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Level 40
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Hello, THW.

I am sorry to say that due to recent events I've become rather tired of directing the development section, though this relates to the Hive in general; the section itself isn't much of a problem.

Basically, not only have I moved a little bit away from modding in general, but The Hive seems determined to implode (should I say, it has for a while now), and I'm honestly quite sick of attempting to prop it up when it doesn't want to be.

What's wrong? Well, first things first, there's a need for an excessive amount of moderators (due to the ridiculous resource influx), but no capability to fulfill these demands. The people for the jobs don't want them, or just aren't existent.

However, that isn't it. Moderation in some categories has been less than satisfactory. I mean, heck, disagreements are one thing, but open moderator warfare? I mean, come on people, seriously. You're supposed to be upholding the rules, not inciting violation thereof.

Next, a few people need to learn to take criticism with a grain of sugar. Criticism may sound nasty and undesirable, but it's a good thing, people. If someone is criticizing you, they are probably trying to help you, not hinder you. Try listening, rather than lashing back at them. This does not only apply to any one level of the users/staff, either.

Next, I think we all know that there were a few rushed promotions back in the day. If no one has gleaned it from my policy over the development section, I have a very strong opinion that quality is far greater than quantity. If there is no one to fulfill the job, it's better to be understaffed than to appoint incompetent moderators.

However, people should not be afraid to fix what they broke before, and admit they broke it. It's not like you're running for prime minister/president/etc and have a massive reputation which people will constantly be attacking to uphold. I can understand not demoting any semi-incompetent person since they're there anyways and you need the work done, but there are some people who have been generally agreed on as being just useless and a hindrance to the site. Get rid of them, for god's sakes (note: this was actually partially accomplished).

Next, everyone's favorite topic. Ghan. Don't get me wrong, Ghan tries to help out. However, he really needs to realize that often when he tries to help, he screws things up far more than he fixes. The main important point here is: don't step on other peoples' toes. People want to run their own section, heck, why were they put in charge of it otherwise (see above two paragraphs)? Therefore, keep your nose out of their business, please. This means letting people solve problems within their section except when absolutely urgent (pornography etc), as well as consulting them before taking any action you deem helpful. While I'm on this point, being active isn't useful. Doing stuff while active is (if you never post, but read every thread, you aren't contributing). If you need to tell people you're active enough, you aren't. Finally, you're the community director - Samuraid can handle the behind-the-scenes stuff, he does a good job of it. I have some more to say here, but that can be left in private, as it doesn't concern the public.

Next, social groups, and mostly the "Jury of Awesomeness." Social groups are just random nonsense, and don't mean anything they aren't specifically created to. People don't seem to realize that these days, and I've noticed it's caused a rather large war around here. That being said, quit with the fan clubs or otherwise - they're immature and pointless, with their only product being more flame wars. Take, for example, Team Haosis. In the few days of its existence, it managed to amplify the already existing war by epic proportions. Now, on to the jury. The jury is not an evil force of doom trying to kill you in your sleep. Neither is it a group dedicated to demoting MasterHaosis, taking over the site, "plotting shit", or otherwise. Even if there are a few users in it who stir up trouble, they represent the group no more or less than they represent the site. What is the jury really? It's a bunch of users who rant about what needs to be improved at the site, and have contributed massively to its development in the past years. Hopefully that can be realized and this whole "JoA" drama can be dropped.

That being said, bye all. I'll still be around a bit (primarily for the few contests I'm in), but I have no interest in moderating or posting much any more.


The reason this is in Site Discussion is because of the contents of the post (not including the I'm leaving bit) actually being relevant to the site.
 
Level 17
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I don't get it, you think we need more moderators, but we should also reduce our moderators because they aren't up to par? I guess that does make sense but, It Isn't the sites fault If there just aren't enough talented individuals to support moderation.


And that's one less talented Individual, which is why we need you to stay.
 
Level 36
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Mar 15, 2006
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It's true. I mean all of the greatest talent in WC3 left/stopped modding years ago. It's a fact that just can't be helped.

As for what you've said, I agree. I believe that a lot has been accomplished thanks to the Jury, that more needs to be done, but that most of it can't really be helped. Resource moderation is a stale job, especially when you have such a massive influx like we do.

As for the shameless fanboy groups? I don't see the harm in most of them. Look at the Church of Kharm. It was fun, shameless, but friendly and completely within rules and even ethical guidelines. I don't see why something like that should be prevented.

Either way, I've known you for quite a long time Poot, and you've always been the bastion of truth, reason, and calm, level-headed judgement on this website.

Thanks.
 
Level 27
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Feb 22, 2006
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The points you make are all extremely valid..
The one thing I have to say is if you want things to become better, you do have the power to start the change.. especially someone of your status. You're probably one of the most influential people in decisions. I do think that these changes should be implemented, and I'm sorry to see you go, because you were probably one of the few people who could actually press for the changes. Most, if not all mods around here, lack the common sense and fairness to your level, and I'm disappointed in the Hive for us losing such a valuable member and moderator.
However, I do empathize with you about finding it hard to find time for WC3 modding, as school can be very time consuming. I, too, find it difficult mod these days.

Well, farewell to one of the last mods who, in my opinion, actually made sense consistently.
--donut3.5--
 
A moment there I thought you were going to ditch the paired mapping contest, Poot. You almost gave me a heartattack!

That aside, I completely understand you resigning, I especially share your views on Ghan and the sites problems with critism in general. However I disagree with your views on social groups, things like "The Jury of Awesome" in my eyes is just there to mock other users, not that I have a problem with mocking other users, but if the site actually does try to be all grown up and legal and what not, having this sort of groups which seems to have the primary goal of harrasing others, does not fit into that image, no matter if they claim that their intentions is to help the site get better. The Hive is split between being unserious and having only a few nescesary rules, and being filled with strict rules, it needs to say either A or B.
 

Rui

Rui

Level 41
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Ah, I failed to see this earlier.

The criticism thing... was it about me?

Anyway, I have shared my points in "The State of Things" thread, so I won't state them here again. All I can say is that I agree with most (if not all) of what you said.

I don't get it, you think we need more moderators, but we should also reduce our moderators because they aren't up to par? I guess that does make sense but, It Isn't the sites fault If there just aren't enough talented individuals to support moderation.
(...)
I prefer to have the Pending Maps pilled up again over the low quality reviews that are made daily. If Warcraft III fan sites were a little more serious I'd be awoken a bit longer before I fall asleep.
And like everyone has pointed out already, the number of talented users dropped down a lot lately.

This won't last long anyway. Starcraft II is probably here next Summer.
 
Level 13
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Farewell. I can do nothing more than agree on nearly everything that you have said, and wish you an enjoyable future.
The only way to fix the situation is to make a drastical turn within the site, get stricter with the rules and indeed recruit more moderators. Compared to the anonymous users of the Hive, random skinners, modelers and (mostly) mapmakers, that throw in their resources, read a pair of comments and leave, the community of active users is way to small. The point is that even fewer members of this community are chosen as moderators and administrators. It is like trying to stop a tsunami with a few sticks and stones, when what is needed is a strong wall.
I prefer to have the Pending Maps pilled up again over the low quality reviews that are made daily.
When quality fails, quantity must be applied.
This won't last long anyway. Starcraft II is probably here next Summer.
We shall see. If the world editor from Starcraft II proves to be decent yes, if not, this site shall live longer than expected. Anyways, I suppose it will end up adapting to SCII.
 
Level 40
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The criticism thing... was it about me?
It was about a lot of people, not you, since you don't tend to post in very public discussion threads enough to give me an impression either way.

When quality fails, quantity must be applied.
Ugh, recent events lead me to believe this isn't the case, but people are entitled to their own opinions.
 
Level 13
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But still, it's one way or another. By getting more moderators, by sending more people to the "battlefield", there is more chance that someone can prove their worth and be discovered as capable to be an efficent moderator.
 
Well it sucks to see you go Pooty. You've done great in the time you were here. Unfortunately you are correct, the last remnants of greater talent and dedication in Wc3 Modders has moved on.

Even I have moved on. The odd time I may work on a reskin for Wc3, but I now dedicate most of my time to other semi-professional companies. The only reason I myself am still at the Hive is because I want it to hold out as long as it can.

I can only wish the best for you in your future and whatever else you plan to do at the Hive, in Wc3, and in real life.
 

Rui

Rui

Level 41
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(...)
When quality fails, quantity must be applied.
(...)
PurplePoot said it: everyone is entitled to their opinion. And my opinion is not the same as yours. In my opinion quantity over quality degrades the image of the site.

It was about a lot of people, not you, since you don't tend to post in very public discussion threads enough to give me an impression either way.
(...)
Nevermind, I guess I misunderstood you. You were talking about moderation and then you spoke of accepting criticism, I confused both in a wrong degree.

But still, it's one way or another. By getting more moderators, by sending more people to the "battlefield", there is more chance that someone can prove their worth and be discovered as capable to be an efficent moderator.
The fact that you call this a "battlefield" saddens me.

We're a Warcraft III fan site supposed to help other people develop their Warcraft III editing skills. And what we see everyday is lust for power, mockery on the newbies (not only them), hostile environment... this is everything a Warcraft III fan site isn't supposed to be... I understand now why people get tired. :S
 
Level 22
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> Is this community after all, full of hatred?

It is my hope that it is not.
And I have, and will continue to, combat disruptive and flaming members wherever they appear.

But, unfortunately, lately there has been quite a bit of disruption around here.
 
Level 13
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I used the word "battlefield" only to create an inocent metaphore without any second intentions, but yes, it seems that it aplies well to the situation. I just hope it improves.

Something else I forgot to say on page one.

Moderators are users. Administrators are users. If anything, they should be treated harsher. They shouldn't get off lightly.

Oh, also, just because someone is higher up than you, doesn't bar you the right to criticize them, provided it's constructive.

Completely right. I just wish some individuals remembered this.
 
Level 24
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All right, I bad at taking farewell of someone, especially when it comes to this crumbling community, everyone who isn't a AoS naruto map maker that leaves is a shame. Yes, wc3 modding is dying, but people like yourself Poot leaving does not make it better in any ways. YES, quality will always win over quantity, here at least. 90% of all maps in the database I would never play, simply because of their low, sucky quality.

Goodbye.
 
Level 40
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I realize that leaving doesn't help, but quite honestly I don't see why I should devote my life to fighting against thousands of people who are determined to be idiots, when all it does is make me unhappy.

The reason for my rant was that even if it wakes a few people up, that's a few less problems.

PurplePoot said:
Something else I forgot to say on page one.

Moderators are users. Administrators are users. If anything, they should be treated harsher. They shouldn't get off lightly.

Oh, also, just because someone is higher up than you, doesn't bar you the right to criticize them, provided it's constructive.
After re-reading that, I figure I should note that unconstructive criticism is no better or worse to any level of authority. Basically, what I'm saying is: criticize anyone constructively, and don't criticize anyone unconstructively since all it can accomplish is hostility.
 
Level 14
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Eh, but you arent fighting them alone, even if you think it. One more sensible man down, one more man not here to fight against thousands.

Yes though, your right, what you say now helps get things across, that may not have been stated efficently enough before.

~Asomath
 

Rui

Rui

Level 41
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First time I've heard that from anyone on the staff.
That's because it doesn't need to be said, users should know that.

The moderators here are too vindictive and for all the negrep and harsh words they give out, the amount of encouragement and help is minimal.
(...)
If you have received negative reputation then it's most likely by a good reason. I, at least, always state mine. Otherwise, you have the Admin Contact.
 
Level 13
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That's because it doesn't need to be said, users should know that.

And moderators too. That's the point. This is the center, the essence of all this. The division between moderators and users is becoming too big.
 
Level 3
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I never really contributed to this site, a post here and there but nothing much, however I have done a fair share of reading here and it is a shame to see you go Purple, but yes if you don't enjoy doing voluntary work it is best just to leave it go, good luck to you.



My opinion on this is maybe some people under estimate the amount of time a mod of any sort has to put in, so they would apply for being a mod thinking they can do the job, when / if they get accepted they then realise theres much more to it than they thought, however their pride won't allow them to admit they made a mistake, or they feel that it is a duty or something now so they can't just give up.

Over time they would probably get annoyed, taking their anger out on the people their doing these "duties" for, it is wrong but the way I see it, they can't actually help it, it's how their mind works. This is when higher authority needs to step in and intervene.

Now i'm not saying that is anyones case, as I have said I havn't contributed really so I havn't gotten to know anyone, but I could see what I said as being a problem.


Onto the critiscism part, it defintly is a big problem, I don't really know how you could solve it nor do I know their case, though a suggestion to tone down the problem could be when someone goes to submit a rescource or post their first post you could redirect them to a page that explains criticism and how they should expect it.

I know it sounds a bit silly, however I wouldn't be suprised if people really just don't know what it is, if they don't read that then well... I don't know theres not too much else you can do.

Also I have no idea if that could even be implemented, it's just a stab in the dark.

~Ben
 
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