Is GUI enough to make a good map?

[elm0]

I've read in some forums that vJass is better than GUI and therefore it will not lag that much compared to GUI. But I dont have that much time to learn vJASS. So is GUI enough? The map I'm planning to make is a hero arena map.

 

[GreeN!X]

Of course. Well, it would probably be easier to use some premade systems, but you can absolutely make a great map using plain GUI. There won't be noticeable difference between VJASS, JASS or GUI as long as you code it right.

 

[elm0]

I feel a bit relieved to hear that hahaha. Are there any famous AoS or Hero Arena maps that were made of GUI?

 

[GreeN!X]

Old versions of DOTA were made purely of GUI. I'm not quite sure with the newer ones though but it's pretty obvious that most of the skills and systems are in GUI.

Most anime arena maps too are made entirely/mostly of GUI, but they do use JASS/VJASS systems from hive and other sites from time to time. There was also a FF Arena/td I've played that was open source. Gameplay was very smooth even with complex spells and it's made entirely of GUI. Even their DDS (Though not very effective).

 

[elm0]

So there's no problem if you combine jass/vjass and GUI in a map? I was planiing to learn vjass slowly while making the map.

 

[Boar]

Right, so this is where you are misunderstanding things

GUI is just the graphical representation of what you *can* write in jass, Everything you write in GUI can easily be done in Jass

Jass is the underlying scripting language that these GUI functions use, ie Move Unit to X uses SetUnitPos() or something similar.
Everything that is written in Jass can mostly be implemented through GUI even though it may be a wee convoluted in implementation

 

[GywGod133]

it depends you if you want to learn vjass or wurst script or GUI.
so.... does not mean if you use vjass, no lag in-game
it depends your coding

so for me.. all my maps is coded by GUI
but actually im also learn vjass and wurst script

 

[IcemanBo]

Yo I agree that you can make playable and lagless maps with GUI.

Still you have to use some custom scripts to prevent leaks... and as AKA.GywGod133 said, it also much depends on your coding. The more triggers/system you have, efficiency becomes more important.

If you have huge and complex ideas you might face the limit of GUI, but in general of course it's possible.

 

[edo494]

Old versions of DOTA were made purely of GUI. I'm not quite sure with the newer ones though but it's pretty obvious that most of the skills and systems are in GUI.

Most anime arena maps too are made entirely/mostly of GUI, but they do use JASS/VJASS systems from hive and other sites from time to time. There was also a FF Arena/td I've played that was open source. Gameplay was very smooth even with complex spells and it's made entirely of GUI. Even their DDS (Though not very effective).

Any proof dota spells are in GUI? Because you know, Icefrog, who maintains Dota now actually worked on Dota 2, I dont think Dota 2 spells are in GUI, and many things that Dota uses is not possible at all to do with GUI without massive leak and lags(Yes Im talking about DDS, in which dota uses dynamic triggers, which are impossible to create with GUI)

GUI is good enough, but you need to know like 5 functions(RemoveLocation and such) to fix leaks

 

[GreeN!X]

Any proof dota spells are in GUI? Because you know, Icefrog, who maintains Dota now actually worked on Dota 2, I dont think Dota 2 spells are in GUI, and many things that Dota uses is not possible at all to do with GUI without massive leak and lags(Yes Im talking about DDS, in which dota uses dynamic triggers, which are impossible to create with GUI)

GUI is good enough, but you need to know like 5 functions(RemoveLocation and such) to fix leaks

Ofc DOTA 2's spells aren't in GUI. It's a different game.

Seriously though, Ancient Apparition (Mostly Buff checks), Earthshaker(Lots of GUI spellpacks available), Axe(Uses "Unit is attacked" event), LifeStealer(Buff check, dummy units), Pitlord, Skywrath, Techies, Earth Spirit, and a lot of other heroes' spells can be done in GUI. And with the release of resources such as PnF's MoveSpeedX and Bribe's Is Unit Moving, Bloodseeker can be done easy peasy with the global blood thirst and rupture. Their teleport system might be a bit more complex because of the use of TC'ed SFX but I think it would be possible. Also, there won't be massive leaks and lags if the coder knows what he's doing, and afaik, dota has some pretty skilled coders.

I did not say that the CURRENT version was coded purely of GUI. I was referring to the old versions and I said I wasn't sure with the newer ones since I am not that knowledgeable in coding and I can only judge by how the spell works ingame.

 

[edo494]

I will not argue about Dota anymore, since I cant get hold on Icefrog's release with script. But to proof that map can be done fully by GUI is The Azeroth Wars, the map is done fully by GUI, maybe few custom scripts, but as far as I know no Jass or vJass involved

edit: So ive got my hands on the script of one of the newest version of dota(6.79b) and it in fact consists of 0 GUI whatsoever

 

[elm0]

Even the latest Azeroth wars is GUI? I was planning to make a map like Bleach vs One Piece because that's what inspired me to make maps. So is it possible with GUI? I dont wanna waste my time making the map with GUI, only to find out after I spent a alot of time with it, that it has a lot of bugs and lags like hell.

 

[edo494]

your maps can have bugs and lag like hell even if you use Jass/vJass/Zinc/WurstScript. And yes Ive had a look at the script, and the whole map is made with "good" old GUI.

GUI is made for people that dont know or dont want to bother learning Jass, so if you dont feel like it, GUI is sufficient in most of the things, but you will have to download some systems that may be in Jass for your map for some interesting features(Damage detection for instance)

 

[Timo]

GUI is enough to make the best map in the world. with jass you only have more options and possibilities.

im working with GUI too and costum scripts. sure i got some jass systems but only for things i cant make in GUI even my fullscreen hero selection is in gui (with trackables)...

 

[elm0]

Thanks for relieving me of my dilemma . Well then, I'll post my map here when I am done. +rep to all who responded

 

[GreeN!X]

Good to hear that elm0, if you need any help with your map, you could ask me.

0 GUI whatsoever

Alright, since our topic is not really fit here, I'll just accept that for now. But that doesn't mean I believe you nor proves that your statement is true. Saying you saw the script and it contains zero GUI whatsoever does not prove anything at all.

 

[edo494]

well, it disprooves your claiming of "Dota being made with GUI". I cant say if the old version were made with GUI, but that the new one has no GUI in it, and since Icefrog didnt most likely rewrite the whole map's script(it has 80 thousand lines(optimized), that would take ages to edit), it has been in Jass for quite long time now.

I am disprooving your claim at post 4 of this thread

 

[elm0]

Good to hear that elm0, if you need any help with your map, you could ask me.

Thanks! I will soon

 

[Chaosy]

(v)jass gives the user a few more features, and a little more freedom in terms of coding. But it's nothing extremely useful about it really. (expect GetLocalPlayer() if you make a multi player map)

 

[edo494]

(v)jass gives the user a few more features, and a little more freedom in terms of coding. But it's nothing extremely useful about it really. (expect GetLocalPlayer() if you make a multi player map)

sure, local variables and functions are fully useless

 

[hdm]

I am also trying to learn Jass, but this fucked brain cells killer omdevil system is impossible.

 

[Chaosy]

sure, local variables and functions are fully useless

Hey! I didn't say useless while locals are useful I wouldn't say they are needed to make an amazing map

 

[edo494]

I was primarily joking and yes you dont need that to make good map.

I believe Frotty or someone from the Wurst boys have in signature one really good thing: "Gameplay makes maps fun, not systems"

 

[Chaosy]

I know, but I couldn't resist to add the ogre face. And yes that's Frotty for 'ya.

 

[Vinz]

Their teleport system might be a bit more complex because of the use of TC'ed SFX but I think it would be possible.

When I was trying to put my own heroes in DotA last year I saw in the map's MPQ, multiple teleport sfx for the ten players. So it's not TC'd, multiple models. :3

I am also trying to learn Jass, but this fucked brain cells killer omdevil system is impossible.

JASS is similar to other programming languages like C+ or lua. Even format things like HTML or BB codes. If any of those are taught at your school JASS' learning curve will be easy.
...Though it is the weirdest of them all.

 

[TZK203]

When I was trying to put my own heroes in DotA last year I saw in the map's MPQ, multiple teleport sfx for the ten players. So it's not TC'd, multiple models. :3



JASS is similar to other programming languages like C+ or lua. Even format things like HTML or BB codes. If any of those are taught at your school JASS' learning curve will be easy.
...Though it is the weirdest of them all.

I think JASS is actually somewhat between the difficulty curve of somewhat easy - somewhat hard (so normal) because many of the functions listed in it will be used over and over again, so you'll gain an understanding of them eventually of what each do. The problem is how to write in such a way that it doesn't leak and you understand what the spell you want to create has to do.

Also have to be somewhat clean in your formatting--can't let laziness get in the way!

 

[sethmachine]

If you're going to be making a single map just for fun/because you can, then it is probably not worth your time to learn vJASS, unless you have a programming background.

However, if you are going to be a serious mapper and want to develop high quality map code that is portable, can be re-used, and is easy to change, then go with vJASS. A huge advantage of vJASS is that it can be written in a sandbox environment, e.g. Notepad++, and because it's text based, you can do all sorts of text macros and scripts to mass produce code, which you will probably need to do by hand in GUI (copy + paste, replacing values, etc.).

Of course, the time it would take to learn vJASS sufficiently (assuming a zero background in computer science/programming) might be close to the time it would take to do the map in GUI (but I think any adult can learn vJASS regardless of programming background quite quickly).

 

[Vinz]

JNGP and jass sourceforge can help well with functions. I personally only know a few functions, but I look it up when I need it.

 

[elm0]

Thanks for all your advice. I guess I'll go with GUI for now with the map creation. I'll take it slow in learning vJASS and re-make my map with vjass if I ever become good at it.

 

[GaLaxY_256]

In truth. GUI is lagless if you know about GUI
[trigger=Will lag if]Lagging Trigger
Events
Unit - Unit start casting an ability
Conditions
Casting ability equal to Lagging Spell
Actions
Set OMG!! = Casting unit
Unit - Spawn 1 Lagging Unit at location of OMG!! facing Default Building Facing
------ And etc ------[/trigger]
Thus it will lag if you don't add like this

• Unit - Remove Last Created Unit from game

Will clear some lag

• CustomScript: Call RemoveLocation(udg_OMG!!'s Loc!!)

Will complety clear lag

 

[Vinz]

Killed units, non heroes, are removed after their decay time. Can be configured in Gameplay Constants.