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[Role Playing Game] Memento Mori

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Talavaj, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    So yeah, believe it or not, the texture is the same for all materials. This is what happens when you have all those layers to blend together in different ways. I am actually surprised myself that the hard shell for example turned out like that.

    I think the shadow maps actually work with fake parallax but you have 2 options; one is using a top layer shadow map as you said but you'll have to be satisfied with its flaws or make it look good somehow. The other would be adding shadow maps to all layers which actually looks like the real thing as the shadows are placed on the vertical surfaces as well. Almost got it right last night but the problem that remained was to add the priority planes wich I don't know how in neo dex so I'll have to use art tools. Almost certain that it will work as blending the modulate with the other layers worked for the parallax + bump. If it works I'll send you a sample.

    One more thing, adding shadow maps to all those layers will reduce performance. Bummer!
     
  2. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Actually another problem is that stacked modulate is like guaranteed to end up pure black. At least that was what happened in my test for some reason.

    Scratch that ! Actually it looks like it ends up just fine. It behaves a bit weird with priority 1 but it looks perfectly fine (as if it is in the bottom of the holes).
    Without priority it doesn't work, as suspected.
    That is using only one layer on top as a separate model.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And you are right, using blend is just so much nicer, and it doesn't even bug up with priority planes.
    Here is a high quality parallax texture for a pedestrian crossing.

    [​IMG]

    And here next to a flat texture without parallax. On a chunk model of a crossing on Broadway 500 S. A hyper large amount of detail using only 74 triangles, although a bit taxing at the texture size.

    [​IMG]

    The current concept of the area is a large flat clearing with lots of ground foliage and a hole filled with rain water with a single car wreck sitting in the middle.
    The area will be considerably dark however because of the four tall buildings sitting on every corner and a dense canopy of trees growing from their decrepit walls. There will be little but intense light shining through the few holes illuminating bright spots on the ground.
    It is fairly safe and highly resourceful spot, with the 4 buildings around housing 7 Eleven, a pharmacy, food mart and a clothing store with an above ground level full of apartments to search.
    It is the main hub of the first level and the very first spot to take shelter at.

    [​IMG]

    And here is the crossing in real life, you can see the big and small tiling from the textures in there, obviously it is not super accurate as I'm limited by the texture palette. But yeah, a lot of the models and doodads I model nearly identical.
    Even their placement is gonna be close to how they are in real life L.A ! (of course unless things changed since the google earth pics were taken) and of course in the mod most of the environment is going to be completely ruined.
    I still ask myself whether I will keep the real life naming or make up my own, but considering it is just so blatantly obvious what things are modeled after (plus I keep mentioning it here often) I may as well keep it. Due to the nature of the mod I could see people getting offended shall I accidentally draw some actual connection to real people (which is not intended as the mod is purely a work of fiction) but I doubt anybody would ever take any legal actions against me for a mod somewhere on a wc3 modding site.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  3. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    I had this problem at the beginning as well, I'm glad you solved the problem.
    I'll drink to that if it actually happens!

    Today I went to a friend to see his computer perform in max quality on the newest games and I realized how much crap my stuff actually is. I tend to do everything rushed and not put so much heart in to it because I want to finish this as soon as I can, one of the reasons my latest scenes are starting to look like crap. Why the barren turned out like crap, because I'm starting to put quantity over quality but it's so hard to do this alone...
    Speaking of real life I came across this videos at my friens place which turned my reality upside down. At the end of the vizionary I realized how shit "poligon technology" *(don't hate me for saying this people) is, I had a feeling I was watching tetris. Of Course this was just a fleeting feeling at the moment.
    It's hard to trust what this guys are claiming but it seems real.
    Check this out if you didn't know about it before, might be old news, or not.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irf-HJ4fBls
     
  4. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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  5. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Unlimited detail (as they proposed) will never happen, voxel based visuals handle lighting and animation very poor.
    They also can't have proper material shaders. Plus there are many more practical reasons against it.
    Such as can you imagine how much more it would cost to model in that detail and how much longer it would take ?
    Scanning of real life objects and converting them would work but it would only get you as far.

    It is just messy altogether. Besides the entire idea is pointless because we are slowly getting to the extreme level of detail (that matters to the viewer relative from the distance the geometry is viewed from) using modern tessellation coupled with something like vector displacement.

    Secondly a world where GPUs don't matter is not feasible, there is too much money in the business.
    Nobody from "the big GPU manufacturers" would care because voxel based graphics could be rendered without the big GPUs, similarly MS would not acknowledge it either because of DX.
    Both have gargantuan market share, it is just not gonna happen.

    It is a nice university project I suppose, though It has no future in gaming IMO. Although the geoverse looks cool, I would love to see google earth in such quality. Also heh, seems like they themselves changed their mind about gaming applications.
    They should just stick with geoverse or whatever similar stuff for geovisualization, I don't see it being useful for much else.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  6. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    I have to Agree, this got me hyped at first. It seems that they might of gave up on the gaming concept and went to what they might do best on the market. Although it seemed like a nice what if at first. I gues sticking to the shity poligons is still best for us artists, what would you want more. (The universe if possible please!)
    No wonder no gaming company goes near. Made some research on it and it seems to be true.
    Bah, I'm bloody disappointed, next time I post something that intrigues me I should research about it before posting. *Mostly disappointed* I'm not very interested in global positioning that looks nice on "google" or space aged cell phones for that matter. Still, in the end every discovery might have its importance. You might not know what will pop out from one concept and it might be way different from it...

    BallisticTerrain, yeah I already seen one of those videos when I came across the unlimited detail thing.
     
  7. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Once again, was too busy with work this week to make any significant progress. Most street doodads are done however and street tiles can start to be placed down.

    Here is also a concept render of the main street crossing, although the level of deterioration is still too small.
    It very likely will end up with more foliage, rubble and broken tiles.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  8. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    You're getting closer to the real thing. There's one thing I wanted to ask you for a long time. How do you fragment your models? Do you simply use boolean or something else. I have seen you make that shark in Zbrush but it's just recently that I started to use it myself.
     
  9. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    With booleans, and more recently with Houdini FX. It has voronoi fracture.
    It is much better with physics, fluids and animations than Max, or at least the default offering is much better than that of Max when it comes to those features. Though I wouldn't dare to use it for modeling lol.

    The shark is made in mudbox actually. I got it mainly for the texture paint which IMO is a lot better than that in Zbrush.
     
  10. Wazzz

    Wazzz

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    you wouldn't happen to be a hammerfall fan, would you?
     
  11. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    As in the metal band ? Not really, I'm more of a "whatever sounds good" kind of fan. Though I do prefer older stuff.

    By the way, would you want a "listen mode" (shamelessly ripped out of the last of us) or would you prefer not having one given it is a predominantly survival mod ?
    It would be a feature that can detect enemies through opaque environment (much like the detect life/dead in skyrim), you could only use it while crouching still and it would temporarily "ping" enemies around you if they were behind an opaque environment.
    I thought it would be quite a sensible feature given there is a lot of emphasis on stealth and going stealth blindly may not be very useful but I'm worried whether it would be too "cheap" or wash away the tension.
     
  12. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    I wouldn't want a listen mode. It didn't make sense in the last of us and it won't make sense here. It would seem way to fake and easily locating enemies like that isn't really ideal for a survival horror game. I hardly ever used listen the last of us except once, wasn't really all that useful. Things like that are for stealth games like dishonored and splinter cell were there is a way to explain it. (Dishonored mark of the outsider with void gaze, splinter cell the night/sonar vision goggles.)

    There has to be a better way to force that cool mesh xray thing into the mod.

    Zbrush advertisement begins now.
    Also, I am deeply and unnecessarily offended you choose mudbox over zbrush. Zbrush is much more feature rich and you can actually build a model from the ground up in it, and do everything except for animation. With several of my recent models I haven't even touched 3ds Max except for a few UV maps, just used Zbrush and XNormal. That added to the fact Zbrush can export in tons of file formats makes it much more worth it. I tried the student version of mudbox before I got Zbrush.... it has an easier to learn interface, but that is literally it. My biggest complaint with mudbox is how scewy models are when you import them from other programs. I could not get one max model in mudbox without an error, plus, the scuplting has a tendency to seriously screw over the topology. Zbrush does not have this problem, and even has three different ways to fix it. (Retop Brush, Dynamesh, ZRemesher) Zbrush even destroys mudbox in the convenience department, allowing you to send models back and forth between max and Zbrush with a single button click. Literally, all you do is press it. You don't even have to press a "yes I do actually want to do this" button.
    Zbrush advertisement ends now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  13. Drunken_Jackal

    Drunken_Jackal

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    Yeah, listen mode should be removed. As well as things such as looking behind walls and the such. It removes some of the stealth essential in a survival game/mod. The player should just rely on their line of sight for this, along with avoiding the line of sight of the enemy.
     
  14. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    xD ok, no listen mode then. Well the kind of explanation behind it in TLOU is that you can "hear" the enemies though indeed it was a very gamey feature in otherwise a fairly pragmatic game.
    It is a bit difficult to make a proper stealth mechanic without some obvious elements though, like those displaying the FOV of the enemy or acquisition range or level of alertness while at the same time being as natural and minimalistic as possible.

    Though you will be quite obviously tell what your situation is, as all things that generate threat in stealth are either audible, if you heard a sound other than hud sounds it is 99% likely that it reflected in noise level.
    If you notice your character appear darker you are quite obviously in a shadow and as you can guess not moving and being in crouch keeps both the noise and sight levels low.
    One thing that might be less "cheap" way of detecting enemies is that monsters will emit sounds all the time, (which is after all scarier than not seeing enemies at all) but you still won't be able to detect them properly I guess ? as I reckon wc3 doesn't really use 3D sounds it only makes sounds louder when they are further away ? or does it like use actual 3d sound ?

    Also, Zbrush is definitely a more complete package than mudbox. But I already have a workflow in max and I don't need a self sufficient program. I only really got mudbox because of the texture paint. (and the poser tools I kinda like those too)
    Though the main advantage of Zbrush IMO (because the others are really kinda cosmetic as you can make production quality sculpts with either) is the technology it uses to draw the mesh with which is a lot like voxel allowing for meshes to be displayed on machines that would melt down when viewing the same level of detail in mudbox which uses simple old polies and as such is generally lot less performance efficient.

    Also the models that you import into mudbox bring up errors all the time because the software requires a very good topology for proper subdivisions (it will absolutely hate you if you don't use quads). So yeah for that reason it is pretty obvious that I wouldn't recommend it to people without a proper 3d modelling software and a considerable experience with polygonal modeling.
     
  15. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    Actually I've been switching from Zbrush to Sculptris. It's a really simple version with only some basic tools and yet The paint tools, geometri and uv paint are all I need, not to mention that it's a lot gentler on my machine, for everything else there's 3ds max. Obviously, I'm making my stuff on a less performance computer but stuff like this calls for a new one.
     
  16. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Yeah, I'm actually thinking of incorporating mudbox to sculpt the streets. I have spent exhausting amount of effort to figure out how to make them the way I want but I ended up with a "meh" feeling that makes me think it is not what I wanted it to be (which is really disheartening).
    I want people to think "what the actual fuck!" when they first get to the game and I personally am not feeling it as of yet which makes me redesign a lot of what I made before.
    If you remember the building model I have shown before or the concept room, none of those assets actually made it any further because I deemed them to be sucky xD.

    I also want to edit the OP (because some things listed in there are no longer true and different features were added) but I feel just changing a bits of it now will be pointless.
    I want to wipe it out entirely and replace with a completely new description which will be more compact, easier to navigate through and nicer. (less text sauce more plain information)

    So ywah ! You will like it hopefully ! It is neat though, although the many setbacks waste a lot of time I feel they helping the overall quality. I have been researching a lot and went through and absurd amount of reference gathering such as watching walkthroughs/playing things like TLOU/Crysis 3/I am alive and taking screens of every inch of those and of the google earth (lol!) to get to the point I am at now.

    Which is this. As you can see by the date created, the whole brainstorming process started nearly a year before this project was released in this forum.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2013
  17. RiotZ

    RiotZ

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    Do you think with the assets you've added to the engine, you could make a better, visually more complex multiplayer version of WC3?
     
  18. muzzel

    muzzel

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    Nice screens, can i rent your modeller guy?
     
  19. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Afraid not, my modeller guy (me) has a ton of things to do as it is.

    As for multiplayer, I don't want to dabble into it personally. Though my stone & sword pack is developed with multiplayer application in mind.
     
  20. tobyfat50

    tobyfat50

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    Can't wait for this to blow my jaw man, I know that you still got a lot of awesome stuff there that you didn't show us and probably won't. I, myself only posted less than 1% from my entire projects as I don't want to spoil too much of it and want to keep it as much as a surprise as I can till the release date. And yes, I also find myself remaking stuff time and time again as I don't feel that it will makes enough of a impact.