"MacGyver" (Hero Retrofit) Contest - IDEA

[Kyrbi0]

"Macgyver" Contest!

So hey! A while back I said some stuff (search for "good question") and then later even did some stuff that gave me a great idea for a little 'quickie' Contest!

See, I'm itching for another Hero Contest, but with university going hard right now I just don't know if I have the time. Plus we have a bunch of other big, long Contests going on right now...

So HERE'S THE IDEA: A "Hero Retrofit Contest"! It could take one of two forms:

Version 1 (eh, not cool enough)

Version 1

Theme is what gives the different Roles 'character', or a 'story'; they allow lore & background needs to present a compelling "Character" to become involved with, rather than just a "thing" or "entity" to manipulate (i.e. like Chess (though honestly, even Chess has this element if you look hard enough; bishops, knights, rooks, pawns, kings, queens; could just as easily have been "unit G2 can jump over others in an L-pattern", but they went with calling it a "knight" like a guy on a horse, jumping over others. )).

Theme can sometimes even be "whatever you want" (as long as you decide & stick with it); take the Firelord for example. Look at his spells. Is there anything in there that's particularly intrinsically "fiery", aside from the Volcano ultimate & Lava Spawn Summons? "Soul Burn: searing magical flame... debuffs & damages target...". "Incinerate: magical flame that cling to the target, enhancing damage... & exploding".
The answer is "no". Blizzard wanted a powerful debuffing/damage-dealing Hero with some pseudo-caster elements but high mobility & destructiveness, and essentially picked "fire elementals!" to go with that want. The abilities themselves could really have almost *any* Theme, but they fit together & on that Hero, so it works. I'll bet you I could make an equally compelling Hero, with those abilities/stats (ROLE) with some other character (THEME); heck, even a water elemental or earth elemental. But maybe a Necromancer or an Ancient or whatever. Seriously.

~OR~

Version 2

So Behold! A silly little "Showcase" map featuring solely -Grendel's work (mainly the Necromagus). Basically just threw together a simple hero with a skillset inspired by the Warcraft 2 Necrolyte from which it's based (with a little Warlock sprinkled in there). It's a minimal mod with the base spells only changed slightly, but using only the Far Seer's spells I think I managed something... interesting. : )

(I) - Orc Necromagus (couldn't think of a better name, so you win this round... )
- Shadow Spear (lobs a nether javelin at a target, dealing damage. pierces through to deal 1/2 damage to another unit)
- Cloud of Poison (channels a foul cloud of sulfuric stench, which rocks the earth and slows enemies in a large area)
- Dark Vision (reveals all invisible units in an area near the Necromagus)
- - Necromastery (summons a massive Bone Golem from the bones of the dead; deals massive damage and defends the Necromagus)
Anyway, hope you enjoy! (I hope to do a better, more custom & thought-out version of this guy... Somewhere. But just wanted to say 'your models are often an inspiration'! )

P.S. Actually, this little exercise got me thinking; it'd be really interesting to try and do a little "Hero Rework Challenge" based on this idea (basically, take a particular hero, modify their skillset (& only their skillset) & make an entirely new hero (dif. race, dif. theme, etc)). Hmm...

I'm kinda partial to the 2nd one myself (more options, more interesting, less of an 'intellectual challenge'), as seen in the Poll. By the way, vote please!

The basic idea, though, is a quick little tour de force; everyone picks a base Hero from the game (one of 16 racial heroes or 8 tavern heroes) and creates an entirely new Hero from it (even different race, melee/ranged, class, etc), using only those abilities as a base! Modify them as you wish (both the Hero & the abilities stats/fields), but your remake of the Firelord into the "LoogieLord" must have edited versions of Soul Burn, Summon Lava Spawn, Incinerate, and Volcano on him. : )

Below you'll find a mock-up of the potential thread. I would like to discuss it, as well as the following salient points:

• Point Values? How much to each Criteria (not as much to Theme & Role & Balance as in previous Contests... But also not too much to "Divergence", since it's a bit more subjective & also more of a "impressed stares" kind of Criteria)
• Timeline (I think, like, 2 weeks is very doable for something like this. Extremely lean & quick. A Month, I guess, at the most.
• Anything else?

=============================================================

EXPLANATION OF POLL OPTIONS:

Triggering: There are good reasons to include custom coding in this Contest; gives more options & all that. However, as I originally cooked this up, my intention was A) simplicity, and B) creative constraints. I feel that allowing triggering at all could become a bit too 'crazy', and/or defile the intentions of the Contest. Think of it this way; if a contestant just 'zeroes out' the fields for a given ability & uses it as a "dummy ability" for some crazy triggered effect that's totally unrelated to the original ability, then what's the purpose of even having that be a constraint? Might as well just do the same for *all* the abilities & make a hero with entirely un-related skills. This is a Contest of "Work With What You Get Choose", originally.

Dummy Abilities: This is definitely related to the above, but subtly different. If triggering is allowed but we somehow limit/don't care about the above issue, a possible compromise to the above is that we allow Triggering, but only if it is to "dummy cast" the original ability (so ultimately, the Hero would have some kind of dummy-targetting ability in it's place; the "dummy caster" would have the actual, edited version of the Hero's original spell & would use it (modified) somehow). I actually sorta like this one (but since I voted "No" to the above, I didn't vote on this); believe me, if I pick the Brewmaster & can dummy-cast "Storm, Earth, Fire" instead of being forced to "normal cast", you won't have to go to 88 mph to see some serious shrooms. >: D But again, this could be seen as a dilution of the original Contest intent.

~~~

Let me know!

 

[Kyrbi0]

Mock-Up // Preview

What it looks like

MacGyver

TITLE

You may remember THW's successful series of Hero Contests... This time around though, we're going back to basics and bringing it home to good ol' Warcraft. A familiar favorite with a twist; the guidelines for this contest are unique! With good planning & execution, the end result will be worthy of taking a spot in the Faction Altars!

You may choose to create a hero for any of the primary Factions (i.e. Alliance, Horde, Scourge, and Sentinels). You are to create the fifth hero for that race, including skills fitting of that hero and that race. You will need to consider how that hero balances with the other heroes in the race and how it impacts the metagame of melee as a whole. It might sound scary, but with solid work and design you can pull through with a winner!

Contest Rules:

• Everybody is allowed and encouraged to enter, as long as they follow the rules.
• One entry per person.
• No submission may violate the Hiveworkshop Rules and Spells Rules.
• Any submission must follow a Work In Progress (WiP), before it is published and labelled as the final piece.

_______________________________________________

Hero Requirements:

• The hero must have only 4 spells, no innate abilities (the only exception would be a female Night Elf hero, with Hide, as this is an existing exception)
• The hero must have a distinct Theme. This Theme is an important part of hero design, and the spells & aesthetics must fit into its Theme. There is no defined Theme for the contest, but you must create your own Theme that would fit into your chosen Faction.
• The hero must have a distinct Role. This Role is an important part of the hero design, and the spells & gameplay style must fit into its Role. There is no defined Role for heroes in this contest, but you must create your own Role that would fit into your chosen Faction.
• The hero should be balanced qualitatively and quantitatively as if it were a standard hero in standard/ladder WC3 melee games.
• Your hero must be a hero for one of the four melee factions' altars. (Human, Orc, Undead, Night Elf)
• Your hero must have one "Ultimate" and three "Level-able Skills" (with 3 levels each).
• Your hero must be designed with a max level of 10 in mind.
• At least two of the hero's skills must be trigger enhanced, but you may trigger more than two of them.
• You are not allowed to make purely cinematic spells. This means you cannot pause the hero, use cinematic mode for any spell, or anything of the sort.
• You are not allowed to use the spellbook ability as any of your spells. Heroes have 3 normal abilities and 1 ultimate no matter what, no bypassing it.

_______________________________________________

Specific Requirements:

Programming Rules:

• You can use any type of coding method you'd like (JASS / GUI / vJass) in designing your spells. (Specify in the entry topic)
• All spells for the hero must be created specifically for this contest, there will be no previously-made spells allowed.
• You may use any script or system from a Wc3 Modding-Site's database for your map. This means if you want to use a system you, yourself, have made, it will have to be approved and in the database before the contest's beginning.
• You are allowed to import and use a dummy unit model with a single bone and the 'origin' attachment. This can be useful for some projectile spells and therefore it is allowed. (Pitch dummies with 180 degree vertical rotation are allowed as well)

Submission Rules:

• When the hero is complete, submit it to the Pastebin with the prefix [HRET1] and send me a private message with a link to the submission thread.
• All submitted entries must use (4)TurtleRock.w3x as the test map. (Modified as necessary, but not with any drastic changes)
• The map you submit your hero in should be set up as a melee map so the hero can be tested in a standard melee game; that means no cinematics or other extraneous additions, aside from:
  • Your custom Hero, it's custom spells (and any triggering/OE-work necessary to accomplish them), etc (your submission, essentially).
  • Triggers which should be provided to allow a single player to test the hero individually with ease and without having to build an altar and gain experience.
  • All submitted entries must have a filename in the format:
    THW.HRC1.<MyHeroName>.w3x
    Example: THW.HRC1.Paladin.w3x
  • All submitted entries must have an in-game map name in the format:
    THW.HRC1.<MyHeroName>
    Example: THW.HRC1.Paladin
• Submitted maps may be no larger than 750kb.

_______________________________________________

Judging Criteria:

• If more than 3 contestants enter, the contest will enter into a public poll, which DEPENDS:
• [[IF Multi-Vote Poll Method]]
• In the poll, users can distribute two points among the contestants. A person can put 1 point towards two different contestants or put 2 points towards any one contestant; it is the user's choice.
• The contestants with the highest points after the public voting stage (Up to 5, depending on how many entries) will move on to be judged based on code and overall hero design by a team of judges
• [[IF Schulze Method]]
• In the poll, users will have to rank the heroes from best to worst, ignoring any of the entries that they want to.
• Clear instructions on how to vote will be posted the day the poll opens.
• The teams with the highest ranks (Up to 5 teams, depending on how many entries) will move on to be judged based on code and overall hero design by a team of judges.
  
• All points earned in each section of judging will be scaled to 1000 points and then weighted equally in the final tallying of points.
• Judges will grade the final (up to) 5 heroes, giving weight to the following:

Design Criteria

Theme:	How well the skills, aesthetics & design fit together in a thematic manner such that they feel like they belong on the given hero (i.e. frost mage with frost spells, warrior with martial abilities, etc). Well-fitting & polished aesthetics which complement a cohesive Theme will be graded well; poorly-considered or lacking Thematic elements will result in a poor score.	???
Role:	How well the skills of the hero work together to achieve the tactical synergy & gameplay style the hero has (i.e. ranged assault, tank, support caster, etc). Comprehensive, well-though-out Roles which complement a cohesive Faction will be graded well; ill-considered, insufficient or over-compensating Roles will lose points.	???
Balance:	Includes how well the hero's Theme, & Role fit into the melee environment in terms of balance, theme, style, complicatedness, and so forth. Overpowered or Underpowered Heroes will result in a poor score; properly balanced elements will mean a good score.	???
Creativity:	How original the design of the hero is in terms of creative ideas, clever implementations, or new concepts. Innovation and creativity will be rewarded; re-use of existing elements & poor originality will result in a poor score.	???
Divergence:	A measure of how dissimilar your Hero is from it's base origins, both in terms of Theme (aesthetics) and Role (gameplay). For example, turning an Orcish Far Seer into an Orcish Necromagus is one thing, while turning a Tauren Chieftain into a Pixie Princess is quite another. Great divergence will result in a good score; little divergence will result in a poor score.	???
	Total points:	???

Coding Criteria

• 
  
  
  • [340] Points Total
  • ===
  • [80] Per Spell:
  • [10] Reusability
  • [10] Cleanness
  • [20] Efficiency
  • [20] Robustness
  • [20] Quality
  • [20] Per Map:
  • [20] Code Reuse

If you would like to judge the contest simply make a post in this thread stating so.
You need to be a user who is knowledgeable in the process of
designing, creating & implementing custom content; and who is known to judge objectively.

• • Username 1
  • Username 2

[*]

• 75 % of the winner shall be determined by the contest's appointed judge(s).

• 25 % of the winner shall be determined by the results of a public poll.

1st 50 reputation points & Your Entry on the award icon. 2nd 35 reputation points & an award. 3rd 25 reputation points & an award. Finished Entry 5 rep

:BEGINS: :ENDS: DAY DAY MONTH DATE MONTH DATE 2014 2014 11:59:59

GMT You have 7 weeks, 49 days, or 1176 hours to complete your submission.

 

[Spellbound]

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...

I mean, this could be pretty cool, but to me that would be something that would have to be put into practice to see if it can work or not. That is to say, if I actually understood what it is you are proposing.

Version 1: So take a hero, understand its theme, and give it a new skillset based on that theme? If so, that would be pretty nice, albeit this just sounds like a hero contest with 're-theme' as it's... theme.

Version 2: Let's say I pick the Warden - I would have to use her existing 4 abilities and modify them to created something new? Without triggering them?

 

[Kyrbi0]

I mean, this could be pretty cool, but to me that would be something that would have to be put into practice to see if it can work or not. That is to say, if I actually understood what it is you are proposing.

Well, sure. But did you click the links? "Version 2" is a link to pretty much exactly that; "being put into practice"...

Version 1: So take a hero, understand its theme, and give it a new skillset based on that theme? If so, that would be pretty nice, albeit this just sounds like a hero contest with 're-theme' as it's... theme.

Not exactly; in fact, that's the opposite of what it is. : ) However, that sounds like a neat idea (though I would have a hard time with that).

(Note: For the ensuing, I will use the Warden since you used it, since it makes a good example; however, I don't our talking about it at length to turn anyone off from choosing it; it's a really versatile base IMO)

If you take a look at the first link on the first post (edited for clarity; search that linked post for "good question" for the pertinent bit), I talk about Theme & Role and what I understand them to mean as it pertains to Wc3 (& other games). With that as a backdrop, when one looks at the Warden, one sees a strong Theme of "jailer/warden of NE" and a strong Role of "assassin/mobility" So if we were doing what you were talking about, one could pick the Warden and, sticking with that Theme, "re-create" the Hero with an all new skillset (keeping the Role? changing the Role? I'd prefer the latter if anything). So maybe a brutish 'tank' "jailer/warden", or an spell-thief-y 'rogue' "jailer/warden". Same Theme, Different Role ("Same Role" would be kinda hard IMO; "come up with 4 alternate assassin-style abilities for a jailer/warden hero!")

"Version 1", as the Quoted section reveals, is actually the opposite: "Keep the Role (?), Change the Theme". With the Warden again, take her & all her abilities, keep her as a "assassin/mobility" hero, & re-formulate her as something else... Perhaps an Orcish Infiltrator? Or an Undead Shadowmage? Whatever. Same abilities, just changing the SFX & such ("Theme", or aesthetics) to 'design' a "re-formulated" hero.

But again, it strikes me that this is more of an intellectual exercise, and wouldn't necessarily be all that fun.

Version 2: Let's say I pick the Warden - I would have to use her existing 4 abilities and modify them to created something new? Without triggering them?

Ah. Now the fun part. : )

So Version 2. "Pick a Hero, and Change (if you want) Theme and Role". "But," you might say, "if I'm basically creating an entirely different Hero, isn't that just a Hero Contest?". To which I say "Yes... Except for the primary Constraint, which is: "you must use only the existing abilities, and come up with something sufficiently interesting & divergent."

Pick the Warden. Lemme give you two examples:

• One could turn the Warden into a NE Arch-Druid (STR) of some kind: shadow strike could be some kind of natural poison thorn, fan of knives could be a bursting-up of tree roots in an area around him, blink could be "forestwalk", and the avatar of vengeance could simply summon something else from the corpses (treants? NE spirits? spirit treants!).
  • This might be neat, but to be honest, doesn't do much besides a sex-change and a minor Role/Theme change; the abilities are still effectively the same, meaning the Hero's Role is essentially unchanged, and the NE already have a Druid-type character anyway, so it's not as needful.
• One could turn the Warden into a Troll Ritualist (INT) of some kind; Reverse the shadow strike so it heals in a burst & heals over time (& +MS to the target friendly), not much to do with Blink but rename it "Shadow Step" and change the SFX accordingly, make Fan of Knives the ultimate and greatly increase the AoE & damage ("Bad Juju", or "Death Rattle"), and turn the Avatar of Vengeance into a normal 3-lvl ability which summons a "Corpse Bomb Ward", which will in turn ignite nearby corpses into big AoE explosions.
  • Just a quick example, but as you can see the Theme changes, the Role changes, the race & presentation drastically changes, and the usage of the abilities (even their placement) is drastically different as well. In some cases (ideally), it might even be difficult to see what was used originally! That's the hope, at least.

I have several cool ideas for the latter (Version 2), and think it could be a really interesting competition. Also, it would be a relatively quick & simple competition; like I said, a month at most. More like a couple weeks.

Does that make more sense?

 

[Spellbound]

Okay, yeah, that does make more sense. Version 2 seems to be the better idea, but it's still too simple for my tastes. Could interest people who don't script though.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Okay, yeah, that does make more sense. Version 2 seems to be the better idea, but it's still too simple for my tastes. Could interest people who don't script though.

Hm. Well, if you say so. Still, hoping this catches some more eyes; I think this'd be a good 'interim' Contest for the short-term.

 

[Kyrbi0]

~Bump-aroo~

 

[Chaosy]

Call me stupid but I don't understand what you're supposed to do.

Take an existing hero and change the abilities?

 

[Kyrbi0]

Call me stupid but I don't understand what you're supposed to do.

Take an existing hero and change the abilities?

Sort of, yes, though not just the abilities; model, icon, SFX, stats, etc. Completely re-make/re-work/retrofit. (talking about "Version 2", which seems the only true option at this point)

Tell me, did you read the posted bit about Version 2 and follow the link to my little "mock-up" version of this in -Grendel's "Orc Necromagus"? It's pretty much exactly that (as well as the example I gave to Spellbound).

 

[Almia]

Because I didn't understand some parts of the thread starter, is this some sort of "rework a wc3 hero" ?

 

[Kyrbi0]

Because I didn't understand some parts of the thread starter, is this some sort of "rework a wc3 hero" ?

So basically, 'yes'. "Rework" here having a somewhat specific meaning:

In General
1 - Choose a base Hero
2 - Modify anything you want about the Hero
3 - Modify anything you want about the abilities
- - BUT you have to keep all the abilities
4 - ...
5 - Profit!!

In Specific (for EXAMPLE)
1 - (let's say...) Paladin
2 - Turn him into a Night Elven Vanguard (priest/druid dude) (new model, new icon, new stats, new attributes, new names, new soundset, attack-mode (ranged/melee, projectile, etc)... etc)
3 - Change abilities (e.g.)
- "Holy Light" becomes... "Ghoulbane", (only) deals increased damage to UD (no heal)
- "Divine Shield" becomes... "Angel Wings", provides temporary invulnerability
- "Devotion Aura" becomes... "Humble Piety", gives (only self) Increased Armor
- Ultimate "Resurrection" becomes... "Reanimation", pretty much the same (honestly can't think of what this could become)
//In all abilities, freely changing SFX, icon, tooltip, field values, placement, etc... Just about everything.
4 - ...
5 - Profit! (Submit and pray (lol) for the best).

^NOTE: The above is a terrible entry and a bad example; demonstrably & objectively worse than any of the other three I suggested in the first post (Orcish Far Seer -> Orcish Necromagus // Night Elven Warden -> Night Elven Archdruid // Night Elven Warden -> Troll Ritualist). However, it's a good "specific" example, following the "generic" form/theory described above.

The key to the Contest is to "rework" an existing hero & it's abilities into a completely new hero; aside from the normal Criteria (theme, role, balance, creativity), points would be awarded for "just how divergent" it was from the base (i.e. turning a Human Paladin into a Human Priestlord is boring & easy... But turning a Human Paladin into an Orcish Warbringer is a bit more (challenging) interesting.

Does any of that help?

~~~

On a side note, I'd really like help understanding what exactly is confusing in the first post & the examples given. Did (any of) you click the link, read the post, and download the "Orc Necromagus" to play around with it? I'm honestly curious (I won't be offended if you didn't. xD).

 

[Almia]

So technically, you just mimic the spells of your selected champs, am i right but you will add/remove/edit or just create something that resembles the base spell

Cool idea

 

[Kyrbi0]

Cool idea

Thanks; if you think so, tell your friends! I'd love to get some more eyes/thoughts/votes on this thing.

So technically, you just mimic the spells of your selected champs, am i right but you will add/remove/edit or just create something that resembles the base spell

Well, sure, sort of. At least, that would be a viable entry... But it might not be a particularly good/interesting entry (time will tell; feel free to prove me wrong! )

For example, if you read the blurb about "Theme & Role" linked in the very first post (i.e. "search for 'good question' part"), you can see that what you are describing is a bit like "Changing the Theme, Keeping the [Mechanics]".

So for example, the Mountain King's Thunderclap might become "Quake Punch", with changed icon/SFX/tooltip & feature the Hero "punching" the earth (new model/animations). But it would still do the same thing it did (same Mechanics (Role)), just have a different "package" (i.e. aesthetics i.e. Theme).

My "Paladin" example is basically that; not much materially changed.

This could be it's own Contest (basically, that was Version 1); however, the real fun/creativity would shine with people free to change everything about the spell, including the Mechanics & other fields. The only constraint/limitation then would be having to use the abilities that the Hero already has, and the fields/values that one can manipulate on them.

Say, for example, taking the Mountain King's ultimate Avatar; let's change it to a normal 3-level ability, then more heavily modify it; make it no longer give HP or Damage, just a bit of Armor and the (innate/un-removable) Spell Immunity. Then change the icon/SFX to some leafy/tree-swoop, name to "Timbermantle", and then you've got yourself a fancy, unique self-buff. Perfect for, say, this lovely lady

The above is the first step towards turning the Dwarven Mountain King into the Night Elven Sylvan Enchantress; a reasonably big step, I'm sure you would agree. All the other abilities could follow suit (though it might be tricky**).

That's the kind of thinking this sort of Contest would encourage; real creativity & ingenuity in re-purposing spells without using Triggers (since then, that's basically just a regular Hero Contest; you can do anything with triggers & dummy abilities...), creating entirely new Heroes from the base of the old.

Does that make more sense?

**

Giving it some more thought, finishing off that "Sylvan Enchantress" wouldn't be impossible. The question is "what's her Ultimate"; it needs to be a fitting replacement. "Bash" is just too boring/basic for it, and Storm Bolt, while powerful, seems "bleh", too. Personally, I'd elect for Thunder Clap (hear me out); it has fields not only for Damage, but for Move/Attack Speed modifying. Remove the Damage field (0's), and crank up the AoE & Move/Attack Speed debuff to the max... Then with some fancy SFX you've got yourself a dandy "Time Stop" (or a real "Tranquility", if you just make Attack Speed ---> 0; enemies can move but they "can't" attack. xD)

After that, you are unfortunately stuck with Bash & Storm Bolt as they are; there's not a lot to mess with on them (i.e. not many fields you can manipulate to interesting effect). I'd probably take as many 'steps' away from them as I could; make Bash deal less damage but Stun for longer (less about "beating people up" and more about "stopping spells & disabling enemies"), and perhaps the same to Storm Bolt. Maybe make Storm Bolt a big tangle of roots bursting out of the ground rather than a thrown hammer projectile. Ah dannae.

That could be pretty OK.

(Man, I can't stop myself, lol)

 

[Kyrbi0]

Sorry for the double-post, but I think I thought of a nice, succinct way to describe the point of this Contest:

Create a hero (with four abilities), who could have the "Reset All Custom Values to Original" button pushed in the World Editor and it would result in a completely normal, vanilla Hero (& the same for their normal, vanilla abilities (i.e. a modified Holy Light/Divine Shield/Devotion Aura/Resurrection on a modified Paladin, and that's all)).

(You all are familiar with the WE's "Reset Custom Values" option, riiiiiiight? xD)

 

[Direfury]

So the options are "Reskin" or "Remake"?

Personally, I'd prefer an option that lets me modify the abilities in some way. For example, turning Raise Dead into Corpse Explode.

 

[Kyrbi0]

So the options are "Reskin" or "Remake"?

That's a way of looking at it. "Reskin" being "freely modify all 'visual/aesthetic/appearance' elements (i.e. "Theme" or "Form"), while keeping all the 'mechanical/gameplay/operating' elements (i.e. "Role" or "Function")", and "Remake" being "freely modify all elements (though only modifying the Object Editor (and, per the constraints, only using what was originally on there))". The former (as aforementioned) is more of a mental exercise; the latter (as described above) is what I'm hoping to make a Contest out of.

Personally, I'd prefer an option that lets me modify the abilities in some way. For example, turning Raise Dead into Corpse Explode.

YES. Precisely. @Direfury gets it, guys. (no sarcasm)

That is, of course, assuming you can do so with no triggers (that being the point of the Contest). I won't tell you whether one can, but if it is possible, then absolutely! And that would be a very good choice; a creative reapplication of the existing Object Editor fields to make an entirely new spell (<-- THE WHOLE POINT)

Sidenote

Now, to be fair, you couldn't actually do that for this Contest, since Raise Dead is a unit ability & not a hero ability; no Hero has Raise Dead so you can't pick a Hero with that "already on them" to modify into a "Corpse Explosion" ability.

But now that I think about it there is a way, still keeping in line with the Contest...

 

[Regent_Artiman]

Hero contest!!! That is excellent!! When do you want start? I am looking for somewhere to place my heros there and here could be Great!!

 

[Kyrbi0]

Hero contest!!! That is excellent!! When do you want start? I am looking for somewhere to place my heros there and here could be Great!!

Thanks for your enthusiasm! Have you read through some of the posts? If so it should be clear this is no "normal" Hero Contest (we have a submission for one of those over here, starting within the next week I'd say), but rather a unique version of one.

As such, while there's no defined 'start-time' for this, the start will largely depend on how popular the idea seems to be; so aside from voting on the Poll & posting more, I'd say 'spread the word' and garner some interest!

Personally I'd wager (due to the nature of the Contest) that something like this could happen quickly (and be over quickly); perhaps even concurrent with the aforementioned "Hero Contest".

Thanks again!

 

[Kyrbi0]

Double-post: @WaterKnight gave me the splendid idea of using the word "MacGyver" to better describe what this Contest is about.

Check the Wikipedia link in the updated first post for details if you're unfamiliar, but TL;DR -- Just like how MacGyver had to use "just what was on hand/readily available" to solve whatever problem he was faced with (coupled with his intelligence & creativity), we the Contestants will have to pick a Hero & then use "what's on hand" (only their normal, given abilities/skill-set) to reforge an entirely new & different Hero.

 

[Daffa]

I like the "remake with all the available materials" challenge. It's quite daunting and challenging to be creative.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Me & Direfury are currently holding a Duel Challenge with this very Theme! Check it out; hopefully it'll help make sense/be cool. : )

 

[Kyrbi0]

Me & Direfury finished, had a Poll (shoulda posted here...), and the Results are out!

Some people have expressed interest in this idea, so I'm (un)officially re-opening this topic for discussion & further Challenges/Contests!

@Krakenn99

I think it's the same as the challenge he did with Direfury, but u can swap one ability of your choice. Still no triggers and only object editor.

Yep exactly.

@Rence Kristoff

So one version of this I thought of would be "Pick a base hero --> Make a new hero out of ONLY it's 4 abilities, EXCEPT you can replace one of them with another in-game ability". Still no triggers, but it lets you obfuscate your design a bit more, have some flexibility to make a certain Role or Theme work for you.

Can you please explain this to me.

Sure. Krakenn99 did a fine job summarizing it above, but I'll give you a 'real life' example from the Challenge as to why it would be useful.

So I was making a Human Crusader out of the Undead Dark Ranger. That meant I had to come up with 4 hero abilities for a Crusader that were modded forms of Silence, Black Arrow, Life Drain, and Charm (and only those). In my case, the first three were pretty good ('good' as in 'lots of modding options, easy to 'hide' what the base was), but Charm was tricky; I made it work, but it was the most obvious (& the worst to balance; the others being too powerful is merely a matter of numbers. Having a non-Ultimate mind control turned out to be pretty tough).

In this suggested Alternative to the Challenge would be that I could choose up to one (1) hero ability from my base Hero (i.e. Charm of the Dark Ranger) to not use, and instead could use any other ability (hero? unit? item? any?) to mod in it's place.

Would still have to use all in-game abilities... And no triggers or custom coding of any kind. But having that "one-ability allowance" lets you replace one particularly troublesome abilities (and in my research/opinion, every hero has at least one 'troublesome' ability), which not only makes it easier to design (i.e. come up with a good Form & Function for hero, good gameplay Role) but easier to 'hide' what your base Hero was (assuming that you would still get a score for "Divergence: How hard was it to guess/how different was your custom hero from the base hero").

Does that make sense?

 

[Krakenn99]

I'm super pumped up for a contest like this. Something I can finally take part of! Doe is it that important to hide the base hero. Like isn't the main goal to have good theme, gameplay and originality? I hope ppl give feedback on this and this actually becomes a thing.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I'm super pumped up for a contest like this. Something I can finally take part of!

Lol, glad to hear.

Doe is it that important to hide the base hero. Like isn't the main goal to have good theme, gameplay and originality?

Well, I've been thinking, and I'm kinda torn. It's only important if we (the users in the Contest) think it is. The value is entirely external. So I've modified the Poll (I FEEL LIKE A GOD MOD) & allowed you to change your Vote; weigh in.

I hope ppl give feedback on this and this actually becomes a thing.

So do I, man. Spread the word!

I know that while personally I am totally not gonna have time in the next few weeks, I might have time going into the future... If you wanna hold a little personal Challenge in the mean-time, go right on ahead. Alternatively, since these kind of Contests can really be done quickly (e.g. 2 weeks), there could be a fast enough turn-around to just Host a Contest or two in the mean-time.

 

[Rence Kristoff]

Yea now I got it. Can't wait for this to happen

 

[Kyrbi0]

Yea now I got it. Can't wait for this to happen

So, like I was saying, nothing is really "happening". At least not from me; I'm supposed to be gone for a bit. I would 100% love to join one of these (Challenge or Contest) but I have 100% no time to do so, much less start them.

However, like I was saying to Krakenn, there's nothing stopping either of you (or anyone else) from Challenging the other... Or even suggesting/Hosting your own Contest! I mean, look at me; I've Hosted a handful of Contests, but I'm no Mod or Admin or "Reviewer" or whatever.

Wait what are the contest rules for the hive? Can anyone ever just host a contest just like that?

Yep. Check out the Stickied threads in the Contest/Arena/Barracks section of the forums (this is especially informative) & jump on it!

And if you don't feel up to Hosting (understandable, it's not nothing), you can always just make the "Submission" thread & find someone else to Host it. Or the Appointed Moderator.

 

[Rence Kristoff]

I'll wait on @Krakenn99, I would love to be up against anybody tbh, as long as it's this easy.