But I thought I'd leave it here for everyone to laugh at 
Cuz there is nothing negative XD and i think warcraft is getting old, i guess in 2011 it won't have alot of players and there won't be any tournaments etc.
My sources LIE 
Erm, paying him, providing the team, and taking the risks isn't exactly "riding off his success".
![Dreadnought[dA]](/data/avatars/m/134/134647.jpg?1465504677){kind=avatar}
You make it sound like he just stole the map and passed it on as his own without making any changes? If you compared the originals to IceFrog's newer versions they just aren't the same game
That was a little harsh to be fair
IceFrog may not have been it's original creator, however, he developed the map far beyond anyone's expectations into something incredibly popular
IceFrog put a lot of effort into the map and fully deserves the job opportunity he was given
valve just bought out one of blizzard's assets
He owes a lot to his predecessors as you rightly stated
I take pride in sharing my resources with other people, and openly encourage fellow-mappers to create mods of it 
Diablo III Warcraft is an open-source map
If someone took the map and modded it sufficiently to make it better and unique, I'd have no objections
lmao, but on topic, i hope it will turn out to be good and not like demigod.....
What if they made no effort to indicate that you or others had any hand in the making of the map or the resources? I think most people would be rightly annoyed.Diablo III Warcraft is an open-source map
If someone took the map and modded it sufficiently to make it better and unique, I'd have no objections
I would sue ppl who would mod my maps badly and mock me XD
I had the opposite impression. Though teamwork is essential in a game like this, DotA is no exception. Though perhaps you need more individual skill in DotA simply because the heroes are more intricate. Without teamwork, it doesn't matter how skillful you are in neither games. Agreed about HoN, but that's one of the things DotA needs - the possibility to actually play public games (some people just don't have the time and devotion to play in a clan)without everyone leaving once they realize they'll lose.Dreadnought[dA];1387128 said:
One could argue Eul stole it from everyone else that made AoS' (I honestly don't know who invented it). The point is that both IceFrog and Guinsoo brought a lot of new inventions to DotA, and increased its popularity greatly. Besides, both Eul and Guinsoo are receiving sufficient credit (admittedly, I don't know if that credit has always been there, but I believe it has).
Concepts are passed on, get over it. As far as I know Eul did not develop it further, so Guinsoo brought it to the next level, then he gave up on it and IceFrog took over. DotA would not have been where it is today if it wasn't for all three. You make it sound like all Guinsoo and IceFrog did was to add units and items in the Object Manager. They did a whole lot more than that.
It was not as popular as DotA is now, it was on the same level as everything else (at least in Europe) - various Arenas and TDs were a lot more popular. There's more to a map than the initial idea, further development (bugfixing and expanding) is the larger part of the job. Could compare it to making a drawing - first you sketch it, and it takes a lot of inspiration and creativity to come up with the right idea. Then you work on the sketch to make it into something substantial, perhaps you have to tweak it a bit to make it better. Then you start fleshing out the details, and make the finishing touches. IceFrog is in the tweaking state. Eul made the sketch. Valve and IceFrog will perhaps do the finishing touches.
Credits are a way to thank people who directly or indirectly helped with the map. Some people care and it is as much a matter of polity as anything, as people assume that everything was made by you (the map maker) unless you say otherwise.
Why wouldn't you leave when you realize you've lost? It is hardly fun when it becomes a one-way stomp.
What about all the coders and resource makers, not to mention the people whose implemented ideas (spells mainly) were unceremoniously stolen (without credit)?
You make the stupid assumption that DotA getting more popular over time is due to the makers and not the fact that everything else is in fact dying off (which seems to be the case). It's not like DotA hosting has greatly increased; rather, hosting of other games has decreased much more so.
Wouldn't it be just great if the losing team in a football match just left the arena? Seriously, just 'cause it seems your opponents are great, it doesn't mean you can't win (or more importantly, can't have fun). For instance, with a team made of late-game heroes versus a team of early-game heroes. The early-game team will dominate the first 20 minutes, perhaps 30 minutes, and then the late-game team will take over because the early-game heroes can't keep up (unless they already finished the game, which is a possibility). Now, with the current morality of public DotA players, the game would never get to the point where the late-game team wins, because half of that team has already left.
The popularity grew because of the map and because of the community, not because some TD is getting less popular. DotA games (especially inhouse) did increase to a certain extent, and that's not because of anything else than DotA itself. If you stop hosting TDs it's not like more people will play DotA. Besides, DotA is on the decline, the core players that have been with it for a long time are getting old (including me), we're just not that passionate about it any more. IceFrog with Valve is a last scream to those players, as well as a stunt to get more new players to the community. There's nearly no DotA games hosted on BNet anymore, it's crowded with Arena this, Zombie that..
How do you know Eul doesn't get anything from all of this? He's the one who came up with it, just seeing it's success is a reward.
I don't know about America or Asia, but in Europe it's not even taking up 10%, it's hard to find a DotA game on BNet.Dan van Ohllus said:
