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High Elves techtree without magic?

Discussion in 'Idea Factory' started by Tuwnew, May 21, 2018.

  1. Tuwnew

    Tuwnew

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    Hello,

    I am currently thinking about making a Quel'Danil's faction for my project.
    However, I read on wiki they abandoned magic after the destruction of Sunwell. And in fact, in wow, only ranger's appeared.

    Soooo
    Any ideas to make a full techtree without spellcasters?
    Or maybe alternatives...
     
  2. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Argh, High Ember without magic?? Catastrophe.
    :D
     
  3. stein123

    stein123

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    Well, they abandoned Arcane magic, you can still use holy magic and nature magic for them :d
     
  4. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Orrrrrrrr... Speaking of nature magic, it would be cool to see a "Warcraft alpha" version of High Elves that focused on those giant Runestones (i.e. @ Caer Darrow), and those magic barrier-gates from the campaign. Rangers, Druids, stuff like that...
     
  5. cleavinghammer

    cleavinghammer

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    Archer that uses Cold or Searing Arrows.

    Runestone that renders the targeted town hall invulnerable.

    Druid that creates walls of trees.
     
  6. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    I just wanna see Runestones. Massive magical rune-stones that have cool effects & such.

    The Monolith model is basically perfect.
     
  7. cleavinghammer

    cleavinghammer

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    You could develop an entire techtree based on them.

    Really big runestones that serve as town halls and lift up and fly when the mine is drained.
    Stone circles that serve as way gates.
    Runestones with a permanent Big Bad Voodoo effect but are neutral and have disturbingly high HP, randomly summon wild animals, duplicate items, increase or decrease experience...
     
  8. Oliver

    Oliver

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    How about mundane stuff like greek fire/alchemy
     
  9. Tuwnew

    Tuwnew

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    Oh, so High Elves have faith in Holy Light and nature.
    I guess something can be done with this.

    However, what are their abilities about nature? I am not an expert with that at all lol

    What about heroes? I only need one who is melee (idk if he is agi or sgt though).

    Thank you for your answers!
     
  10. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Look at the other four races, and build off of them. Try to find the patterns & similarities/differences between them, and find ways to creatively fill the same slots.

    Check out this great old guide for some good starting pointers.
     
  11. cleavinghammer

    cleavinghammer

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    Nature abilities: If they don't have arcane magic, maybe something Celtic-inspired, involving mastery of woods, mist and water.

    Here's a melee hero:

    High Elf Wardancer

    Melee Agility

    Deathleap (Active): Targets a unit. Jumps towards the unit, attacks once for increased damage and jumps back.

    Ghost Strike (Active): Reduces damage by 99% and applies the Ghost Strike debuff to the next five attacks made by the Wardancer (can stack on the same target). When the buff fades, the target takes 100/200/300 damage.

    You're Next (Passive): After the Wardancer kills an enemy, nearby enemies have reduced movement and attackspeed (effect stacks).

    Ultimate: Dancing Blade (Active, drains mana): Gains extra movespeed and has 90% chance to reflect Piercing damage while the effect is active.
     
  12. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Just my $0.02, but "Deathleap" & "Ghost Strike", not only on this hero but the same hero, is a bit much IMO. Especially when we're not going for a necromancy-magic angle.

    What about just "Leap"? Or "Pounce". Maybe "Vengestrike" (bleh) or "Leaping Blow" or "Bounding Strike" or "Soaring Strike" or summat...

    "Ghost Strike" actually sounds kinda interesting now that I'm reading the ability. Not sure what it could be renamed as, but... "Feint" could get across a similar idea, or perhaps something fancy like "Riposte". Perhaps "Flurry Strike" or "Flurry of Blows"... Hm.

    "Dancing Blade" sounds cool but I feel like it would need a few more things to really be 'Ultimate', like perhaps:
    - Increasing Attack Speed
    - (partially?) blocking/reflecting melee damage,
    - dealing damage in an area around him (kinda identical to Bladestorm then though)
    - giving Spell Immunity/Resistance (see above: Bladestorm)
    - temporarily allowing him a short-range 'Blink' (like he's jumping all over the battlefield, Omnislash-style)
    - etc.

    Otherwise I'm a big fan.
     
  13. cleavinghammer

    cleavinghammer

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    "Ghost" as in "they don't realize they've been hit", only taking damage after the attack. Seeing as these are non-casters, going for the "better than you at everything" variant of elves via superior reflexes and so-fast-you-don't-feel-it attacks.

    Deathleap... Eh, substitute any predatory animal.
     
  14. Tuwnew

    Tuwnew

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    My problem is not about balancing or something like that, but more based on Lore @Kyrbi0

    Here a first shot of early units.
    Screenshot_2.png

    Since the project is not based on that point, but this point is only a minime part, I am not really into making a full original techtree like in Ultimate Battle for example.

    Your abilities are really interesing, however, the model used is more like... A King using a sword like, one time by year lol.
    It fit more to a Paladin or something.

    Are Dragonhawks used at Quel Danil? Or they use Griphon, since they are just near?
     
  15. cleavinghammer

    cleavinghammer

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    Elf-king

    Melee Strength

    Bodyguards (Active): Summons the king's elite bodyguard to his side (permanent but limited summon).

    Sword of Light (Active): Targets an area, flooding it with the presence of the Holy Light. Heals allied units in the AoE and blinds enemies.

    Royal Armor (Passive): Attacks have a chance to miss or be bounced back to the attacker.

    Ultimate: King's Command (Channeling): While active, all allied units in an AoE around the king have increased armor, damage and HP regen.
     
  16. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    @Tuwnew Please never take a screenshot at night. >_<
     
  17. Banelingline

    Banelingline

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    Okay, Tuwnew, just how much of a techtree do you want? Do you want the full 12 unit, 10 structure arrangement, made as distinct as the concept allows? A full techtree stapled together from humans and night elves, with a handful of true alterations? A partial techtree like the Naga, filling out most of the roles with decently special units, but not quite being feature-complete and a bit overly self-similar? Or do you want a highly paired-down race that fills out needed mechanical roles while being very "crowded" in what units do?

    In any case, I can think of a decent number of things to look into, in terms of specific assets to ask around for. For instance, the "no magic" rule normally would utterly ruin any High Elf race attempt, but the fact you're basing it on existing WoW-era lore brings up the very useful existence of the Wretched, who need to use magic or else they will go insane and die. While this is a result of extensive overuse of Arcane magic, that gives a perfect Hero concept and a heavy caster analogous to the Spellbreaker's role. And possibly have most of the race have inactive mana pools. For a second caster, you could use Alchemy as a Not!Magic, possibly using Scroll of Regeneration as the basis for the healing spell to make it a matter of recovering after battle, instead of keeping units alive during combat like the other healers.
     
  18. cleavinghammer

    cleavinghammer

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    Is it possible to have spells that work with charges, as in the spell accumulates charges and they can be used in quick succession with no cooldown, but once they're up it takes a while to regenerate a single charge one after another. Basically the way items and mercenaries are bought, and reducing the reliance on mana.

    So they fire off a barrage of spells at the beginning of battle, but after that they're down to standard attacking or retreating.
     
  19. Oliver

    Oliver

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    How about feral elves.

    They've lost magic and they've lost their "civilisation"

    They're aggressive, they paint their faces, they attack with arrows, blades, traps, poison and clubs.

    They use lots of animals.

    They use herbal remedies to heal, they use hallucinogenic mushrooms to enter a frenzied state. Their language has devolved and they live in gnoll like huts deep in the woods.



    Or maybe they've gone back to some old ways, worshipping some "spirit of the forest" which is actually a demon (or old gods) and they gain their powers from that patron. Sort of like a warlock or divine magic (where the patron isn't necessarily divine just very powerful)
     
  20. cleavinghammer

    cleavinghammer

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    ^ That's a good one.

    Warrior: Basic melee unit.

    Totem warrior: Warriors can use the Totem ability once to determine their totem animal (transforms them into a random totem warrior, no takebacks):
    * Bear: Cleaving Attack and Berserk
    * Wolf: Faerie Fire and does increased damage when near other Wolf Totem warriors (stacks)
    * Hawk: Increased sight range and True Sight
    * Stag: Increased speed and attack speed
    * Boar: Bash and Hardened Skin
    * Snake: Resistant Skin and Slow Poison
    * Rat: Evasion and Disease Cloud
    * Panther: Critical Strike and Roar
    * Owl: Invisible at night, even when moving.

    Recaller: An elder that can still recall the time of the elves' civilization, and gets two randomly-chosen spells when trained.