ORPG's always the same...

[Aschy]

I have been wondering about how to make a ORPG so that you want to play it over and over and over until you beat it. But you can't beat ORPGs for some reason, you always get stronger and stronger so that you can kill stronger and stronger creeps and bosses. But what if there was a way to win or put your hero to use after you have basically become the strongest that you can become.

My question is what do people really want from ORPGs is it the mindless grinding? the gaining of new and better gear? pvp? professions and economy?

If you had the chance to decide how an ORPG ended how would you make it end or if you don't want it to end why?


I ask this because ORPGs can become very popular but then die off very soon after.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

I would like to see an epic cinematic at the end.

 

[TheBlooddancer]

I would like a Fable-Orpg with some epic goal. When this is done, its done.

 

[~Void~]

I think pvp is the way to go. But pvp in a different way than just duels or arenas. Something like an AOS element where you could load up your character and kick everyone's ass.

I also think there should be a skill element. Gaining levels shouldn't make you automatically stronger than people, it should just allow you to customize your character more.

For example, with each level you get spell points. All spells are balanced so none are better than others, and there are no "Ranks" for spells. They are all just as powerful. But the more skill points you have, the more combos you can explore.

So if at level 1 you have a ranged nuke, a melee range AOE stun and a passive that increases your attack damage. They don't have any synergy at all. But when you get level 2, you can buy a passive that increases your movement speed so you can get closer to your enemies in order to AOE stun them. At level 3, you can "sell" your nuke and buy two spells that help you, a ranged distance slow spell and an immolation spell.

Make sense?

 

[Aschy]

I asked this because I want to make an ORPG but I don't want it to be a grind and kill like every other one cause obviously they always fail.

So great idea void, I was only planning on making like 10 levels in my ORPG but I may add a couple more depending on how many spells I give to each class. But I may use your suggestion by making the attributes given to your hero every level very very low and decrease all the bonus's from attributes to make it harder to make your hero become stronger. Thus making skill a huge factor in the ORPGs PvP. But better gear will always mean that you have an advantage.

But I may add a couple different attributes to my game that may have to do with PvP to make it harder to gear your player. Which means in the end my ORPG will have to do greatly with PvP.

 

[~Void~]

I'm alright with the better gear thing, but let me suggest that the difference between the best gear and the cheapest gear shouldn't bee TOO good, maybe the best armor would increase your overall power by 20% whereas the cheapest would increase it by 5%.

 

[Aschy]

Ah thanks void note taken, Ive never thought of using ratios I have always used formulas

 

[~Void~]

Hm, well I just find if you use ratios it's very easy to balance things :]

 

[Evilz]

How about making a sad ending for the ORPG ?
I never see an ORPG with sad ending.. why not do it?

 

[Gaegamel]

A nice part for an ORPG would be:

- optional jobs, who are helping all. Like: Miner, armorer,smith (i don' and didn't play wow yet, but it seems, that you should try to get near the wow-ish system. It provides some goldincome with such proffessions)

- Races: (And please add dwarves. They are the best ^_^), like elves (i mean the white skinned agile guys of the forest ), orcs, humans, dwarves (i know, i already mentioned that ) and at last some halflings of each race. Like half human, half elf.

So you give every race a bonus (like some strengh to dwarves (!) and some agility to elves. The humans would be intelligent and the orcs stupid, but a huge damage boost)

Some nice benefits would be:

Human - +10 int + 30% mana regen
Elves - + 5 agi + 20 movespeed + 2% attackspeed
Orcs - + 15 str -10% attackspeed (+ the minus with their weapons)
Trolls - a pet (because they tame them) + 4 agi
Ogres - + 20 atr, -25% attackspeed (+ [same as orcs])
Dwarfs - + 20 attackdamage (not strengh, so keep an eye on that), -5-10% attackspeed; -5% movespeed (they are small ^^); + 150 - 200 hp (to keep balance)

another nice point would be:

- epic and good terrain (this is the most important thing)
- good and very smoothed models (noone wants to see squares)
- TRIGGERED (just to mention *cough*) spells (1 race specific spell though ^^)
- Nice and fair balanced monsters (also good models for them) *

- A new way of talking. Not just quest bla bla and then "horray, you solved the quest of getting my pants from the windmill of horrors. Some things like comnplete and long dialogues are needed. There need to be 4-6 towns where every folk has his own name and his own history (i would help you with that. You can trust me ^^)

- Nothing more to tell here, because i need to see your reaction and your upcoming motivation

* You can even change skin color (makes some wc3 models look better sometimes)

 

[kmde613]

Ever tried Ragos RPG? The grinding in there is minimal.
Until now, it's still the best RPG i have played, i haven't found any other RPG as good as it.

Sadly, noone hardly plays the game and the creator doesn't continue to polish it anymore since it still has a few leaks in it's load system.
The good thing about that game was that it's max level was 10, and after 10, all you have to do is load your character on other maps and beat the end-game dungeon/boss. Then save your character. then Load into another map.

 

[Nurga]

I will do it like this:
-Epic Story, but it will not end after you have done all quest, "sad" ending
-Later, adding more level to the game, like from 100 up to 150.
-More Items, more quest more classes more epic things, more jobs
or just MORE.
-Blizzard´s WoW is doing the right way. A never ending story, will continued over and over, max. level is going to increase....more items, new worlds. Players want to be the best. So PvP too.
Thats what i will do i hope people will have fun with it. I will create new ideas of quests, bossfights, tactics...etc

@kmde613 i never saw this rpg but i have the same idea...load you character in new worlds for more space in your own little World

 

[kmde613]

Sadly, there are no other RPGs such as Ragos. And the problem with Ragos right now is that the maker (BOESERTEDDY) has stopped it since the project was like 2 YEARS ago.
I would play Ragos, but the -save/load code is too buggy, sometimes you loose your character and the code just stops working all of a sudden after opening a new game session. It's weird. Works at first and doesn't work at all on the next.

I wish someone would make a similar map like that.
It was Simple, yet Elegant.
It did not have a complicated Inventory System.
It did not have a complicated Skill System.
Everything Was Simple.
There were no "Choosable Races"
There were no "Overly Scripted Skills". Special Effects for the spells were barely see-able.
But the game was a challenge as the bosses we're Scripted... PROPERLY.

I wish someone would just make a remake of the game with out ruining it's simplicities.

 

[howl2000]

Yes it is alot more fun for me if I can take my load code to another map. Ragos was one of the best like that. But like he said my save code bugged at the start of the third map. So I quit and never played again.

You could pull a diablo and have 3 difficulties where difficulty increases all the monsters on the maps level and increases loot drops.

 

[Nurga]

< There were no "Choosable Races" >
What you mean with this?
Cause you posted Ragos is a nice orpg, i tested it.
Its quiet nice, but the save is a bit buggy right.
While i played, i saw many things are like in my orpg.
But BOESERTEDDY could not copy this things from me sure, my orpg is already in building-phase^^
-3 Skilltrees for every class (i will begin with 1 per class)
-8 Classes
-Load hero in another map
-pvp
-bosses & items
Read the thread "Dungeon Gods ORPG" and test my map. It could be very bad cause its not ready yet. have fun!

 

[kmde613]

< There were no "Choosable Races" >
What you mean with this?

You know those maps where you have to choose your "Race" as an elf or whatsoever? Ragos didn't have that.
It was simple
If only someone can get BOESERTEDDY's permission to edit the -save/load code, I will surely play the game again either its being updated or not

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Sounds more like you want to make a singleplayer RPG to me.

Storylines are always the way to go. but a pvp orientated ORPG sounds awesome.

 

[Nurga]

@kmde613: now i understood...you mean just pick a hero.
Thats same in my one. If someone would play ragos i would play with
The only thing i don´t like is BOESERTEDDY took parts of World of Warcraft. He should think things at his own. thats makes the orpg more specific.
@The wand mirror: PvP ORPGs are pretty cool yes. If you don´t want to level up or doing quests, why don´t kill your friends and other players get a pvp king with rank like: Marshal or like this. thats what i planned.
Wow, this thread is helpfull for my orpg i can see what people what in their orpgs. not like Blizzard: "We just do THIS now."
Thanks for ideas etc
I ever try to make my heroes custom, like with skilltrees, skilling on an attribute and items...but thats it sad there is no trigger to change the name of the unit, not the player. this would be pretty cool

 

[Dr. Boom]

Seas =)

Hmm I'm trying to make an Orpg with an end ( http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/idea-factory-462/silence-of-nature-127665/ )

The link will give you just a low stuff of information but I want edit it ... if I have some time.

As of the typical orpg stuff ...
In SoN you dont need more gear - better gear - epic gear. If wont be an endless farming of stuff - gear - mats.
End there is actualy a simple end. Mission: Rescure and Restore the World - and if it done - end.

I think endless orpg are ... jeah there got no goal .. so endless gameing > and I think thats bored. I mean a good orpg needs challenges - and actualy the challenge to win the map.

 

[tjdrake719]

I think there are two ways to add replayability:

1st - Have concrete goals in the game. Make it open, but also make epic goals that must be achieved with a team in order to advance. This will add to the team element and will also give a good reference point for making games.

2nd - I really like the idea of being able to load your hero onto another pvp map. Whether it be pvp or aos, being able to use what you created outside of the grind is a good idea. Perhaps you could even do a series of different battles (eg, arena, TD with hero, aos) so that the players have something to do while you are adding new content.

 

[Nurga]

Me again (it seems like spam doesn´t it?^^=
I will begin a Beta Phase in July & August, first closed, then open.
If you want to join the closed go here http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/dungeon-gods-orpg-124351/index3.html#post1139437 and tell me you want to join the closed beta i used many ideas of this thread to make my orpg for the people outside there, not just for me

 

[MoronSonOfBoron]

Possibly a little late or off topic, but I'd like to suggest working a faction/nation system into it. Earlier in the thread, you mentioned including AOS-type elements; perhaps have active wars going on between regions, which players are free to join in on as mercenaries or allying themselves with particular groups.

I don't think reputation is new to ORPGs, but having multiple (and exclusive) lines of reputation could increase replayability since players would have to work hard to change a character's reputation, or start over with a new character to have a blank slate. Of course, you could avoid saving reputation, though that forces players to go through all their faction quests again... This all depends on how you include persistent effects that carry over with a character regardless of faction, and balance those against exclusive effects that only apply to faction members.

 

[asam3]

Ragos was bad, you only get to be level 10, wtf?

anyway, an ORPG cannot end. but i was thinking of stuff that can trigger events, and the fights in those quest will always have a grand start and a great cinematic at the end. then when you finish the last event, a special event will happen, and what happens depends upon how you did the quests. (so loading a save file continues the chain of quests)

 

[Dalemil]

ORPG's are things meant to be added onto after its initial release to stop the boring of players.

 

[Avator]

I've posted with 2 other (O)RPG threads today. The key about every RPG is the story. An ORPG is just an RPG for multiplayer. But multiplayer games cause problems like higher lvls interfering with lower lvls and ruining their fun, and the plot is ruined. That has to be avoided in order to make an ORPG the way it's supposed to be made. Unfortunely, I don't think any MMORPG (outside of Wc3) has ever been able to accomplish that, so I give you little chance. I suggest a single player RPG instead.

 

[Nurga]

@MoronSonOfBoron: Yes, i´ve a little AoS/Fraction Part in my Map, a war between Fulborgs & Desert Thieves, you can join one of them, to get EXP, PvP (if another player joined the enemy side) and Items. Maybe i add some more Fractions later.

@asam3: Ragos ORPG really has just 10 levels, but the creator (BOESERTEDDY) tell you ingame that lvl isn´t that what count. The items are the most important. YOu will only get better items with good items. It´s a "system" of motivation.
ORPGs never end, yes but the actually game can end! (If you killed the Highest Boss, end cinematic etc.) but after that the game may be boring (no quests, strong bosses etc)

@Avator: It´s the thing you have to put the high lvl players to something to do, like farming for itemsets etc. So they have no time to lvl up small lvlers and newbies

 

[Avator]

The lower lvls ask for powerleveling. Clans/guilds will do it for them. The best shot would probably be to separate the game in lvls to avoid that.

 

[Nurga]

:/ i will think about it

 

[~Void~]

You guys realize this was posted in december of 2008?

Anyways, if we're going to continue the discussion, I gotta argue with you TWM; storylines are not the way to go. It's better to have an open story that heavily depends on the player's choices and actions.

 

[Avator]

No, because that would change everything into side-quests, which would lead to the thread title: ORPGs are always the same...

 

[~Void~]

Not if done well, because side-quests don't have to be OMG WTF GO KILL 20000 CENTAURS AND RETURN TO GET MONEY.

 

[Avator]

No, but they will not get you any real story unless you're planning to make a different story or a significant twist in the base story for every choice you make.

 

[HellishProphet]

I may be new here but here is my 2 cents.

I agree that level shouldn't make you the end-all be-all. ORPGs that deter from level being the main point and move it into items or some other radical thing are the ones the never really get old.

Like Monster Master ORPG for example. It beats the hell out off a conventional ORPG. You have 3 Monsters(heroes) and 1 main guy instead of the focal single hero. Your main guy doesn't even attack all he does is summon. His level determines what items your 3 monsters can have. And they can only carry 2 each which means u got to put a lot of thought into what you put on them. The map is separated into 14 areas(11-14 not yet done) and a needed rank for each area(rank matches are hugely expensive). So that dwindles down the bonus/speed of power-leveling. Even more-so you can fuse you 3 monsters into hundreds of combos with 5 tiers. Max lvl 30, and even a unique thing called a fuse level which u get from fusing high level monsters.

Robbepop made a truly amazing ORPG what has a lot of depth and fun to it. It has one of the highest work/pay-off ratios I've ever seen. People were talking about ORPG being the same, i just wanted to mention one that clearly broke that chain.