Huge Project Which I may be in over my head on!

[aussj5link]

Hi all! I am taking on a huge project and I am hoping that despite the massive amount of work it will take, that it is feasible and possible. My aim is to create World of Warcraft in WC3: TFT. I've done a few searches online for other peoples attempts and they all seem to run into the same major problem which is map size limitations. I think I may have a way to work around this problem and really make people feel like they are playing WoW. I would like to try using a custom campaign that strings together many maps to create World of Warcraft without smashing it down to fit one map.

I know that the simplest way to play World of Warcraft is to just PLAY World of Warcraft. However, I have played the game for many years now and have found over time that I absolutely LOVE the game. What I don't love is the people you have to deal with and the monthly cost or the requirement for being online. (I've always been more of a single-player type and internet isn't feasible on our current income at the moment.) So, in order to fix this I decided to see if I could make WoW in WC3.

I have played custom campaigns in the past that allows a player to transfer data from one map to another and back again. I am hoping that with this I can essentially create several maps that would allow players to use the entire world.

I have also played maps that made great use of the camera, allowing players to have a camera at nearly any angle on a given unit including First Person! I would, of course, like to have a camera that uses adjustable angles similar to WoW. Again, I ask if this is all feasible.

I know that maps have a limit to their data sizes and as a result there will have to not be many, if any, custom models or sounds. It's sad that people have made such amazing models for WC3 but the limitations make it impossible to fully explore their potential. I will be using nothing but stock resources for these maps.

I have begun working on the terrain for Eastern Kingdoms starting from Stormwind Harbor. It still needs loads of work and detail but I need to know if my proportions I am using for the models and everything will fit okay. It's been a few years since I have touched the world editor and as such I am not the best with it currently, but I will learn. What I need to know is if this is something that can be done with enough time, effort, and patience. I also know that as it stands right now, I need resources - screenshots, maps, npc names and locations, etc. as I cannot currently jump into the game and get the details I need. I have been forced to google search for images of Stormwind. I found enough images on the Harbor that I have been able to start creating it in the editor. So far I have ran into a few complications with ramps and terrain textures and what not. I would like to attach the map so that people can view what I have so far ad possibly lend a hand in understanding what I mean with this project. Thank you for reading all this and any help that might be offered would be greatly appreciated and welcome.

 

[Caruzo]

I have seen a lot of World of Warcraft WC3 maps but I have no idea if all of the features (or most of them) are implementable in the World Editor.

I wish you good luck and keep me in touch, I would be really interested in following your progress.

 

[aussj5link]

Thanks! I don't know either, but I have seen people do some amazing stuff with the world editor. I just hope this isn't too far fetched.

 

[Wietlol]

I made some MASSIVE sized maps by simply making the models smaller and decreasing the distance to target of the game camera.
This however is not very good to do in your maps because you dont just want to increase the map by 100% but rather by 10000%.
Maybe it is an idea to increase the map size a little to decrease the amount of map switches you are gonna make.

But to the real point.
You can navigate through the campaign levels without any problem by using substrings, and adding some integers.
First of all, you need to give your maps the same name with two integers that represent the position of the maps.
Like "MyWoWRemake00.w3x", "MyWoWRemake31.w3x", "MyWoWRemake30.w3x", "MyWoWRemake52.w3x", "MyWoWRemake29.w3x", "MyWoWRemake01.w3x", etc, etc, etc.

If you come too close to the edge of the map. You simply save the location of the unit on the map and revert either the X or the Y (depends of what edge), set the next level to "MyWoWRemake" with the number where you added or removed 1 or 10 and ".w2x" ofc.
Then you move to the next level and you set the hero location to the saved location.

You should be able to make it dynamic without problems.

You cannot go below 0 ofc and not above 99 either, you may want to consider to make it a 4 digit number to enable a total of 10.000 maps
(100 X 100).
(Also start with a bit higher than 0. If you want more maps to the top or the left, you can always add them until you reach 0.
I suggest you to make a plan before the maps.)

 

[aussj5link]

Thanks for that! I'm trying the method of scalling things smaller than normal to create the illusion of a bigger map, but not too much as there appears to be collision issues with taking things and making them too small. Eventually, I'd like to have a map set aside for every instance and section of the world, which means a lot of maps lol. My main problem right now is terrain editting, doodads and props, and getting the details right. I wish I had WoW active so I could simply take my character and run around screenshotting everything I need... I'll continue to google search images of the right angles I need. Specifically, right now I need to know what the entryway between the Harbor and Stormwind looks like.

 

[aussj5link]

Also, one thing I was wondering about what how I could make certain doodads walkable. I saw an option in the unit properties of the doodad but checking the box next to "Walkable" didn't appear to do anything as my unit was still unable to walk on it and operated as if it were a wall. The doodad is the docks I am using.

 

[Wietlol]

Above the walkable field, there is another field that is called pathing texture (sometimes called pathing map)
That field is a picture with certain colors that represent pathing.

If you want to remove the pathing restrictions, just remove that value.
Check out this tutorial about pathing files and how to use them... you will use them eventually.

 

[aussj5link]

Above the walkable field, there is another field that is called pathing texture (sometimes called pathing map)
That field is a picture with certain colors that represent pathing.

If you want to remove the pathing restrictions, just remove that value.
Check out this tutorial about pathing files and how to use them... you will use them eventually.

Thanks!

 

[aussj5link]

Ran into a bit of a problem with certain doodads I'd like to use. On the harbor there are these parts that look like the tops of scout towers which I assume is used for cover during an attack. I figured the easiest way to do that would be to simply make a doodad with the scout tower model and then use Ctrl+Page Down to lower it into the ground until only it's top is visible. This would work great except for the fact that when the scout tower model is used as a doodad it will continuously cycle between the scout tower model and the cannon tower model. So I figured if that was going to happen I would simply use the actual scout tower unit and just give it the Locust ability and then lower it into the ground on the map. Didn't work... It seems only doodads are capable of elevation. Anyone know a fix for this?

 

[Xonok]

You can make the height negative in object editor.

 

[aussj5link]

You can make the height negative in object editor.

Awesome, I'll try that, thanks!

 

[aussj5link]

Hmm, doesn't seem to be working. Do I need to change anything else about it? I change the movement height to -0.50 but that seemed to have no effect. I thought maybe there had to be a movement type so I changed it to Fly think that would make it's vertical position able to be changed but that had no effect either.

On a different problem, I need to know if there is a pathing texture setting that will allow me to place doodads where ever I want without limit but will still block units from passing through. The reason is for the towers and walls I need to put together on the map that is a part of Stormwind. Thanks!

 

[Xonok]

0.5 is a very small height difference. Try something like 50.

You can hold down shift to overlap doodads a bit. Still won't be able to place them in exactly the same spots.

 

[aussj5link]

0.5 is a very small height difference. Try something like 50.

You can hold down shift to overlap doodads a bit. Still won't be able to place them in exactly the same spots.

Oh ok. I thought that the numbers represented more of a percentage like 0 being ground level which would mean that -0.50 would put it half way into the ground and 0.50 would put it in the air by half it's height.

As for the doodads, that kinda sucks that there is no way to overlap without setting the pathing texture to none. I might need to check out a couple of tutorials on how others have figured out how to build good looking castle walls and what not.

 

[aussj5link]

So it worked and now I have the scout towers the way I needed them, thanks so much! Also, I figured out how to make the wall. The wall is in segments on course and I figured I only need the bottom portion to block units with. So I made 2 different walls, one with Pathing and one without which allowed me to build the base with the pathing ones and the higher parts with the ones that don't have pathing. After I have this section done I'll make a screenshot and upload it.

 

[Xonok]

It's good that you have creative solutions. It's what makes the difference between mediocre and good in programming.

 

[aussj5link]

Ok here's some screens of the progress and what I'm basing it off. I've still got quite a bit of work ahead of me but I think it's coming along nicely.

 

[Wietlol]

Nice start. However the use of Blizzard cliffs is totally ruining the terrain.
There is a tutorial about how to make smooth cliffs and make them really nice but I can't find it right now.
Also take your time and give it to this tutorial. It will be usefull for you.

 

[aussj5link]

Nice start. However the use of Blizzard cliffs is totally ruining the terrain.
There is a tutorial about how to make smooth cliffs and make them really nice but I can't find it right now.
Also take your time and give it to this tutorial. It will be usefull for you.

Thank, I'll take a look at that tutorial.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Hey I can make vJass stuff, just tell if you need some kind of system.

 

[aussj5link]

Hey I can make vJass stuff, just tell if you need some kind of system.

Oh man, I'm definitely going to need that in the future. Right now I have a lot of work ahead of me in the terrain but in the future I do plan to have a system for quests, item storage, abilities, talents, and professions to name a few. At the moment I've been reading about the cliff making but Iseem to be having trouble making the cliffs at a straight incline which I need for the walls and walk-ability.

 

[Wietlol]

Maybe ask for some experienced terrainer to guide you to a certain point.
There are a lot of excellent terrainers around here that can learn you a lot of how to do something and how to keep it simple.

For the systems... There are also indeed a lot of amazing vJASS/JASS programmers in here that can make everything you need.
In fact. The system is the same for every RPG (with small modifications in how professions, talents, etc. are used.)

 

[aussj5link]

Seems I have ran into another problem. The scout towers I was using for the bunkers on the harbor are lowering perfectly on the editor, but when I went to test a couple of pathing blockers I put in to prevent people from running right up mountains, I noticed that in-game the towers are sticking up out of the ground incorrectly. Anyone know why the editor is showing the towers in the correct spots but in-game they are refusing to get in their spot?

Edit: I'm wondering if using too many pathing blockers can be a problem in the future. I'm going to be using quite a lot due to using the terrain raising and lowering method to create everything. Am I looking at a laggy or unstable map further down the line if I continue to base a lot of the map around blockers?

 

[aussj5link]

Ok I figured out the issue with the scout towers. Apparently if they all too close to an edge, despite the fact they have no pathing map, the game gets confused and moves them away from the edge in a seeming random fashion. As for the height not being correct, it seems it doesn't set the height correctly if the movement type is set to Fly, instead, Hover is what it needs to be set to to be at the correct height in game.

I just finished creating the wooden stairs I needed using a bunch of table doodads and I am now working on the straight incline I need for the cliffs. I was told I needed a certain txt file in a folder named "UI" in the WC3 folder in order to make the incline I need, but even with that, it seems to be giving me trouble. I will continue to update my progress and thank you all for your help.

 

[aussj5link]

Progress is being made! It's slow right now, but as I learn more I accelerate in the terraining and what not. The mountains right now are really just a base image right now that I will be altering to look better in the future, but for now, my aim is to create the stairway leading up to Stormwind from the harbor and then adding tons of details with various doodads. When it's done I think it will look pretty good, unfortunately I'm not able to do everything I wanted, but I still think this is gonna look pretty great. Thank you all for your helps and any more tips you can give me are always appreciated!

 

[Sabertooth]

Why imitate WoW, auss?
I dig your drive and your big idea mentality, but I think you should apply it to a world of your own. Recreating World of Warcraft has been done a thousand times, and, honestly, I don't want to play "just another WoW-close attempt", I'd rather play a mediocre game in your world. This will also allow you to add neat features/remove features that are too hard / time consuming to implement.

 

[aussj5link]

Why imitate WoW, auss?
I dig your drive and your big idea mentality, but I think you should apply it to a world of your own. Recreating World of Warcraft has been done a thousand times, and, honestly, I don't want to play "just another WoW-close attempt", I'd rather play a mediocre game in your world. This will also allow you to add neat features/remove features that are too hard / time consuming to implement.

I actually have tried what few maps I could find based on WoW and they always seem to fall short, by a lot. I'm hoping that by doing this I can recapture at least some of the feel and appeal that have come to enjoy in WoW, but with the benefit of no monthly costs and not having to deal with people. I've always loved the game, the quests, exploration, instances and so on, but I never liked the fact that end game content required dealing with many strangers whose objectives are very rarely in parallel with my own. For example, there are sometimes bosses, events, paths and quests that you can skip, and if it can be skipped then it seemed like everyone but me wanted to skip them and get everything done as fast as possible, as if they considered the game a chore instead of something to do for fun. Then of course there's the people that if you don't play exactly to their specifications, will boot you out of groups making the game much less enjoyable.

If I can do this I think it would be amazing, even if I am the only one playing. I would like to make the game so that you can play with up to 5 players and the games difficulty would adjust according to how many are playing at a time. Unfortunately I don't think this is a possibility with the custom campaign which I need to make the world scale better.

These past few days since I started this project have been an amazing learning experience and I can't wait to have everything I want done and to be able to run around in it knowing that I put a lot of time and effort into it. I don't know programming, I've tied to learn in the past but I get confused very easily very fast. Because of this, when I want to make something I end up needing loads of help and an editor like WE to make any progress at all.

 

[aussj5link]

Progress! Check out the sexy walls!

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I agree with sabertooth: Why recreate something that exists and is well known? Thats totally lame. Create something new and unique, instead of just repeating everything that has been done so far.

 

[aussj5link]

I agree with sabertooth: Why recreate something that exists and is well known? Thats totally lame. Create something new and unique, instead of just repeating everything that has been done so far.

I think I explained that pretty well, can't make it any more clear. :/

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I think I explained that pretty well, can't make it any more clear. :/

Well... if you insist, go ahead, but don't expect anyone to get hyped if it's just another WoW map.

You are basicly falling into the same traps that many new mappers fall for:
1) starting a map that has a scope way too big for what a single person can accomplish
2) being very unoriginal
3) starting out with an RPG map, instead of something that is easier to create at first

Making a quality RPG map requires years of dedication and a lot of coding experience, if you want it to be good. There's a reason why people usually create tower defenses, Arenas or AoS maps for their first projects: they are perfect for learning, as the triggers involved in such maps are simple, the terrain needs to be functional (creating functional terrain is a skill that many new mappers miss ... they often end up with terrain that looks good, but suffers from terrible playability) and you learn a lot about balancing aswell, as you will instantly notice if something is overpowered just by playing the map against other players.


Consider this an advice from someone who has been mapping since vanilla WC3 and who has seen hundreds of projects fail because people simply refused to set realistic goals for themselves.

 

[aussj5link]

I don't mind if this takes a very long time. Hell, just this Harbor has taken me a week to get things better looking. As I figure out more stuff about terraining my progress will accelerate. As for the map working, collision-wise, I have been testing it quite frequently to make sure a unit is able to walk only where he is supposed to.

I can see that you tend to avoid anything that doesn't scream originality and I can understand that. My reasons for this project are not based on creating originality but instead allowing playability of something that is hurting in certain departments but shining in others. I have played WoW for many years and I have come to a realization that the actual gameplay is what I enjoy so much. The multiplayer aspect seems more like baggage to me, like something I must get around to get back to the enjoyment of the game. I do believe that WoW is just that good of a game that even recreating it in a different medium like WC3 is worth it, especially if improvements can be made at the same time.

This is not my first attempt at a map. A few years ago I tried to create a mix between "Melee" and "Hero War" where players would choose whether to play as melee (everything is basically the same) or Hero which would involve a hero capable of taking on everything a melee player can throw at them in a balanced fashion. It was going great, I figured out how to make revival systems, random item drops across the map, and many other things. Unfortunately, I don't remember a lot of that stuff and the map was lost when that computer's HDD decided to take a crap. Now that I seem to have nothing but time on my hands and not much way to do what I would like, I figured I'd make a way to do what I like lol.

 

[aussj5link]

So I believe I have finished the Harbor! All that's left is tons of little doodads to make it look a little more like the game. I was screwing around with the sky thing, it looks cool but I hope it doesn't look square like that in-game lol

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Wait, you think that the multiplayer aspect of a "massively multiplayer online rpg" is the worst feature of the game?

 

[aussj5link]

Wait, you think that the multiplayer aspect of a "massively multiplayer online rpg" is the worst feature of the game?

Yes, I think WoW would be much better is multiplayer was an option rather than a requirement. Blizzard has here an amazing game with a great story in an epic world. All of that is lost when you are forced to play with people who would rather spam chats with bullshit, fighting over petty things that have nothing to do with the game. People who would rather skip as much content as possible instead of enjoying the game for what it is. People who get their rocks off on doing nothing more than insulting anyone who doesn't play the game exactly the same way they do but continue to call the game an RPG. So much of the feel and enjoyment of the game is lost when you're doing an escort quest, having a blast protecting your charge, when someone from the opposite faction who is many levels higher than you, comes out of nowhere, kills everyone including the one you're trying to protect and then spams stupid insult emotes as you wait for the escort to respawn again, only to have to drop the quest and repick it up because it says you failed.

Yes, many games are great in multiplayer, WoW, IMO, is not one of them.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Yes, I think WoW would be much better is multiplayer was an option rather than a requirement. Blizzard has here an amazing game with a great story in an epic world. All of that is lost when you are forced to play with people who would rather spam chats with bullshit, fighting over petty things that have nothing to do with the game. People who would rather skip as much content as possible instead of enjoying the game for what it is. People who get their rocks off on doing nothing more than insulting anyone who doesn't play the game exactly the same way they do but continue to call the game an RPG. So much of the feel and enjoyment of the game is lost when you're doing an escort quest, having a blast protecting your charge, when someone from the opposite faction who is many levels higher than you, comes out of nowhere, kills everyone including the one you're trying to protect and then spams stupid insult emotes as you wait for the escort to respawn again, only to have to drop the quest and repick it up because it says you failed.

Yes, many games are great in multiplayer, WoW, IMO, is not one of them.

You are clearly playing with the wrong people then. WoW is great for it's group content, not despite of it. Check out all the "singleplayer online rpgs" like ESO and see for yourself why they failed so hard.

 

[aussj5link]

If you're talking about the Elder Scrolls series then I have to say, you are very wrong when it comes to saying how bad they failed. The Elder Scrolls series is amazing. Elder Scrolls Online, from what I can tell, is not a singleplayer online game. It appears to be a cookie cutter mmorpg, unfortunately. This is not what I mean when I talk about a singleplayer/small group multiplayer WoW.

 

[Kazeon]

Try to make something smaller first (AoS map for example). See if you can finish it. Otherwise you have small chance to finish this, pretty close to impossible actually. Creating an average RPG game requires a lot of efforts. And to successfully develop a WoW-level RPG, it requires more than just total effort, it requires a team, an above-good team, and years. Just look at Gaias Retaliation, it's a small RPG (compared to WoW) yet it took more than 3 years to be finished already.

That may sounds rude and discouraging, but it's better to piss you up to save you from wasting times. But eventually, it's up to you, if you just want to get experiences, then go on. If not, I suggest you to hold back or at least, as I have said before, try to experiment with something smaller.

Good luck.

 

[Heinvers]

Always try baby steps first before leaping into a huge 'shit'.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

If you're talking about the Elder Scrolls series then I have to say, you are very wrong when it comes to saying how bad they failed. The Elder Scrolls series is amazing. Elder Scrolls Online, from what I can tell, is not a singleplayer online game. It appears to be a cookie cutter mmorpg, unfortunately. This is not what I mean when I talk about a singleplayer/small group multiplayer WoW.

I was only talking about Elder Scrolls Online. Which is more like a singleplayer game with a sub-par multiplayer due to the horrible phasing mechanics.

 

[aussj5link]

Try to make something smaller first (AoS map for example). See if you can finish it. Otherwise you have small chance to finish this, pretty close to impossible actually. Creating an average RPG game requires a lot of efforts. And to successfully develop a WoW-level RPG, it requires more than just total effort, it requires a team, an above-good team, and years. Just look at Gaias Retaliation, it's a small RPG (compared to WoW) yet it took more than 3 years to be finished already.

That may sounds rude and discouraging, but it's better to piss you up to save you from wasting times. But eventually, it's up to you, if you just want to get experiences, then go on. If not, I suggest you to hold back or at least, as I have said before, try to experiment with something smaller.

Good luck.

That may be a good idea. I just figure if nothing, at least building the map has been fun so far. Sucks that I'm having trouble make it look quite as good as I had hoped but even still, it looks better the more I work on it IMO. I honestly think what's going to happen is that I'm going to finish the terrain, or at least get to a suitable point, and then my progress will halt due to not knowing how to work all the triggers and what not I will need.

You are probably right, I think I will hold this project to the side a little bit and work on something I might be able to finish better. I might take up my old idea with the Melee vs Hero War thing and see if I can get that to work. I will however, continue to work on this map on the side and will still post updates.

 

[Zunariel]

If you need a good blue post for triggering open world in wc3 I can recommend my campaign (;D) it is not protected and you can check all the triggers if you like.

 

[aussj5link]

Doooooodads! What do you guys think?

 

[Heinvers]

Honestly I dislike Blizzard Cliffs (better try to make the whole terrain submerged in deep water first and use the raise tool for land, just personal preference).

I really like the Warcraft-ish look you made. Keep going

 

[ldragogode297]

When I terrain maps I make it all start with shallow water.

 

[aussj5link]

Thanks! Yeah, I realized after I was pretty far in that I should have started the map under water and simply raised the land up without the cliff tool and I just decided to go with it. Now I'm wondering if I should start with a new map anyway and this time do it under water, it's just starting over that is putting me off from it lol

 

[Sabertooth]

These past few days since I started this project have been an amazing learning experience and I can't wait to have everything I want done and to be able to run around in it knowing that I put a lot of time and effort into it. I don't know programming, I've tied to learn in the past but I get confused very easily very fast. Because of this, when I want to make something I end up needing loads of help and an editor like WE to make any progress at all.

I think you understood me wrong. I wasn't suggesting that you NOT make a Warcraft 3 Map, simply that you make a world of your own. You listed the parts of WoW that you enjoy, which makes sense, but why not implement similar systems in a world of your own? You don't have to mimic WoW exactly to (realistically) make an enjoyable experience.