• 🏆 Texturing Contest #33 is OPEN! Contestants must re-texture a SD unit model found in-game (Warcraft 3 Classic), recreating the unit into a peaceful NPC version. 🔗Click here to enter!
  • It's time for the first HD Modeling Contest of 2024. Join the theme discussion for Hive's HD Modeling Contest #6! Click here to post your idea!

High Elves techtree without magic?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Level 16
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
522
Hello,

I am currently thinking about making a Quel'Danil's faction for my project.
However, I read on wiki they abandoned magic after the destruction of Sunwell. And in fact, in wow, only ranger's appeared.

Soooo
Any ideas to make a full techtree without spellcasters?
Or maybe alternatives...
 

Kyrbi0

Arena Moderator
Level 45
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
9,495
Orrrrrrrr... Speaking of nature magic, it would be cool to see a "Warcraft alpha" version of High Elves that focused on those giant Runestones (i.e. @ Caer Darrow), and those magic barrier-gates from the campaign. Rangers, Druids, stuff like that...
 
Level 28
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
3,105
You could develop an entire techtree based on them.

Really big runestones that serve as town halls and lift up and fly when the mine is drained.
Stone circles that serve as way gates.
Runestones with a permanent Big Bad Voodoo effect but are neutral and have disturbingly high HP, randomly summon wild animals, duplicate items, increase or decrease experience...
 
Level 16
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
522
Oh, so High Elves have faith in Holy Light and nature.
I guess something can be done with this.

However, what are their abilities about nature? I am not an expert with that at all lol

What about heroes? I only need one who is melee (idk if he is agi or sgt though).

Thank you for your answers!
 
Level 28
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
3,105
Nature abilities: If they don't have arcane magic, maybe something Celtic-inspired, involving mastery of woods, mist and water.

Here's a melee hero:

High Elf Wardancer

Melee Agility

Deathleap (Active): Targets a unit. Jumps towards the unit, attacks once for increased damage and jumps back.

Ghost Strike (Active): Reduces damage by 99% and applies the Ghost Strike debuff to the next five attacks made by the Wardancer (can stack on the same target). When the buff fades, the target takes 100/200/300 damage.

You're Next (Passive): After the Wardancer kills an enemy, nearby enemies have reduced movement and attackspeed (effect stacks).

Ultimate: Dancing Blade (Active, drains mana): Gains extra movespeed and has 90% chance to reflect Piercing damage while the effect is active.
 

Kyrbi0

Arena Moderator
Level 45
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
9,495
Just my $0.02, but "Deathleap" & "Ghost Strike", not only on this hero but the same hero, is a bit much IMO. Especially when we're not going for a necromancy-magic angle.

What about just "Leap"? Or "Pounce". Maybe "Vengestrike" (bleh) or "Leaping Blow" or "Bounding Strike" or "Soaring Strike" or summat...

"Ghost Strike" actually sounds kinda interesting now that I'm reading the ability. Not sure what it could be renamed as, but... "Feint" could get across a similar idea, or perhaps something fancy like "Riposte". Perhaps "Flurry Strike" or "Flurry of Blows"... Hm.

"Dancing Blade" sounds cool but I feel like it would need a few more things to really be 'Ultimate', like perhaps:
- Increasing Attack Speed
- (partially?) blocking/reflecting melee damage,
- dealing damage in an area around him (kinda identical to Bladestorm then though)
- giving Spell Immunity/Resistance (see above: Bladestorm)
- temporarily allowing him a short-range 'Blink' (like he's jumping all over the battlefield, Omnislash-style)
- etc.

Otherwise I'm a big fan.
 
Level 28
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
3,105
"Ghost" as in "they don't realize they've been hit", only taking damage after the attack. Seeing as these are non-casters, going for the "better than you at everything" variant of elves via superior reflexes and so-fast-you-don't-feel-it attacks.

Deathleap... Eh, substitute any predatory animal.
 
Level 16
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
522
My problem is not about balancing or something like that, but more based on Lore @Kyrbi0

Here a first shot of early units.
Screenshot_2.png

Since the project is not based on that point, but this point is only a minime part, I am not really into making a full original techtree like in Ultimate Battle for example.

Your abilities are really interesing, however, the model used is more like... A King using a sword like, one time by year lol.
It fit more to a Paladin or something.

Are Dragonhawks used at Quel Danil? Or they use Griphon, since they are just near?
 
Level 28
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
3,105
Elf-king

Melee Strength

Bodyguards (Active): Summons the king's elite bodyguard to his side (permanent but limited summon).

Sword of Light (Active): Targets an area, flooding it with the presence of the Holy Light. Heals allied units in the AoE and blinds enemies.

Royal Armor (Passive): Attacks have a chance to miss or be bounced back to the attacker.

Ultimate: King's Command (Channeling): While active, all allied units in an AoE around the king have increased armor, damage and HP regen.
 
Level 5
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
124
Okay, Tuwnew, just how much of a techtree do you want? Do you want the full 12 unit, 10 structure arrangement, made as distinct as the concept allows? A full techtree stapled together from humans and night elves, with a handful of true alterations? A partial techtree like the Naga, filling out most of the roles with decently special units, but not quite being feature-complete and a bit overly self-similar? Or do you want a highly paired-down race that fills out needed mechanical roles while being very "crowded" in what units do?

In any case, I can think of a decent number of things to look into, in terms of specific assets to ask around for. For instance, the "no magic" rule normally would utterly ruin any High Elf race attempt, but the fact you're basing it on existing WoW-era lore brings up the very useful existence of the Wretched, who need to use magic or else they will go insane and die. While this is a result of extensive overuse of Arcane magic, that gives a perfect Hero concept and a heavy caster analogous to the Spellbreaker's role. And possibly have most of the race have inactive mana pools. For a second caster, you could use Alchemy as a Not!Magic, possibly using Scroll of Regeneration as the basis for the healing spell to make it a matter of recovering after battle, instead of keeping units alive during combat like the other healers.
 
Level 28
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
3,105
Is it possible to have spells that work with charges, as in the spell accumulates charges and they can be used in quick succession with no cooldown, but once they're up it takes a while to regenerate a single charge one after another. Basically the way items and mercenaries are bought, and reducing the reliance on mana.

So they fire off a barrage of spells at the beginning of battle, but after that they're down to standard attacking or retreating.
 
Level 10
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
180
How about feral elves.

They've lost magic and they've lost their "civilisation"

They're aggressive, they paint their faces, they attack with arrows, blades, traps, poison and clubs.

They use lots of animals.

They use herbal remedies to heal, they use hallucinogenic mushrooms to enter a frenzied state. Their language has devolved and they live in gnoll like huts deep in the woods.



Or maybe they've gone back to some old ways, worshipping some "spirit of the forest" which is actually a demon (or old gods) and they gain their powers from that patron. Sort of like a warlock or divine magic (where the patron isn't necessarily divine just very powerful)
 
Level 28
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
3,105
^ That's a good one.

Warrior: Basic melee unit.

Totem warrior: Warriors can use the Totem ability once to determine their totem animal (transforms them into a random totem warrior, no takebacks):
* Bear: Cleaving Attack and Berserk
* Wolf: Faerie Fire and does increased damage when near other Wolf Totem warriors (stacks)
* Hawk: Increased sight range and True Sight
* Stag: Increased speed and attack speed
* Boar: Bash and Hardened Skin
* Snake: Resistant Skin and Slow Poison
* Rat: Evasion and Disease Cloud
* Panther: Critical Strike and Roar
* Owl: Invisible at night, even when moving.

Recaller: An elder that can still recall the time of the elves' civilization, and gets two randomly-chosen spells when trained.
 
Level 16
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
522
Okay, Tuwnew, just how much of a techtree do you want? Do you want the full 12 unit, 10 structure arrangement, made as distinct as the concept allows? A full techtree stapled together from humans and night elves, with a handful of true alterations? A partial techtree like the Naga, filling out most of the roles with decently special units, but not quite being feature-complete and a bit overly self-similar? Or do you want a highly paired-down race that fills out needed mechanical roles while being very "crowded" in what units do?
The faction is made for like one (or maybe two) missions of a campaign and is based on human techtree. Basic Units/Buildings will be kind similar.
However, spells and "unique" units (Knight, siege engine, motar... for example) must be new.


For Priest, I think about some "runes" like suggered before which work like totem. For healing, I though about salve healing (orc potion from shop).

Your spellbreaker hero is a really nice idea and I will certainly base my hero on that.


I say again, but the faction must be based on lore firstly. In Wow, we don't see any casters, but since we are 4 years later... Here (TFT era) we can imagine they are still there and could follow Kael or become wretched or something else.

I can maybe use Dragonhawk + wolves as mounted unit.
 

Kyrbi0

Arena Moderator
Level 45
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
9,495
How about feral elves.

They've lost magic and they've lost their "civilisation"

They're aggressive, they paint their faces, they attack with arrows, blades, traps, poison and clubs.

They use lots of animals.

They use herbal remedies to heal, they use hallucinogenic mushrooms to enter a frenzied state. Their language has devolved and they live in gnoll like huts deep in the woods.



Or maybe they've gone back to some old ways, worshipping some "spirit of the forest" which is actually a demon (or old gods) and they gain their powers from that patron. Sort of like a warlock or divine magic (where the patron isn't necessarily divine just very powerful)
Literally basically Trolls. : D

That's a part of why I love them so much in Warcraft.
 
Level 5
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
124
I say again, but the faction must be based on lore firstly. In Wow, we don't see any casters, but since we are 4 years later... Here (TFT era) we can imagine they are still there and could follow Kael or become wretched or something else.
Okay, so, the Quel'Danil lodge has some notable features, and one of the big ones is that they refused to use Arcane magic in any way, but we know they used Light-based magic rather extensively due to Dranei showing up for that reason (well, it's more a matter of being a safe, quiet place with some decently-powerful allies to back them up so they can meditate without being buggered, but that still strongly supports a Light magic society).

In The Frozen Throne's time, they could be in the middle of abandoning Arcane magic due to the timeframe in question. However, the lack of access to the Sunwell, and presumably the same refusal to use mana drain as the ill-fated Quel'Lithien, could result in their abandonment of Arcane magic being primarily an issue of supply, so it could have been rather gradual. The disbelief in the Sunwell's destruction could lead them to holding to Arcane magic as long as possible before they ran out of stockpiles (given how far they are from Quel'thalas, they likely didn't draw directly from the Sunwell and instead relied on shipments of mana-rich items).

Given what the Wretched are, the hording behavior seen in famines may cause some of them to arise, especially among the higher-grade spellcasters used to having immense amounts of mana on-call. As mentioned, an elven archmage Wretched could work as a Hero built around mana manipulation. A Spellbreaker Hero would, for one, need a new model, and two, it'd be separate from the Wretched option, as Spellbreakers proper are both extremely high-status guards (the reason we get them in the TFT campaign is specifically because Kael is the Crown Prince, as in he should already be the actual king) and well familiar with micromanaging mana manipulation to not horrible screw themselves over.

As mentioned, the whole race could have mana pools, down to the workers, then many of them could become Wretched. Possibly including the workers, but not all the Elves. Helpfully, Gryphon Riders and Mortar Teams can be used, as Quel'danil is in the Hinterlands, more or less adjacent to large concentrations of Dwarves. This means that the only unit needing complete replacement would be the Knight.
 
Level 27
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
752
Well, it depends of what mechanics do you want.

Light magic is a no brainer, it covers buff, debuff, healing, and damage. It's possible to divide the techtree between two or three units and go from it.

Alchemy is another option, healing or offensive uses. You can justify an elven mortar unit with alchemical rockets.

Runestones. While runes as a building is easy to implement, auras and actives. For units i find this dificult, for example, instead of using magic like other units, runes must be charged like items. So casting runes should cost less mana, but you only can use 4 charges before waiting for the cooldown to restock your 4 shots.
 
Level 16
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
522
Hello guys,

I started making abilities.

PRIEST (Or new name)
Alchemy
Targeted unit has an increased HP regeneration but must not be attacked during the process.

Rune of Slowing
Create a rune which reduce speed of all enemy units around.

???

SORCERESS (Name to edit I guess)
???

Shield Rune
Targeted unit's armor increased.

Rune of Healing
Create a rune which regenerate HP of all allied units. (Witch Doctor, basically)

SPELLBREAKER
Same spell + Antimagic shield (a weak one)

Swordsman, Ranger, Ballista, Dragonhawk Rider → No modifications (abilities)


For Tier 3 melee unit (Like Knight), I can use :
A Wolf rider
A Dragonhawk Rider (Foot ?)
An Elite Footman (Look like Spellbreaker though)

Any suggestions?
 
Level 34
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
2,739
Why not use a farstrider guerrilla army, it fits the lore, and would be enough for just a few missions, Ranger generals, archers, farstriders on foot, riders and ballistas, maybe some kind of lesser druidism, if i recall the ranger corps spent so much time in the forest, away from the sunwell, that they started taping on to forest magic (druidism), including using entangling roots and summoning treants, maybe you could based on the night elves instead of the regular humans?
 
Level 16
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
522
It was my initial plan, but I changed to the opposite and focus on caster.
Why?

Because of Lore.

Quel'Danil Lodge is led by Saldor in the old canon.
Jalinde Summerdrake is the only named unit on Wow.

So, in my mission, the "casters" led by Saldor follow the hero and the "Farstriders" with Jalinde stay at home.
 
Level 5
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
124
Okay, to explain what's actually the goal here, it's an adjusted Human or Night Elf (or mix of altered units from both) techtree, or part of one, to represent a group of High Elves that abandoned Arcane magic in particular. The Light, and Nature magic, are both at least technically usable. This means that the Priest is fine as-is, maybe swap Dispel Magic for a direct debuff based on Holy Magic. The Spellbreakers are also not Blood Elves inherently. They are a group that existed as High Elves, and continued acting in the same role when the Blood Elf shift happened.

This is more a practice of removing a, if not the, core theme of a group, then seeing what can be done without that core. You have to take the things on the side and turn them into the core. And given the lore access, this is relatively easily doable, once you figure out what side elements you're going to use.
 

Kyrbi0

Arena Moderator
Level 45
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
9,495
High Elves are pretty much extinct. Those few that remain are arcanists, you cannot take 1% out of 1% and make a techtree out of it :-/

Or well, you can. But not while being canon.

You might find 1-2 worgen who are pro-forsaken, it wont make a horde aligned worgen techtree canon
#1: Canon schmanon.

More importantly, #2: It's very easy to do a canon thing like that; all you have to do is be in the right time-frame. My Dalaran race I'm designing doesn't make a lick of sense with Dalaran destroyed by Archimonde... So I'm setting it in the past, when they were at their height, RoC-times. Easy peezy.

So pick a time when the High Elves aren't the 1%, and you're already halfway there.
 
Level 34
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
2,739
#1: Canon schmanon.

More importantly, #2: It's very easy to do a canon thing like that; all you have to do is be in the right time-frame. My Dalaran race I'm designing doesn't make a lick of sense with Dalaran destroyed by Archimonde... So I'm setting it in the past, when they were at their height, RoC-times. Easy peezy.

So pick a time when the High Elves aren't the 1%, and you're already halfway there.
It's setting in the "present", have you even read the early posts? D:
 
Level 34
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
2,739
Are you kidding? I'm Kyrbi0. I write; I don't read.

;D

No but seriously, I went back & readre all of Tuwnew's posts to see... And he doesn't mention anything about time until the second page. :< And it's a bit confusing, honestly.
lol , well, to be honest, i'm a bit confused too X'D

btw, so, a Dalaran faction uh, my concept art services are still open ;3
 
Level 5
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
124
High Elves are pretty much extinct. Those few that remain are arcanists, you cannot take 1% out of 1% and make a techtree out of it :-/
While Quel'Danil... actually didn't abandon magic in canon, apparently (they also maintained an independent supply of Dragonhawks), which makes the lore underpinning of this a bit bunk, Quel'Lithien did abandon magic. So they actually do exist, as stable settlements (well, Quel'Lithian wound up turned into Wretched by some random cursed artifact messing with their heads during Cata, but the highly similar Quel'Danil is a stable settlement with it's own death, and more importantly birth, records). Just not the specified group, weirdly enough.

Seriously, at least pay attention to the Opening Post and actually do some research. Your objections have been noted and debunked. Now, I'll go on about what needs to be replaced (my ultimate idea is that as many unit dynamics be preserved as possible, but done by different means to get a different feel for very similar results):

Archmage, Paladin and Blood Mage require replacement, as the first and last for being entirely magic-based and the Paladin for being something that the High Elves never had. Mere reskin doesn't work, as the High Elves never developed a warrior-priest order like the Humans wound up doing. Because of this, they don't have Paladins. The Blood Knights of the Blood Elves are a divergence based on ripping magic from a Naaru, rather than an adjustment to Priest training to get warrior-priests to deal with Undead in short order. Mountain King gets a pass for the Wildhammer alliance.

I recommend a Hunter-leaning Ranger (summons Bear, for example) in replacement of Archmage, filling in similar roles from different directions. Then the Blood Mage can be a Wretched, using spontaneous mana drains like Devour (possibly in combination with a mass debuff to supply things to Devour) and a Metamorphosis that causes them to lose health while it's active, getting a similar abnormal benefit from Priest support the Pheonix has. Then the Paladin is, obviously, replaced with a beefed up Priest that goes all in on support.

Sorceresses and Spellbreakers are entirely Arcane spellcasters, and thus need replacement. The Sorceress can be replaced with a nature-magic attacker, using poison and a summon for offense and having a flying or sometimes-invisible transformation that amplifies the CC usefulness. Spellbreakers can continue their anti-caster use, but need a different angle for it that stealing the spells (surprises me that they predate the Sunwell's destruction). A sort of proto-Paladin, tackling it from the angle of a more inquisitorial style than the warrior-priest style Lordaeron went with, could work out. Holy magic used in a heavily anti-Arcane way, rather than anti-Undead like the original Paladins, keeping the anti-caster role of the original Spellbreaker. A Wildhammer Shaman would also be usable in replacement of one of them.

The Workshop in general needs replacement because, honestly, none of it fits the Wildhammer Dwarves. Riflemen are at least debatable, but heavy siege equipment? That's going to be High Elf stuff. So the Siege Tank gets replaced with some kind of siege beast, possibly a bear, the Mortar Team gets replaced by a ballista and the Flying Machine... Not sure, actually. Both the flying options are already taken by persistence of the Gryphon Aviary as a perfect fit, so I'm not sure what could replace the Flying Machine. Maybe unmounted Gryphons, in which case the rider might replace the Footman or Rifleman as the respective basic unit, using the Hypogryph Archer's mount mechanic. Then the Gryphon Aviary would need to be replaced by something completely different... Maybe a general beast upgrade center, shifting Animal War Training and a few other animal training abilities? Could roll into the beast-building that replaces the workshop...

Dragonhawk Riders: Not quite replacement, as the issue lies solely on the fact that Aerial Shackles and Cloud are Arcane magic. Swap to similar effects with a different fluff and you can use the exact same model, possibly even keep the name.

Knights: While they could be reskinned, there's enough short and melee ranged stuff already, and for Farstrider-based Elves, the mobility is begging for a ranged unit, if only as an upgrade option. The pattern of a t3 melee unit can be preserved by an upgraded beast from the workshop replacement.

---

The Footman and Peasant can be reskinned, and the Rifleman can be replaced by an archer, but in the event of desperately wanting to actually change them for something else, the Peasant-equivalent could have a basic spell in replacement of the Call to Arms effect, offering something for buff interactions to apply to. Similarly, the Footman swap could have a bit of a shift to the Defend ability, adjusting the numbers so that it's more blanket defensive than specifically anti-archer. An Archer unit would do well to use a poison, instead of a range increase, as an upgrade. Similar damage results, in a decent number of situations, but it also bumps up damage slightly during combat.
 

Kyrbi0

Arena Moderator
Level 45
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
9,495
@Banelingline If you're biggest concern is maintaining as much of the standard faction as possible & simply replacing the overtly "arcane" elements, well... I submit it's even easier than you know.

Basically it's all just window dressing. The Theme/Form (superficial aesthetics; as opposed to the Role/Function (underlying mechanics)) is easily changed via tooltip, icon, etc.

For example, the Sorceress' Invisibility could simply be Nature-empowered; perhaps called "Leafmantle" or "Druidskin" or "Nature's Cloak" or "Arbor Eyes" or whatever. Bam: same spell, no longer arcane. Etc.
 
Last edited:

Chaosy

Tutorial Reviewer
Level 40
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
13,183
#1: Canon schmanon.

More importantly, #2: It's very easy to do a canon thing like that; all you have to do is be in the right time-frame. My Dalaran race I'm designing doesn't make a lick of sense with Dalaran destroyed by Archimonde... So I'm setting it in the past, when they were at their height, RoC-times. Easy peezy.

So pick a time when the High Elves aren't the 1%, and you're already halfway there.

Except when High Elves were common they were quite literary worshiping magic, so it is still extreme minority

Seriously, at least pay attention to the Opening Post and actually do some research. Your objections have been noted and debunked.

Except your example is still the minority of the minority.

1. At that point in time, they are pretty much extinct. And that one example they became wretched because of that choice. "The lodge's fate is ironic, as the elves who dwelled there were the most fierce opponents of mana draining and abstained from it entirely–they ended up becoming Wretched, which only occurs after draining far too much arcane magic." I do not think that is a good example to prove that anti-magic elves exist when they inevitably transform within a few years.

2. Even if you take that out of the calculation, we are speaking about 100 people that are living at the lodge? You are then going to fight the a horde of orcs that number thousands? same for humans or night elves, good lucking taking over Ashenvale (melee map) with 100 soliders, provided all of the people at the outpost are battle trained.
 
Last edited:
Level 16
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
522
Well, if you need more explanations about context, just read this:

Everything starts with my campaign project : Alliance Ashes which takes place during TFT.
This campaign allows us to have a vision of what happens on human side.
At some point, our heroes reach Quel'Danil.
Highvale Elves did not followed Kael'Thas and abandoned their old magic.

They will be playable for like two missions and I need to make a simple techtree for them without using Arcane Magic.
They are led by Saldor Shallowbrook (I don't really know his class, so I decided to make him a Melee caster)
The dwarves and Farstriders will not follow the hero, only Saldor and his cast.

@Chaosy ; There are 800~ people at Quel'Danil in Lands of Conflits. I don't know exactly when.
Before WOW Vanilla ?
Even though, WarCraft is not well-made itself for those calculs.
There are wars for like 50 years and each faction looks infinite, so... I can still make an exception with that =)

@Kyrbi0 is right. We can easily use standard spell with only changes made to icon or effect. But I still want to make things differents.

However, I will not create a full techtree with all the 12 standard units and innovation everywhere.
For example, Dwarves will not be implemanted, Wretched neither.

To conclude, the things I need for now is to determine abilities for Sorceress and Spellbreaker and find.
For the "Knight", I think I can use a Dragonhawk Rider on foot (just like in the fabulous tomoraider campaign) but can't find it on hive though. And even though, I must reskin it with blue.


I thank you all for your answers ^^
 
Level 28
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
3,105
Spellbreaker:
Instead of simply removing magic, a spell that damages/heals enemies/allies when removing buffs.
Feedback that removes mana without doing extra damage.
And maybe give them the Magic Defend ability instead of immunity.

Sorceress:
Entangle: Temporarily slows all enemies in the AoE.
Windcloak (autocast): Gives the target Evasion while the buff is active.
Call Beast: Summons a random forest animal (1 at a time, resets when recast).
 
Level 5
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
124
@Banelingline If you're biggest concern is maintaining as much of the standard faction as possible & simply replacing the overtly "arcane" elements, well... I submit it's even easier than you know.

Basically it's all just window dressing. The Theme/Form (superficial aesthetics; as opposed to the Role/Function (underlying mechanics)) is easily changed via tooltip, icon, etc.

For example, the Sorceress' Invisibility could simply be Nature-empowered; perhaps called "Leafmantle" or "Druidskin" or "Nature's Cloak" or "Arbor Eyes" or whatever. Ban: same spell, no longer arcane. Etc.
It's more "minimal changes necessary", while preserving as many dynamics as possible. Fill the same roles with different mechanics that lead to a very different feel, but similar outcomes. Make it feel like a new race, but have very nearly identical performance to humans.

And that one example they became wretched because of that choice.
Actually, if you'd pay some proper goddamn attention, you'd notice mention of a sinister artifact that fucked them over. They became Wretched specifically because they turned away from that choice, going in the complete opposite direction, due to digging up a corruptive artifact. So the anti-magic stance works, as far as we know.

Even if you take that out of the calculation, we are speaking about 100 people that are living at the lodge? You are then going to fight the a horde of orcs that number thousands?
The typical "army" in Warcraft 3 is 20 or so units. The literal maximum, assuming all 1 food cost units, is 100. And Quel'Danil has extensive ties to Wildhammer Dwarves. They beat away a local Troll tribe, as well. They're not helpless, they have noteworthy military capabilities. Sure, a proper army would utterly destroy them, but they'd very much be working to avoid that in the first place, leaning on the Alliance to protect the borders of the area and the Wildhammer Dwarves as military backup to round out the numbers against any force that actually gets to them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top