Hero Contest 8: Altar/Tavern Series

[Vinz]

Content removed

Vote

 

[Kyrbi0]

One would take care of icons/skins/model editing stuff and the other would take care of abilities and triggers.

Two people would pair up as a team in an attempt to rework a Hero from the Neutral Tavern into a similar hero with improved visuals and ability cohesion.

- Unlimited Imports
- Up to 8mb map size
-------------------------

Thoughts?

A "Joint" Contest? Especially one with a Coder (spells) & an Artist (preferably making their own custom stuff for the Contest)?
You Had Me @ 'Hello'

Reworking a Neutral Hero?.... Eh, not so enthused.

~~~

Also, I think Deolrin has done a good job (with his recent "Modeling Contest Pre-Poll" & upcoming "Poll") of reminding us how things used to be done around here. For these Hero & Techtree Contests, I think we should get back to this; (that is) not just taking the first idea to come along, or the most well-represented, or just making them up on the spot. Rather, let's gather a bunch of ideas, have a Poll, and VOICE OF THE PEOPLE!

/highlander.

Otherwise, I'm all for this. : )

 

[Vinz]

The last one was solo altar, so I thought paired neutrals would be good.

What I'm thinking the poll should contain;
Artist
- Custom Icons and Skin
- Custom Icons and Model

(not much to decide on coder, at least I think not)

Theme
- Neutral Reworks
- Altar Reworks
- Neutral Addition

 

[Kyrbi0]

The last one was solo altar, so I thought paired neutrals would be good.

Granted... But in the last one I thought a Team-Contest would be good, yet the Voice of the People thought otherwise (although to be fair, if the voting had extended a bit farther... "Team" ended up having more votes).

Basically, while I may dis/agree, I think it best to leave every major decision up to the VotP.

i.e.

Solo?

Team?

Artist
- Custom Icons and Skin
- Custom Icons and Model

Well... Ah dannae. Why vote on which medium the Artists can use? To me that'd be like voting on what coding language the Coders could use. I feel the method shown in the three Wc3C Contests (allowing any kind of "custom artistic resource" but limiting the number of "things" that could be done in general (i.e. model-icon, or texture-model, or anims-SFX, etc) is a much more amenable method.

Artists, feel free to dis/agree there (since this rule wouldn't entirely affect me ).

Theme
- Neutral Reworks
- Altar Reworks
- Neutral Addition

Again, I'm really not keen (and wonder who else would be) for "Reworks" in general. I feel like Blizzard did a pretty good job; why would I want to simply re-create something like the Paladin, Firelord or Death Knight? It wouldn't be likely to fit into the game anyway...

(Unless you meant "reworks" as in the previous Hero Contest idea that was floating around a while back (something like "rework an existing Hero's skillset into an entirely new kind of Hero (i.e. Tauren Chieftain -> Skeletal Warlord, etc)")... then sure, I loved that idea )

Overall, I feel that we should simply simulate what Deolrin (re)started for Modeling Contests... Put up a huge Poll with all the pertinent decisions, and see what people vote.

I of course will be a little biased, but feel that a re-creation of my previous Hero Contest poll (with some additional fields that you mentioned, like "number of things artists can do", etc) would be most useful.

i.e.?

Addition?

Rework?

~

Neutral/Tavern?

Racial/Altar?

~

Solo?

Team?

~IF Team

2 Art Things?

3 Art Things?

4 Art Things?

Unlimited Art Things?

And any others we see fit. Perhaps we want to restrict by Theme (though I'm not a massive fan), or perhaps something else.

Just my two cents. I support the idea of another Contest, though, again. : )

 

[Vinz]

Done. I myself am actually split (though I've originally wanted Joint Neutral before just for variation) between altar (like the previous but could be rework) and neutral, which has a broader range.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

reworking an existing hero would be cool

 

[Kyrbi0]

Now that the previous Hero Contest is over (and while I'm not particularly excited to start another one so soon/before holiday break, with classes drawing to a close & exams looming), I'll go ahead & restate my previous post, looking for some response.

Also, can we get a specific definition of what "Rework" means as as Contest constraint?

 

[Vinz]

Giving a hero a new spellset, and possibly even a new role?

 

[Softmints]

I have a number of themes in mind which I think would make cool hero contests. Should I share them in this thread, or is there a particular organiser who I should be talking to?

 

[Vinz]

Please share it here for discussion.

 

[Softmints]

Sure:

• What would happen if one of the ladder heroes stumbled across one of the most powerful artifacts in the Warcraft III universe? How would their powers change and adapt? A Goblin Alchemist with the Eye of Sargaras? A Keeper of the Grove drinking Mannoroth's Blood? A Mountain King claiming the Horn of Cenarius?
  
  Rules:
  • You are to cross a regular ladder hero with any powerful artifact referenced within Warcraft III or its campaign.
  • This evolved hero should bear some resemblance to its former self, yet clearly have gained new powers. There should be at least some thematic tie between each old and new ability, even if their effects are different.
  • Gaining power should feel like it! The empowered hero should be roughly twice as strong as a regular ladder hero; enough to play 1v2 against hard AIs and comfortably win.
  • Skins + sfx seem like a particularly good fit for this contest.
  • Marks awarded for:
    • Theme: does the hero adhere to the contest? We also want a cohesive character with nice aesthetics.
    • Hero design sense: is each ability pulling the appropriate amount of weight on the hero, does the hero have strengths/weaknesses, etc.
    • Fit for the game: Balance is a small concern (though if a hero is too strong, it won't be fun to test), but we still want a hero that plays as part of a ladder match rather than doing everything on its own.
    • Creativity: are we seeing cool new things?
    • Implementation: functional code, correct tooltips, buff icons on buffs, no missing graphics, etc.
    • Awesomeness: a subjective field
• An accidental time warp has occurred, swapping out one hero from some point in the Warcraft III campaign with a completely different hero! Thankfully, this new arrival is particularly suited to handling the map in which they arrived.
  
  Rules:
  • Contestants must select one map from the Warcraft III campaign and extract it from the mpq. They must then replace one player-controlled hero in that scenario with a hero of their own creation.
  • Nothing about the campaign map may be touched, aside from the insertion of your hero (and adapting supporting dialogue/cutscenes which do not affect gameplay if you like - it will not garner marks though).
  • Marks awarded for:
    • Theme: The arriving hero should have an internally consistent theme, as well as sensible aesthetics.
    • Hero design sense: is each ability pulling the appropriate amount of weight on the hero, do abilities overlap, etc.
    • Fit for the game (I): Your hero should be suitable for addressing the challenges that the player will face in the level.
    • Fit for the game (II): The ideal candidate hero will cause the player to tackle the level in a new or reimagined way. Marks can be equally awarded for a clever combination of the map's mechanics with the hero, or delivering a fun or memorable experience.
    • Creativity: are we seeing cool new things?
    • Implementation: functional code, correct tooltips, buff icons on buffs, no missing graphics, etc. The campaign map should not break!

Feel free to discuss these ideas.

 

[Vinz]

Though the second idea sounds nice too, what caught me for the first idea is this

Gaining power should feel like it! The empowered hero should be roughly twice as strong as a regular ladder hero; enough to play 1v2 against hard AIs and comfortably win.

<3

I'm not sure how the poll's structure be edited though, any ideas?

 

[Almia]

I'll be voting for Neutral.

Racial-based is so Brain-squashing, I mean you need to have a Lore background for this.

The reason that I selected for Neutral is because there are so many heroes you can create

 

[Kyrbi0]

I'm a little leery about voting & posting, thus reviving this thread & the discussion, since I'm not sure I'm in a good position to participate in another Contest... But I cannae resist. : )

I'll be voting for Neutral.

Racial-based is so Brain-squashing, I mean you need to have a Lore background for this.

The reason that I selected for Neutral is because there are so many heroes you can create

Lol... Sure, "Neutral" sounds more expansive. But you (basically) can't do Humans, Dwarves, (Blood) Elves, Orcs, Tauren, Trolls, Scourge, or Night Elves. (well, one can, but you have to find a way to explain why they are separate from the primary Factions & potentially fighting against them, which is not always simple).

But I'm for Neutral too, for the record.

Sure:
[[What would happen if one of the ladder heroes stumbled across one of the most powerful artifacts in the Warcraft III universe? How would their powers change and adapt? A Goblin Alchemist with the Eye of Sargaras? A Keeper of the Grove drinking Mannoroth's Blood? A Mountain King claiming the Horn of Cenarius?

Rules:
- You are to cross a regular ladder hero with any powerful artifact referenced within Warcraft III or its campaign.
- This evolved hero should bear some resemblance to its former self, yet clearly have gained new powers. There should be at least some thematic tie between each old and new ability, even if their effects are different.
- Gaining power should feel like it! The empowered hero should be roughly twice as strong as a regular ladder hero; enough to play 1v2 against hard AIs and comfortably win.
- Skins + sfx seem like a particularly good fit for this contest.
- Marks awarded for:
- - Theme: does the hero adhere to the contest? We also want a cohesive character with nice aesthetics.
- - Hero design sense: is each ability pulling the appropriate amount of weight on the hero, does the hero have strengths/weaknesses, etc.
- - Fit for the game: Balance is a small concern (though if a hero is too strong, it won't be fun to test), but we still want a hero that plays as part of a ladder match rather than doing everything on its own.
- - Creativity: are we seeing cool new things?
- - Implementation: functional code, correct tooltips, buff icons on buffs, no missing graphics, etc.
- - Awesomeness: a subjective field


[[An accidental time warp has occurred, swapping out one hero from some point in the Warcraft III campaign with a completely different hero! Thankfully, this new arrival is particularly suited to handling the map in which they arrived.

Rules:
- Contestants must select one map from the Warcraft III campaign and extract it from the mpq. They must then replace one player-controlled hero in that scenario with a hero of their own creation.
- Nothing about the campaign map may be touched, aside from the insertion of your hero (and adapting supporting dialogue/cutscenes which do not affect gameplay if you like - it will not garner marks though).
- Marks awarded for:
- - Theme: The arriving hero should have an internally consistent theme, as well as sensible aesthetics.
- - Hero design sense: is each ability pulling the appropriate amount of weight on the hero, do abilities overlap, etc.
- - Fit for the game (I): Your hero should be suitable for addressing the challenges that the player will face in the level.
- - Fit for the game (II): The ideal candidate hero will cause the player to tackle the level in a new or reimagined way. Marks can be equally awarded for a clever combination of the map's mechanics with the hero, or delivering a fun or memorable experience.
- - Creativity: are we seeing cool new things?
- - Implementation: functional code, correct tooltips, buff icons on buffs, no missing graphics, etc. The campaign map should not break!

Feel free to discuss these ideas.

You know... While I'm pretty big into the classic "add a normal custom Hero to the RTS game" theme, if we do go for a specialty theme, these are two really good options. Between the two I think I prefer the "Time Warp" one. Would the Hero we designed be meant to fit to Blizzard standards (i.e. 10 levels, three 3-level abilities, one 1-level Ultimate ability, etc) & paradigms (i.e. no attribute-based abilities, not-a-made-up-race, fantasy-esque, etc)?

I'm not sure how the poll's structure be edited though, any ideas?

(I didn't know users could change polls...)

What I'd do is just put all the options up that you could. Some of these can be grouped together for ease-of-understanding: Import Limit (e.g. none/some/all), Teamwork? (e.g. solo/team), and Type of Contest. That last one would have "Classic - Neutral/Tavern", "Classic - Racial/Altar" (those 2 cover "Addition"), "Classic - Rework", "Themed - Artifact Ascension", "Themed - Time Warp", maybe "AoS" (for those that want it), and then "Other".

Something I started to write months ago but forgot what for, but can't bear to delete in case it was important...

Here we're establishing//I'd like to establish the idea of the "Classic" Hero Contest (one in which each entrant "creates a Hero to Add (compatibly) to the Standard/Ladder/Melee Game")