It steals buffs only when it's set on auto-cast. You can cast it manually to dispel buffs from both friendly and enemy units.
Woah. TIL.
H said:
Anti-magic Shell (not to be confused with Anti-magic Shell (Magic Resistance)) makes the target unit immune to magic and also dispels buffs from it. You can use it on friendly units to protect them from being Slowed, Cursed, Crippled, Polymorphed, etc. and you can also use it on creeps or enemy units to prevent them from casting Bloodlust, Frost Armor, Inner Fire, Heal, etc. on themselves.
I had no idea. I guess it makes sense (otherwise, would it keep the existing buffs without touching them?), but I'm honestly not sure I've ever used it in-game. I know I would never have used it for that (not fast enough). Huh. Ok then.
H said:
Destroys the Wisp, dispelling all magical buffs and draining 50 mana from each unit in an area around the Wisp. Deals 225 damage to summoned units.
Oh sick. I did not know that either. Heck, that would make a sick Hero ability now that I think about it; max out all the values & call it a "Mana/Psychic Nuke" or something; "Target an AoE, draining all the mana of target units & killing all summoned units. Dispels all buffs too".
H said:
I don't know, but it'd be easy either way. I can also make an ability that heals/damages and trigger the dispel.
Yeah, I suppose. One thing I'm bad at, at this point, is thinking of using triggering at all; I have begun, more & more, to just sorta exclude it, but there are some good times to use it. Hm.
Is 'triggering dispel' as easy as "remove all buffs from [target unit]"? Or is there something else you have to do (like flash 'spell immunity' on & off of it)?
H said:
I know, but when I saw some of your ideas here and now that list I couldn't help but to think you're a mind reader.
Lol. Wait, did I 'mind-read' myself? Or you?
I'm jazzed you read my topic. It's still my one-true source of (public) info; one day I'll be updating it again, and whenever something big happens it'll happen there first.
H said:
I hope you finish it someday. Although my idea is more modest, it still requires a lot of work. *Sigh* I wish I had more free time.
Boy, I feel ya man. Thank you; I hope to finish someday as well. I think I am close; closer than I have ever been. It's hard to describe, but the feeling as you look at your techtree, the heroes/units/abilities/racial-themes, and feel to yourself "ah, ok, this looks ok/good/right". There's no such thing as "perfect", but we can get close to our vision of it.
Wait, what are you doing that's more modest than me?
H said:
I think I already have a map with the triggers somewhere in my Spells folder (that's getting very congested with things I'll never use).
ForFrigginSerious, mate. SMH.
H said:
Maybe I'll give my Nightcrawler hero an ability that works like that; I'd call it Smoke Cloud, Enveloping Shadows, Shadow Dance or something like that.
'Shadow Dance' is definitely the coolest of those 3 options. Unless there's a natural 'water/ocean' phenomenon that could explain it as well ("Inky Depths"?).
H said:
Looks like each race should have at least one mobile summon (that's not a ward).
Hum. Good point. (Now to decide whether to follow the precedent or don't & call it a "racial uniqueness", lol. See below).
H said:
I get what you're saying, but afaik Blizzard, Starfall, Rain of Fire and Flame Strike do have damage reduction vs Structures. (Data - Building Redution field), while Shockwave and Cluster Rockets don't.
Oh yeah, no I know. I'm sorry if my wording wasn't clear. Ignore the first parenthetical; that was examples of ones that do have Reduced Damage vs. Buildings.
H said:
I didn't want to overload you with information, but since you said you were interested, I posted everything (further down).
H said:
H said:
*looks at my previous posts in this thread*
Naw man, you'd have to do a lot more than that. ; P
H said:
Cool! I never even tried something like that.
Really? To be fair neither have I so I'm not sure if it'll work 100%, but I can't imagine why some wouldn't (like reducing armor or Stunning). It's basically the inverse of using building-affecting abilities on units.
H said:
That sounds like a great idea, but I'm not sure how would that work. Would the Living Wildfire be vulnerable or even selectable and should it be stationary or be able to move?
That's up to you, and up to Balance. But for me, my intention was that it be invulnerable, un-selectable, and mobile; basically a spell effect replicated with a summoning spell. The "fires" would have Permanent Immolation to deal damage (leave them with a 0-damage attack only so they hone in & move towards enemies). I don't want them destroyed, nor do I want the player to be able to move them; I just want it to organically move around & grow. Like a "Wildfire".
H said:
It's not bad, but in the demo campaign Blizz gave murlocs a cave home that was burning with fire and lava, so I planned his abilities to be more more lava-ish, not based on Sun rays/Solar power.
Eh. *files it away for his heroes*
H said:
Well, besides one upgrade that gives all organic ground units increased regeneration when they're in water, I don't think I really have any racially-themed abilities.
Ah, there, you are confusing my use of the word "Theme" with what I would consider "Role".
Read my post in this thread
(actually, the whole thread might not be a bad idea; lots of opposing viewpoints to consider on this subject). To save you time, the part your looking for can be found by Searching for "good question"; start there (but also consider reading the part starting at/Searching for "MCV").
Basically, "Theme" (or as I'm starting to call it: "Form") is all about the looks, the aesthetics, the presentation, the visuals. Models, icons, tooltips, lore; all that. "Role" (blah blah: "Function") is all about the mechanics, the style, the actual 'what-it-does'. I hold Form & Function to be the two primary elements of design, a 'core' or 'kernel' which fits every hero, unit, race... game... thing. More in the linked post.
~
What this means, in context, is that when I say "racially-Themed", I mean specifically 'Themed' or it's 'Form'; so you have a debuff that dispels & slows down enemies? Cool, for Trolls I'll call it "Voodoo Curse", but for Murlocs I'd call it "Grip of Tides" or something. Racially-Themed.
However, an ability that gives increased HP regen in water is more of a racial 'mechanic', which is "Role" (or 'Function'). You are right, you probably don't need an awful too many of those.
H said:
I have something like that (Slime Splash).
Great minds think alike.
H said:
Those two were a bit easier for me and I managed to come up with quite a few abilities for them, but I had to get rid of most of them so I wouldn't have too many abilities of the same type (e.g. unit-target or AoE) or too many abilities that have the same effect (e.g. slow). There are also some other factors (they can't all have an aura or a passive ability, since each of the 4 races has at least one hero whose abilities are all active).
Ah yes, good points.
Huh, never noticed that, but yeah. Blood Mage, Shadow Hunter, Lich, Warden. (Very interesting how all but one of them are the new TFT Heroes; further solidifies my proposition that TFT began a sort of "complexity creep" in Warcraft. I wonder how intentional it was?...)
H said:
Yes, but nothing is final yet, so she doesn't have to be the supportive one.
Cool. Something to consider.
H said:
I wanted to use what I have and that demo campaign is the only part of Warcraft's history where Murlocs aren't depicted as just stupid creeps. They even showed the ability to speak and their society was highly organized compared to other murlocs, with buildings that trained fighting units, heroes and attack tower buildings.
That's pretty neat. Yeah, I suppose that is the one & only point for them, and it's cool that you use that as inspiration/motivation. "Make Murlocs Great Again"!
H said:
However, I have to agree; that demo campaign is full of strange things and his design is pretty illogical. Murlocs even used Siege Golems in their army, but I scrapped them since that didn't make any sense to me.
You're right. I just thought, fire seems destructive and they gave him Rain of Fire, so he should be a siege caster. I probably need to consider all the other hero's abilities before defining his role, so I don't end up with heroes that have overlapping roles.
Yeah, that's really my only point there. It's good to take inspiration, but one can be too dogmatic in ones' approach (I'm one to talk, lol). To inspiration, specifically.
H said:
And about the "Sea Witch", I think her abilities should be more focused on the "Sea" part and not so much on curses/debuffs since she's not a typical Witch/Hag. (She was like a goddess that murlocs worshiped and the Sorcerer referred to her as "the exalted one").
That's a really good point; the Name of a thing can be simultaneously "Really Important" and "Not Important At All", and I regularly embrace that dichotomy.
In this case, "Tide Hag"
(I do think that is the definitive version of "Sea Witch" by the way, so I'll just call her that) is a name, and really more of the name given to her by others, not herself (or even her Murloc buddies). She might be called "Ocean Spirit" or "Sea Specter" or something, or maybe go with that "Exalted One" stuff (or a combo: "Exalted Phantom"? "Special Shade"? <-lol). Good thoughts.
H said:
Hmm... I haven't thought about that, but now that you mention it, I don't need to make him that similar to the Sorceror from the demo campaign. Not all of his abilities need to be fire-based and it would make a lot more sense. This opens up many possibilities.
Absolutely, glad I could help. That's kinda my speciality; look for the openings & see what you can explore.
So do you have any preferences, then, if you move away from the 'fire/lava' thing?
H said:
I don't know how could I make that without making it look like a copy of Dragonhawk Rider's Cloud.
Well, it would be... But on the ground & only for units, right?
H said:
Well, I don't like knockbacks/pushing/dragging/sliding, since none of the standard abilities have it.
Hmm... I don't know that I noticed that. I would classify that all as "mobility", and Warcraft does do some mobility stuff, like Mass Teleport & Waygates... Ah dannae. I do think knockback is a little much, but I've seen it done well. And as for otherwise moving units around... One of my Trolls does that (sorta), and a custom hero I made (designed as if to fit in the Neutral Tavern) for the recent Hero Contest actually specialized in 'moving units around' (one ability would push all enemies in an AoE towards a single point, damaging them; the other was a summonable 'nydus canal' from Starcraft for allies, basically).
Hm.
H said:
It's basically the same as Pulverize and I don't know what unit could have it.
Yes, but it's a *hero*-version of Pulverize, which would be an example of "technically unique".
H said:
The hardest part would be finding a fitting Stagnant Water model.
Does that mean you like it?
Eh, you're a modeler. You'll manage. : ) More likely, a simple Request thread would help.
H said:
Yeah, but it's indestructible (Fountain), and heals more. Personally, I could see it as a Hero ability; but only with some requisite addition to the healing (like a buffing aura, or regenerating mana too, or something).
H said:
Those would be cool for a Sea Giant, but I don't have any of them in this map.
Oh nonsense, they'd work fine for Murlocs too. And if the name bugs you, just change it; ^What's In A Name? : ) How about "Swamp Strike" & "Rain Dance"? Or "Water Hammer" & "Croak of Courage"?
H said:
I never played tomoraider's maps, but they look like campaigns and I'm making an altered melee map.
Well, he made campaigns, yes, but featuring custom factions of his own design. He made Forsaken (!) & Blood Elves AFAIK. The factions appeared relatively well-designed, though not entirely custom/up to code.
H said:
Could Finger of Death (Archimonde) be a decent ultimate if it had a mana cost?
Are you sure you only have one account? ; P I responded to this very question elsewhere.
H said:
Is an aura that gives magic resistance a good or a bad idea?
Hm, neat idea. I'm sure it's a good idea; the question is, if it's balanced. : ) That, I'm not sure. I feel like it's relatively strong, though. Ultimate-worthy? Or is an aura-Ultimate too boring?
H said:
Every race (with the exception of Undead; they only have DK) has a few mounted ground units:
Humans - Archmage and Knights
Orcs - Far Seer, Raiders and Kodo Beasts
Night Elves - Priestess of the Moon and Huntresses (Maybe also Keeper of the Grove and Dryads, since they're half deer)
Undead - Death Knight
Mounted units usually have higher movement speed, but since I don't have any riders, I wonder how I'll justify the unusual movement speed variations. Do I really need mounted units? Besides slow-moving Sea Turtles, I have no idea what other amphibious creatures could murlocs ride.
I'm not sure how I feel about Murlocs riding anything, to be honest (and I've seen your mounted Scavenger Drake). One of the few things I can envision is the whole "swaying atop a Turtle", perhaps on a throne/palanquin/houdah; and that's not particularly fast. It bespeaks a certain primitive understanding of riding; I can't envision the Murlocs as intelligently husbanding animals to ride, y'know?
(this may very well be exactly what you were going for; surprisingly intelligent Murlocs with an actual culture & stuff).
And in fact, this is not without precedent. As you pointed out in your list, the Undead are remarkably short on true mounted units; in fact, they have but one mounted hero and not a single mounted unit. Could be lots of reasons why, but part of it, I imagine, is that it just didn't make sense; Undead things don't need a guiding hand to ride them, the Lich King controls them all individually. Who rides a Crypt Fiend (sentient by themselves)? Or a Gargoyle, or a Destroyer, or a Frost Wyrm... They are cool enough as they are.
(to be fair, I'm not against Undead mounted units; keenly felt their loss, in fact, and enjoy models like skeletal knights & what-not)
So the Murlocs could indeed be like this (little/no mounted units) and it be OK; the "fast movespeed" issue is a non-issue to me (simply come up with a reason for a fast(er) unit (by reason I mean "write in the tooltip", i.e. "Murloc Coastrunner: Agile melee unit gifted with speed, able to learn __ & ___". I mean, essentially you're saying "Murlocs are spawned, some with different gifts. Some are strong for fighting, some smart for magery, some agile for speed". This can be accentuated by proper model editing (mess with the mesh to make them thicker or thinner, more gangly & longer legs for speed))
As yet another alternative, they could indeed mount; each other. Look up "palanquin" and tell me that's not a cool idea. A fancy high priest Murloc being carried in a fancy chair by a bunch of slave murlocs? Noice. Also, consider magically-floating thrones & such, ala the WH Slaan.
H said:
Also, every race has at least one unit with Spell Immunity (Spell Breaker, Faerie Dragon, Dryad, Destroyer). Orcs don't have a magic immune unit, but they have Ethereal Spirit Walker that's immune to physical attacks. So, should I give any of my units Spell Immunity?
Probably. 3/4 did it, so if you can come up with even a reasonable excuse, I would (here's a thought; you have only 11 units and need one more*... What about a Hermit Crab? Some kind of crustacean, at least, with a thick shell... That's an easy sell for "Spell Immunity", and you can decide on it's Role/Function later (bad form, but what the heck).
On the other hand, at least one race (Horde) did not, so there's precedent to avoid it. Just make sure you compensate in some other way (unsure exactly how, to be honest; what do the Orcs have? Lots of dispels? Just a general, racial weakness? Hard to know).
Different towers shouldn't look the same, a human player needs to be able to tell them apart at a glance. Maybe put a special effect using whichever murloc type they're garisonned with?
Hermit said:
The tower has "Upgrade" animations with different murlocs that stand on the platform and attack enemy units in range. So, they're always visible.
@Hermit, this is actually quite a salient point. I know you have this cool 'garrison' plan, like the RA2 IFV, but you've got to make sure it's really obvious from a distance. It's a thing in games I call "the Silhouette Principle"; in order for players to really come to grips, aesthetically, with a game, the important game elements (if not everything) has to be extremely recognizable, even from a distance, and even if distanced from all normal visual cues (color, shade, details, etc). Basically, the silhouette needs to be distinct. TF2 absolutely rocks this principle; look it up. Warcraft does a great job too; even from a distance (which, technically is the whole game), it's easy to tell what unit is what... And that's essential for proper game-play. If two units looked/moved just alike (say, oh I dunno, Horde-aligned Jungle "Troll Headhunters" and Troll-aligned Jungle Troll "Hunters", well... You're gonna have a bad time.)
So anyway, lesson is: make sure it's super-obvious (silhouette-wise) what each tower looks like. Ala the Human tower-scheme.
I guess you're right, but I just want to have as many original things as possible.
No, you're right, keep pushing forward.
H said:
I guess I'll remove it then.
H said:
Yes, I definitely need a healing spell.
Well, you need some Healing functionality; might be a spell, might be a building, might even be an item (don't forget those).
- Alliance: Holy Light (Paladin), Heal (Priest, Initiate), Scroll of Regeneration (Arcane Vault, T1)
- Horde: Healing Wave (Shadow Hunter), Healing Ward (Witch Doctor, Master), Healing Salve (Voodoo Lounge, T1)
- Scourge: Death Coil (Death Knight), Essence of Blight (Obsidian Statue), Scroll of Healing (Tomb of Relics, T3)
- Sentinels: Tranquility (Keeper of the Grove, Ultimate), Rejuvenation (Druid of the Claw)
Not counting personal/Hero healing (i.e. Potions of Healing in every racial shop, nor Cannibalize), nor enhanced regeneration (i.e. Troll Berserker, Gargoyle Stone Form, Undead-on-Blight), there's heal spells (both heroes & units, both single/multi-target & AoE, both straight Heals & Heals-Over-Time), but also heal-items. No race has fewer than 2 methods of healing; most have 3 (including an item).
So maybe something to consider.
H said:
I know some names are kinda stupid, I ran out of ideas. Do you have any suggestions? I don't know if this helps, but the "Town Hall" is the tallest building in this screenshot and the "upgrader" is right next to it.
cleavinghammer said:
Names: Outpost/Settlement/Colony (I'm assuming that's the t3 hall in the picture). Sea Sawmill, alas, is too good a pun, so maybe just Carpentry, Woodworker's Hut or Storehouse.
Boy do I. : )
@Hermit: First off, question: What role do the Naga play in this whole shebang? Are you making a campaign with these guys, where they might interact (un/favorably) with the Naga at all? Because otherwise, this being a simple 5th-race addition (ha, 'simple'), that means you can basically re-use whatever you want from the Naga race in yours. In fact, you already have with the Slave. More on this later, but specifically for the above question:
Shrine of the Sea
Temple of Tides*
Sanctuary of the Depths
Coastal Shack
Seabed Manor
Trench Palace
Coastal Shack/Shrine
Colony of Scales
Aquatic Settlement
Probably more, but most are variants on "Name-for-Water - Name-for-House".
The "upgrader" is tricky... One question is, what/how are they upgrading? Humans forge metals at a Blacksmith, Orcs smith & burn stuff at a War Mill, Undead research spooky stuff at a Graveyard (lol), while Night Elves train as hunters at the Hunter's Hall. What do Murlocs do (aside from grglmlgmemrgl)? And what are there weapons made out of, that they will be upgrading?
I rather like "Storehouse", actually. "Carpentry"/"Woodworking Hut" seem weird (do they really deal with carpentry? Maybe they have to...)
H said:
Maybe I'll (re)design the Tidecaller to be an anti-caster.
Might not hurt. One thing (mentioned in my Megapost linked above) is that TFT brought about some big racial changes that evince a pattern; specifically, the introduction of an anti-magic functionality to each race (mostly in unit-form). Spell Breaker, Faerie Dragon (& ~Dryad), Destroyer; only the Orcs with their Spirit Walkers are sorta questionable (and still, got a good dispel & Spirit Link which mitigates all damage, including spells). A "caster anti-caster" is a reasonably creative idea (i.e. doesn't currently exist). *cough*.
Yes, but I think the Sea Turtle should be some kind of siege unit.
Don't be too determined to set that Role/Function in stone. I can see a Dragon Turtle also providing great tanking (melee-range Bite, big thick shell, high priority, etc), and/or a solid 'mount' (as discussed above) for just about anything (ranged soldier/cavalry mage/siege engine), etc.
H said:
Not really; Slaves are worker units and their movement speed is 190. The Mangonel is similar to the Orc Demolisher/Catapult and has a movement speed of 220.
Hm. Then perhaps the opposite is true; Mangonels make moving your workers more easy than it should be. Could be problematic? Testing will tell.
To be clear, I like the creative idea (pair 2 workers to make a siege engine), and "Mangonel" is a good name, but it does seem a little weird, especially if the model of the worker doesn't have at least some kind of wood/contraption on them. It's like, where does it come from?? Maybe if they could only 'suit up' by going to the "Upgrader Bldg" (not just as a requirement, but like Call to Arms).
H said:
That could be abused. The Mangonel's HP is not a combination/portion of the Slaves' HP. It always forms with full HP. The reason why it doesn't take into account the Slaves' HP at the time is simply because forming a damaged, burning Mangonel would look silly. The Mangonel wouldn't even have to be repaired like all mechanical units if I added an ability that separates them.
Well, it might look silly, but it also introduces some serious balance issues and might mean going with the 'nonsensical' option. AFAIK, they can couple & de-couple anytime? So have some nearly-dead Slaves (being hammered by a Blademaster, let's say) couple into a Mangonel at full HP... Then soon after de-couple and (unless you saved their relative HP somewhere at coupling) both are at full HP again.
Not good.
H said:
I tried Curse and Faerie Fire. They work fine, but the buff indicator (E.g. This unit is Cursed; it can miss when it attacks) doesn't show.
Aw man! I was really hoping that would work unilaterally. Faerie Fire especially.
Wait, are you sure? I swear I've heard of someone doing that with FF.
H said:
Done. I also changed the name of the thread.
Looks wonderful. : )
Besides making the Reef Dragon have a siege attack type, how else can I make them more distinctive?
Honestly, I'm not sure if you need to (see above). The model itself is so distinct, it really just needs a place of honor, personally. That, or... Well, if I haven't said it yet, I don't want to wait for my "Techtree Response Post", so I'll touch this topic now: Have you considered the Murlocs being a race with extremely limited aerial capabilities (i.e. like the RoC Orcs, with only medium-power Wyvern Riders), or perhaps even being devoid of aerial units entirely? Honestly it's one of the first things I thought of (like, "how do sea-dwelling fish-men have flying things?"), and it could be a really unique selling-point of the faction while encouraging you to 'think outside the box' in order to ensure balance happens (i.e. they'd have to have some serious anti-air capabilities, and some method of scouting & 'extending influence' across the map in a way that air units normally do). I have been toying with it for the Naga, or the Nerubians, but it's just sorta sat there in my head, doing little.
I know you may want to avoid such a drastic divergence from the Blizzard norm, and I wouldn't fault you for that. I myself am only marginally sure it could be made to work... But it would be very interesting. And very fitting.
At the very least, consider restricting your Murloc's 'aerial prowess' to just one creature; it definitely solves your "differentiation" problem, opens a slot in the techtree, and solidifies them in the lore (as I see it). Just some food for thought.
H said:
Honestly, it seems kinda far–fetched.
Hey, I was with you, man, but the "Chum" angle is starting to sell me on it.
H said:
...Also, if a building is affected by a buff, that buff can't be removed since dispels can't target buildings.
Sure... Much like how dispels can't remove Freezing Breath, Corrosive Breath, Liquid Fire, Cloud... I see no problem there.
H said:
Most things aren't even close to being finalized and are subject to change (highlighted in orange). I'm by no means an expert on making a custom race and that's why I made this thread, to gather ideas and to get feedback.
It's positive to see such humility. But make sure to balance that with a well-deserved level of self-esteem; you are (if not already) working at being the Murloc Expert (a true "
@Murlocologist", lol), versed in their Lore, their history, their race & culture... And making up whatever you can't research. ;P
You & I may never be on the level of Handclaw; pumping out seemingly-perfect ideas with seemingly-no uncertainty. But we can get close.
I still think the Reef Dragon should have some kind of anti-tower ability since each race has a flying unit with an anti-tower ability:
Dragonhawk Rider - Cloud
Troll Batrider - Liquid Fire
Chimaera - Corrosive Breath
Frost Wyrm - Freezing Breath
It could have a passive ability similar to Orb of Corruption (that only affects buildings).
I call it "Anti-Turtling", but I suppose since it's mainly about Towers & stopping them from attacking (with 3/4 of those), yeah.
Orb of Corruption? That's perfect. Very good idea; I'll have to use that (with credit). Lowering building armor is a great way to incentivize attacking it without outright killing it.
H said:
Having a healer unit that isn't a caster is not a problem for a race that has 2 casters (Undead). However, I already have 3 casters, which is unusual and I think that at least one of them is bound to have a healing spell.
Yeah, I could almost see you replacing one of those casters, unless you feel Murlocs are well-represented as a more 'magically-inclined' race. (It always confused me why the Horde of all the factions ends up with 3 casters, but I have recently realized it's a good way to show them moving away from their barbaric warrior-like backgrounds & towards a more peaceful, shamanic-centered future. I guess.)
H said:
I'm using a slightly edited version of this model for the Reef Dragon. So, I think they should be more powerful than the Scavenger Drake Riders, not the other way around.
Definitely. And ahh, such a classic model. "Slightly edited", eh? Aside from adding TC, whatcha do?
Hmm... This is strange; I just tested a few random melee maps and I noticed buildings don't get buff indicators at all, even from those abilities that normally should give them a buff indicator (Cloud, Freezing Breath). Is anyone else having this problem or just me?
I saw your Edited fix, and it worries me; does one have to mess with Gameplay Constants to make it work? I was hoping (in my mods) to modify as little as possible of the core gameplay stuff (like that)...
H said:
I don't know what unit could have it.
Actually, that sounds like a very neat ability, and if the Hydra weren't the T3OD, it could totally fit. As it is, I'd at least use the name; "Fission" is much better than the clunky over-descriptive "Separation Capability".
H said:
I've had the same idea ever since I started with this, but I'm still not sure about it since casters usually don't have channeling spells.
Hm, they don't, do they? I wonder why that is...
H said:
That could very well be one of Nightcrawler's abilities (just needs a better name).
Haven't gotten to this part yet, but yes, that's a fantastic ability idea (especially for fish-men, and almost certainly for the Nightcrawler (AGI heroes tend to have some utility 'escape' ability)).
I haven't played any of Ujimasa Hojo's maps yet, but I did "steal" some ideas from Fokyip's E.O.R. (Evolution of Races) maps. He included 16 races in a single map; that's really astonishing.
Lol, gotta check that out. Love fishing for ideas.
Hermit said:
I get what you're saying, but we can't know what would have happened if Blizzard had kept making expansions and I don't want to speculate.
This is a good point. Perhaps even more importantly (for me), is that I am building my 5th-Race-Addition as if it had been made
in RoC, and then for TFT. I actually planned unit/hero/building-additions, pretending as if I was solving the same problems they did with TFT (anti-caster, anti-turtling, etc). At least I attempted to.
By the way, I had one more idea; a flying mechanical unit. However, murlocs are semi-aquatic creatures and they look funny in aircraft.
Lol... Pretty cool-looking, but certainly not for the actual race. At least, I hope. : )
Kodo Beasts have Devour and Crypt Lord has Spiked Carapace. So, I'm with Kyrbi0 ↓
Actually, if you read/read the part about "technically unique", I would argue that making a unit-version of the heroic Spiked Carapace is perfectly alright. You don't even have to call it the same, or have it be identical; it could just be the +Armor, or the Melee-Reflect.
H said:
cleavinghammer suggested an alternative, Devour/Regurgitate ↓
However, it seems overpowered; a few turtles could devour entire creep camps, transport them to your base and then spit them out so you can finish them off with the help of other units and towers. I don't think creeps would even return to their previous position after turtles spit them out. So, you could make barriers out of creeps anywhere on the map and use them against enemies. Also, the ability technically doesn't have a cooldown (i.e. devour time) since the devoured unit can be spat out at any time.
I kinda think that's unlikely. But as pointed out by others, relatively easy situation that you can prepare for & stop.
H said:
Maybe I'm wrong since I'm not a native English speaker, but I think the term mitosis is only used when talking about cell division.
No, you are right that that's how it's normally used. However, situations like this often call for a word like that to be used 'euphemistically', or (as Dehua put it) 'poetically'. "Mitosis" isn't perfect (will make some suggestions later), but it's
much better, and definitely fine.
I don't want to have too many tier 3 units, so either the Sea Turtle will be available in tier 2 or the Reef Dragon.
Well, actually...
So each faction has a variety of things available at each Tier. However, Tier 3 is interesting; two races (Orcs & Night Elves) only have one Unit available at T3 (Tauren & Chimaera, respectively). The Humans & the Undead, however, have not 1, not 2, but
3 separate Tier 3 Units; advanced Alliance bases field Knights, Gryphon Riders, and Siege Engines, while advanced Scourge bases can yield Abominations, Frost Wyrms, and Destroyers.
I have no idea why this is. But it's clear to me that having anywhere from 1-3 T3 Units is no problem (especially if they are Heavy Melee or Heavy Ranged/Capital 'Ship'/T3OD, but don't forget 'special' stuff like the Alliance's T3 'uber-siege' and the Scourge's T3 'heavy flying anti-caster').
Hermit said:
By the way, each race has a mechanical siege unit with a (learnable) passive ability:
Siege Engine - Barrage
Demolisher - Burning Oil
Glaive Thrower - Vorpal Blades
Meat Wagon - Disease Cloud
So, the Mangonel should also have one. Does anyone have any ideas?
That's a good find; I hadn't really considered that. I was about to suggest something (in the next post), but I'll shortcut that & say that Scias NAILED it. Perfect suggestion, you should totally do it.
*goes back to Troll race to figure out if I'm doing it right*