[Altered Melee] Project Hachigen

[Strydhaizer]

Project Hachigen
(made by Strydhaizer)

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Personal Note

Recently this year I decided to replay some of the classic Blizzard games (specifically Starcraft I, and then eventually Warcraft III) and coincidentally Blizzard also declared 1.29 as the official Legacy version of Warcraft in the Battlenet, which "kind-of, sort-of" motivated me to return to modding; it's a big deal to me as it means more players will actually have access to legacy (officially distributed by Blizzard), and I like creating maps in legacy still.

After 6 years of hiatus I decided to make something new again; a singleplayer altered melee map; And here it is.

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Description

Project Hachigen (Hachiken) is an "singleplayer" altered melee map set in an alternate universe of Warcraft. The map is a complete remake and a successor to my decade old map "The Caribbean", and uses my unfinished "Project Eurica" as its foundation. This map is heavily inspired from the simplistic melee gameplay of Starcraft I and The Scouring.

- This project aims to resolve the issues of my old project "The Caribbean" project such as tight spaces, unit & economy inbalance, and unit training limitations.

- This project will still feature the two initial "main" factions (humans vs. orcs) from its predecessor - with notable improvements. More subfactions may be added later in the development, or maybe even a new faction (there is a third faction that already exists in the map but currently not obtainable in the early version).

- Note that this project is primarily a melee map; this is not a campaign or story-oriented project. The premise is presented to you in a sandbox way instead of a cinematic and scriptwriting.

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Current Features

• Races: The map (currently) feature two main factions

Spoiler

1. The Vanguard (human faction)

- This race specializes primarily on the defensive; primarily focuses on healing and repair (self-preservation); and specializes in lightning abilities.

2. The Ironfang (orc faction)

- This race specializes primarily on the offense, focuses on aggressive abilities, and specializes on fire abilities --- and a dragon.

3. The ??? (??? faction) - currently functional but unobtainable (will likely be added later in the development)

- An unknown race; Rumor says they came from the Void, whatever that is.

• 8 Teams Map : The map features 3x and 7x AI; higher means more interactions between the teams but lesser resource nodes available.

• Attack Group Variations: The AIs will not have the same attack strategies. Some computers will attack you with artilleries, some with air units; or sometimes with a bunch of dragons. The map have multiple "sets" of army strategies as the AI of the map is semi-custom made (a hybrid of standard AI and a custom-made AI triggers)

[currently there are only 5 sets made in the early version; more may be added later]

• Battle Royale-esque Map Design: The map encourages the teams to move inwards as the outer nodes have lesser resources. There are 8 available outer nodes and 4 available inner nodes, when the outer nodes run dry 8 teams will be pushed to fight for the remaining 4 nodes. This also puts the remaining 4 teams closer together until you (the player) wins.

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Screenshots

Spoiler

I acknowledge that it is a little less detailed compared to my previous works; this is due to my time availability and game's limitation when making symmetrical maps (it is difficult to mirror when there are too much objects)

The use of standard cliffs instead of custom-made is also by choice as it is easier to deal with, they block unit visions properly, and they serve as "directors" for the AI pathing (so the AI will actually use the paths more frequently and not offroad unless necessary)

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Roadmap, Feedbacks and Known Bugs

Roadmap

Spoiler

I will not be dropping dates in the roadmap, but I plan to have them in the map.

- AI still use the default AI Editor's attack wave and resource gathering behavior (unit training and building constructions on the other hand); I plan to migrate all these to triggers at some point to have flexibility of their behaviors.

- AI should be able to use Overlords/Zeppelins to drop off attack units (related to bullet #1)

- Improvements in high tier units (currently they're just high HP/damage units)

- New factions, but primarily planning on sub-factions/variations of the existing humans and orcs.

- And lastly a new map; just a completely different map with the same custom melee gameplay offered by this map (when finished).

Feedbacks

Spoiler

- (Feedback) Reimplement Lumbermills (and AI should also be able to utilize it)

- (Feedback) Current population configuration is too limiting

- (Feedback) Towers are currently overpowered

Known Bugs

Spoiler

- Sometimes the AI building command just stalls, and the team completely abandons building the entire game (this rarely happens, but it can happen); killing all its workers will reset their building commands and will resolve this issue.

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Credits

A whole lot of love to the following people

Mr Goblin, Sin'dorei300 & 67chrome
- For the SoC Resource Pack, and other skins and icons made by these amazing artists

Wisdom
- For the "SoC Fun Made Resource" pack, I wish you didn't leave buddy

FrIkY
- For the Maghar Orcs Pack, and other skins and icons; can't make map with Orcs without these!

WILL THE ALMIGHTY
- For the explosion and blood effects, hard to find nowadays

Fingolfin
- For the environment assets which is pretty much a standard to all my maps at this point

bakr, BaiyuGalan & Jiok
- For the amazing faction buildings that I wish existed a decade ago

Mythic / Vinz
- For the beautiful modern special effects

Spellbound
- For the amazing legacy UI assets, pretty much a standard in my maps

Other Credits listed below

Spoiler

Pins
PrinceYaser
CRAZYRUSSIAN
zbc
Panda
NFWar
Hueter
UgoUgo
Rondo
InfernalTater
!!GORO!!
Villagerino
Kuhneghetz
olofmoleman
Dentothor
zbc
Paladon

(Still working on this list, some names may be missing)

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Compatibility

It is required to play the map in patch 1.29.2 (legacy) officially distributed in the Battlenet (it can also be played up to 1.31).

Reforged versions are not recommended as they break the UI and environment lighting of the map. It can be played in SD Reforged, but know that it WILL NOT work as originally intended.

Spoiler

This is how it looks in Reforged. Don't try it, it's broken.

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Closing Note & Download

I've attached below a working BETA copy of the map for those who want to try it; it is currently in BETA and seeking for suggestions and feedbacks. Also do mind that I'm not as available as I was 6 - 12 years ago, I'm a working man now. So revisions of this map might be slow.

If you read the whole post; and/or help with your feedbacks please know that I appreciate you so much Thank you!

The map is, as usual, open source; you can explore it in the editor if you wish; or even make a better version (just give credit to me and the list of people in the credits list).


Current Version - MXE_ProjectHachigen v.0.1

 

[AdinizWarcraft]

@Wazzz @SgtWinter Babes wake up, new altered melee just dropped.

Looks super interesting! I love the concept; it's akin to something @fluxcraft is working on, which is also really cool. A tad bit of a shame it's not officially supported on the latest patch but that's fair. I'll give it a play when I can and return with some feedback!

Edit: Singleplayer? Interesting. Is there a reason behind making the map singleplayer only?

 

[Strydhaizer]

Personally there is just no way for me to test the multiplayer as I don't play multiplayer. But I do allow people to alter the map/create a version that is playable in multiplayer (likely just a minor change here and there as isn't really much triggers in the map anyway). I might consider it at some point.

- The AI triggers I created (or rather the AI in general) already supports multiplayer, but there are few triggers like the dialogs that are only designed for Player 1.

Primarily my goal is to improve the AI to make them look and play smart against a human player.

I also updated the description to include the word 'singleplayer', I apologize for that part and thanks for pointing that out.

 

[AdinizWarcraft]

Personally there is just no way for me to test the multiplayer as I don't play multiplayer. But I do allow people to alter the map/create a version that is playable in multiplayer (likely just a minor change here and there as isn't really much triggers in the map anyway). I might consider it at some point.

- The AI triggers I created (or rather the AI in general) already supports multiplayer, but there are few triggers like the dialogs that are only designed for Player 1.

Primarily my goal is to improve the AI to make them look and play smart against a human player.

I also updated the description to include the word 'singleplayer', I apologize for that part and thanks for pointing that out.

I checked it out on the latest version, it's super awesome so far. Definitely the most atmospheric and immersive altered melee I've played so far, and it plays a lot like a mix of WC3 and WC2.

My feedback:

• Lumber collection feels a bit tedious. I couldn't find a lumbermill for faster collection, and the expensive lumber prices paired with workers collecting less lumber means it's kind of difficult to gather a lot of it. It'd be interesting if there'd be some sort of lumber collection unit; kind of like a mobile lumbermill. Wagons? Caravans?
• I'm not sure how to feel about upkeep remaining a gameplay element. It's an annoying mechanic even in wc3, and it was only really added because of performance limitations that don't exist anymore. I'd honestly remove it, or alternatively replace it with something more fun to play around. (e.g. a crazy idea would be allowing players to train units over the food cap, but the more you train over the food cap, the worse your army performs/the less resources you get.)
• Do creeps serve a purpose?
• Towers are incredibly busted for their capabilities vs units and their overall stats, paired with their price. I think they should also cost lumber.
• I get a very gritty and dark feeling from the overall style, and I feel like Vanguard buildings clash with that style; they look too cartoony. Have you checked out SinisterX's blood elf building pack? It's not on Hive, but it's a very similar style while looking more Warcraft-ish, if you get what I mean.

Overall, I enjoyed it a lot. For a beta, it's pretty fleshed out and the overall vibe I got from the map was awesome. I do think multiplayer could be implemented anyhow; just keep the dialog for the host (player 1).

On another note, I do think you're kind of missing out by not working on this map on 1.31 at the very least. There's many ways this map could benefit from Lua and Custom UI (from better performance to some better visual representation of certain mechanics). I do respect and enjoy that you're keeping it open and viable for players on 1.29 to check out though!

 

[Strydhaizer]

Lumber collection feels a bit tedious. I couldn't find a lumbermill for faster collection, and the expensive lumber prices paired with workers collecting less lumber means it's kind of difficult to gather a lot of it. It'd be interesting if there'd be some sort of lumber collection unit; kind of like a mobile lumbermill. Wagons? Caravans?

My initial mindset was; with lumbermills players can gather lumbers quicker than AIs causing imbalance (AI currently doesn't know where to place them and how to use them properly). I had to cut them out due to this reason (they do exist, they're just unobtainable).

I might bring them back; and declare some spots in the map where AIs should build them.

This goes to the list.

Spoiler

Cut Buildings

I'm not sure how to feel about upkeep remaining a gameplay element. It's an annoying mechanic even in wc3, and it was only really added because of performance limitations that don't exist anymore. I'd honestly remove it, or alternatively replace it with something more fun to play around. (e.g. a crazy idea would be allowing players to train units over the food cap, but the more you train over the food cap, the worse your army performs/the less resources you get.)

Funny thing is I do agree with this part. No I didn't limit it for performance reasons (I actually optimized the AI triggers for 3 weeks! to support 8 teams with hundreds of units in the map), I limited it just because it causes imbalance as human players can rush towards building lots of overpowered artilleries and end the game in 5 ~ 10 minutes.

I agree with this because I like Command and Conquer games and those games did not have food limits (which is what made them fun). I do actually plan to lower the building time further so the interactions between the teams (the fights) becomes more frequent - which complements to this feedback.

I might experiment with this to up the population further for all the teams (removing the cap will obsolete the farms); the handicap idea is actually genius.

This goes to the list.

Do creeps serve a purpose?

At the moment none, at one point I experimented with heroes but I removed them because I didn't want the players to focus on leveling up heroes (I wanted to copy Starcraft I's melee and that game did not have heroes).

- The units "Marshal" and "Brutus" were once heroes sometime in the development; I converted them to high tier units.

I only kept the creeps just to fill empty parts of the map and contribute to the atmosphere; they also slow down the enemy AI teams from rushing towards the enemy teams in the early game.

Towers are incredibly busted for their capabilities vs units and their overall stats, paired with their price. I think they should also cost lumber.

The towers were an afterthought lol. I initially wanted to not have towers at all. I added them late in the development just to prevent the players from rushing towards the enemy bases early game; which is why they are kind of overpowered at the moment.

I'll try to work on this and figure this out.

I get a very gritty and dark feeling from the overall style, and I feel like Vanguard buildings clash with that style; they look too cartoony. Have you checked out SinisterX's blood elf building pack? It's not on Hive, but it's a very similar style while looking more Warcraft-ish, if you get what I mean.

I can see what you're saying. I used these buildings because they have this "royal" look to them which complements with the SoC units that I am using for the human faction.

I'll try to look for alternatives, but no guarantees that they will be replaced (for now).

On another note, I do think you're kind of missing out by not working on this map on 1.31 at the very least. There's many ways this map could benefit from Lua and Custom UI (from better performance to some better visual representation of certain mechanics). I do respect and enjoy that you're keeping it open and viable for players on 1.29 to check out though!

Trust me I want to work in 1.31, even I hate working in 1.29.2 because of the 64 fps limit and the outdated editor, it's just that Blizzard chose 1.29.2 as the official legacy version and I want the map to be accessible to many players.


Thank you very much for giving it a shot and for your feedbacks, it means alot!

 

[AdinizWarcraft]

My initial mindset was; with lumbermills players can gather lumbers quicker than AIs causing imbalance (AI currently doesn't know where to place them and how to use them properly). I had to cut them out due to this reason (they do exist, they're just unobtainable).

I might bring them back; and declare some spots in the map where AIs should build them.

This goes to the list.

Spoiler

Cut Buildings

View attachment 598411

Funny thing is I do agree with this part. No I didn't limit it for performance reasons (I actually optimized the AI triggers for 3 weeks! to support 8 teams with hundreds of units in the map), I limited it just because it causes imbalance as human players can rush towards building lots of overpowered artilleries and end the game in 5 ~ 10 minutes.

I agree with this because I like Command and Conquer games and those games did not have food limits (which is what made them fun). I do actually plan to lower the building time further so the interactions between teams (the fights) becomes more frequent - which complements to this feedback.

I might experiment with this to up the population further for all the teams (removing the cap will obsolete the farms); the handicap idea is actually genius.

This goes to the list.



At the moment none, at one point I experimented with heroes but I removed them because I didn't want the players to focus on leveling up heroes (I wanted to copy Starcraft I's melee and that game did not have heroes).

- The units "Marshal" and "Brutus" were once heroes sometime in the development; I converted them to high tier units.

I only kept the creeps just to fill empty parts of the map and contribute to the atmosphere; they also slow down the enemy AI teams from rushing towards the enemy teams in the early game.



The towers were an afterthought lol. I initially wanted to not have towers at all. I added them late in the development just to prevent the players from rushing towards the enemy bases early game; which is why they are kind of overpowered at the moment.

I'll try to work on this and figure this out.



I can see what you're saying. I used these buildings because they have this "royal" look to them which complements with the SoC units that I am using for the human faction.

I'll try to look for alternatives, but no guarantees that they will be replaced (for now).



Trust me I want to work in 1.31, even I hate working in 1.29.2 because of the 64 fps limit and the outdated editor, it's just that Blizzard chose 1.29.2 as the official legacy version and I want the map to be accessible to many players.


Thank you very much for giving it a shot and for your feedbacks, it means alot!

For creeps, you could go the Stormgate approach of creeps that:

• either provide global bonuses that affect units/buildings for the player, e.g. extra defense on buildings, or extra dmg on ranged units, like in early access Stormgate
• roguelike-esque random rewards, like a rune unit (rune units in stormgate are units that can turn themselves into wards/die to cast an ability, so essentially a living item, as if items were their own 1-time use units), get a creep unit as your own, resources, etc, like in modern day Stormgate.

Addendum: When I open the map, I can't see the model, texture and icon imports in the Asset/Import Manager for whatever reason, and upon saving the map, they aren't loaded in by the editor either, dropping the filesize from 50 MB to 6. Happens in both 1.29 and 2.0.4. Did you import them directly using the MPQ editor on the map?

 

[Strydhaizer]

I haven't played Stormgate yet. I'll look it up on Steam and try it.

Addendum: When I open the map, I can't see the model, texture and icon imports in the Asset/Import Manager for whatever reason, and upon saving the map, they aren't loaded in by the editor either, dropping the filesize from 50 MB to 6. Happens in both 1.29 and 2.0.4. Did you import them directly using the MPQ editor on the map?

Yes. I don't directly import the files in the map via the Import Manager (I develop my maps in a loose-files approach). I only add the map assets during release with the MPQ Editor.

Here are the asset files if you need them

Vault: Project Hachigen Asset Files

www.hiveworkshop.com

 

[AdinizWarcraft]

I haven't played Stormgate yet. I'll look it up on Steam and try it.



Yes. I don't directly import the files in the map via the Import Manager, I only add the map assets during release with the MPQ Editor because it's much easier.

Here are the asset files if you need them

Vault: Project Hachigen Asset Files

www.hiveworkshop.com

That's fair. I used Folder Mode on the latest version to mass-import them and update the import manager.

Here's how the overall layout looks with SinisterX's pack. Needs some small adjustments but it's not bad.