as I know, maybe Elemental TD, to a certain extend
Bandits: A builder that can build majorly support towers that are strong against a certain kind, like air or boss, but are weak against mass or normal units.	-
'Buff' builder: A builder that has hardly attack towers, but is focused on supporting towers of other players with buffs and auras.	-
Well, I don't know how to call this builder, but it is basically a builder that build only one tower, but this tower can use a lot of upgrades and the player can buy new weapons and such	Unknown TD ( it is called this way)
The Builder can build only place holder towers and the player has to buy manually weapons for the towers via a workshop or smith	Paladin TD
Trap builder: A builder that can only build traps, having many different effects, but being not a major damage dealer	-
Swarm Builder: A builder that can build a lot of cheap towers, basically mass towers that become stronger with each tower build ( inspired by the Zerg)	StarCraft II

Well, I think it is important to focus on a few builders, as I could extend this list into hundreds of ideas.
This is just a table with ideas I would consider when making a TD, so I don't mind if you just ignore it

I hope there will be new races for every one of these in the future.

 

[jopi]

I really like the changes to the Fortress race!

Three things I have to mention are:

1. The Tactician's 'Order' ability is bugged. Not that it does not swap positions, but the targeted tower looses the 'Auto-Micro' icon.

2. The Berserker seems a bit less useful than the other Fortess towers. For some reason IMO it's much more efficient to save up a bit more money for a Yurt than to upgrade to a Berserker. Thus my bunkers end up as the Kodo-tower every time^^

3. When upgreading the Yurt to Tundra Yurt in the description the attack speed does not change but in it's Attack stats it's attack speed description turns green for some reason as if it has a buff.

 

[rulerofiron99]

@Ardenian
That's a mighty fine list you got there

I've just received my mapper's priority upload account on MMH, 0.42 is on there already. From now on I'll upload new versions on there as well as soon as I release a new update.

@jopi
1. It's got a casting time, worked last time I tried it. I'll have a look and probably change how it's triggered to make it a bit more obvious.

2. I'll have a look at the numbers again.

3. Thought I had fixed this. Meh.

 

[jopi]

ok, a little bit of visualisation, as I have the feeling you got me wrong on the Tactician

See the screenshots below.

 

[rulerofiron99]

Whoops, read through that too quickly.

 

[Daffa]

Well done! Good luck with this amazing project!

 

[Kino]

I've just received my mapper's priority upload account on MMH, 0.42 is on there already. From now on I'll upload new versions on there as well as soon as I release a new update.

Changelogs plox

 

[Ardenian]

I played v42 on MMH in a three players game and here are some things I would like to mention:

Hidden

1. Fortress Builder: If the player leaves, Citadel, Fortress Supply and some others don't cast their abilities, is this supposed to be ? ( do they require manual cast ?). I don't play much as Fortress, therefore I don't know, I am sorry.
PS: I remember reading that Fortress requires a lot of micro, then of course, it would be logical to make the abilities manual cast.

-> Could you add an information to the tooltips of abilities that require manual cast, please ?

2. Could you add an auto ready for left players, please ?

3. Could you add the opportunity to ready the initial timer ( to spawn first wave), please ?

4. In my opinion, 'Shadow' by the eye towers isn't very valuable. The idea is great, but I think it does not work out. Shadow is only created by Altar, isn't it ? Therefore, a creep with, let's say, 6 shadows is going to take 12 more damage, even massed eyes, that take away much space, considering the altars took a lot already, would hardly make a greater amount of damage, I would say.

5. Does Orb of Desolation's upgrade keep the double damage effect ? I would like to have a tooltip information about this

6. Is it possible to add a shadow buff tooltip to creeps under shadow ? Maybe also with levelling the tooltip based on how many shadows are affecting the creep ?

I hope these are useful suggestions and feedback.

 

[rulerofiron99]

1. Citadel is always manual cast. Supply should be autocast, I'll take a look.
Will improve the tooltips.
I also need to get around to adding an enable/disable autocast option for towers like the Chemical Merchant.

2. Good idea, will add.
For now, though, you can already click the ready button of a computer/left player.

3. You can already do this (has been possible as long as I can remember), if it's somehow not working for you please provide some exact details.

4. The shadow mechanic was originally planned to have a lot more ability interactions, so I'll definitely be adding more towers and abilities for this.

5. No. I'll make a note on the upgrade tooltip.

6. As mentioned in 4, the shadow mechanic needs some work. Probably a bit of a rework.

As always, a big thanks for the feedback!

Changelogs plox

Over on the previous page

 

[Ardenian]

AH, that's good to hear!

3. You can already do this (has been possible as long as I can remember), if it's somehow not working for you please provide some exact details.

Well, I pressed the Ready button of my builder while the initial timer was counting down, but I received no reaction. I had to wait until it expired.

 

[rulerofiron99]

Were you playing alone, with other players or with computer players?

 

[Ardenian]

I was playing with two other players, in multi player, hosted via MMH, no computer players.

 

[rulerofiron99]

Are you sure everyone clicked ready?

EDIT: WIP

Screenshot

New shadow model/texture, took me an hour of tinkering to discover the material in the mode I was using was set to "add alpha", so the black was completely invisible

 

[Ardenian]

Great job, looks good!

No, I think I was the only one who pressed Ready. I mean, nothing happened, if I recall right, no ' dadada is ready' message appeared.