[General] Loading page keeps loading while loading bar is full

[Avahor]

Hi guys,
I've been working on a map with JNGP for two or more years.
Recently I've increased the map size to 480 (max allowed on NewGen), then my loading screen keeps loading adding considerable amount of time while the loading bar is full. (at least 100% extra load time with no load display). Does anyone know how to make Load bar shows the effective loading time instead of display bar full with "loading" message?
I've searched into hiveworkshop for tips but nothing related with this behaviour.

 

[Arad MNK]

1. Creating units In-game, not placing them in Editor
2. Pre-loading abilities
3. Set anything from the Event: "Map initialization" to "Elapsed Game Time Equal to blablabla Seconds"

However these tips will take at least 10 seconds "In-Game".
Also, beware of leaks.

 

[Deleted member 242951]

Open the map in WE, save the map without making any changes and the WE will detect some leaks or faults in triggers, object data etc, once u know the problem, fix it manually.

Some item and ability tooltips cause crash qnd similar problems. One such example is the Orb of Fire item.(as shown by weitol in a crash thread)

 

[Tal'Rarity]

You shouldn't be placing units in the editor anyways, I sadly proved that leaks. Blizzard failed to clean their point leaks for creating units in-game from in-editor. Anything you place in-editor is still being created in-game, its just a script hidden from you unless you look in the MPQ of the map.

Like Arad MNK said, those are the main three to delay loading time. Another one can be pathing like destructibles.

 

[Avahor]

You shouldn't be placing units in the editor anyways, I sadly proved that leaks. Blizzard failed to clean their point leaks for creating units in-game from in-editor. Anything you place in-editor is still being created in-game, its just a script hidden from you unless you look in the MPQ of the map.

Like Arad MNK said, those are the main three to delay loading time. Another one can be pathing like destructibles.

Excelent.
that responses two questions for me. the first one is for some unknown leaks that I've detected on run.
Thanks guys for your answers, I'll do that.

 

[PurgeandFire]

You can't do much on that end. There are ways to reduce loading times (e.g. the Widgetizer tool), but for 480x480 maps, a lot of that loading time is spent loading the pathing map and loading the environment (w3e). Regardless of what optimizations you make, a 480x480 map will have at least a megabyte or so of data to process, and it takes the engine a long time to load that.

Try making a blank 480x480 map. I think it'll reach a similar bottleneck around the end of the loading bar.

 

[Avahor]

I see. well anyway I got some usefull info for my question. thanks P&F

 

[SAUS]

You shouldn't be placing units in the editor anyways, I sadly proved that leaks. Blizzard failed to clean their point leaks for creating units in-game from in-editor. Anything you place in-editor is still being created in-game, its just a script hidden from you unless you look in the MPQ of the map.

Like Arad MNK said, those are the main three to delay loading time. Another one can be pathing like destructibles.

LOOOOL I did not know this. +rep. Even more incentive to spawn the units myself lol.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

LOOOOL I did not know this. +rep. Even more incentive to spawn the units myself lol.

You shouldn't really care about this too much. Preplaced units are static by definition. So yes, they leak points, but it's not a problem since preplaced units aren't created periodically and you won't have millions of units on your map anyway, so how do a few hundred points more matter? That's not even noticable in task manager memory consumption.

Preplacing units is convenient. Spawning artistically placed creeps via triggers is not.

 

[muzzel]

You shouldn't really care about this too much. Preplaced units are static by definition. So yes, they leak points, but it's not a problem since preplaced units aren't created periodically and you won't have millions of units on your map anyway, so how do a few hundred points more matter? That's not even noticable in task manager memory consumption.

Preplacing units is convenient. Spawning artistically placed creeps via triggers is not.

So true. A lot of people are so scared of leaks without even knowing what they are.
Leaks are no problem at all, just having a lot of them (millions...) can have a negative impact on performance.

 

[SAUS]

I know what leaks are. Can't say I am super familiar with how badly they affect performance or anything. Replacing the units on the map with triggers is more to help with loading time. There is a good 2-3 dead minutes before anything happens, so I can spread out the spawning over that time. Removing these leaks is just an extra little reason to do it.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

You shouldn't really care about this too much. Preplaced units are static by definition. So yes, they leak points, but it's not a problem since preplaced units aren't created periodically and you won't have millions of units on your map anyway, so how do a few hundred points more matter? That's not even noticable in task manager memory consumption.

Preplacing units is convenient. Spawning artistically placed creeps via triggers is not.

It adds up, since WC3 is infamous for overwriting its own memory somewhere along the line... Less leaks potentially mean more time for gameplay.

Besides technically your still making preplaced units by script anyways, it's better to de-leak it since it is easy enough to copy and paste. Don't even see your point since someone could just copy their unit/object generation scripts to the script header of trigger editor and still have "convenient" placement. Just a few extra steps that take at most ten minutes.

Your still spawning creeps by triggers either way, just the way I revealed is a way you can fix some leaks and have better control over your pre-placed objects.

So true. A lot of people are so scared of leaks without even knowing what they are.
Leaks are no problem at all, just having a lot of them (millions...) can have a negative impact on performance.

It'd good to fear leaks, they're a problem and show the difference between good and bad games. They're actually very problematic, the more intense maps for example like anime maps require you to restart your game/WC3 right after your done playing unless you crashed due to one of wc3's wonderful bugs. Usually people's WC3 end up overwriting something in the memory where it shouldn't and then it decides to blow up. I know it isn't proven yet, but WC3's memory usage is limited to something around 2GB because by then it'll crash and the only way to reset it is to restart your game.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Besides technically your still making preplaced units by script anyways, it's better to de-leak it since it is easy enough to copy and paste.

Yeah what if you want to replace or remove a unit afterwards? Or just move it around? Have fun finding the unit in your list then...

Also, I'm pretty sure MapOptimizer cleans most of the leaks in the premade map header anyway.

 

[Avahor]

You shouldn't really care about this too much. Preplaced units are static by definition. So yes, they leak points, but it's not a problem since preplaced units aren't created periodically and you won't have millions of units on your map anyway, so how do a few hundred points more matter? That's not even noticable in task manager memory consumption.

Preplacing units is convenient. Spawning artistically placed creeps via triggers is not.

Hi Zwiebelchen;
It's very interesting to see different points of view, can you explain why creep spawn placed via trigger is not convenient?. I understand the fact about the memory usage (I've checked Purgeandfire's tip to test a map with max size and surprisingly map's memory usage grows up to 90 - 100 mb per each 400 units in game). My point is if I have 700+ unit (a lot but it's real) at the start. What is the risk to place them via trigger? I remember a famous rpg named Twilight's Eve that had an infinite loading. Obviously same as number of units that you detect at the beginning of the map.
I've chosen to display a cinematic intro while map creates own systems, maybe it's a good way to minimize the "wait" impact at map initialization.

 

[PurgeandFire]

He meant that placing units through triggers is cumbersome. Rather than placing units down on the map and seeing how they look right then and there, you have to think in terms of coordinates/facing angles and visualize it in your head. If you need to make tiny adjustments, you have to think through the math of where the unit will be placed in terms of coordinates.

Loading things during an intro cinematic seems like a pretty good idea. I don't know how much of a difference it'll make, but you can test that yourself. But if you do make those optimizations, then I recommend doing it after you have finalized things. If you do it as you are making the map, it is going to be really frustrating if you suddenly decide to move things around or if you want to delete creeps. It can become really hard to keep track of.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Also, you should remember the limits of human capability. A map with a thousand units placed on it is probably flawed by design.