[Miscellanous / Other] Northrend Bound: v1.84 Open Source

[BoleSrbin023]

I have an idea.You should make cities and villages conquerable.That would be huge improvment compared to FotN.And if you could use some help with creating villages and towns I would be glad to help.

 

[BoleSrbin023]

And I would suggest to first finnish terrain and then do everything else.

 

[Railto]

On the templar Defend (E) doesnt work when you try to desactivate it via E
You can spam several barns and just buy items to get a lot of exp easily perhaps you should add the "trading goods" category and just selling that to a market should give exp to make trading fair? as it didnt give exp in fotn though it gave insane amounts of gold
You can farm tons of gold with a mule auto looting inside a chicken pen
cant unlock the ability to plant faster even if you fulfil the requirements
several times when selecting the backpack it starts to deselect anything or it would just plain woudlnt let you do anything like move units and stuff or things would stop working like interacting with npcs via their talk(q) wouldnt work no matter how many times you clicked it or spammed Q or trying to use diplomacy wouldnt open the menus etc
Early game hunting is hard too many wolves and not enough rabbits/deers plus hunting description states that when killing animals you get meat but only deer gave me meat
I teamed up with 2 mates and we finished the 3 dungeons and we didnt win
Not sure if this is a bug but one of my friends was making apple pies and he said the first one he made went for 100 gold but then he started stacking em adn then sold them all in one go but just received 50 per apple pie
Fishing rod model was unclickable on the floor
If you dont loot the eggs that chicken spawns they start to multiply so fast they just keep spawning outside of the pen and start spreading so fast if even goes outside your base/through cliffs/trees
The fishing system is inefficient the bait is pricy(early game) and the chance to actually get a fish at the start is barely 25% and it wont be worth more than the price of the bait unless you re super lucky and get the 80 g fish
Reached exalted but currently there is no benefit right? besides the higher chance to get items from interacting with npcs i suggest you make it possible to ally with a certain town or faction (that doesnt have a market)

 

[Wark]

Alright Railto, thank you for the feedback and bug reports. Let's see:

On the templar Defend (E) doesnt work when you try to desactivate it via E

Thank you for that, I'll check the hotkeys.

You can farm tons of gold with a mule auto looting inside a chicken pen

Working as intended.

several times when selecting the backpack it starts to deselect anything or it would just plain woudlnt let you do anything

Were you trying to select the backpack and another unit? I put in triggers to automatically deselect your backpack if you select it in a group.

trying to use diplomacy wouldnt open the menus etc

Diplomacy isn't usable until you get a tier 4 hall. Or, did you mean you can't use it even then? I intend to change that later. It's a work in progress.

hunting description states that when killing animals you get meat but only deer gave me meat

Yea, only bears and deer give meat. I may make alpha wolves give meat to balance that out.
I may just remove that starting pickaxe and give players more starting gold for gear.

50 per apple pie

If I remember right, when you make apple pies it makes them 2 at a time.
I'll double check the recipe code and test it in game.

Fishing rod model was unclickable on the floor

The model is small and difficult to click, yes. I can pick it up by right-clicking the reel.
Luckily, the backpack auto-loot helps if you're stuck.

If you dont loot the eggs that chicken spawns they start to multiply so fast they just keep spawning outside of the pen and start spreading so fast if even goes outside your base/through cliffs/trees

That's hilarious, and is a known issue. I need to find a system to make items despawn after a time... any ideas?

The fishing system is inefficient

I've had mixed feedback on it. For one, if you sell inland fish to the island market, it's huge profits. Same with ocean fish to inland markets. Alternatively, cooking fish and selling roasted meat at any market gives a steady income.
On the other hand, without bait, it really is slow.
I may reduce the cost of the fishing rod, or increase the chances to 30% without bait and 60% with bait. RNG is a fickle lady.
I highly recommend buying a shovel to dig while fishing.

I teamed up with 2 mates and we finished the 3 dungeons and we didnt win
Reached exalted but currently there is no benefit right?

Right now, if you're exalted and another player defeats you, they lose about 500 reputation. This can mean they instantly become disliked by the locals.
I plan to add MUCH more to the reputation system, things like: player bounties, NPC guards helping defend your base, neutral guard upgrade systems, banditry, taking over towns, and NPC bounty hunters/assassins going after your leader if you're hated.
1 thing at a time, gotta finish the map and dungeons. Heroic Victory isn't a thing yet.

 

[Railto]

Alright Railto, thank you for the feedback and bug reports. Let's see:


Were you trying to select the backpack and another unit? I put in triggers to automatically deselect your backpack if you select it in a group.


Diplomacy isn't usable until you get a tier 4 hall. Or, did you mean you can't use it even then? I intend to change that later. It's a work in progress.


Yea, only bears and deer give meat. I may make alpha wolves give meat to balance that out.
I may just remove that starting pickaxe and give players more starting gold for gear.


That's hilarious, and is a known issue. I need to find a system to make items despawn after a time... any ideas?

I already had my T4 hall
And no i wasnt grouping units or anything just selecting one at a time
About the fish what my friend did was selling inland fish to the inland market and he also used the shovel to kill time while fishing but at the end he ended up planting seeds like my other friend cause he was far ahead in level/gold

 

[Wark]

Yea, I need to work on profession balances a bit. Diplomacy is still a work in progress. I'll be testing it fully and adding to it before the release date some time next month.

I encountered strange behavior with the backpack and selecting units before when I was refining the backpack system.
I haven't experienced any problems lately in single player tests. I'll have to try multiplayer again.

 

[Railto]

Will gladly test it as soon as i see a new version
BTW why is the undead the one with the highest int? just curious

 

[Wark]

I wanted each race to have minor stat differences, not just different techtrees. At high levels it doesn't make much of a difference.
I usually find myself putting some points into both strength and intel for any build.

EDIT:
Based on your testing and the opinions of others, fishing chances will now be 30/60/85% depending on bait and achievements, random animals will respawn after being killed, alpha wolves will now drop raw meat, barns will be limited to 2, and stackable items will despawn after 120 seconds

 

[Railto]

At high levels my friends just spammed barns to buy seeds for exp not even bothering to plant em while i was trying my hardest in hunting/dungeon hunting lol i was like level 18 and they were 25-30

 

[Peaces]

How the bonuses work in Trading? I tried trading like I always in FOTN but no bonus.

 

[EvilRO]

The bonuses work , buying from the island markets sells good at inland ones , furs and crops sell well in north(you cant grow crops in northern half of the map) , meat sells well in south , and so on , most of the bonuses work as intended as i've seen , however at the moment they are simple and not fluctuating , the bonus isn't lowering the more you sell something like supply and demand yet , but Wark is going to work on something like that later when he isn't so busy probably.

 

[Peaces]

The bonuses work , buying from the island markets sells good at inland ones , furs and crops sell well in north(you cant grow crops in northern half of the map) , meat sells well in south , and so on , most of the bonuses work as intended as i've seen , however at the moment they are simple and not fluctuating , the bonus isn't lowering the more you sell something like supply and demand yet , but Wark is going to work on something like that later when he isn't so busy probably.

Ah, thank you. I'll check on it.

 

[Daffa]

Daffa the Mage Review on Northrend Bound Details Spoilers Alert! "I dream playing FOTN maps with AI" Alright, to serious board now. I find the game interesting for starters. The towns are quite lively, having villagers to interact and traffic of villagers, guards and others moving around. I have quite a hard time figuring out where to sell goods I earned. Travelled around the town just to find that thing. Loved the way to earn resources. It's a good way to make the game enjoyable. Not much I can say, it's pleasing. Sadly I'm a solo person, so it doesn't suit me much. However, I have expectations of this map in the future I will wait for the Quests.

 

[Aliyama]

can not wait for this map ^^

 

[Daffa]

can not wait for this map ^^

You can get the Beta version at first post actually
Give it a try, it's fun, especially in multiplayer :>

 

[Wark]

How the bonuses work in Trading?

I made a different system from scratch. Basically, certain goods sell for more at other locations.
I will probably make a guide later in game for what sells best where.

Basically, if you unlock the "silver tongue" perk, you get discounts off buying goods.
Each major city (marked on the map) has a unique market that sells certain goods. Those are a supply, and those goods don't sell high there.
Sell those specific goods to markets in other towns.

For example:
1) Buy Mithril Ingots for 200 gold at the Droknar market (north town).
2) With "silver tongue," you get a 25% discount if reputation is high (ingots cost 150 gold).
3) Sell Mithril Ingots to Ashford (starting town) for double the sell price (100 gold sell price + 100 gold regional bonus)
4) Total profit: 50 gold per ingot.

The idea is if you keep a high reputation for the discount and invest in trading goods between towns, you can get a lot of gold very quickly.
The risk is that other players could steal the goods while they are in transit

EDIT:
I noticed later that EvilRO also replied, my bad.
@Daffa, I DO plan to add an AI! It'll be in the form of bandits, once I release the bandit techtree.
Also, I plan to design this game to be played solo. I still have much work to do for calamities, world bosses, dungeons and quests.

 

[Daffa]

The risk is that other players could steal the goods while they are in transit

Which is why we need to share some with them, so they would help us instead

 

[Railto]

Which is why we need to share some with them, so they would help us instead

Or you could go bandit and take em all for yourself

 

[Aliyama]

You can get the Beta version at first post actually
Give it a try, it's fun, especially in multiplayer :>

hoho ok, OTW WC 3

 

[Peaces]

I DO plan to add an AI! It'll be in the form of bandits, once I release the bandit techtree.
Also, I plan to design this game to be played solo.

YES, A solo game!
Anyways, can you solve the problem where: after loading a saved game the bonuses in market don't work anymore?

 

[Wark]

Anyways, can you solve the problem where: after loading a saved game the bonuses in market don't work anymore?

I have not done any testing for loading saved games, and I have no idea what would cause that honestly.
The triggers fire when you sell the specific item to the market. I'll put that on my bug list and see if I can resolve it later.

As for gameplay, I do intend the game to be playable as a co-op, solo, or multiplayer free-for-all game.

 

[TC_Firestar]

Can't wait to see the full feature complete release of this map

 

[monkeyboy15]

It's all about them wolves....

 

[Daffa]

The save load issue is more than likely timer related.

 

[Wark]

Yes, I had a couple complaints about that, but had no idea where to start. If it has something to do with timers,
can that be solved by disabling them or turning them on during loads?

 

[Daffa]

Loading has been an issue with Warcraft since like forever. Would be nice to give the quick fox attempt a shot though, but I can't be sure myself.

 

[Wark]

I may have found a fix for that problem in loading saved games.
It'll be implemented in the next version with finished terrain, difficulty scaling for
dungeons, dungeon reset, dungeon quests, improved hunting, longer day/night cycle
and new weapon types.

 

[Peaces]

I may have found a fix for that problem in loading saved games.
It'll be implemented in the next version with finished terrain, difficulty scaling for
dungeons, dungeon reset, dungeon quests, improved hunting, longer day/night cycle
and new weapon types.

Hurray! A probable fix for the loading saved games!

 

[Wark]

A probable fix for the loading saved games!

I released the fix with a couple other features in version 0.87.
Let me know if it works. When I tested it, I was able to load and reload saved games in single player.

 

[Peaces]

I released the fix with a couple other features in version 0.87.
Let me know if it works. When I tested it, I was able to load and reload saved games in single player.

It works!

 

[sunabokori]

keep up the good work guy,i await the single player features

 

[monkeyboy15]

Anyone else think wark should add a bow? For faster attack but less damage.

 

[Wark]

A regular bow?
I may make a bow variation with faster attack speed, but won't be upgradable. It may become a dungeon drop with the crossbow's skills.

 

[NudeCavemMan]

The size of the card exceeded 8 megabytes, and many people lost the ability to run it.
It may seem that this is not a problem at all - you just need to install the latest patch for warcraft. But many playgrounds use far from the last patch, and are not going to be updated.
I ask the author (if he wants the card not to die in obscurity) compress the textures \ models or do something else so that the card can work on all versions of the game.

 

[Wark]

The size of the card exceeded 8 megabytes, and many people lost the ability to run it.

Ah, so many people are still using older versions of the game?
Well, my goal is to make this as fun as possible. I can get rid of some models to reduce the file size.

EDIT:
Made a pre-release patch v0.9 with changes noted in the changelog on the first page.

DOUBLE EDIT:
And with that, the world design is complete! Right at the maximum doodad and destructible limit, too. I will be wrapping things up for the official release by August 25 (hopefully). Will keep everyone posted if I need extra time!

 

[robizeratul]

So I've been playing this for a couple of days. Don't know how much time passed since my last comment here... (did you see my last comment?)

Anyway, I was thinking hard on what stuff you could do. And here it is: make the map more interractive. Make stuff happen so that players need to team up and respond(if they want to).

1)Make a "living world" with the animals. Spawn a ton more wolves,rabbits etc. Make them eat and attack each other ,leveling up in the process. If you make this random, weird stuff my happen. After a couple of kills wolf packs could get huge and strong, attacking the player.

2)You could do the same thing with NPC. There are some NPCs that sell stuff and run arround, make them stay in one place. Maybe you see a hermit building a house. If you don't do anything, than he dies. If you go there, give him money, protect him, he will be friendly with you and give you bonuses.

3)gave players custom builders from the start. I think it's just simpler and makes more sense. Than you could do something like "special talent" so you could choose your 1 skill instead of getting a random one. Than you could chose "starting gear". This 3 options would make it much more fun to get into the game.


4)the last, and the most important one. Give people options to play the game as they like. You could make it a vote based system (that would work great! takes the info from all and makes an average) or just red chose everything.


So you start the game and you get this:

A)Difficulty
1)Custom Difficulty
2)Very easy
3)Easy
4)normal
5)hard
6)impossible

If you chose 1, you can make your own game:
B)Enemy density (how many wolves etc spawn)
C)Enemy strength
D)enemy temperament ( how aggressive monsters are. They attack you a lot, or only sometimes)
E)Starting resources
F)Event frquency

and so on.


If you ignore the first 3 things, and only implement the last, you could easily double, tipple or more the game play in the map. Because you play a completely different game on easy than on hard.

 

[Wark]

did you see my last comment?

Yup, I did. And you will notice now for the released map I definitely listened. Specifically: "classes" to choose at the start, and a system for quality over quantity - and vice versa in some cases.

Right now, I am working on the banditry options and alliance systems, and am also adding some experimental events.
I do plan to make the world much more alive.
As for difficulty, well, I am going to put that right into the game itself.
It'll be part of your strategy, and if you trigger certain events, the difficulty will ramp up dramatically.
Prepare beforehand, and start an event? Or hide, and try to avoid certain events?

Helping NPCs is a good suggestion for a future update, and I like the idea of wolves levelling up off rabbits. I've had that suggestion before in the past.

 

[robizeratul]

I'm excited seeing such a map being developed ( you can tell by my word count haha). I will say, thanks for still making this, and thanks for listening to suggestions from players! Until now you are doing an amazing job!

There's a lot to come, that's the feeling I get. The most important(in my opinion) is the choice. Give us as much choice as possible, let us play this game on our term. Some players will prefer some things, while others will play other things...in the end you will have a lot of happy players !

If you want my view on anything specific, just say it, I will be watching the progress of this map!

 

[Wark]

Version 1.1 out early, featuring:
- Bandit techtree, improved diplomacy system, "-cam" command and random events.
Let me know how this works!

Also, I am feeling ambitious. I want to continue developing and improving the map.
Anyone know how to get a project hosted?

 

[Daffa]

Try contacting the administration team, they will evaluate if it's worthy to get a host spotlight.

 

[robizeratul]

This map and mapmaker needs a BIG thumbs up! I had my eye on it for a while, but waited to play it again just to enjoy all the changes at once!

It's very rare for people to make so many improvements in such a short time. It is clear Wark put a lot of effort in making it better and better! A lot the suggestions that I and others made where considered and the good ones implemented. If he continues to work on this in a very short time it will become one of the "best" maps hosted on hive.


As for suggestions: A lot of stuff you added works great! Like I said, each version has a lot of improvements and the map is getting better and better. What I would do:

When game starts, add a "game mode" option for RED player. Give people the choices to play in different and interesting ways! The "classic" should be the game as it is. You could have "friendly" when everyone is allied and it's impossible to kill each other (maybe even bandits are friend). YOu could have a "dangerous wilderness" where a lot more wolfs etc spawn and so on. Maybe a fast build or fast economy mode

A lot of things you could do with this and compared to the work you done it's much easier to implement. Some options would be a fixed choice (like A or B or C) and others could be toggled on in the beggining (A is ON, B is OFF, C is ON).

This way people could create exactly what they want. Some would play it clasically, others would try crazy stuff. Whatever happens like the many different modes in Dota, Legion TD and others, it would increase the potential of the map drastically.

Good luck with this project! hope to see more and more!

 

[Wark]

I haven't visited this forum for a while, and thanks for the kind words @robizeratul !
I've definitely already implemented most of these suggestions in one way or another.
For game modes, I'm thinking of different ideas for this currently.

I want to open up this forum for more thoughts and ideas and really get this project going.
Right now it's reaching a good point, but I want it to sky rocket into something even better.

The only thing I've got planned for the future is some cinematics, and expanding the bottom ocean part to include another possible continent with update 1.29 comes out for WC3. Does anyone have any suggestions for what they want to see?

 

[robizeratul]

My opinions on game modes where kinda standard. I played this map and some other players didn't want to ally and started being annoying...it ruined my game for sure.

You can go crazy with game modes, however having the basics at first is what's important.

As for other suggestions, what I like more about these types of maps is the city building element. I think that could be improved a lot! The obvious thing is to add more stuff. The more complicated angle is to add more systems.

1)For example: make some buildings require workers. So if you need more of something, just add more units to the building. Give buildings that boost productivity/happiness, so you get more resources. This is also another thing that needs to be managed, so if you abuse your people they will leave or revolt.

2)You could also make the day/night cycle longer and change the way it works. In the day you should focus on economy, while in the night you need to defend yourself.

3)Change the map a bit (or at least offer a game mode like this) so there are some places where 2-3 players can live together. With a survival/hard mode it would make things really interesting. Needing to balance economy while trying not to die, being forced to work together...

However, and this is the most important point: you have been doing a great job, one of the most consistent and hardworking mapmakers around. So whatever your mapmaking process is, keep doing it )

 

[cleavinghammer]

Quickstart mode with a high(er) level hero.

 

[Wark]

Yup. With a specific bug fix and more tweaks to the AI, I will release a quickstart mode in version 1.66 after work today or tomorrow.

For other game modes, I am thinking about a Demon Invasion mode:
The Demon Gate will become vulnerable at night, but will constantly spawn demons.
These will probably vary from Fel Stalkers to Diabolists to Gargoyles or Doom Guards. (I have some other ideas for really nasty demons)
It'll keep doing this and spawn harder waves as time goes on, until the gate is destroyed.
In fact, this will be pretty easy to set up with what I've already got.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Building on that: an invasion that only starts if all towns are united under a single player/under allied players. Then a great big invasion begins, with the non-owning players participating on either side.

Also, a way to diplomatically convince towns to join you.

 

[Wark]

Right now, the town system is difficult to control without separate player slots. Making diplomatic options for separate towns would be nigh impossible.
However, when wc3 v1.29 comes out, I will abuse the hell out of those 24 player slots. It'll be waaaay easier for town alliances if each town is a separate player.
I also plan to expand the map's human player count to 12 maximum when that update comes.
I don't want to do this on modified editors since they're sometimes unreliable and unstable.

But when 24 player slots and larger maps do come out for the standard world editor, you can expect the above, more complex diplomacy systems, and an expanded ocean biome with a possible southern continent. For now, I will experiment with game modes, calamities, and miracles (from shrines).

As for calamities, how about some kind of plague with locusts which eat all organic material?
Or for a miracle, increased lightning strikes that smite enemies of the Townsfolk, like the wrath of the gods?
Would random earthquakes be a good or bad idea? I imagine randomly destroying player bases would be frustrating, but maybe not?
Some kind of plague where if any non-hero unit dies, they turn into a zombie?

 

[cleavinghammer]

Peaceful takeover: I was thinking more of a reputation-based system, alongside the "challenge the sheriff" option on the town's circle. Basically, if your global reputation is high enough, you can pay a large amount of resources, and the town becomes yours as if you'd conquered it (price increases with every town you own, possibly requires more reputation or reduces your reputation after a purchase). Alternately, have a special quest monster in a dungeon you need to beat before they join you (easier for hero mode players, while the other is easier for base builders), and you still need high rep to get it.

Locusts: Seems it'd hit farmers harder than most, maybe have them reduce max food the longer they live.

Wrath of Gods: How about one that automatically sets off whenever a player reaches -1000 rep, and the only non-townsfolk people it spares are those who reach +1000 rep?

Quake: If it only hits base locations, maybe base it off Death & Decay (with appropriate effects and shakycam) instead and ends at half damage. Annoying, but not "the Random Number God doesn't like your face"-level frustrating. If a purchasable calamity, maybe make it hit a random (occupied) base location.

Zombie Plague: Maybe, although you'd have to ensure it doesn't happen during a Blood Moon.


An idea concerning location pings: Have the camera snap to each location and ping it on the minimap, wait a few seconds, then snap to the next, ending back at the obelisk.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Could use another smuggler den and troll camp on the southern coast.

 

[Ardenaso]

Since this is a different thread, I'll just put here my suggestions for Warcraft 3 1.29+

• If you are Exalted, you automatically gain the town as a vassal (You still need to beat the sheriff/mayor to take the town).
• A "conquer" option where you will also control the town guards along the whole town and if it is a major city, it will stop the production of soldiers; lose 150 reputation in the process (You still lose the town/city when other players beat your sheriff/mayor)
  
• Demon Invasion chaos event: The Dark Wizard has successfully summoned demons, for the next night, Fel Stalker, Fel Orc Warlock and Apprentice Wizards as fodders accompanied by one Doom Guard and one Eredar Master from the Demon Gate and that rocky platform with triple column on the south-eastern forest, respectively. Since this event is slightly harder, Towers would not be disabled. Also, only one event can play. The most recent event will cancel the previously invoked chaos.
• The eastern section should be expanded to show coasts there. Kind of itchy to see uncharted non-snow forests unless its a mountain range.
• More islands at the south and an additional continent with a major city.
• Goblin race that has upgrades to the shredder and zeppelins. Good air, poor military and relies on tactics like mines and traps.
• Ogre race to match bandit ogres. No air, strong and bulky military with high food costs.
• Incentive reward for killing Leviathan: One additional patrolling ship and One additional Frigate from Sanctum Cay and Port Sledge
• Unique paths!

• Crusader Path: Requires to defeat some evil thingy and present it to some priest NPC at Droknar. Instantly becomes Exalted and gains access to 8 unique heroes as well as their traits. However, only 1 additional hero than normal, no military and only +10% experience bonus.
• Vampire Path: Requires to speak to a graveyard keeper around Ashford, then to "talk" to some cultists from all minor towns and one of the major cities and finally submitting yourself to the queen's castle. Instantly becomes Hated and becomes a pseudo-bandit path with some good air units. Also becomes allied to Vampire Forces summoned in the Blood Moon. However, vampire-type units will die during the day and if Vampire Queen dies, you and all your units will be removed entirely and you are defeated.
• Imperial Path: Requires to be Admired and then do some sort of quest like defeat a corrupt general and his loyalists and take his place. Gains access to 3 unique heroes. Very good diversified human, orc and high-elven military but no air units and no spellcasters. The choice to become a benevolent Exalted or a Hated tyrant is up to the player.
• Pirate Path: Requires what Bandit Path requires. Instantly becomes Hated and gains access to good pirates, cryomancers and hydromancers but no air. Also becomes allied to the wandering Pirate Corvettes. Incentive for defeating Seafarer's Rest boss, you will capture the whole dungeon and it will become your main/backup theater of operations.