Lag spikes in newer patches (1.31 , 1.31.1)

[Yours Truly]

Ever since I upgraded my Warcraft III to version 1.31, maps I play are constantly lagging out. I thought maybe 1.31 is a bit buggy, so I updated the version again to 1.31.1. The lag is still there. I have tried multiple ways to repair this issue:

- Repairing the game
- Using the "-graphicssapi OpenGL/D3D9" on a shortcute
- Windowed mode

All to no avail. I need help to fix this performance issue. My specs are:

Processor: Interl(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7300 @2.66Ghz 2.67GHz
RAM : 3.00 GB
System Type: 32-bit ( Yes, I'm using the 32 bit launcher )
Graphic Card : ATI Radeon HD 3400 Series, latest version

 

[deepstrasz]

Don't worry, it's the game version.

EDIT: honestly, it happens but not every time and not on just any map.
There are even issues in melee when heroes come out or with some spells like Thunder Clap or War Stomp.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

What kind of lag are you experiencing? I see many people claiming to experience lag in the newest patches, but I can't say I have noticed anything, except for lag caused by terrain deformations on huge map sizes with lots of varied terrain heights.

 

[Yours Truly]

I can't really explain how the lag works, because "Lag Spikes" are pretty self-explanatory.
But if you need a video evidence, I've uploaded one to let you see how the lag looks and feels like.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Possibly due to your systems lack of memory? 3 GB of main memory is not a lot to go on in this day and age. The low memory on the GPU may also be pushing it for some custom maps.

The latest patch is pushing Warcraft III towards modern PCs which have 8-16 GB of memory, 64bit OS and 2 GB of video memory.

You can try running in the Direct3D 9 mode instead of Direct3D 11. Some people report this performs better on older systems as Blizzard has optimized the Direct3D 11 shaders for newer GPUs.

 

[Yours Truly]

Possibly due to your systems lack of memory? 3 GB of main memory is not a lot to go on in this day and age. The low memory on the GPU may also be pushing it for some custom maps.

The latest patch is pushing Warcraft III towards modern PCs which have 8-16 GB of memory, 64bit OS and 2 GB of video memory.

You can try running in the Direct3D 9 mode instead of Direct3D 11. Some people report this performs better on older systems as Blizzard has optimized the Direct3D 11 shaders for newer GPUs.

That can't be it. My computer can run up to 60+ fps when playing War3. The lag spikes appear out of nowhere, dropping it to 1-10. I have even tested beefy maps, and the comp runs at 50-ish fps.

deepstrasz might have a point though, about the version being faulty. I've seen other performance complaints in the blizzard net about 1.31.

 

[Dr Super Good]

That can't be it. My computer can run up to 60+ fps when playing War3. The lag spikes appear out of nowhere, dropping it to 1-10. I have even tested beefy maps, and the comp runs at 50-ish fps.

So this is an issue with this map then? As other maps are running at 60+ fps with the latest version of Warcraft III? Which could be due to a lack of free memory?

If Warcraft III 1.31 is acting like this with all maps then your system might now be below the minimum requirements. In the process to make Reforged they are optimizing Warcraft III towards more modern systems with more memory.

Are you playing against AI? Like proper Melee style AI? There is a known issue that if the AI does not know what to do they will cause periodic freezes while thinking. This is especially the case if they are having to deal with complex pathing or trying to navigate land units between islands.

- Using the "-graphicssapi OpenGL/D3D9" on a shortcute

It must be either "-graphicsapi Direct3D9" or "-graphicsapi OpenGL" and only 1 must be present.

Also windowed mode adds extra overhead limiting performance to that of the desktop composer. Try "-windowmode fullscreen" as that is the traditional way Warcraft III used to run.

 

[Yours Truly]

So this is an issue with this map then?

Probably not. I've played a few melee maps, they all got lag spikes.

If Warcraft III 1.31 is acting like this with all maps then your system might now be below the minimum requirements. In the process to make Reforged they are optimizing Warcraft III towards more modern systems with more memory.

And this is making it hard for old players that was able to play Warcraft III completely fine with the older versions. I wish they made a latest version that isn't optimized for more modern systems.

Are you playing against AI? Like proper Melee style AI? There is a known issue that if the AI does not know what to do they will cause periodic freezes while thinking. This is especially the case if they are having to deal with complex pathing or trying to navigate land units between islands.

You might have a point. I noticed that they never actually used their abilities, so the AI might be a little bit bugged. Is there any workarounds for this? I think this might be the main culprit here. Non-melee maps runs smoothly on my comp.

"-graphicsapi Direct3D9" or "-graphicsapi OpenGL" and only 1 must be present.

Also windowed mode adds extra overhead limiting performance to that of the desktop composer. Try "-windowmode fullscreen" as that is the traditional way Warcraft III used to run.

-graphicsapi Direct3D9 doesn't fix the lag and it makes the models looks a bit glitched out. -graphicsapi OpenGL made Warcraft III completely black at the start, but I can hear the button noises and background music. I have tried using them separately, still lagging.

I will try that fullscreen and see if works any differently.

 

[Dr Super Good]

And this is making it hard for old players that was able to play Warcraft III completely fine with the older versions. I wish they made a latest version that isn't optimized for more modern systems.

Hard to mix the two as they need to keep in sync with each other. In fact it is even hard to build such versions anymore as the compiler sets and libraries aimed at older systems are no longer supported. For example soon MacOS will only run 64bit applications, which is one of the reasons the legacy team has no choice but to add and push 64bit support.

I am not even sure how many more 32bit Windows versions of Warcraft III will be released. Blizzard dropped support for 32bit from most of their current games a year or so ago.

You might have a point. I noticed that they never actually used their abilities, so the AI might be a little bit bugged. Is there any workarounds for this? I think this might be the main culprit here. Non-melee maps runs smoothly on my comp.

One might be able to fix it by rewriting/updating the AI. I know that the default melee AI is quite broken at the moment due to the recent melee balance changes being made without updating the AI to cope with them.

 

[Yours Truly]

How can one go about rewriting the AI?

 

[Dr Super Good]

How can one go about rewriting the AI?

I would imagine by modifying the JASS AI script files. For custom AI this may be easier than the melee AI.

I am pretty sure AI will be fixed in a few months for Reforged. Hopefully we can see some improvements to it as well.

 

[Yours Truly]

I would imagine by modifying the JASS AI script files. For custom AI this may be easier than the melee AI.

I am pretty sure AI will be fixed in a few months for Reforged. Hopefully we can see some improvements to it as well.

As in fixing the script file on a map via triggers or by editing an AI file within Warcraft's data?

I'm really hoping they release another patch that would fix this lag along with Reforged.

 

[Dr Super Good]

As in fixing the script file on a map via triggers or by editing an AI file within Warcraft's data?

The AI script files in maps, or using map imports to replace the AI script files from the game data.

 

[Yours Truly]

Any idea where the AI script file is located in the Warcraft folder?

 

[Dr Super Good]

Any idea where the AI script file is located in the Warcraft folder?

The default ones are located inside the CASC file system used for the game data. There is usually a copy located in the local storage it uses.

User made ones will be imported into the map MPQ archives.

 

[Yours Truly]

The default ones are located inside the CASC file system used for the game data. There is usually a copy located in the local storage it uses.

User made ones will be imported into the map MPQ archives.

Can't find it. Can you give me the path?

 

[pyf]

Ever since I upgraded my Warcraft III to version 1.31, maps I play are constantly lagging out. I thought maybe 1.31 is a bit buggy, so I updated the version again to 1.31.1. The lag is still there. I have tried multiple ways to repair this issue:

- Repairing the game
- Using the "-graphicssapi OpenGL/D3D9" on a shortcute
- Windowed mode

All to no avail. I need help to fix this performance issue. My specs are:

Processor: Interl(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7300 @2.66Ghz 2.67GHz
RAM : 3.00 GB
System Type: 32-bit ( Yes, I'm using the 32 bit launcher )
Graphic Card : ATI Radeon HD 3400 Series, latest version

Warcraft 3 Stutter - Post #6 - Classic Games Tech Support

Could be a shot in the dark by Zuvykree, but maybe it is worth a try anyway?

 

[Dr Super Good]

Can't find it. Can you give me the path?

The root for the CASC is located at the install folder C:\Program Files\Warcraft III.
The configuration files which list the virtual file system data files are located at C:\Program Files\Warcraft III\Data\config.
The locally stored file data is located at C:\Program Files\Warcraft III\Data\data.

I suggest you use CASCView to view the locally stored file data.

 

[Yours Truly]

I'm getting an error when trying to open the Warcraft data folder. It says:

| Failed to open storage "D:\Warcraft3\Data". |
| Not enough storage is available to process this command." |

Loading the data with "Blizzard Online" seems to work though.
So anyways, I've checked the AI Scripts folder in the data, and it seems that there's a complete set of .AI and .PLD files for each races. Which one should I fiddle around with? The .AI or the .PLD one?

 

[Dr Super Good]

So anyways, I've checked the AI Scripts folder in the data, and it seems that there's a complete set of .AI and .PLD files for each races. Which one should I fiddle around with? The .AI or the .PLD one?

The .pld files are preload files with preload function calls. The .ai files are the ai scripts. You want to mess with the .ai files.

 

[Yours Truly]

I just checked again and it seems like there's 3 versions of AI scripts. Each has their own set of .AI and .PLD files.

• One set is located in "custom_v0.w3mod" folder
• The other is in "custom_v1.w3mod" folder
• And the last one is in "melee_v0.w3mod" folder

I realized this has something do with a map's Game Data Set ( which I've already toyed with, and the lag still persists ). Should I edit all of them or just one? And if so, what are changes that I should make to remove the lag spikes that comes with the latest patches?

 

[Dr Super Good]

For TFT melee you want none of those. You want the AI files located in war3.w3mod:scripts.

A good starting point is to confirm the AI is the problem. Modify a melee map to be TFT and change data set to current (not custom map or default). Disable the melee AI trigger so that there is no AI running. If there is no stutter AI is then the problem and one can proceed. If there is still stutter then AI is not the cause and it is back to the drawing board to find the cause.

If the AI is the cause then one can try disabling parts of the script (comment out or delete), import and then test until the stutter goes away. Once the part causing the stutter is located one can try to debug and fix it.

The issue is usually caused by the AI being unable to do something. For example unable to place a building or path to an enemy to attack. There might be other logical bugs with it.

 

[Yours Truly]

I can confirm that the AI is indeed the problem. I have tested out multiple non-melee maps and the game runs smoothly.

The AI scripts has soo many lines, and I'm not even sure what to do with them. Best I can think of is to retrieve an old copy of the AI script from an older patch of Warcraft 3 (patches where the AI works without fail) and use them to replace the new ones and just hope for the best.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The AI scripts has soo many lines, and I'm not even sure what to do with them. Best I can think of is to retrieve an old copy of the AI script from an older patch of Warcraft 3 (patches where the AI works without fail) and use them to replace the new ones and just hope for the best.

This is unlikely to work. The most likely cause would be that Blizzard did not update the AI scripts since the previous patches to reflect recent Melee balance changes. The AI is probably breaking because it tries to perform something that the new melee balance does not allow it to.

Could you give me clear instructions how to recreate this issue? Like what map to choose and what AI players to select and what teams to place them on e.t.c? I plan to poke the AI files a bit to see if I can find the cause and possibly a solution but to do this I need to know when the stutter occurs and what to look out for.

 

[deepstrasz]

This is unlikely to work. The most likely cause would be that Blizzard did not update the AI scripts since the previous patches to reflect recent Melee balance changes. The AI is probably breaking because it tries to perform something that the new melee balance does not allow it to.

I remember they only fiddled with the Undead and Orc techtree, well, the Human too but only for a mere bonus spell, the Night Elves remaining in the safe zone (except for a minor Tranquility invulnerability edit) and still not working?

 

[Yours Truly]

Could you give me clear instructions how to recreate this issue? Like what map to choose and what AI players to select and what teams to place them on e.t.c? I plan to poke the AI files a bit to see if I can find the cause and possibly a solution but to do this I need to know when the stutter occurs and what to look out for.

Any melee map would probably recreate the lag spikes. Teams, I don't think they matter. I have randomized them a few times and it doesn't make that much of a difference. I'm sure the AI's race still have the lag. I have tested a map with 4 Human-only players, 4 Orc-only players and so on, but nothing changes.

However, this one time, for some reason, doesn't lag at all. I didn't made any documentations on it, but I remembered reinstalling War3. The first melee game that I played does not have this lag. It was running at 50-60ish fps without any freezing. I thought it was just a coincidence, so I tried reinstalling again. The same thing happens. The first melee game I played runs smoothly, but after that one time, every other melee games continues to have the lag spikes.

I am not certain if this has anything to do with the lag spikes, as it's probably just something on my end.

 

[deepstrasz]

The same thing happens. The first melee game I played runs smoothly, but after that one time, every other melee games continues to have the lag spikes.

When playing in a row? What happens if you start the game again?

 

[Yours Truly]

Only way to find out is to reinstall the game again.....

Pass.

 

[deepstrasz]

Only way to find out is to reinstall the game again.....

You've misunderstood. I'm asking you to play a melee match after starting the game. Then, play some more. When does the lag start from the first match or after it? If it does start after it, restart the game and play a melee match, does the lag persist?

But maybe you meant the first match as in the first one since you installed the game basically meaning that all matches coming after it will lag independently of restarting the game or the computer. And that doesn't really make too much sense.

 

[Yours Truly]

You've misunderstood. I'm asking you to play a melee match after starting the game. Then, play some more. When does the lag start from the first match or after it? If it does start after it, restart the game and play a melee match, does the lag persist?

But maybe you meant the first match as in the first one since you installed the game basically meaning that all matches coming after it will lag independently of restarting the game or the computer. And that doesn't really make too much sense.

I see. I'll test that one out tomorrow. Does sound feasible.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense, but it is what happened. I can't deny what I saw.

 

[Yours Truly]

It turns out playing another match after the first one doesn't do any good. It still lags.

So, I've tested another method. I played a match where everyone is hostile towards each other (no teaming).
Doesn't lag for some reason. The game ran at a steady fps. It was a 1v1v1v1v1v1 , total of 6 players.

 

[deepstrasz]

Try this and tell me if the FPS is better:
Warcraft 3 AI cannot learn Hero spells (fix!)

 

[Yours Truly]

Apparently, that map has some kind of an unknown trigger.

The "Hero Spell Choose" one. It doesn't look like any trigger type I've seen before. And it contains absolutely nothing in it.

 

[deepstrasz]

The "Hero Spell Choose" one. It doesn't look like any trigger type I've seen before. And it contains absolutely nothing in it.

Ask the person who made it about it then.

 

[Yours Truly]

Seems like he fixed the trigger file. Sadly, his solution doesn't help abolish the lag spikes. But it did restore the AI Heroes' inability to level any skills. That's one step closer to mending back this broken patch.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The "Hero Spell Choose" one. It doesn't look like any trigger type I've seen before. And it contains absolutely nothing in it.

Looks like a custom script trigger to me. Those were added in 1.31.1 along with nested trigger folders and global variables in the trigger tree list.

Sadly, his solution doesn't help abolish the lag spikes.

Could you create a replay demonstrating them and confirm that they still occur when played back? If so then please upload the replay so others can confirm that they also get the same stutter as you.

 

[Yours Truly]

I play solo though, so "others" can't really experience the lag in the same game as I am.
(I don't have a BNet account)

 

[Dr Super Good]

I play solo though, so "others" can't really experience the lag in the same game as I am.

Should still generate a replay file when you leave the game. All one has to do is confirm the stutter on the replay and then upload it here for others to try the replay and confirm it stutters as well. If others do not get a stutter then it is something with your system causing them.

 

[pyf]

@xYours Trulyx: any news regarding this issue?

 

[Yours Truly]

Kinda forgot about this thread. Haven't tested the replay thing yet. I just play games where no one is teaming. That doesn't lag for who knows why.

I'll test this replay one out as soon as I can. Expect news tomorrow.

 

[Yours Truly]

Okay, so I've played a game where the lag spike occurs, and I've saved in it a replay file. All I need is for people to play this replay with the latest version and see if they have the same lag spikes. Files can be downloaded below.

 

[Dr Super Good]

You need to link the map to playback the replay.

 

[Yours Truly]

Didn't know that. Map uploaded as well.

 

[deepstrasz]

Where does the lag occur, around which minute?

 

[Yours Truly]

Pretty much randomly. From start to finish.

 

[deepstrasz]

Yep, there are lag spikes in the replay.
Played it a little with normal races, 2 players in each team and lags occurred for me when units were trained, buildings completed, stuff like that.

EDIT: I think the AI might be the sole cause for some reason.

 

[Yours Truly]

EDIT: I think the AI might be the sole cause for some reason.

I can confirm this. The lag spikes happens when the AI are teaming. Playing a game where no one is teaming does not lag at all.

 

[deepstrasz]

I can confirm this. The lag spikes happens when the AI are teaming. Playing a game where no one is teaming does not lag at all.

Otherwise it lags only when they finish training heroes.
This AI issue should be reported in the bugs thread.

 

[Rui]

The AI already generated lag in older patches. It used to happen frequently in large team maps. Almost certainly it has something to do with the AI calculating its decisions.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Can confirm the stutter occurs even with ludicrous hardware.