Iskaal River v 2.04

[WolfFarkas]

Reserved.

Any comment, feedback, sugestion, critic will be welcome.

Status: none

V 2.04

 

[mafe]

Just a short look, as I care more about the map contest right now:
-I never bothered about the underground (or whatever its english name is) tileset because I wasnt convicned by its looks. But I have to say I like the looks here.
-Map is tiny (pun intended), but basically all paths are blocked by creeps so it could work out. I think you made good use of the limited space.
-Lizard creep will attack trespassers. Contrary to usual practice, I might be worth setting all but the one closest to the edge of the map to camp stance.
-Non-dense trees; hidden path near southwest shop.
-Limited building space, in particular near the closer expansions.
-No tavern (nightelves will hate it, necessary for balance.
-Random Anubarak????? Oh and some other too.
-Itemdrops tend to be much higher than on comparable creepspots on standard maps.


.......


Maybe I shouldve read the description first....

 

[Pinzu]

In my oppinion the design behind the map is too bland/generic/uninspiring. Without trying to come off as too much of an art critique this looks more like a race track running accross a river. The story or history if you will of this river is not conveyed in a convincing manner.

Are we under ground? How did we get there? Why are we fighting here? What are the creep doing? Do they fit together or are they just randomly picked? What's so special about this place? Is it elven, human, undead, orcish, etc?


Study for example Terenas Stand, Turtle Rock, Echo Isles. Each map has a fitting name, but more than that, you can actually get an idea of what sort of environment it is when you play it and what's going on there. Just to make quick one word associations:

Echo Isles -> Galapagos, adventure
Terenas Stand -> Royal, Human, Historic
Turtle Rock -> Hand of Midas, the living island, turtle island.


Perhaps if you expanded it's size you would have room to add more depth. Another thing that sticks out is how flat the terrain is and the number of gold mines for such a small map.

It's intresting that you can't actually get to the other player without first killing the creeps blocking your route, but it makes for very static and boring game play.

 

[WolfFarkas]

About this map, as 64x64, I like the challange, is harder because you dont have much space, and I played a lot Hills of Glory a ROC Blizzard map. Also I like to see how many things can you put in a 64x64.

 

[Pinzu]

I haven't played your map so I wouldn't know if it's boring or not based on experience, what I mean is that I personally from playing other maps that feel restricted, find them somewhat more boring (in general).

About the name or history - I didn't mean to say your map has an inapropriate name or lack history, it doesn't. I mean't to say that it's not conveyed that well in each individual scene if that makes sense? For example, when I see murlocs here that actually works for me. I think "murlocs are sly bastards and OF COURSE they would get into a strange place like this, they are murlocs after all" however when I look at other parts or the thing as a whole, the theme doesn't stand out so well, or is not very memmorable.

I'll grant you that underground terrain does have somewhat limited synergy with other doodads. An example of underground terrain with more 'living history' perhaps could be the wc3 campaing scenario where Illidan is released.


To summerize: More variation and try to construct a few 'scenes'.

Perhaps the kobolds have a camp, perhaps the whole cave is infested with kobolds. Perhaps there is some magic enshrined in the fountain, how could that be made more obvious then just placing the mana fountain there, etc.

Your history speaks of a path to the lich king, perhaps having a entrence/exit caves and some sort of road through the middle or base the thing around some sort of path would work and then adding a river ontop of that. The road could go from the bottom left to the top right and through the river (or from one base to another as it does now (?) - if so make it more clear!)

In the TFT campaign there is a cave-road map where you meed the Anub-Araks, not that you have to copy that, just putting it here for reference.

I wasn't really tying to be negative just convey a point, I'm sorry if youd didnt find it useful.

 

[deepstrasz]

1. Lizards are kind of weirdly placed near mines.
2. Units which look like other original game units are considered custom and is a no-no.
3. There's only one Murloc in the western part of the river.

Overall, a generic, simple design.

Awaiting Update.

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[WolfFarkas]

1. Lizards are kind of weirdly placed near mines.
yeah mafe spoted that, I will see what can be done with that
2. Units which look like other original game units are considered custom and is a no-no.
Got it
3. There's only one Murloc in the western part of the river.
Didnt notice, thanks

Overall, a generic, simple design.

Awaiting Update.

=======================================

Always check/recheck the Map Submission Rules! (Map Submission Rules)

If you want more reviews, come here:
The Grand Review Exchange!

will update

 

[deepstrasz]

You should update the pictures where pictures aren't anymore.
Not all creeps have 100% mana from the start. Set the mana to full. If selecting them all doesn't work, do it for each.

Changes made,
Approved.

 

[The Panda]

Ive always loved this tileset and the mushroom trees.

 

[Zephyrius2412]

If you want...

Tell me if you need other previews like this.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Thanks Zephyrius2412, I use it and give credit to you.



Edit


V 2.01
-Remade the map from 0 in 96x96

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

The remake looks and plays very well. Creeps are mostly balanced, though there are some exceptions:

One unit with 475 hp drops two items at a Mercenary Camp - this means that a Blademaster and a Grunt can kill that unit and get away with the items while losing less than half their own hitpoints. Maybe you could divide the items among two units or use a tougher creep as the item carrier?

The Goblin Merchant camp is another issue - the positioning of the creeps and the fact that the trees make the area very narrow allows a Blademaster and a Grunt for killing two Level 4 Creeps, taking their items and getting away to safety afterwards. Probably removing some trees would fix this issue. There's a screenshot below for reference.


Although I like the design of the corner expansions (they remind me of Starcraft: Brood War with that chokepoint), their drop is a bit too rewarding, considering their creeping difficulty - they drop items of the same level as the red camps do, yet they're possible to do with just a level 1 Archmage, 3 Footmen and 5 Militia. Getting an item such as a Mana Stone or a Health Stone is pretty big. Also, I think these expansions could use a bit more trees - it really feels like there are way too few.

I feel like the expansions near the river are a bit too broad and open, especially when compared to the other expansions which are much more secure due to their long chokepoint. I'd suggest using a bit more trees to make it safer to expand to since right now, I'm afraid that the other expansion, although a bit further away, is going to be the preferred expansion for the majority of players (plus, the Lizards' splash damage counters Militia heavily, so it's actually easier for Human to do the corner expansion).

I'm quite impressed by the map's pathing and overall layout. The visuals are quite amazing, especially for an Underground map whose undifferentiated and mostly dark colour theme tends to make it tiresome to look at. The doodads are placed well and though they are easily noticeable, they don't interfere with the gameplay, which is great (I especially like those streams pouring into the river). Even though I'm not a fan of dark maps myself, I have to say that I really appreciate your map's visual aspect.

Considering everything I've said, I think that the map is of very high quality. I don't have much experience with the previous version, but the remake is definitely on point and working well. It's just the issues I've mentioned that are holding this map back. Apart from that, well done!

 

[WolfFarkas]

The remake looks and plays very well. Creeps are mostly balanced, though there are some exceptions:

One unit with 475 hp drops two items at a Mercenary Camp - this means that a Blademaster and a Grunt can kill that unit and get away with the items while losing less than half their own hitpoints. Maybe you could divide the items among two units or use a tougher creep as the item carrier?

The Goblin Merchant camp is another issue - the positioning of the creeps and the fact that the trees make the area very narrow allows a Blademaster and a Grunt for killing two Level 4 Creeps, taking their items and getting away to safety afterwards. Probably removing some trees would fix this issue. There's a screenshot below for reference.
View attachment 287906

Although I like the design of the corner expansions (they remind me of Starcraft: Brood War with that chokepoint), their drop is a bit too rewarding, considering their creeping difficulty - they drop items of the same level as the red camps do, yet they're possible to do with just a level 1 Archmage, 3 Footmen and 5 Militia. Getting an item such as a Mana Stone or a Health Stone is pretty big. Also, I think these expansions could use a bit more trees - it really feels like there are way too few.

I feel like the expansions near the river are a bit too broad and open, especially when compared to the other expansions which are much more secure due to their long chokepoint. I'd suggest using a bit more trees to make it safer to expand to since right now, I'm afraid that the other expansion, although a bit further away, is going to be the preferred expansion for the majority of players (plus, the Lizards' splash damage counters Militia heavily, so it's actually easier for Human to do the corner expansion).

I'm quite impressed by the map's pathing and overall layout. The visuals are quite amazing, especially for an Underground map whose undifferentiated and mostly dark colour theme tends to make it tiresome to look at. The doodads are placed well and though they are easily noticeable, they don't interfere with the gameplay, which is great (I especially like those streams pouring into the river). Even though I'm not a fan of dark maps myself, I have to say that I really appreciate your map's visual aspect.

Considering everything I've said, I think that the map is of very high quality. I don't have much experience with the previous version, but the remake is definitely on point and working well. It's just the issues I've mentioned that are holding this map back. Apart from that, well done!

the previous version was 64x64 ugly

- wood markets, + wood expanding bases, change loot, all got it
2.02 will be on the way
thanks a lot

edit: I implemented all your sugestions, thanks again


v 2.04
- Red creep level 26 now is level 23 (changed one lizzard level 9 for one lizzard level 6), level 26 creep is to much for 1vs1.
- Split the loot of the red creep. Two items were looted by the wildkin, now 1 item is looted by the wildkin and another is looted by the lizzard.