PvP changes.

[Razosh]

According to Blizzard they want to remove or nerf the amount of resiliance and battle fatigue, link. Blizzard has also announced that they will be making cc abilities more unique. What do you think of these changes?

In my opinion these are both really good decisions since the reason I quit PvP was because I felt that gear doesn't make as much difference as it used to do. Going into a BG with full arena gear you wanted to feel like a bad@$$ and at this point that's just not the case. The other reason I don't do PvP is because it feels like classes individualism is robbed more and more by every expansion since Blizzard gets the overwhelming need to add more abilities to the game when they really don't need to. And even though some of those abilities ends up being really cool a lot of other abilities are just copies of abilities that other classes already have and ends up robbing the classes of their individualism.

 

[PurgeandFire]

I think they are making steps in the right direction, overall. The resilience removal and battle fatigue removal is okay, as long as PvE gear doesn't get an upper-hand (think back to WoTLK, and Cataclysm). It'll be interesting that the PvE geared people in PvP will no longer be glass cannons... I suppose they'll be iron fish?

I agree that the homogeny has ruined a lot of the fun in PvP. I think it was warranted in some cases (e.g. giving classes interrupts), but it is growing. There is one good thing that came out of it: more classes/combos are able to play on a competitive level.

One of the things that always bothered me was the number of cooldowns (especially, offensive ones), as well as the ability to stack them. I have to admit, it is fun, but it reduces arena matches to a tango of cooldown's until someone slips up and gets CC'd full--or the match can end within a matter of one CC. Overall, it is better than the mana-war fights in Cataclysm (think back to MLS vs. MLS), but I think they could tweak them down a bit. I preferred the steady damage gameplay (like in WOTLK), which had much fewer offensive CD's (there were still a lot of problems with WOTLK PvP, but it was one of the best experiences).

But I think the PvP experience has improved overall, and I trust that Blizz will keep it up in WoD.

 

[Chaosy]

I am glad they nerf resiliance...
PvP gear should have an advantage but there is NO CHANCE to do damage in a battleground in PvE gear atm. (even when you got much higher ilvl than the pvp gear)

 

[Razosh]

I'm still a little upset that they made tanks in BG's useless since they used to be so extremely vital previously in RBG's and now my blood DK is completly useless.

 

[Razosh]

A new PvP change is in (a minor one) that changes altarec valley in a pretty big way when it comes to big battles, anyone who has ever been in a large scaled battle in the Horde base will know what impact this will have since it will limit you to sneak up behind the enemy and take out their ranged players.

Change 1

Change 2

 

[gorillabull]

pvp need to be fast and bloody not this 70% damage reduction shit

 

[PurgeandFire]

I'm surprised they touched AV. I can't disagree with the change, but I have to admit I always liked those little crevices (especially in turtle games), and being able to jump the gate. It makes sense to remove it though, since the alliance side really doesn't have a way to sneak in like that (or well, they do, but the bridge is the real problem--getting to it is easy). I'm guessing Blizz is trying to fix AV because the alliance-horde win ratio is largely in favor of the alliance (as Horde, I was so happy when they added the blacklisting feature).

Although, I feel like there may be other more important issues contributing to the horde's AV losses than just the terrain. I don't think the change will make too much of a difference tbh. If they wanted to make a drastic change, then they would need to change the towers (ally can cap fairly easily with the LoS of the watch-tower, but horde can't do it as easily/quickly).

@gorillabull: At times, I agree. I usually like the start-mid expansion PvP, because there is usually a lot of burst potential and rapid matches. But I wouldn't want it to devolve to other games' PvP. One of the unique aspects of WoW PvP is its potential longevity. Most other games are quick death, quick rez games. While those usually make battlegrounds pretty fun, it takes a lot away from arena, and generally decreases the skill cap.

 

[Chaosy]

AV sucks **** I always ban it. It a no skill BG its never fair odds its always 2v1 or 6v2 etc. And in the big fights its the one with most ranged dpsers that wins. (for hunters just spec survival and spamm multishot to top damage)

and the thing is that without reci healers becomes useless pretty much, even with this high reci people get oneshoted in less than 10 seconds vs a double dps comp. (lets say ret pala + rogue which I used to play)
Rogue sap healer > focus the dps
if healer trinkets > instant blind (still full duration unless they changed it)
if healer doesnt trinket pop all cds and at the end of the sap use blind (which he will trinket) then just smoke bomb to prevent heals. Ret pala could also use his stun as a cc after that.

If they nerf reci on top of that we would be able to kill the dps in 6-7 seconds which is less than a sap.

 

[Razosh]

The problem with Altarec Valley is that the environment is to the Hordes disadvantage, I've for example never during the 150 AV matches I've played seen the Horde kill the mini-boss faster than the Alliance. AV definitely needs some fixing and even though I think this is a great start they will need to do more.

 

[Chaosy]

the win ratio between ally / horde on AV is like 10-1

 

[Razosh]

the win ratio between ally / horde on AV is like 10-1

I would say more like 60/40 in my experience but still something that needs to be attended.

 

[Chaosy]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content...ming-SoO-Changes-Feedback-Blue-Tweets-DLC-424


my bad it was 8-2 but close enough

 

[Razosh]

Isle of Conquest really doesn't come as a surprise though since the Alliance has a shorter route to the docks. But that it's actually 80/20 in Altarec Valley I would never have expected.

 

[PurgeandFire]

Isle of Conquest really doesn't come as a surprise though since the Alliance has a shorter route to the docks. But that it's actually 80/20 in Altarec Valley I would never have expected.

Well, in IoC you can still hit the guy capping before he gets it off. I think the issue on horde is that there is a big disagreement in tactics. 50% of horde are stupid and go for WS to kill ~5-10 alliance. Around 40% go to hangar (sometimes more though), which is smart and can actually have a decent win rate. 10% and others will go die somewhere else, e.g. docks. Horde rely on the few stealthies we have to kill glaives, which sadly only works around 1 in 5 times. As the expansion carried on, glaives became a little easier to kill, but we still manage to fail before they get it.

And then too few people concern over quarry and the refinery (or w/e they're called), because no one likes to stand there. This kinda happens on both sides--but it can drastically speed up glaives damage--or it can drastically increase the bombing.

Sadly, the hangar tactic is constantly countered by a bunch of allies camping their own base, and then allies just catapult themselves into horde base and start bombing themselves.

In the end, I think it is more of a mentality thing. IoC seems pretty balanced, and when we have a good team on horde, we can really dominate. But there is a big lack of morale, and way too many bots/idiots/afkers/people who are pvping 'just to pvp dude'.

--------

Sorry for the rant. It actually isn't THAT bad all the time. During call to arms, horde actually can try. But during all other times, we tend to just roll over. On my rogue (alliance), my ratio for IoC is 42-13 (76%), which is pretty good. I don't remember losing that often. As my lock (horde), it isn't that bad: 39-31 (55%). At least it is a winning rate, but I think I played IoC as him more towards the release of IoC. I really just stopped playing it (excepting during leveling) once blacklisting came out (both horde and ally), otherwise I'm pretty sure it'd be around 20%. So I'm not too surprised by the graph.

--------

As for AV, as Horde I usually feel like there is a 30% chance of winning. As ally, I feel like there is a 90% chance. I often blacklist AV too, so my statistics are a little old. As my lock (horde), I have 68-51 (57%). As my rogue (alliance), I have 36-9 (80%). Sadly, these statistics might be a little dated (at least for my lock) since I don't have access to my other characters' armories.

But yeah, I can agree with the trend in general. Alliance are usually all-stars in AV. They have a large defending group, and they get towers early. It is hard to counter because so many horde go to belinda and next to no one goes straight for the end GY/last 2 bunkers. Sometimes we'll have a group that'll defend towers, but it is never enough. Usually if we have defense, we have no offense. And it only takes ~2 towers down before they can easily down drek, so ally just need to turtle around Drek and those two towers.

There are a lot more reasons I'd like to go into, but it is all sort of circular and says generally the same thing.

tl;dr I don't think a terrain change will fix the AV problems (or IoC for that matter). Maybe it'll help, hopefully at least in morale (which is what horde really need), but I have my doubts.

 

[Razosh]

Finally what I've been waiting for so long, now I can finally ride my iron-bound protodrake into battle.

 

[PurgeandFire]

WoD should be fun. I'll happily ride my flying carpet into battle.