DotA 2

[Nudl9]

I find it odd that there are no DotA 2 threads around here.
Anyway i would like to keep this clean, sceptism is welcome, but people who dont like DotA at all just gtfo - you dont belong here.

For those who still dont know Valve has announced that they will make DotA 2 with the "help" of Icefrog.

Heres the blog for DotA 2: DotA2.com
Initial announcement: Gameinformer.com


So for the reason i created this thread, what are your thoughts about this game?

Personally i think that copying DotA 100% which valve are doing now is pretty wrong. Considering that there already is a DotA 2.0, which is HoN. Not only did S2games make a perfect successor, but they also took all the interesting concepts from the crap heroes and turned them into interesting hybrid heroes. While Valve with DotA 2 are blatantly ripping off a shitty mod.

Valve are not bringing anything new to the whole AOS/DotA scene (other then hurr durr bots lol) and what bothers me is that none of the current DotA rip-off's gave any cred to the whole aos scene. Which have existed even before DotA or aligned at the same time. With ToB being the greatest example.

 

[Tyranid]

Gotta have to agree with you about the whole remake thing. It just sounds like they are making the old DOTA with better graphics, yet there are way better and more advanced varieties already out. I mean there is LOL, HoN, the original DOTA and hell there is even a pretty good DOTA in Starcraft 2 (SOTIS), and soon Blizzard DOTA.

I just don't see how this will compete, unless it's going to be free.

 

[Total_Warrior]

This is going to be interesting.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Well, the main advantage will be a dedicated game engine for it. Thus ideas that were axed from WC3 dota will be implimentable. Additionally it would be a more direct upgrade from WC3 dota unlike the others like LoL which are substitutes.

It also could allow for further extension to the game (as I am sure WC3 must be limiting DotA in some way). This could include alternative areana sets (terrain variation for mood), hero flavours and more. Ofcourse, more heroes will be an option I am sure he will take eventually (as that is a major reason people like DotA) and adding them will not make the map load time take redicliously long (in WC3, the map load time increased as you needed more objects). Better graphics and tuned interface will make playing better (removed WC3 interface, added more useful things like wide screen support, bigger minimap and other useful features). It also will give them more control over players as the game will probably use their vac security (valve game) meaning cheating will be much harder and more often punished.

 

[RegisteredID]

It also could allow for further extension to the game (as I am sure WC3 must be limiting DotA in some way).

I believe so, sound effects and skill graphics effects are limited due to map size limit.


I think the Dota2 is for the better. Sure it's a total rip off, but i feel that wc3 has had it. Wc3 has been alive mostly because of dota and it's other custom maps. Comparing it's current graphics and recent games graphics, i think it is very much obvious. However, warcraft dota is kinda.. classic? LOL

 

[Miss_Foxy]

I believe that DotA would still be prospering even with DotA 2 out, maybe it'll even attract more players to DotA from DotA 2.

 

[Nudl9]

It also could allow for further extension to the game (as I am sure WC3 must be limiting DotA in some way). This could include alternative areana sets (terrain variation for mood), hero flavours and more. Ofcourse, more heroes will be an option I am sure he will take eventually (as that is a major reason people like DotA) and adding them will not make the map load time take redicliously long (in WC3, the map load time increased as you needed more objects). Better graphics and tuned interface will make playing better (removed WC3 interface, added more useful things like wide screen support, bigger minimap and other useful features). It also will give them more control over players as the game will probably use their vac security (valve game) meaning cheating will be much harder and more often punished.

According to the "secret behind icefrog" valve employee blogger its going to be a 100% port, so i kinda doubt theres space for original twists or any of that sort. Except maybe with the newer heroes. It will be interesting to see what Valve has done to the art though, i can imagine the terrain being alot more beautyfull then both LoL and HoN while maintaining a neutrality that doesnt obscur the gameplay like LoL. HoN earns cred for maintaining a neutral terrain which adds focus to the beautyfull hero models. The graphics will definantly be alot better aswell, but will it be able to run with low graphics? The reason why DotA is so immensely popular is because its free and has low system spec. requirements. Alot of people pirate wc3 just so they can play DotA. That is why it will be interesting to see who will race for the asian market first, whoever does will likely win a huge playerbase. As for anti-cheating this can easily be performed through using own servers for games like S2 has done with HoN. It is near impossible to use maphack unless you hack their servers.

edit:

Q: Are you going to work on DotA after DotA 2 is released? (by Jack Lee)
A: I plan to keep DotA updated for as long as the community wants. That being said though, I think that DotA 2 represents the long term future for the game.

 

[Leak-]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/114/1143122p1.html

not much new information, except for the confirmed heroes.

 

[MortAr]

How is HoN a sucesful DotA equavalent?
Theres nothing good about this game but its graphics.

As for DotA2, on the other hand, playing a stand-alone game from the
legendary creator of the series, which bring its popularity would be much better.

DotA clones (not only it's stand-alone games like LoL and HoN) these days are
much more retarded than the Warcraft III one, giving it a bad name in the future.

Sad part was when Ice actually announced he will be continue working on DotA
as a Valve employee.. Blizzard had the chance to pick him up and probably
totally dominate over other companies such as Valve.

This being said, DotA 2 will absolutely be the best stand-alone game made
as a represent of the famous DotA series. People trolling and bitching about it
will also buy it/play it in one or another way...

 

[Dr Super Good]

Meh, it will be just like the others. Although it probably will have the best value for money ratio.

 

[Nudl9]

Smells DotA fanboyism, c'mon just hear out the current features.
They bring nothing new to the "DotA" scene, they all just sound ridicolous and silly.

Icefrog is the worst gamedesigner of the century.

 

[Super-Sheep]

I will buy it if I will get hats.

 

[Hemske]

Well, the main advantage will be a dedicated game engine for it. Thus ideas that were axed from WC3 dota will be implimentable. Additionally it would be a more direct upgrade from WC3 dota unlike the others like LoL which are substitutes.

It also could allow for further extension to the game........

Super Good said all that needs to be said by that whole post.

And that "secret behind icefrog" seems like trolling/attention-whoring or just plain bullshit. Valve themself have said that Icy is very easy to work with and a hell of a guy. And that guy that is claiming that Icy is "poisoning" the company, states that he does not even work with him, so how would he even know?

Not only did S2games make a perfect successor, but they also took all the interesting concepts from the crap heroes and turned them into unbalanced heroes*fixed that one for you. While Valve with DotA 2 are blatantly ripping off a shitty mod.

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA. Erhm, whops, sorry. Just couldn't hold it.
You say no people that dislike Dota should post here, yet it sounds that you don't like it in particular yourself.

The perfect "successor" as you state it, is a messy (graphic/gameplay-wise) rip off from the "shitty mod" (also known as Dota, which is played by over ten million players all around the globe, must suck donkeyballs this crap mod).

Don't take me wrong though, I play HoN myself, and I am enjoying it, it is a good game, and it is fun. But it is not Dota, and will never be as good as Dota.
Reasons:
-S2 do not understand a game like this, they have no experience in a genre like that.
-Their own heroes are, well how should I put it... Always way fucking better than the ones ripped from Dota! I wonder why..?
-Their graphics is messy and "undecided", some cartoony, some serious, some detailed, some plain. It looks weird.
-They do not take advantage of having a completely different engine for making the game. The heroes are heroes that one could create in the editor.
Damn S2, fucking use your options!
-It is a worthy substitute until Dota 2 comes out, when it gets released, HoN will fade away like dust in the wind.
-It is NOT Dota. Period.

Valve is not ripping off anything, what the hell is that kind of argument supposed to say?
Warcraft 3 is ripping of a shitty game called warcraft 2.
Civilizations 4 is ripping of a shitty game called Civilizations 3.
Counterstrike: condition zero/source is ripping off a shitty mod called Counterstrike.
F.E.A.R. 2 is.... I can do this all day.

 

[Nudl9]

And that "secret behind icefrog" seems like trolling/attention-whoring or just plain bullshit. Valve themself have said that Icy is very easy to work with and a hell of a guy. And that guy that is claiming that Icy is "poisoning" the company, states that he does not even work with him, so how would he even know?

That may aswell be a way of earning the players trust no? The whole idea behind DotA is to draw the fanboyism into the sequal.

You say no people that dislike Dota should post here, yet it sounds that you don't like it in particular yourself.

I was referring to people whom may have wanted to close the thread because OMGDOTA IS SO SHIT rather then a constructive discussion about the game. I'm not a particular fan of DotA myself and i wasn't untill HoN came along and i got a beta account. HoN overall appeals more then DotA.

The perfect "successor" as you state it, is a messy (graphic/gameplay-wise) rip off from the "shitty mod" (also known as Dota, which is played by over ten million players all around the globe, must suck donkeyballs this crap mod).

Actually HoN is very successfull with it's graphics: The system specs. are ridicolously low compared to how good it looks and it is very customizeable. Designwise it's pretty good too, the terrain leaves the focus on the heroes rather then the flashy background (compared to LoL's rainbow trip or DotA's super green grass) and the spells aren't really that flashy and disturbing as certain people claims it to be.
Gameplay-wise it's not too bad, it lacks a few carries and support heroes to fill in the roles and could use some rework on DR, Myrm, Devo(more hook, less nom) and WS(too regular pick).

-S2 do not understand a game like this, they have no experience in a genre like that.

What is it that there is not to understand? Where do you think they got the idea of making DotA as a standalone game, perhaps from playing it no?

Their own heroes are, well how should I put it... Always way fucking better than the ones ripped from Dota! I wonder why..?

Referring to the newer heroes i suppose, well they aren't really that much better. Bomb got nerfed, DR's still sick (unless ganked earlyearly) and Myrmidon is likely expecting a nerf anytime soon anyway seeing all the complaints in the forums.

Their graphics is messy and "undecided", some cartoony, some serious, some detailed, some plain. It looks weird.

Sounds more like a personal opinion rather then an argument.

They do not take advantage of having a completely different engine for making the game. The heroes are heroes that one could create in the editor.

Vector-targets? Charge spells? Bombardier as a whole is a prime example.

It is a worthy substitute until Dota 2 comes out, when it gets released, HoN will fade away like dust in the wind.

With the huge playerbase HoN has? I doubt so.

 

[Hemske]

I am glad to see that you could answer without aggression, good to see there exist people on Hive that you actually can discuss things with.

Actually HoN is very successfull with it's graphics: The system specs. are ridicolously low compared to how good it looks and it is very customizeable. Designwise it's pretty good too, the terrain leaves the focus on the heroes rather then the flashy background (compared to LoL's rainbow trip or DotA's super green grass) and the spells aren't really that flashy and disturbing as certain people claims it to be.

I didn't meant the graphics is bad, they are good. And do what they are supposed to do. It is just that many spells goes with the same color-scheme, or very much alike each other at least. Which makes it quite messy in big gang fights, with many big AOE ultis. I know many people are whining about the messy graphics just because they can't tell what is going on, but I've played this game for a very long time, and I can tell what is going on, but it gets quite messy sometimes in HoN. I find that opinion valid.
Dota's super green grass as you state it, is not Dota's, it is WC3's. You can't blame Dota for a thing like that.

What is it that there is not to understand? Where do you think they got the idea of making DotA as a standalone game, perhaps from playing it no?

They do not understand the art of balancing. They do huge balancechanges on heroes that seem overpowered. First they nerf them, instead of little att a time they nerf it enormously. Then they realize that the hero went to crap, and then they buff them to infinity, just to see they have became overpowered once more, and the cycle goes over and over...

Referring to the newer heroes i suppose, well they aren't really that much better. Bomb got nerfed, DR's still sick (unless ganked earlyearly) and Myrmidon is likely expecting a nerf anytime soon anyway seeing all the complaints in the forums.

I don't find Myrmi, or DR too crazy. I am more thinking of Mali/Pred/DW.
Myrmi is just overpowered in people who can't play's eyes. (no offense meant if you find him overpowered.)
I don't find DW overpowered in the same way that many noobs do, fyi.

Sounds more like a personal opinion rather then an argument.

Actually, there is a lot of people finding that annoying, I have seen many complaints about it.

Vector-targets? Charge spells? Bombardier as a whole is a prime example.

Bomb's charge spell is approved. Well, vector target is annoying, but that would be my personal opinion. It is too slow function for a game like Dota/HoN. The other spells are doable in Wc3 I think, but I am not so good in triggering.

With the huge playerbase HoN has? I doubt so.

Hon's playerbase<Dota's. I think there is more people than me that are just playing HoN while waiting for Dota 2.

 

[Nudl9]

Well some spells tend to make alot of mess like Plague and Chrono ultimate, aswell as other excessive sfx usage.
As for DotA's terrain, there are alot of other options that would suit better such as Ashenvale grass/grassdirt which blends better and doesn't create a messy background.

The balance changes tend to be pretty severe sometimes i can definantly agree to that, they would do better if they actually had a proper test group and addressed more to the protier players.

Most spells are pretty doable in Wc3, but could require alot of hardcore triggering. ToB O is a great example of where the wc3 limits were pushed even further.

Myrm's coldown's is the problem, they're way too short. 10 sec coldown for a linestun ability is pretty sick.

I am more thinking of Mali/Pred/DW

They all seem pretty underpowered if you ask me, kinda sad because they're a few of the original and fun (carry) heroes that are interesting.

Even if DotA's playerbase is significantly bigger, there will still be alot of players around - playing both games or either. Similiar to how there is crossovers from LoL <=> HoN.

 

[Hemske]

I can agree on the Myrm problem, the cooldowns are quite short.
Pred is like a Naix with a leap, 'nuff said.
Mali is not overpowered. As long as he doesn't get much farm. If he get much farm he gets unstoppable. (much more than regular carries. Might be my opinion though.)
DW is only crazy in the beginning, but the synergy between his spells are just plain stupid, and compare his ulti to pyro/WS. His is way better and slows, and reduces strength, and stuns. Plus deals huge damage.

I am certain HoN will have enough players even after Dota 2's release, but I am also quite certain many will quit and go over to Dota 2.

 

[Septimus]

Dota's super green grass as you state it, is not Dota's, it is WC3's. You can't blame Dota for a thing like that.

You can always use custom import, but then again IceFrog was way too focus on hero that he simply ignore it.

Icefrog is the worst gamedesigner of the century.

Cannot argue with that, especially if you know most of the origin of it.

As for dota 2, it would definitely garner sufficient support but I was wondering if the system requirement would be too high or not. If it was rather high, it might lost a small portion of fans.

 

[Nudl9]

As for dota 2, it would definitely garner sufficient support but I was wondering if the system requirement would be too high or not. If it was rather high, it might lost a small portion of fans.

They would lose a large portion of players from mid-Europe and Asia simply because it's not free and of the high system spec requirements.

 

[Hemske]

They have stated that Dota 2 will be playable on lower spec computers. Quoting from Dota 2's website.

The goal is to make sure that people with older computers and the PCs at LAN centers will be able to support the game, while also allowing for newer computers to scale well.

 

[Septimus]

They would lose a large portion of players from mid-Europe and Asia simply because it's not free and of the high system spec requirements.

How much does it cost?

They have stated that Dota 2 will be playable on lower spec computers. Quoting from Dota 2's website.

How low it can be?

 

[Hemske]

Probably not as low as Warcraft 3's requirements.
But those computers will have to be at least 5-10 year old computers, and most people tend to update their computer.
I haven't changed parts in my own computer for 6 years and it can still play HoN/LoL.
I would be surprised if the requirements for Dota 2 would be higher than the ones for HoN/LoL.

 

[Leak-]

http://3anime.com/dota-2-heroes-preview-to-be-announced-on-comic-con-2011/1355

 

[Super-Sheep]

http://3anime.com/dota-2-heroes-preview-to-be-announced-on-comic-con-2011/1355

Want to buy gameplay videos!

Even 1 second would be enough for me. Why are you doing this Valve?

 

[Nudl9]

That means we have to wait till april for previews, do not like. :/

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Although I think otherwise, somehow most players I know claim that they would prefer the Warcraft III's classic DotA compared to it because of it's... Classic-ness.

 

[Leak-]

no reason you can't like and play both