VALVe's Dota 2 Copyright Issue

[APproject]

Hey.

I don't know if Off-Topic is the right place for this thread, but I'm giving it a shot.

Probably many of us knows that there are plenty of Dota 2 ripped model material out there that can be used in Warcraft 3 TFT. I happen to use this ripped material in my own project and I was warned by Hive members about the copyright issue that it is illegal to use Valve's material and a proper permission is needed for it.

So I decided to send an email to Valve asking for a permission to use Dota 2 model material in Warcraft 3 Map legally without any ownership claims towards hiveworkshop.com where it will be uploaded BECAUSE:

1. I do not use this material for any profit based purpose or merchandise.
2. I do respect Valve's work and give it a proper credit without deeming their work as my own.
3. My work is free for everyone to obtain, because it is a fruit of a hobby, which is modding for fun.
4. These materials are to be used only to increase the overall gameplay quality of a map absent any other purpose.
5. I would not abuse it in any way and this use of materials pose no threat to any material used.

They did not reply for weeks and I doubt if they ever will even if I sent several copies of a letter to different emails of Valve.

Later on I read about these issues on various steam and non-steam related forums. Some say it is okay as long as I do not profit from it, video materials are the same - it is fine as long as there is no merchandise.

I must be too naive, but I tried searching the exact asnwer to my question in various Valve policies and I could not find it or I simply happen not to understand.

So is it okay to use Dota 2 models in Warcraft 3 as long as I do not profit from it and so on? Could anyone give me a detailed explaination that it is illegal by providing me quotes from copyright law of Valve's Dota 2 materials or somewhere else what is reliable? I know, usually it is illegal and so on, but is this an illegal act in terms of this material use and considering it is Valve with their own laws?

Thank you.

 

[GhostWolf]

I am not sure about the technicalities, but most companies don't give a damn if you use their stuff for non-proft projects.
Especially for an arbitrary WC3 map only a handful of people are going to play.

Then again, as we can see in the new Youtube trend of removing every video as any company in this world sees fit for "copy right infringement" (which is of course a blatant lie in nearly every single case), you can never know who will try to stick it into your backdoor.

 

[APproject]

I am not sure about the technicalities, but most companies don't give a damn if you use their stuff for non-proft projects.
Especially for an arbitrary WC3 map only a handful of people are going to play.

I like your attitude. But Hive rules forbid to use resources from other games as long as there is no permission.

Then again, as we can see in the new Youtube trend of removing every video as any company in this world sees fit for "copy right infringement" (which is of course a blatant lie in nearly every single case), who knows what they will do.

What concerns Valve, it encourages uploading videos of their games and fully allow it as long as it is non-commercial and do not distribute separate files.

 

[PurgeandFire]

AFAIK DotA 2 doesn't come with its own ToS, but it is all covered by the "Steam Subscriber Agreement":
http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

Note:

G. Restrictions on Use of Software

You may not use the Software for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions, and to make personal, non-commercial use of your Subscriptions, except as otherwise permitted by this Agreement or applicable Subscription Terms. Except as otherwise permitted under this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use), or under applicable law notwithstanding these restrictions, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, publish, distribute, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Software or any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent, in writing, of Valve.

And:

C. License to Use Valve Developer Tools

Your Subscription(s) may include access to various Valve tools that can be used to create content ("Developer Tools"). Some examples include: the Valve software development kit (the "SDK") for a version of the computer game engine known as "Source" (the "Source Engine") and the associated Valve Hammer editor, The Source® Filmmaker Software, or in-game tools through which you can edit or create derivative works of a Valve game. Particular Developer Tools (for example, The Source® Filmmaker Software) may be distributed with separate Subscription Terms that are different from the rules set forth in this Section. Otherwise, you may use the Developer Tools, and you may use, reproduce, publish, perform, display and distribute any content you create using the Developer Tools, however you wish, but solely on a non-commercial basis.

I don't play DotA 2 personally, so I haven't tried out their SDK. I would naturally assume that using their materials would be illegal. But that isn't the question you should be concerned about. The question of concern, in my opinion, is: Will they do anything about it? No, as long as it is for non-commercial purposes (free).

As for the hive, we have a rule against game exports:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/rules-information-710/general-resource-rules-239647/
(first rule) But I assume it would be fine if it is legally allowed. I suppose if you exported them with the SDK, then you might have rights to use the assets non-commercially, so you could always make that argument.

 

[APproject]

Thank you very much, PurgeandFire, I hope this will be a valid argument.

 

[Adiktuz]

The thing with videos taken from a game is that they are somehow "free advertisement" for the company... while directly using their materials on another game is another story...

btw, does the models come from the SDK (if Valve even have one for DotA 2)?

Otherwise, you may use the Developer Tools, and you may use, reproduce, publish, perform, display and distribute any content you create using the Developer Tools, however you wish, but solely on a non-commercial basis.

From the way I understand this line, it means you can use the developer tool and distribute anything you made with it as long as it's non-commercial... the keyword would be THE DEVELOPER TOOLS...

anyway, my personal take on that matter is that, if it's unclear, better stay away from it...

 

[APproject]

There are developer tools to export and import models from their games, I googled it up. There is a forum for development and modding of Dota, also a direct tool such as Blender, plenty of other links there. I am not 100% certain though, but close to it. This seems fair enough, because it allows to mod Dota 2 models.

 

[Adiktuz]

There are developer tools to export and import models from their games, I googled it up.

which Valve made?

If they publicly allow modding DotA 2, then I guess that's fine

 

[APproject]

Well this is some slippery matter, because it requires a lot of research to to have the answer for everything, but Blender itself is from valve's website, so I guess it is legal.

 

[Adiktuz]

wait, Blender can export valve's models? or are those models already outside and available?

 

[Dr Super Good]

Valve has absolutely insane copyright strictness. Blizzard even changed "Blizzard DotA" to another name due to communications from Valve lawyers. In WC3 you would likely get away with maps using them as it is poorly moderated but in SC2 you can be sure that such maps will be quickly pulled down. Hive Workshop will probably reject such material as well as far as I know as they want to avoid any form of legal action against them.

Oh and do not think it is the employees of Valve or any company that developed the stuff doing this. It is all law firms that represent them with freelance lawyers which make money from suing everything that moves due to copyright.

 

[APproject]

wait, Blender can export valve's models? or are those models already outside and available?

Yes, it export models. Models on the internet are most likely exported using this tool, yet I am not 100% certain.

Valve has absolutely insane copyright strictness. Blizzard even changed "Blizzard DotA" to another name due to communications from Valve lawyers. In WC3 you would likely get away with maps using them as it is poorly moderated but in SC2 you can be sure that such maps will be quickly pulled down. Hive Workshop will probably reject such material as well as far as I know as they want to avoid any form of legal action against them.

What concerns Blizzard, I guess they had the right to it. But this material is not used towards mechandise or commercial purpose in warcraft atmosphere, so according to agreement's restrictions and license it should be fine using it this specific way, it just pose no harm to anything. Same way with Starcraft I suppose, they pull down the map, but I doubt if Valve could take action, unless this agreement could be denied with proper arguments or these materials are used in any other way that is unacceptable for them.

I contacted Ralle about it, he seemed to approve it with the modification of basic import rules that now also require a proof of company letting using their material.

 

[Adiktuz]

I know Blender can export, what I was actually asking is that if it can export models from inside DotA 2? or maybe Extract is a better term... I'm asking since my original query is if that there is an official Valve tool for exporting DotA 2 models, and you replied with a Blender link...

 

[APproject]

In order to extract model from Dota 2 developer tools such as GCFScope and Cannonfodder's StudioCompiler are used, then it is imported into Blender and from there you make the models. All these tools are featured in Valve developer's community, so this should be legal.