Political Hive

[varsaigen]

XD so true. So true.

 

[Hakeem]

Because unlike you we have experianced it.

You have personally experienced the future?

A child, born by accident, has a low chance of being loved by his parents because he was an "accident".

Many great discoveries were by accident. Did people not like those?
You mean someone would let a life grow in them for 9 months and not give a damn because it was an "accident"?

That information would make him miderable and what friends he has might walk away

If I found out today, that I was an accident, I wouldn't really care, so I don't see where you're coming from. In my experience, this is not the case.

It is very probable, proven by previous cases.

All babies not aborted are hated? Okay, now I know somebody here is missing something big.

I don't know if Hakeem is getting this, but you guys are right.

You guys are talking about bad lives, without proving that a baby not aborted will have a life like the ones you describe.

XD so true. So true.

Whatever you need to convince yourself.


Hint: My argument is that you don't know the future.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

You are not getting this. We Do know the future. Every child grown up a hard life will not be happy. I know. I have friends that know. Always the same. Never different. Get it? Now if you have a mental child, Then maby they will be happy. A regular child, Never.
Get over it.

 

[varsaigen]

Yep. Also, Hakeem, perhaps you should become a girl, get drunk, raped while unconcious, and unable to have an abortion and take care of the kid(s) that you have after the father walks away. Perhaps that will make it obvious? XD

 

[Hakeem]

We Do know the future.

Obviously.

Every child grown up a hard life will not be happy.

I'm not arguing against this, I'm arguing that you don't know that a baby not aborted will have a hard time growing up. I wasn't aborted and I didn't have a hard time growing up.

perhaps you should become a girl,

For the purposes of argument.

get drunk,

DING DING DING DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNER FOLKS!

I would never drink. Ever.

raped while unconcious,

Well this is still possible without getting drunk, so your post doesn't fall apart at "drunk".

and unable to have an abortion

Unable? I am not arguing that women should be unable to get abortions, I do think they should be allowed to get abortions. I would never get one myself, or encourage anyone to get one, or participate in carrying out the abortion, or ridicule someone for getting an abortion. I'm just not gonna let you justify killing a baby.

and take care of the kid(s) that you have

I would give them up for adoption if I was an inadequate mother.

after the father walks away.

Well if it was rape, then it's likely the father never even knew. If it's not rape, then why are you aborting?

 

[Sergeant Ray]

You don't give up, do you?

I'm not arguing against this, I'm arguing that you don't know that a baby not aborted will have a hard time growing up. I wasn't aborted and I didn't have a hard time growing up.

What does that have to do with a child being aborted because the parents don't care about them? What does anything you've said these last few days have anything to do with a child being aborted because the parents don't care about them? My arguement was why have a baby if you don't care for the kid, causing it to live a shitty life. And then we have you arguing in with shit about the future. Pay attention.

 

[varsaigen]

Originally Posted by Hakeem
I wasn't aborted and I didn't have a hard time growing up.

So, you're saying you are the result of your dad raping your mom? Oo Because taht's the kind of situation we're talking about. Not just any babies, but the ones born through rape...

 

[Hakeem]

My arguement was why have a baby if you don't care for the kid, causing it to live a shitty life.

Then it can be given up for adoption.

So, you're saying you are the result of your dad raping your mom?

Probably not, but I still wasn't aborted.

Because taht's the kind of situation we're talking about. Not just any babies, but the ones born through rape...

So a child of rape is blamed for the rape?

 

[varsaigen]

... I'm not saying they can't be put up for adoption (I know 2-3 that were adopted and their lives aren't the best...) and I'm not saying they are to blame. (Why am I wasting my time trying to explain repetitively... *sigh*)

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Why put them up for adoption, when they can help cure illnesses dead? If you had a terminal disease, and the only thing could save you is stemcells, you'd think twice.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Waiting for an answer.

 

[varsaigen]

Sarge, I don't think you'll get an answer. XD And that mean's you, Masiah, and I won! =D

 

[Arvedui]

Hakeem won.

Hakeem always wins.

I don't know/care what you're arguing about but in one way or another, Hakeem is going to win

EDIT: OK went back and read it, and Hakeem still won

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Shut up. No he didn't.
Get over it.

 

[varsaigen]

lol Sarge is right. Sure Hakeem can win most things, but he can't win politics. And if he always wins, then we can be famous for his first loss.

 

[Masiah]

Hakeem failed. And if he has won all the previous arguments... there is always a first time. Evidence is on our side.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Masiah created the group. He said Hakeem failed, well then, tee hee, HAKEEM FAILED!!!!

 

[Arvedui]

Hakeem is the only one who made valid points. You all fail.

 

[varsaigen]

open yours eyes! Very few people that I know think logically, and you're not one of them. Try putting things in logic and stop with the "Hakeem wins cause he's my hero" stuff. -_- These pathetic things you say are getting very old.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Hakeem's points were not valid. Each point he made had a downside, and no one ever follows the path he created. Hakeem failed. Get over it.

 

[Arvedui]

Are you kidding me?

Hakeem my hero?! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Way to not know anything at all. Sarge I would just stop talking if I were you.

EDIT: In an attempt to keep things civil and on-topic, maybe Masiah should think of a new topic.

 

[varsaigen]

Well, the way you support him to death, I'd say he was your hero. It appears that way in all cases. Anyway, I do beieve we should change topics. This argument has been discussed and closed. Hakeem failed.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Arvedui, Why don't you join politics so we can talk about how stupid you are? Hakeems points are not valid. In the end the kid gets fucked over if they chose Hakeem's path. Why would I choose, if I had a kid, to let my girl go through all the trouble and pain only to get rid of it, when I can eaisly get the little bitch sucked out, and who knows, in the future save someones life? Hakeems path is work and painful, why take it when there is is any eaiser way out? Hakeem fails. You fail. All of you, start thinking before you post.
End
Masiah, new subject please.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

So, Hakeem was lol'ing about this in chat. This discussion has already been had. I'm too lazy to find a link, but Hakeem's position ended up dominating the thread. Don't disallow it per say, but don't endorse or reject it either. I love that the majority of you idiots in here aren't pro-choice, as in choose to have it or not, you're pro-abortion.

 

[Masiah]

*Gets the flame extinguisher* Next topic: Differences between internet communities and "real life" communities.

 

[varsaigen]

*Sigh* Thick headed people... Can we please get to the next subject? ><

 

[Arvedui]

Well, I'm happy to announce that Sarge and Varsaigen walked into a well laid trap by me, and for that I'm sorry.

You see, I have been debating with myself for some time now on whether or not separate "groups", such as Midivh's tower, that only allow certain people in, are a good thing.

Why? Well because dividing people like this is initially, I thought, against everything that I have ever believed, and as such, I was completely against them, but after participating in more than a couple threads about politics (and other things) where random people (with good intentions, no doubt) just came in, flamed practically everyone, contributed nothing to the conversation, and then left.

Obviously that's not good, for the forum or for the thread. So then I started to think what would happen if someone started to regulate who got to post in a certain forum? The obvious answer was Midivh's tower here at Hive. And looking at it, and though I see some random flaming, it's significantly less than in general user groups, such as this group (Which was made with good intentions by Masiah.. I should remember.. I was the 2nd member after him).

So in order to decide for myself I took this group. The topic was certainly valid and I wanted to see if two normal users, Sarge (newcomer) and varsaigen (not-so-newcomer, who I actually kinda like) would act appropriately.

Unfortunately my worst fears were solidified because, not only did I get flamed for daring to disagree with them, but they insulted me personally. Both of which are against the rules, by the way

So thanks to this little "social experiment" I found out my answer. It wasn't the answer I was hoping for, but it was the answer I expected.

I'm not saying that I'm going to apply for Midivh's Tower (because I still feel a little like it's a separate society), or that you still shouldn't debate politics. To be honest, I'm writing this just to let you know, how badly you all failed at debating.

You see, when someone who has an opposing view as you posts, or says something (whatever the case may be) you shouldn't automatically jump to name-calling and insulting the person's intelligence. That's for two year olds. You should ask "Why don't you agree with me?" or "Why do you see it that way?" not "gtfo 0ut n00b, I is 1337 and u sux." Which is essentially what I see.

So please, for the sake of the art of debate: Learn to do it.

EDIT: And Ephy... <3. 'Nuff said.
EDIT2: I'm not going to report anyone for the flaming, as I practically brought it on myself, but any message after this one, I will report. Good day

 

[varsaigen]

I read your post and honestly, this is a debate group where people are supposed to argue. (I will note that this isn't flaming) But I don't see where I insulted or flamed at people. I see points being argued at and by me. I can't speak for other members, but I enjoy debates and do my best to keep it on topic. Sure, everyone slips up everynow and then, but I do my best to keep it on topic. Please do not report this as a attempt at flaming, or spam, for that is not the intention of this post.

 

[Arvedui]

Varsaigen, there's a difference between arguing and debating which is what the point was honestly.

In debating a person actually debates and gives valid points for their point, and the other person tries to rebut that.

Arguing on the other hand, is just "yelling" at one another calling each other stupid. Which is what happened. I'm sorry to say that it did, but it did.

And I'm not reporting every post, I meant only flaming ones. Sorry for not being clear on that.

 

[varsaigen]

I figured as much. I agree that there is a line between debating and arguing, but political debates tend to be arguing points to win.

 

[Arvedui]

Sorry, I edited my post, I do that a lot because I always think of something better to say after I actually say something xD

Yes, most political/social debates tend to turn to arguing, which is frighteningly depressing. I do it, everyone does it, because you believe so passionately in your beliefs, and I try hard not to let that happen, but yes it happens nonetheless and you should always try to calm down and avoid letting your emotions take you over.

 

[varsaigen]

Agreed. Same thing happens to me.

Sometimes, during debates, where I am trying to get a logical idea or proof through someone's thick skull as to the uses or point of something (Not intended to be offensive to anyone here that fits that catagory. ) and they just don't get it. Either I get other people to agree or they do their best to make me look stupid. XD

 

[Masiah]

Hmmm... If you post something expecting that people will flame you/other... isn't that called trolling? Bah, I'm must be getting paranoid.
The reason of the creation of this group was very simple: I consider that serious topics in any forum have to be read and discussed by as many people as possible, including those that can't or simply don't want to join Medivh's tower. Elitism in politics is as stupid as seeing an emo being optimist (no offence meant).

 

[varsaigen]

lol. point made.

 

[Arvedui]

Expecting to be flamed isn't trolling, saying something on purpose to get a reaction is, which is not what I did. I simply stated my opinion, which was then flamed.

My initial intention was not my "test" but only after being flamed by Sarge did I think of it.

If I may inform you, my first post saying "Hakeem won" was a joke to Hakeem, because he never admits defeat.

Anyway, places like Midivh's tower and this group are here so people can have intelligent debate. Not have people say "Shut up" to you just because you disagreed with them. And if you bothered to read what I said, was the intention of my posts. To get you people to realize that you can't flame someone just because they disagree with you. You need to learn how to debate, or calm yourself down enough to have a valid point that isn't riddled with retardedness.


EDIT: Ok, on-topic: Next topic: Differences between internet communities and "real life" communities.

You can't physically interact with people on internet communities?

 

[Deleted member 139377]

I am back....

/me tries to find the curret topic.

 

[Masiah]

Let's make it differences and similarities then...
I've read somewhere that a current theory about the internety stating that entities withint it (like the users here) are made up of information and mind (psychological characteristics) rather than matter and mind as in the "real world". What do you think about this statement?

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Expecting to be flamed isn't trolling, saying something on purpose to get a reaction is, which is not what I did. I simply stated my opinion, which was then flamed.

My initial intention was not my "test" but only after being flamed by Sarge did I think of it.

If I may inform you, my first post saying "Hakeem won" was a joke to Hakeem, because he never admits defeat.

Anyway, places like Midivh's tower and this group are here so people can have intelligent debate. Not have people say "Shut up" to you just because you disagreed with them. And if you bothered to read what I said, was the intention of my posts. To get you people to realize that you can't flame someone just because they disagree with you. You need to learn how to debate, or calm yourself down enough to have a valid point that isn't riddled with retardedness.


EDIT: Ok, on-topic: Next topic: Differences between internet communities and "real life" communities.

You can't physically interact with people on internet communities?

You think I flamed you? No. If you want me to flame you, I can. There is a topic, finding out what flamming is, most people don't seem to understand.
BTW An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion
Chick troller, for example.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

You think I flamed you? No.

Arvedui, Why don't you join politics so we can talk about how stupid you are?

*cough*

Anyways, what makes a troll is not the material they post but the intent behind the post. If someone sincerely believes the controversial points they are making, they have controversial opinions.

 

[varsaigen]

I guess we found a topic! XD
Topic: What makes a troll?

 

[Masiah]

Beer and lack of patience.

 

[Verhalthur]

A troll is someone who swears or attacks anyone unnecessarily, and/or repeatedly

 

[DrazharLn]

A troll lives under a bridge near my house...
It's made of rock and eats stags.

<--- is referencing semi-obscure fairy tales

 

[varsaigen]

a troll is a species that lives all over the world and have large tusks growing from their mouths. Females have small tusks and all trolls have a belief in the voodoo form of magic, using darkness and magic. Trolls have a funny sense of humor and if made angry, can go for your head. They have very short tempers and are great with spears. They are most commonly called savages as they are canabalistic.

 

[Sergeant Ray]

A troll is someone who never got laid.

 

[varsaigen]

and that is what percent of the world's population? XD

 

[Sergeant Ray]

Perverts that never made it in high school. Christians.

 

[varsaigen]

... so, the junior high kids that drop out are perverted? Oo

 

[Sergeant Ray]

No, the ones that never made it with the ladies in high school.

 

[DrazharLn]

By your definition all gay people are trolls. :/
I wouldn't correlate a pattern of behaviour on the internet with heterosexual activity TBH. But I assume you have done the appropriate studies and suchlike.

[the above is intended to be amusing, yet thought provoking ]