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[Role Playing Game] Memento Mori

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Talavaj, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    I just realized that my new computer does not have warcraft 3 installed, or frozen throne, or neodex.
    I should probably take care of that. I'm working on a different project right now that doesn't have to do with warcraft, but like I've said before, if anyone needs me as a spare modeler, just ask.
     
  2. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Yeah, the most of the stuff I show is merely the concept art. I don't want to show the actual content until I'm 100% sure it is final.

    Also I found the game xD you mentioned before. It is called Enslaved: Odyssey to the West.
    It is a bit too fantasy, set in a very post-apo America. The level design is great but a bit too deteriorated.
    I'm aiming for something in between this and the last of us with less open areas to conserve space because of how limited the wc3 maps are in size.
    TLOU, with more foliage that is about it.

    Because of how limiting the map size actually is, I started playing with an idea of making some parts of it instanced.
    This would mean "super models" all stacked in one spot on the map and their render state turned off for all but the active one. They would share a couple of pathing templates depending on what the "dungeon" is. And content within the "dungeon" would generate randomly, these zones would be accessible "scavenging trips" that you could go into from your hideout by selecting the part of the town you want to scavenge into and you would be given information about what kind of threat level the area has, what kind of resources you can find there and about how much time and stats it would take to scavenge there.
    When you choose one place it will generate a random instanced area of some template and the objective/situation would warry.
    They would be set in areas not normally accessible in the open world such as floors in apartment buildings and the general objective would be to scavenge the floor while avoiding enemies if any. "Failed" scavenges could for example be that you would be loaded into middle of an encounter with a boss level creature that you would have to escape from or into an encounter where you are surrounded by enemies and would have to fight through.
    Those are the ones I thought of so far and I'm free to whatever suggestions you people have for any suitable events that could occur !

    I have also been watching TLOU bit by bit for inspiration on props and level design and stuff like that. The amount of detail in that game is just mind boggling. I wish I could come at least somewhere near that but it is truly daunting.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RVtT4t7L54
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  3. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    Yeah, TLOU has incredible graphics for the PS3 and they obviously put tons of time into it. The environment is pretty interactive to. Its near impossible to do the same thing alone in your free time, as naughty dog had a big modeling team working full time to make all the art. Plus they had dedicated concept artists to work off.
     
  4. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    I wouldn't say the graphics were amazing, at least not from a technical standpoint.
    Though the fact makes it even more impressive because it did indeed look good.

    The level design and direction though did it, and the mind boggling amount of texture/asset variation. I could swear I could not tell if there was any art reuse in the game.
    Obviously, the multiplayer looks worse in comparison.

    And that is precisely, the reason why some of my art pisses me off. Even though I often tell myself "I can model that" I still fall short for some reason.
    Working on it though, I have been literally dissecting the MP maps and tightly waiting for the map-pack dlc to come out.
    All fine though, I do believe there is potential for MM to look somewhat close.
    Though I guess you will be the judges after the gameplay trailer is out. Hoping to gather a bunch of feedback too, both on the presentation and the mechanics.
     
  5. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    That looks awesome!

    So you're making a trailer then? I need to get my popcorn ready.
     
  6. RiotZ

    RiotZ

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    I didn't really notice the asset usage in TLOU but, I was really, really impressed with the lighting and mostly the level design.
     
  7. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    A short gameplay footage ya. I wanted a trailer, but it has a little point, especially because I do not have enough content to make a proper trailer. I may make one nearing the first release later though.

    Also, weekend has come finally ! and I can work on some stuff.
    I'm finalizing the protagonist for the show-off, his attire was changed slightly and he was fitted with extra detail accessory fit for survival, he also wears glasses now.
    They reflect according to how he moves, lol (one of those things nobody will notice) the same way that the water animation I showed earlier works.
    And also have been brainstorming over the equipment, since there are virtually no stats (though the perk grid has similar effects but they are all under the hood) most of the equipment will only expand on depth.
    But it is fun thinking up weird makeshift stuff like barbed wire armguards, dust scarves, makeshift pouches attached with belt onto the thigh (that expand the hot slots) and similar stuff.
    A lot of of the detail equipment stuff is inspired after TLOU multiplayer too.
    Been also checking out Survarium which looks better than ever. One of the levels in there has a piece of design that literally blew my mind. It is an anomaly that spilled out of a chemical tank and turned into a gooey formation that appears to have created a reef like environment inside where fishes swim around. (if I saw it right)

    I like small immersive detail work, hoping people will notice it though.

    Below is how the reflection looks like, I know the size and position of the glasses isn't quite right lol, though fitting geosets is easy thanks to how Manoo modeled the character I can model and fit attachments on an inanimate replica in max and they transfer perfectly when attached to the appropriate point on the model which allows for some very specific equipment attachments in game.
    The texture animation is synced to body movement in every sequence and the wrap is distorted using vertex color brush so it appears more glassy and refractive.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4zChfJI0cs

    [​IMG]

    Also, as seen on the glasses I began to use this "cell shaded" material to fake metallic/shiny fresnel. Using a grey/black gradient wrapped in a way that highlights the top and darkens the bottom edges.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
  8. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    Omg, that is so scary it's awesome! The details you call small definitely have a big impact on the game. I think that I can make a very pretentious friend of mine like your mod and he hates Warcraft.
     
  9. jakeZinc

    jakeZinc

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    Nice models they are very highly in qualities =))! Interesting project of yours ^^!
     
  10. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Hey hey, how are you doing everybody ? Finally, I have got a good feeling for once !
    I made some neat changes to the chapter design and narrative, I'm not a story-in-games person but I feel good about this one.
    That decision also resulted in some exciting changes that you may hear about soon enough !
    p.s the demo prologue level is sexy as fuck. I mean, what ?

    Also, hope you are liking the new logo !
    [​IMG]
     
  11. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    Ya, I love when I get an awesome feeling about my work. It's usually a good indication things are going good. Can't wait for the beta.

    About the logo, it's better then the last one, but I think you should make one more characteristic of your project.
     
  12. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Yeah, things going pretty well. There may actually be a prologue which will be like a tutorial chapter.
    Initially I intended the tutorial sequence to be within the first chapter but I just didn't have enough space to put it in. (because the backdrops are HUMONGOUS, bigger than the actual playable area)
    I have some doubts about making it the actual first chapter area, there is a lot of effectively used space but I do not want to make it too long because I plan to wipe the player's character progression afterwards (because story related reasons).
    It was intended as a tutorial area that would explore all the features then throw the player out after its completion. Lol, I don't know yet.

    Current issue is with normals on the "super models" being absolutely effed up. It is not that apparent on smaller models but when you have a thing that represents a couple dozen meters it becomes jarringly obvious.
    But it is not that much of a problem anyway, Ill probably bake a complete shadow map on them and just leave them unshaded. (besides if people also use ambient occlusion from the included ENB it will be perfectly fine)

    Though it does show that the native smooth shading does actually do a lot. (although it is kinda too faint in my opinion)
    Another annoying thing is that I have insufficient reference materials for things like destroyed objects.
    eg. what exactly is below the street ? what exactly is the core of this shattered wall ? etc.

    Anyways, I have very good feeling overall ! The level design, narrative and everything fits very well so far. (at least for the first couple chapters).

    Also here is an example of the shading being awkward to say the least. The big dark area in front shouldn't be there as it is just a flat street.
    This actual section of the model is out of the playable area hence the low-polyness.
    [​IMG]

    And to give you the general idea of how huge the models actually are.
    This is one half of the tutorial's chunk model, the yellow model is the protagonist.
    Though, most of the model is not a playable area and backdrops extend beyond the map's extents.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  13. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    Always refreshing to check your thread. I'm glad that you had a inspirational moment and I know it feels great when you see your creation "more alive" than ever. I for one am out of inspirational energy. For now, in a experimental state again, I'm trying to make diffuse textures as convincing as can but I'm still having trouble finding a way to reconcile them with the bump and specular, too many variations I can choose from not one that I actually consider good.

    The logo looks nice but something's still missing, doesn't quite match the stile, probably addings some gears or something could fix that?!

    Are you having problems with disepiring models in the far out extents?
     
  14. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Initially I wanted to use a skysphere that would have the backdrop models in it. But because of the way sky works in the game I scrapped that idea.

    The only disappearing issue I have is with walkable platforms which seem to disappear no matter how big the extents are, so I have to make a unique platform with full transparent material on top of the street (which is UBER pain in the ass to align right by the way)
    Other than that the "super models" work fine and display correctly for the most part.
    The street models themselves are fairly low poly though (only the holes add a lot of geometry) the buildings are a bit higher, but they lose detail on their way up.
    Such as the apartments at the bottom have parallax and modeled railings, whereas the detail higher up is just a flat texture (usually print screened model lol).
    There is a lot of similar optimization stuff, water for example is very poly dense only close to the playable area and the polies slowly disappear into the distance until it eventually becomes a flat texture because you won't see shit that far anyway.

    The only problem limiting the scale is the pathetically short clipping distance of the game which appears to be capped at 10k no matter what I tried. Any idea if there is any way to bypass that ?
     
  15. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    So you're actually using a large far clipping then?! Sorry but I tried everything here as well, especially messing with the models and material properties. Have you tried a imported camera model? You can change more native properties like depth of field, Far clipping and Near clipping (Near C - Seems to be changeable but it doesn't work under a value of 10?) far beyond the acceptable limit, especially the field of view so much that it becomes like looking through a distorted mirror. These things can be scripted as well I think.
    Hope I understood the question well!
     
  16. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    I'd want as big far clipping as possible, yes. I currently use 10,000 and it doesn't seem to go past that using triggers. Lol, and when we are at it I would also like to turn off the hilariously unoptimized terrain (the way it can be done in the editor) that would be great but that probably cannot be done.
    Most likely the maximum you can do is change the tileset to something like 2x2 pixel sized texture to minimize the impact on performance.

    Pretty sure that the massive performance loss while in high drawing distance aren't the models themselves but the terrain tile, which is always at full resolution. (no texture filtering)
    It is fine from the native camera angle but it is an overkill from any other camera angle. A 256x256 map has a terrain mesh that is like 131k polygons minimum (probably much higher if there are seams and material layers) and 65,536 tiles of unoptimized 64x64 pix textures all over the place which is not only insane load but also a mega brutal aliasing galore.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
  17. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    For all that I think you need some kind of a hack, wish it would be possible with simple tricks. If you can't fix a problem, move on, it will cost you a lot of time maybe later you'll find answers doing somethin else.

    Ok, Just let me try something!
     
  18. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    If only there was some way to completely remove the terrain mesh and instead use nothing but models.
    I bet there is. Hmmmm.
     
  19. Rao Dao Zao

    Rao Dao Zao

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    Use the alpha tile, raise all your walkable destructibles off the ground plane/lower the invisible terrain beneath them?
     
  20. RiotZ

    RiotZ

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    Yup.

    This.

    It's a pain in the ass to work with alpha tile though, fair warning.