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[Miscellanous / Other] Northrend Bound: v1.84 Open Source

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Wark, Apr 13, 2017.

  1. EvilRO

    EvilRO

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    I like what you have done to the terrain until now , the right down quarter looks very well made and blends well with the map , its a pretty good start.

    I found a little visual bug or so , the damage and armor upgrades from the blacksmith work on the dwarves and raise their armor and damage , but it shows still tier 0 , it doesn't really bother or ruin anything i just wanted to point that out.

    About the map size and base building , the thing is while having a larger map some building sizes are much bigger than in the old Fotn , what was great about the old Fotn is that the base spots had strategic value , were rather small or medium compared to the ones i see in your map. A small or big base shouldnt reward or punish you just by not allowing you to raise all your buildings , that's just stupid . I know i give many refferences to the old Fotn now but the great thing it had about base building was that it allowed you to make most of your buildings while leaving a little space for customisation , it was about hmm where should i place those walls and towers not if i can place my barracks inside my base or other crucial stuff . The last thing about bases is that if they are too big or require to much space other players will simply collide and enter in conflict too soon for no good reason and not only that but your map will overall suffer , the more space bases take the less space you have on the rest of the map to make great environments (which are not needed but it will feel like an empty map without a soul if most of it is to be filled by players and buildings that will not be that used) , spots for quests ,events ,bosses , lore etc. So i suggest to make some structures smaller , as they are needlesly large at the moment , like making a 6x6 or 5x5 into 5x6 or a 4x5 at least , just a size smaller .

    About the sea , its taking as much space as it is needed now , leave the size like that . An advice that i can give is to make 1 or 2 big islands that come from the bottom of the map , this way you will give the illusion of bigger islands while taking less space , giving freedom to make something else with that bonus space you just got. You could also make an estuary (you kinda did i guess with the mid river), you know to connect 1 large river to the center or slightly below the center of the map with the sea, which could be an important economical point for players to battle for and take control of it and the resources it has , a special kind of sweet-water fish? or better lets make it a sulfur deposit . or the trading route itself. If you wish you could make another 1 or so but smaller so you could have variety and give people choices to make.

    The north is a broken kingdom and this is the key point of this map right? Why dont we try to draw that lore a little and shape it better right?
    The main kingdoms/factions have been thrown into chaos , there have been some events that caused them to become unstable :
    1. The orc tribes have been reduced to a bunch of thieves and pillagers after the last winter has halved their numbers , the incursions of the orcs had become necessary for the survival of the orcs. Can they be reasoned with? ( you can link the cause of the winter and other events with the Winter/Lunar fox , a spirit boss with frosty abilities , or you can make it an event , you decide)
    2. Calamity has struck upon the resilient dwarves of the mountains as the gold disease/plague launched them into a civil war.
    3. Once the rulers of the pristine forests of these lands have been hunted down to extinction by the greed of other races and the advancement of Alchemy.
    4.Humans - the mising link of the puzzle. Will they bring order to the north or ...


    What do you think about a trading system where every minute or two a trading caravan with some gold 100-300 and a resource specific to the city it came from spawns and goes on the route the city to give income?
    Making some villages (some race specific some not)that can be conquered or managed or checkpoints here and there could give the game some sense of worth and fulfillment , also some advantages as controlling that is not just a point in the trading system and a scouting zone but could be worth some natural resources.

    I thought about that and you probably already had something planned for this , but about the factions the orcs,dwarves,humans,elves,undead. When you add them later , you should upgrade the diplomacy system as it will later prove rather rusty , just talking at the beggining seems fine, but how should just talking bring you to the status of adored or saviour of said faction? it doesn't make sense . How about ranking that diplomacy from -1000 to 1000 in quarters of 250. The way to go beyond tolerated at 250 or well-known at 500 should be by becoming active in the faction's problems and aiding them directly from 750 (worthy ally) to 1000(hero/saviour) by receving special quests that are faction related and have great effect on the whole world/map and the other factions , by that i mean the respective faction grows in strenght and may even reign supreme.
    It would be nice if depending on your relationships factions react differently (more than the bonus of random "gifts" at the moment ) for example if you worked your way up to 250 points you could get acces to some unique faction only items such as a banner or a signet with an aura? from 500 you could also hire some special troops from the faction. As of going negative if you are -250 you can't ally that faction or trade with it , from -500 to more you will get raided/attacked by your enemy faction with small numbers, the numbers of the attackers growing with -750 and -1000 being the moment you become a Nemesis and an actual threat to the faction by being close to annihilating it or reducing it to ruin.

    Adding events/quests/adventures similar to guild wars 2 , when every once in a while for example a town is attacked by either bandits and if you are nearby you will have to choose if you will participate , be neutral or even side with the bandits to loot whatever you can (if you kill at least a bandit in the mission or deal some damage you are considered to have helped/participated). Escorting a caravan from one point to another safely while facing the various encounters and troubles on the road. Defending a strategic point against a sieging faction for a minute or two. and more but we will get into that later.
    This is everything that i could type at the moment ,this is kind of a sample as there is more complex stuff to add but i want to know what you think about that. Would you like to play a game sometime?
     
  2. Wark

    Wark

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    I do like the idea of trade routes going inland from sea, and I am definitely going to widen rivers for such.

    I fully intend to spawn packhorses in every town that hold a specific good in their inventory (possibly to sell?) and travel between towns.

    Now, this brings it to why there is that reputation system, what it is, and what the "old kingdom" is.
    The "townsfolk" are meant to be denizens of the shattered kingdom, and that reputation system is your "standing" with them. They are looking for a new leader.
    Alignment is also a morality meter (think dungeons and dragons: good, neutral, evil, chaotic, lawful).
    I want players to have a choice to harass the neutral faction and be a tyrant, or to be a righteous leader.
    Right now, it's as follows:
    - use any espionage technique from the spy or thief: -10 reputation
    - use the item "Timmy's Leg": -20 reputation and nearby guards attack you
    - murder a "townsfolk": -50 reputation
    - talk to a "townsfolk": +5 reputation
    - offer tribute to "townsfolk": +250 reputation

    I plan to add a lot more options to this. Specifically: what you can do to help out local areas, control specific towns (gain control of guard towers and guards), and definitely quest related things as you mentioned.

    Now, if you have -500 reputation and under (hated), all towns become hostile to you (you murdered a bunch of their dudes). Players killing "hated" players gain reputation.
    If you have -250 reputation (despised) and below, you get no trade discounts from the "silver tongue" achievement.
    Above +300 reputation (admired), villagers start giving you useful items when you talk to them, and you can use more diplomacy options when you are human. If you are defeated, the conquering player loses reputation.
    Above +700 reputation, if they are conquered, the conquering player loses a lot more reputation.

    It's simple right now, but there are benefits and drawbacks to killing townsfolk:
    - Obvious drawback, towns attack you when you try to sell goods and are "hated". No discounts when "despised."
    - The benefits, however: banditry and quick gold. Townsfolk drop unique items and gold. I also plan to make a "bandit" techtree to support this later. Take note: banditry is doable now, but I highly recommend getting stuff to help you go invisible to sell goods in town.

    And the big question: what happened to the old kingdom? Well, I have something big planned for that. The map itself will tell the story, and I don't want to spoil it ;P
    This latest update has NPCs that hint about what happened in the kingdom. Much more will come.

    Dynamic events and quests will be a thing. I want this map to be alive, and this will also play into the alignment/reputation system.

    This latest update addresses those issues. I've finished a bunch more terrain, and personally tested each base location to make sure you can build an entire base there with dwarves, elves, humans, orcs and undead.
    I've also added a backpack system, and improved other systems that were bugged or inefficient (hunting comes to mind...)
    Remember m8: you can select your race on the map lobby before you click "Start Game"
     
  3. EvilRO

    EvilRO

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    Personally the ranking system seems rather easy to me and still at the beggining , maybe giving it 1 more rank up to 400 or 500? and also giving hp to the unit 25-75/100hp.
    How about the tech trees? For humans is there going to be a templar or religious order that gives acces to a few tanky heal oriented troops? Or a pirate tech tree which focuses on ranged gunpowder units that ocasionally throw bombs and swashbucklers with some crit and evasion chance?
    Maybe its just me but the silver tongue kinda doesnt work, it says talk to 40 people or so , i talked to more and seem not to receive it , this may be the same for other traits im not sure as i may or may not have done the requirements (cuz i never received the trait :( ) so could you take a short look on that?
    Is there going to be similar hero skills similar to the old Fotn? Such as the ones in Werewolf Transylvania where depending on the way you chose to play you will unlock 1 or a few skills that may prove useful later , however it will be hard to unlock all of them or will take time.
    After the update i played it once noticed that as a human i could only pick the human race :? is it a bug or is it intended. Also i can't play it anymore after that first time , loading gets stuck in the middle then w3 not responding but it may be just me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  4. Wark

    Wark

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    A rank-up system that gives hp to individual units is impossible. I tried it, and there's something hard-coded with the +hp abilities for items.
    Branching techtrees could be a thing, I like that idea. I'll have to figure something out.

    It works still, yes. However, those 40 villagers do not include town guards. I may change that.

    Nope, that's what the weapon skill system's all about.
    I made achievements be like boosts to whatever economic skill or trade you focus on, rather than something that unlocks gimmicky skills.
    You hunt a lot? Bonus hides!
    You fish a lot? Greater chance to catch fish!
    That sort of thing. It takes a long time to unlock one, which encourages players to focus on a trade to get a boost.

    I have not tested anything with load saves. It's a saved game you're having problems with, right? And, was it working before?
     
  5. Wark

    Wark

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    I've taken a lot of suggestions to heart and have advanced the map's terrain further.
    (This update also serves as a forum bump.)

    The backpack system's improved, base locations are more than large enough to hold a full racial town,
    and there's plans for game modes with more diplomatic options.
    I'm really going to have to finish a tutorial for all this... hmm

    Next update will be the map's release out of beta, coming sometime between the end of July and the middle of August.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
  6. Daffa the Mage

    Daffa the Mage

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    Bookmarked.
     
  7. EvilRO

    EvilRO

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    Tried for first time the map in multiplayer with a bot , the problem is you can't change the races from random so everyone was dwarves, after the beta is done , I guess you will make the dungeons have some repeatability? or some monsters inside respawn after the night is over. I thought that it would be great if you put difficulty levels on dungeons, like normal dungeon and after you finish it you can pick Heroic difficulty , making it 1.5x harder or something like that , because I made lvl 50 on hero and soloed the dungeon quite easily (I know I'm strange), or make the difficulty/dungeon scale with the number of players ?inside? or simply a requirement of 2-3 players. Depends on what you have in mind.
    One guy out of nostalgia asked if there is gonna be the quiz from FOTN , but i was wondering if later you have in mind to add a mini game not necessarily a quiz. Everyone could help with some suggestions to make it simple but fun.
    Minor thing: Glad that animals respawn , but it's a little strange they spawn the same animal in the same place every time don't you think? I don't know how hard it is and i hope it doesn't bother you ,but could you make some of those spawns a little bit randomized? (To make it rather similar to Werewolf Transylvania where animals spawn "randomly" and wander or give a similar feeling) For example 15% for bear , 25% Wolf ,30% Deer and 30% rabbit.
    Possible Bugs: Undead heroes dont revive instantly ,but they should ,right? at the hero altar.If not im sry.
    Was playing undead when i noticed that but the first hero and also the alchemist (i was playing that when i noticed ,others seemed to work fine, i'll tell you if i notice anything else) but the agility wasnt giving any evasion or it didnt work vs the "neutral" town. I had quite a lot of agi around 70 to test it well , and i wasnt unlucky or anything , so I'm not sure if i somehow bugged it once or thats how it is from the start.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  8. Xeryxoz

    Xeryxoz

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    I heard you were making a reworked FOTN (pretty much), and as it so happens I would like to give you something that may or may not help you

    Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet (The map was based on an anime called Spice and Wolf - this is the anime's map)
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  9. Wark

    Wark

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    I most definitely plan to not only make dungeons reset at night, but also make them spawn higher level monsters based on the hero's level.
    The difficulty will increase based on the first hero to enter that dungeon at night.

    I did not like the quiz thing in FotN because I felt it made things unfair for new players, and that periodic pop-up text was annoying. Instead, I will be doing something else for quick gains... it involves an arena somewhere on the map. There will also be, ahem. "Road Signs" of equal opportunity, and maybe a couple bridge trolls.

    Right now I am using a workable, basic system for animal respawns. My initial idea is that certain animals are available in certain areas. I may make it so rabbit and wolves spawn in the south, where bears, deer and wolves spawn in the north.

    Yea, I forgot to give the undead altar the ability to instantly revive things. That's a bug. I'll also retest Agility. As it is now, it gives 0.5% evasion per point in Agility.

    Edit: Agility is working as intended, even against neutral guards. A lvl 50 Apothecary with all point in Agility has about a 27% chance to evade.


    The game development's at too late a stage unfortunately to change the terrain and layout.
    This game's going to have a different story to it, and I promise it will be engaging.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  10. BoleSrbin023

    BoleSrbin023

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    I am looking forward to this map!And I hope that it will prove to be great success!
     
  11. BoleSrbin023

    BoleSrbin023

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    I have an idea.You should make cities and villages conquerable.That would be huge improvment compared to FotN.And if you could use some help with creating villages and towns I would be glad to help.
     
  12. BoleSrbin023

    BoleSrbin023

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    And I would suggest to first finnish terrain and then do everything else.
     
  13. Railto

    Railto

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    On the templar Defend (E) doesnt work when you try to desactivate it via E
    You can spam several barns and just buy items to get a lot of exp easily perhaps you should add the "trading goods" category and just selling that to a market should give exp to make trading fair? as it didnt give exp in fotn though it gave insane amounts of gold
    You can farm tons of gold with a mule auto looting inside a chicken pen
    cant unlock the ability to plant faster even if you fulfil the requirements
    several times when selecting the backpack it starts to deselect anything or it would just plain woudlnt let you do anything like move units and stuff or things would stop working like interacting with npcs via their talk(q) wouldnt work no matter how many times you clicked it or spammed Q or trying to use diplomacy wouldnt open the menus etc
    Early game hunting is hard too many wolves and not enough rabbits/deers plus hunting description states that when killing animals you get meat but only deer gave me meat
    I teamed up with 2 mates and we finished the 3 dungeons and we didnt win
    Not sure if this is a bug but one of my friends was making apple pies and he said the first one he made went for 100 gold but then he started stacking em adn then sold them all in one go but just received 50 per apple pie
    Fishing rod model was unclickable on the floor
    If you dont loot the eggs that chicken spawns they start to multiply so fast they just keep spawning outside of the pen and start spreading so fast if even goes outside your base/through cliffs/trees
    The fishing system is inefficient the bait is pricy(early game) and the chance to actually get a fish at the start is barely 25% and it wont be worth more than the price of the bait unless you re super lucky and get the 80 g fish
    Reached exalted but currently there is no benefit right? besides the higher chance to get items from interacting with npcs i suggest you make it possible to ally with a certain town or faction (that doesnt have a market)
     
  14. Wark

    Wark

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    Alright Railto, thank you for the feedback and bug reports. Let's see:


    Thank you for that, I'll check the hotkeys.

    Working as intended.

    Were you trying to select the backpack and another unit? I put in triggers to automatically deselect your backpack if you select it in a group.

    Diplomacy isn't usable until you get a tier 4 hall. Or, did you mean you can't use it even then? I intend to change that later. It's a work in progress.

    Yea, only bears and deer give meat. I may make alpha wolves give meat to balance that out.
    I may just remove that starting pickaxe and give players more starting gold for gear.

    If I remember right, when you make apple pies it makes them 2 at a time.
    I'll double check the recipe code and test it in game.


    The model is small and difficult to click, yes. I can pick it up by right-clicking the reel.
    Luckily, the backpack auto-loot helps if you're stuck.

    That's hilarious, and is a known issue. I need to find a system to make items despawn after a time... any ideas?

    I've had mixed feedback on it. For one, if you sell inland fish to the island market, it's huge profits. Same with ocean fish to inland markets. Alternatively, cooking fish and selling roasted meat at any market gives a steady income.
    On the other hand, without bait, it really is slow.
    I may reduce the cost of the fishing rod, or increase the chances to 30% without bait and 60% with bait. RNG is a fickle lady.
    I highly recommend buying a shovel to dig while fishing.

    Right now, if you're exalted and another player defeats you, they lose about 500 reputation. This can mean they instantly become disliked by the locals.
    I plan to add MUCH more to the reputation system, things like: player bounties, NPC guards helping defend your base, neutral guard upgrade systems, banditry, taking over towns, and NPC bounty hunters/assassins going after your leader if you're hated.
    1 thing at a time, gotta finish the map and dungeons. Heroic Victory isn't a thing yet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  15. Railto

    Railto

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    I already had my T4 hall
    And no i wasnt grouping units or anything just selecting one at a time
    About the fish what my friend did was selling inland fish to the inland market and he also used the shovel to kill time while fishing but at the end he ended up planting seeds like my other friend cause he was far ahead in level/gold
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  16. Wark

    Wark

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    Yea, I need to work on profession balances a bit. Diplomacy is still a work in progress. I'll be testing it fully and adding to it before the release date some time next month.

    I encountered strange behavior with the backpack and selecting units before when I was refining the backpack system.
    I haven't experienced any problems lately in single player tests. I'll have to try multiplayer again.
     
  17. Railto

    Railto

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    Will gladly test it as soon as i see a new version
    BTW why is the undead the one with the highest int? just curious
     
  18. Wark

    Wark

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    I wanted each race to have minor stat differences, not just different techtrees. At high levels it doesn't make much of a difference.
    I usually find myself putting some points into both strength and intel for any build.

    EDIT:
    Based on your testing and the opinions of others, fishing chances will now be 30/60/85% depending on bait and achievements, random animals will respawn after being killed, alpha wolves will now drop raw meat, barns will be limited to 2, and stackable items will despawn after 120 seconds
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  19. Railto

    Railto

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    At high levels my friends just spammed barns to buy seeds for exp not even bothering to plant em while i was trying my hardest in hunting/dungeon hunting lol i was like level 18 and they were 25-30
     
  20. Unkn0wN_Merchant

    Unkn0wN_Merchant

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    How the bonuses work in Trading? I tried trading like I always in FOTN but no bonus.