[GUI-friendly] Disable System (Stun,Silence,Disarm,Snare)

[zv27]

We already have a bunch of these...

 

[_Guhun_]

We already have a bunch of these...

But they work differently, from what I've seen, and don't have the option to get elapsed time. They also require a Unit Indexer, which this does not, and are based on another ability that can't stun buildings (but bypasses spell shield, which blocks this). Anyway, this is getting updated to something a lot more useful soon. (thought of it just after posting this :S ).

 

[IcemanBo]

(thought of it just after posting this :S ).

What is is?

 

[_Guhun_]

What is is?

Instead of only being a stun system, it will be a stun/silence/disarm/ensnare system like they have in Wurst. Might also add entangling roots and doom

 

[IcemanBo]

Will you work with the SilenceEx approach? Because I think it was good to have all these stuff working with if, if combined.

 

[_Guhun_]

Will you work with the SilenceEx approach? Because I think it was good to have all these stuff working with if, if combined.

What do you mean by taking that approach? :S

I'll add diferent silences based on the awesome knowledge providade by that guide, but I don't know about adding complex things like permanent silence of an ability :S

 

[IcemanBo]

What do you mean by taking that approach? :S

I used an other approach (cargo ability) here, which works fine as standalone. But It only can handle disabling attack, for example.
And if I was about to add more possibilities, like you probably want, I said that I think it's probably good to work with the SilenceEx approach explained in the linked thread.

 

[_Guhun_]

I used an other approach (cargo ability) here, which works fine as standalone. But It only can handle disabling attack, for example.
And if I was about to add more possibilities, like you probably want, I said that I think it's probably good to work with the SilenceEx approach explained in the linked thread.

Aaaah. I was going to use drunken haze to disable attacks, since it's basically the same as thunderbolt :S Though drunken haze doesn't stack with itself, so if I want to disable both attacks, I can use your system and use drunken haze for only 1 type of attack (ranged or meele)

 

[_Guhun_]

UPDATE: version 2.0.0

-Changed the system from a simple stun system to a multi-negative-status effect system
-The name is maintained, because most people will be looking for a "stun system" and not "multi-negative-status effect system"
-Updated some of the description, but not all of it (yet)

 

[Reventhous]

This system is all about disabling target, I think you should name this system to "[GUI-friendly] Disable system".

 

[KILLCIDE]

Having a GUI system that allows you to stun, snare, silence, etc would be awesome.

 

[zv27]

GSS Clean Death should be in GSS Main trg.

 

[_Guhun_]

GSS Clean Death should be in GSS Main trg.

Well, it's not really needed because all the leaks would get cleared eventually when the timer expired, it's just there as a small performance boost :s

Even if I moved it to main, it would still require the creation of a trigger, so the amount of memory used by your map would be the same :s Isn't it better that it stay more explicit?

This system is all about disabling target, I think you should name this system to "[GUI-friendly] Disable system".

Hmmm, I like that name actually. Still think people will search for Stun system more, pity there aren't any tags for the spell section =/

But I guess I'll change the name, since it's more fitting

Having a GUI system that allows you to stun, snare, silence, etc would be awesome.

Yeah, I'm excited to get this system in a really good/useful state.

UPDATE:
-Version 2.1.0:

-Name changed from Stun System to Disable System
-Added GDS Main Modifier Trigger
-Fixed SUPERSILENCE not working on aerial units

 

[Tasyen]

Nice System had recently a similar idea.

You could make it more easy to use by implementing constant integers which point directly to the specific effect. That would make copying more stricted and avoid constantly switching to the GDS trigger to look for the Right index of the wanted effect.


Do you intent to inser the other Disables too?

• sleep
  
• hex
  
• entangled (Nightelf Spell - Immobile + Disarm)
  
• cyclone (Nightelf Spell - Stun + Invurnable)
  
• Banish (Making Ethernal, Bloodmage Spell)

 

[zv27]

Well, it's not really needed because all the leaks would get cleared eventually when the timer expired, it's just there as a small performance boost :s

Even if I moved it to main, it would still require the creation of a trigger, so the amount of memory used by your map would be the same :s Isn't it better that it stay more explicit?

The point is, one system, one trigger nothing else
You can check whether the unit is dead directly into the main code.
GSS Clean Death trigger is redundant.

 

[Chaosy]

I believe the recent memory hack got built in natives for this, which means this can be done with one line.

 

[_Guhun_]

Nice System had recently a similar idea.

You could make it more easy to use by implementing constant integers which point directly to the specific effect. That would make copying more stricted and avoid constantly switching to the GDS trigger to look for the Right index of the wanted effect.


Do you intent to inser the other Disables too?

• sleep
  
• hex
  
• entangled (Nightelf Spell - Immobile + Disarm)
  
• cyclone (Nightelf Spell - Stun + Invurnable)
  
• Banish (Making Ethernal, Bloodmage Spell)

I was going to add those, except Hex. Because you can't really choose the model for hex, so I don't know how useful that would be for most people :S


What you suggested would result in too many triggers, I think. How about a function that converts a string to an integer, if someone really has trouble remembering? Like "call GDSType("stun")" will set GDS_Type to 0? Would be better to just write it down or write it in a text file that's open :S

And what do you mean that it would make copying more stricted?

The point is, one system, one trigger nothing else
You can check whether the unit is dead directly into the main code.
GSS Clean Death trigger is redundant.

I dunno about the death thing, now. It's not really that useful, tbh. I just noticed it doesn't check for every negative effect. I'll think of something.

I believe the recent memory hack got built in natives for this, which means this can be done with one line.

Well, the memory hack is against EULA and TOS (not that I really have an issue with that, but some people might). And I'm pretty sure it can't be pulled off using the normal editor (it's pretty complicated to use without THs NewGen) and probably will get patched by the Blizzard Classics team =/

 

[Tasyen]

I didn't said using Strings. What i suggested is that you make for each effect an integer variable which has the right index and its name contains the effect.
This allows it to select with the predifined WE set action pretty easy.
Something like this.

• Nahkampf-Initialisierung
  • Ereignisse
    • Map initialization
  • Bedingungen
  • Aktionen
    • Set GDS_CONSTANT_STUN = 0
    • Set GDS_CONSTANT_SILENCE = 1
    • Set GDS_CONSTANT_DISARM_R = 2
    • Set GDS_CONSTANT_DISARM_M = 3
    • Set GDS_CONSTANT_DISARM_BOTH = 4
    • -------- The later usage --------
    • Set GDS_Type = GDS_CONSTANT_SILENCE

Indeed Hex will look wierd with the not reducing expiring time which is shown in the unit Interface.

Stricted
If you use this constants inside your init-Trigger setuping the right spells will be pretty clear if copied into map allready containing allot of spells which might showing allready made spells.

• set GSS_ABIL[GDS_CONSTANT_STUN] = GSS_STUN
• set GSS_BUFF[GDS_CONSTANT_STUN] = GSS_STUN (Pause)

 

[_Guhun_]

I didn't said using Strings. What i suggested is that you make for each effect an integer variable which has the right index and its name contains the effect.
This allows it to select with the predifined WE set action pretty easy.
Something like this.

• Nahkampf-Initialisierung
  • Ereignisse
    • Map initialization
  • Bedingungen
  • Aktionen
    • Set GDS_CONSTANT_STUN = 0
    • Set GDS_CONSTANT_SILENCE = 1
    • Set GDS_CONSTANT_DISARM_R = 2
    • Set GDS_CONSTANT_DISARM_M = 3
    • Set GDS_CONSTANT_DISARM_BOTH = 4
    • -------- The later usage --------
    • Set GDS_Type = GDS_CONSTANT_SILENCE

Indeed Hex will look wierd with the not reducing expiring time which is shown in the unit Interface.

Stricted
If you use this constants inside your init-Trigger setuping the right spells will be pretty clear if copied into map allready containing allot of spells which might showing allready made spells.

• set GSS_ABIL[GDS_CONSTANT_STUN] = GSS_STUN
• set GSS_BUFF[GDS_CONSTANT_STUN] = GSS_STUN (Pause)

Aaaah, now I get what you mean.

Well, that's going to create a lot of variables, but it IS pretty useful. I'll post an update soon.

UPDATE: v2.2.0
-Added Sleep, Entangle and Ethereal effects
-Created integer variables for each effect to increase QoL and readability
-Moved old setup and GDS Clean Death to obsolete folder
-Changed ability, buff and Dummy names from GSS to GDS

UPDATE: v2.3.0
-Added method of reducing remaining effect time
-Created an example usage: Unyielding Resolve

 

[_Guhun_]

UPDATE: v2.3.3:
-Added an example of setting minimum stun duration
-Made GDS Main Modifier an empty template, moved example to separate trigger in "Example Usage" category.
-A few other minor changes to comments and test map

 

[Tasyen]

I like this System and tried it out, again, found 2 problems:

1. System does not affect Invisible Units. (You could solve that by changing the dummie casters owner to the same as the Target's one) EDIT: Or by Allowing Vision for the Dummie Caster owner over the Target.
2. It Leaks 10 Locations in your Init-Trigger: at the Creation of the dummie casters.

 

[_Guhun_]

I like this System and tried it out, again, found 2 problems:

1. System does not affect Invisible Units. (You could solve that by changing the dummie casters owner to the same as the Target's one) EDIT: Or by Allowing Vision for the Dummie Caster owner over the Target.
2. It Leaks 10 Locations in your Init-Trigger: at the Creation of the dummie casters.

Oh, I know about it not affecting invisible units and have been working on fixing that (well that was easy to fix) and other things.

I'm uploading it now with the new features (possible permanent duration and an event that runs just after a unit dies) and with that invisible unit bug fixed.


About the leaked locations, I didn't want to add a new point variable just to stop 10 non-repeating leaks :S Don't know how much memory a location leak takes, but it's definitely minimal. EDIT: Nvm, just thought of a way to fix that.


UPDATE: 2.4.0

-Support for permanent duration added
-Support to get the time just after an effect is applied (time will likely be less than 0.006 seconds)

-Made DUMMY unit invisible so it would not reveal a piece of the map when casting the ability.
-Fixed a bug that prevented invisible units from being affected (requires that owner of GDS_DUMMY units have vision from all players.)
-Removed location leaks in setup trigger
-Added advanced GDS Main Modifer example.
-Expanded test map to 256x256 to test stunning units that are very far away from the GDS_DUMMY units.
-Added test map command <permanent> to toggle that the next stun be permanent. Call this command again to untoggle.
-Added Example for Event usage (well, it simply sends some game messages)

 

[Tank-Commander]

The system is simple, short well made and a lot of effort went into building the test map. There are clear useful applications of the system and there are no notable flaws with it for a GUI-Friendly disable system that I could see

 

[_Guhun_]

Update: 2.4.1

-Just a small update to the resource page, adding a few keywords to the title so that people can more easily find this system.
-Removed useless code from map header and added comments to Setup trigger for better clarification

 

[Cherrymage]

Interesting idea...

 

[_Guhun_]

Version 2.5.0:

-Fixed an error when cleaning Hashtable: changed RemoveSavedInteger to RemoveSavedHandle in GDSDebuffEnd function
-Removed Debug message when a stun fails
-Updated code in description and changed title

I recommend users who have downloaded a previous version and imported it into their map to download this newest version and import it instead, as the error described above could cause memory leaks.

 

[maxodors]

@_Guhun_ one thing that is missing is adding custom FX

 

[_Guhun_]

@_Guhun_ one thing that is missing is adding custom FX

You can alter the FX used by the buffs using the Object Editor, it doesn't require any coding.

 

[maxodors]

You can alter the FX used by the buffs using the Object Editor, it doesn't require any coding.

The problem is this changes FX for every spell. Therefore, it is impossible to have different FXs for a frozen unit and stunned unit. Essentially, they are both stunned but require different FX. Same can be applied to other buffs.

It would be great if it was possible to customise the buff for each spell. Otherwise, if a user wants to freeze a unit, the unit will have a buff of "stunned", which does not look nice. This problem also might appear in some other instances.

 

[_Guhun_]

The problem is this changes FX for every spell. Therefore, it is impossible to have different FXs for a frozen unit and stunned unit. Essentially, they are both stunned but require different FX. Same can be applied to other buffs.

It would be great if it was possible to customise the buff for each spell. Otherwise, if a user wants to freeze a unit, the unit will have a buff of "stunned", which does not look nice. This problem also might appear in some other instances.

That's exactly why I recommend that the buff FX be removed in the description, because in most cases the FX should be controlled by the spell itself, not by the stun debuff. They are only included in the map because it makes testing easier.

Adding an FX for every occasion is beyond the scope of this system, as it only handles the initial application of the stun debuff itself and the total stun duration for each unit. It does not keep track of each individual stun application. That is better handled by a dedicated buff system (which is the main reason for which permanent stuns were added, as those systems generally use their own timers and would only use this system to cast the stunning abilities) or by the spell itself.

In the case of freezing a unit instead of stunning it, you might be able to get around it by adding a new stun type and a new ability and buff for it. Though this doesn't really scale very well, if you need a lot of different stun types it might be better to just use a dedicated buff system to avoid flooding your object editor.

 

[maxodors]

That's exactly why I recommend that the buff FX be removed in the description, because in most cases the FX should be controlled by the spell itself, not by the stun debuff. They are only included in the map because it makes testing easier.

Adding an FX for every occasion is beyond the scope of this system, as it only handles the initial application of the stun debuff itself and the total stun duration for each unit. It does not keep track of each individual stun application. That is better handled by a dedicated buff system (which is the main reason for which permanent stuns were added, as those systems generally use their own timers and would only use this system to cast the stunning abilities) or by the spell itself.

In the case of freezing a unit instead of stunning it, you might be able to get around it by adding a new stun type and a new ability and buff for it. Though this doesn't really scale very well, if you need a lot of different stun types it might be better to just use a dedicated buff system to avoid flooding your object editor.

Thanks for your answers. It seems like I need to look at this topic in more detail. As I am just a beginner, I thought you might help me to guide me in the right direction. In my map, I want to have items that reduce negative buffs durations (stuns, charms, slows and etc)[similar to MR shoes in LoL], and I want to have items that can remove certain negative effects from the unit (either casted by an ally to a friendly unit or casted by stunned/charmed/slowed unit itself (similar to QSS in LoL). What is the best way to approach this? Maybe you can recommend some systems posted or something else.

Another question I have is I have a spell that should deal damage more to frozen units (doesn't matter who froze the unit). Is it better to track frozen units through buffs or add them to a group or some other way?

Thank you in advance. I would really appreciate your advice.

 

[_Guhun_]

.

That really depnends on how complex you want your systems to be. If it's something like Divinty OS or Pokemon, where most status effects are standardized, then this system should work pretty well. You would just need to add a new stun ability for frozen units (just copy the stun ability and buff from the object editor and then change the name/FX) and for whatever new status effects you need.

An example of a non-standardized game is WoW, in which Rogues have two stuns: Cheap Shot and Kidney Shot. Each one can be individually removed, they don't share the same "stunned" buff. If status effects are not standardized, then you will probably need a dedicated buff system (I'm not very familiar with any of the ones available, as I generally use my own). This is not the type of scenario this system was meant to handle by itself (though you could still use it just to apply the actual stun using permanent stuns and then control the duration with individual buffs).

As for a unit removing disabling effects from itself, that's not really possible, as you can't issue orders while the unit is unable to act. The best you could do is some sort of custom UI solution that doesn't depend on the unit receiving orders, just on the player clicking a button.

To deal more damage to frozen units, I would use a standardized frozen debuff. Then when casting that ability you just need to check for the presence of that buff.

 

[Elprede]

@_Guhun_ Did you not take a look at GBS at one point or another? Perhaps, that system could fit the bill here.

 

[_Guhun_]

@_Guhun_ Did you not take a look at GBS at one point or another? Perhaps, that system could fit the bill here.

Maybe, but it's been years since I last had a look at it, so I can't really give any advice about using it specifically. It's probably the best GUI-friendly option, though.

 

[maxodors]

That really depnends on how complex you want your systems to be. If it's something like Divinty OS or Pokemon, where most status effects are standardized, then this system should work pretty well. You would just need to add a new stun ability for frozen units (just copy the stun ability and buff from the object editor and then change the name/FX) and for whatever new status effects you need.

An example of a non-standardized game is WoW, in which Rogues have two stuns: Cheap Shot and Kidney Shot. Each one can be individually removed, they don't share the same "stunned" buff. If status effects are not standardized, then you will probably need a dedicated buff system (I'm not very familiar with any of the ones available, as I generally use my own). This is not the type of scenario this system was meant to handle by itself (though you could still use it just to apply the actual stun using permanent stuns and then control the duration with individual buffs).

As for a unit removing disabling effects from itself, that's not really possible, as you can't issue orders while the unit is unable to act. The best you could do is some sort of custom UI solution that doesn't depend on the unit receiving orders, just on the player clicking a button.

To deal more damage to frozen units, I would use a standardized frozen debuff. Then when casting that ability you just need to check for the presence of that buff.

I think I will need different stun buffs. I have a MOBA, and I use stun to stop casters from using other abilities and etc. A follow up on frozen debuff. What spell can I base it off? I can't use bolt because of the same orderID.

 

[maxodors]

@_Guhun_ Did you not take a look at GBS at one point or another? Perhaps, that system could fit the bill here.

Thank you for posting. I will take a look.

 

[_Guhun_]

I think I will need different stun buffs. I have a MOBA, and I use stun to stop casters from using other abilities and etc. A follow up on frozen debuff. What spell can I base it off? I can't use bolt because of the same orderID.

You can use bolt, the system creates one dummy for each ability to avoid order id issues (though I guess to be as efficient as possible it should use just one dummy and then add the ability when needed, didn't think of that at the time )

 

[maxodors]

@_Guhun_ Did you not take a look at GBS at one point or another? Perhaps, that system could fit the bill here.

Is it hard to make it work an 1.26?

 

[maxodors]

That really depnends on how complex you want your systems to be. If it's something like Divinty OS or Pokemon, where most status effects are standardized, then this system should work pretty well. You would just need to add a new stun ability for frozen units (just copy the stun ability and buff from the object editor and then change the name/FX) and for whatever new status effects you need.

An example of a non-standardized game is WoW, in which Rogues have two stuns: Cheap Shot and Kidney Shot. Each one can be individually removed, they don't share the same "stunned" buff. If status effects are not standardized, then you will probably need a dedicated buff system (I'm not very familiar with any of the ones available, as I generally use my own). This is not the type of scenario this system was meant to handle by itself (though you could still use it just to apply the actual stun using permanent stuns and then control the duration with individual buffs).

As for a unit removing disabling effects from itself, that's not really possible, as you can't issue orders while the unit is unable to act. The best you could do is some sort of custom UI solution that doesn't depend on the unit receiving orders, just on the player clicking a button.

To deal more damage to frozen units, I would use a standardized frozen debuff. Then when casting that ability you just need to check for the presence of that buff.

I finally got to the stage of needing your system, and I am planning to use this buff system with yours [vJASS] - Buff System. If I use your system for permanent stun and track it with a buff system, I will end up having two buffs instead of one. How can I avoid having two buffs on the unit? I think in the example you mentioned, they don't run into this problem.

Another problem is in this case I can't apply buff reduction, since stuns on your system are permanent.

 

[DexterFstone]

tnx, very helpful

 

[KitsuneTailsPrower]

I found a bug: In rare use cases a unit can become stunned permanently. The best way I know to re-create it is in this test map if you have the Paladin cast Flame Nova on the Peasants enough times the unit that gets hit will become permanently stunned. It may take you at least 3 minutes of spamming flame nova but it does happen. This has also happened to me with other abilities using this system but this is the easiest to re-create.