New ported models section

[FeelsGoodMan]

So as we have a new section for ports or rips if you'd call them that it poses the question of rules and guidelines around the new section. I see no announcement about this, but some more information would be nice.

It says we might see rips from wow and other games. How does this go with copyright issues and such? I can understand Blizzard models to an extent, but that is, in essence, also hosting models that nobody here has any rights to.

Me and other people have uploaded some rips there already, and a handful of them went to substandard (which I can understand). It still poses the question of what is an approved rip? (if they will be approved at all). If they won't be approved at all that's fine, but then they should at least be left at pending so they're not invisible, because why would there be an empty section?

 

[deepstrasz]

I guess, for non-Blizzard game rips, we go by the fair use policy, so that if the owners demand the resources be taken down, they will be.

We're discussing the matter on whether there should be an approved section for Ported resources or not.
Substandard is not invisible, it's just one tiny click to the right but you might miss the button since its visibility is rather low as Awaiting Update and the other subsections.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Substandard is not invisible, it's just one tiny click to the right but you might miss the button since its visibility is rather low as Awaiting Update and the other subsections.

I know but it seems rather unintuitive to have a section where you need to click the substandard button to see any resources at all

 

[deepstrasz]

I know but it seems rather unintuitive to have a section where you need to click the substandard button to see any resources at all

Well, if the Approved status falls, then Substandard will take its place. Anyways, it'll remain a psychological thing, seeing the Substandard name and logo instead of Approved.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Well, if the Approved status falls, then Substandard will take its place. Anyways, it'll remain a psychological thing, seeing the Substandard name and logo instead of Approved.

I mean in the event where all rips are going to be considered substandard.

 

[deepstrasz]

I mean in the event where all rips are going to be considered substandard.

Well, that's what I'm saying. If that will be the case, then there should be no Approved section and Substandard will take its place. The latter should overwrite the first. That means, Substandard will not be accessed like it is now but like Approved, directly via the big Ported title.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Well, that's what I'm saying. If that will be the case, then there should be no Approved section and Substandard will take its place. The latter should overwrite the first. That means, Substandard will not be accessed like it is now but like Approved, directly via the big Ported title.

Yeah having it that way would be fine.

 

[Ralle]

It says we might see rips from wow and other games. How does this go with copyright issues and such? I can understand Blizzard models to an extent, but that is, in essence, also hosting models that nobody here has any rights to.

In my opinion most model ports are fair use. Nobody is making any money off them or giving people less reason to play the game they came from. Come on, your maps are not that good. But if we get a DMCA, we'll remove them.

So we support ports. Approved is for a port that works. Substandard is for a port that does not work. They're not supposed to be substandard if there's nothing wrong with them. But all of this is very new and we're still fleshing out the moderation, so don't hesitate to ask questions and/or include me.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Come on, your maps are not that good.

I'm just asking questions, not saying my maps are good or bad, or that it reduces anyone's gaming experience when they play the game where the model originated from

But if we get a DMCA, we'll remove them.

Ok gotcha. Let's hope it will all be smooth sailing without any take down inquiries then.

 

[Strydhaizer]

I used to redistribute game rips back in the day in ChaosRealm from chinese and russian sites, dunno if I should go back to that ol' habit lol. Nowadays I seem to prefer modding with what's made for Warcraft III not what's made for other games that made usable for the game.

This new section could have been useful 8 years ago, when most of the community were very passionate at ripping stuffs. But hey, I'm glad HIVE's taking a risk now.

There are rips uploaded in the maps section that (I think) deserves to be transfered in the new section, Kobas' and Nikikin's rips for example.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Nowadays I seem to prefer modding with what's made for Warcraft III not what's made for other games that made usable for this game.

But the fun part is making Warcraft III not look like Warcraft III anymore

 

[deepstrasz]

But the fun part is making Warcraft III not look like Warcraft III anymore

Yeah, we always wanted Warcraft III to be WoW.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

Yeah, we always wanted Warcraft III to be WoW.

I am sure there are some who wanted/wants that, yeah. Or else there wouldn't be X amount of wow projects. Just a shame that the most promising ones aren't in development anymore.

 

[Ralle]

A question on whether redistributing someone else's rips is allowed. The rip isn't really your rip in my opinion, it is whoever made the game it comes from. So my answer would be this. Give credit where you can, and only submit a model you can actually maintain if a bug shows up.

 

[loktar]

Agreed, giving credit for whoever ripped it and made it WC3-ready is always nice, but aside from that it's someone else's work so they have no claim over it.

 

[Razorclaw_X]

A question on whether redistributing someone else's rips is allowed. The rip isn't really your rip in my opinion, it is whoever made the game it comes from. So my answer would be this. Give credit where you can, and only submit a model you can actually maintain if a bug shows up.

You can't claim 'ownership' of a game rip by its very nature no matter how much you change it to be 'yours'. It's still a game rip in the end.

Of course, there's also this thing about just 'how' you do it because everyone does a game rip differently. You look at some things often enough that almost serves as your 'fingerprint' so to speak if you cared that deeply about it.

 

[HateCrew]

You can't claim 'ownership' of a game rip by its very nature no matter how much you change it to be 'yours'. It's still a game rip in the end.

By that logic good 80% of custom wc3 models here are rips, and people who "made them" should not be credited/take ownership of the model

 

[YourArthas]

By that logic good 80% of custom wc3 models here are rips, and people who "made them" should not be credited/take ownership of the model

^ this, I don't think it is fair to repost someone elses work no matter what, otherwise it is same as posting someones custom model that is made out of wc3 parts as 'it is blizzards so I can post it bla bla bla', a model 'edit' (80% of hive's model approved models section) that has got fair amount of work from a rip or wc3 parts is a shared IP even sketchfab sees it like that.

 

[deepstrasz]

^ this, I don't think it is fair to repost someone elses work no matter what, otherwise it is same as posting someones custom model that is made out of wc3 parts as 'it is blizzards so I can post it bla bla bla', a model 'edit' (80% of hive's model approved models section) that has got fair amount of work from a rip or wc3 parts is a shared IP even sketchfab sees it like that.

Well, if someone properly/heavily edited those models, I guess they can ask for their edited resources to be taken down if they don't want them uploaded.

 

[tulee]

One of the main issues with allowing people to upload other people's rips is this section will become completely chaotic. Rules for only uploading resources you had a hand in making is not just about ownership, but it prevents a huge spam of resources all being uploaded.

Normally, people won't upload the same resource multiple times in other sections, not because they check the section to see if something has already been uploaded, but because by only being able to upload their own stuff, that automatically prevents spam of the same resource. It won't be the case for this section then. This issue won't be visible early on, but once masses of stuff are uploaded, then it will became prominent.

Can I also ask, if there will be a special resource reviewer for this section, or if normal model resource reviewers will moderate this section?

This section definitely has good potential, especially when I see stuff like the porting of Whitemane by Razorclaw, but I feel like it needs to be controlled/ have strict rules + regulations about who uploads the resources in order to fully flourish.

This section might allow hiveworkshop to completely dominate the Wc3 resources-related sphere on the internet, since getting model rips was probably one of the few reasons in the past that people would visit other Wc3 websites.

 

[deepstrasz]

Normally, people won't upload the same resource multiple times in other sections, not because they check the section to see if something has already been uploaded, but because by only being able to upload their own stuff, that automatically prevents spam of the same resource. It won't be the case for this section then. This issue won't be visible early on, but once masses of stuff are uploaded, then it will became prominent.

Sadly, that's something that happens a lot with Maps. An example would be Green TD. Everybody thinks his edit is better or that different.
It's not only a risk but a reality, reviewers will have to go through, restricting reuploads and stuff unless there are obvious differences that make sense.

 

[loktar]

It's a good point, but I feel there's a difference between creative work/edits and technical work/edits.
Edited WC3 models have some added creative value which should be protected to an extent in the context of this site, while ports are just the original work with some technical work done to make it function in WC3.

 

[General Frank]

It's a good point, but I feel there's a difference between creative work/edits and technical work/edits.
Edited WC3 models have some added creative value which should be protected to an extent in the context of this site, while ports are just the original work with some technical work done to make it function in WC3.

This exactly.

 

[HateCrew]

still this is creative edit, and it should be put into ports category? it has "value", some person spent hours finding right stuff, tweaking meshes, editing animations, making new meshes.... it's not straight "port" but some stuff put together creativly to make a "unique" thing"
Chaos Rider image - Warcraft rebirth mod for Warcraft III: Frozen Throne
Footman image - Warcraft 3 - Reborn mod for Warcraft III: Frozen Throne
Peasant image - Warcraft 3 - Reborn mod for Warcraft III: Frozen Throne
Gnolls image - Warcraft 3 - Reborn mod for Warcraft III: Frozen Throne
Wind Rider image - Warcraft: Armies of Azeroth mod for StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void
Orc Shaman image - Warcraft: Armies of Azeroth mod for StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

 

[Archian]

I see no announcement about this, but some more information would be nice.

Expect the news to come soon.

 

[Power]

That would be great to have some news , because we don't even know how to upload the ported models yet , like 90% are not approved and i'm not sure what method you guys use to approve them . BTW. Looking forward to it , this is a huge step on bringing together all the different communities under a single flag , huge respects to the staff.

 

[Archian]

News article is up: New Resource Sections