Fourth Age Middle Earth - War of Men

[VeljkoM]

I just remembered.Were is the entrance on map?

 

[Artins the Great]

The entrance to the Agorland is in Helms Deep, the glittering caves is a another name. The same cave that was used to stuff the refugees of Rohan in Helms Deep in the movie. That's this cave.

 

[Ghost765]

isnt that still a rohan bastion?

 

[Artins the Great]

Dunno it's said that Gimli later brought Dwarves and lived in the cave. It's said that Agorland was most important Dwarven base during the Foruth Age.

 

[Arvedui]

Clarification:

Helm's Deep was a fortress, that was used in times of need.

Aglarond* was colonized by Gimli and was a major colony for Durin's Folk in the Fourth Age, as Artins has said.

If anything, Helm's Deep should cover the entrance to Aglarond.

"The dwarves of Aglarond restored the Hornburg following the War of the Ring, and it became a fortress they shared with the Rohirrim." - Wikipedia

 

[Artins the Great]

Yes suh, I knew that.... I gotta question for ya guys to solve, when I add the gate to the Helms Deep, Who would get control of the Gate? Rohan or the Dwarves? Giving it to Rohan sounds correct thing to do, but then Dwarves will have to ask the Rohan player to open the damned door every time they wanna go out and have fun. And what if the Roah player leaves? The Dwarves will have to crack open it's allies own gate to get in and out.

 

[Ghost765]

make an alternate route. Remember how the gamling guy said there was another route that lead another way out (well atleast in the movie). just make it so that only the dwarves can get in/out.
make rohan control helms deep, but add a few dwarven fortifications on the outside aswell, to show their bond or w/e

 

[Artins the Great]

Aye Aye. I agree, but what if a enemy uses that route to attack Helms Deep from behind, Almean than the Great Fortress Gate is there for nothin.

 

[Ghost765]

make it so only the dwarves can use it.

 

[Artins the Great]

Okey.

 

[Ghost765]

ooohhhh
I KNOW!
make it so they casted a similar enchantment like on the gates of moria, so when a unit enters a region near the entrance, they have to say something, and the door opens!
when the door is closed, its invulnerable.

 

[Artins the Great]

You expect me to do that? no no no ain't got no skills. Besides, lots a magical things like that are gone in Fourth Age, if not including Morgoth coming from another dimension.

 

[Ghost765]

alot, but not all. Its not hard my friend. lets say that "Friend" is the password. When a unit enters "glittering caves entrance"
owner of triggering unit types an exact match 'friend'
open glittering caves entrance (if u used the rolling stones gate)
wait 15 seconds (or something else)
close glittering caves entrance

edit: orrr...you could let me do it >.> <.<

 

[Artins the Great]

I could try, but I'm too far away from doing any triggers yet. I will do terrain and make units first to get people interested, do the boring triggers, (or hire someone cause I'm bad at these stuff) and release the beta!~~~~ When I get to the triggers, i will besure to ask you. +rep

 

[Ghost765]

moar rep! moar!
although im not too great at triggering, i know the basics.

 

[Arvedui]

A really simple solution would just make a trigger with a chat string like (-open Helms deep) and make it usable only by Rohan and the Dwarves.

Most LotR maps use that, and it's really simple.

 

[Ghost765]

but then either rohan or dwarves could be a bitch and betray each other and let the enemy come in.

 

[VeljkoM]

But why would someone do that.Rohan and dwaves are allies.Either of them have no profit of doing that.

 

[Arvedui]

Artins could also make a trigger that doesn't allow that.

I think he should anyway, just to keep the game fair. Even if he doesn't do what I suggested.

I hate games when your ally backstabs you when you're in his base.

And especially with LotR, the alliances are pretty much always set.

 

[VeljkoM]

So what will it be.Maybe dwarves will use only caves to go in and out and Rohan will use gates.
Will enemy have to conquer Helms Deep to get in Dwarven base?

 

[Ghost765]

apparently so.
well, didnt ring wars or w/e have the -ally -unally option?
it benefits rohan since fucking grima rose from the dead and took over, and decided that the bad guys should get to kill the dwarves.
i still think an alternate route would be nice.

 

[VeljkoM]

I think that sides here are fixed.And when Grima rose from the dead?
He was killed in Shire by hobit arrows.

 

[Handycombinder]

i dont think that you should enter a chat string is a good idea, because if you forget to switch to observer chat then the enemy can kill you (unless you have defences)

 

[VeljkoM]

Well enemy can't be that quick or patient.Enemy can destroy gate so he doesn't need to wait for it to be opened.

 

[Ghost765]

no, thats why i suggested you make the gate invulnerable. the Gate of Moria is invulnerable, and it required the password to enter.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

Well that can have some flaws, if that's the only entrance (or the rest is blocked). Because the guy outside can mass a huge army, wait wait and wait, insert the password and commit raw slaughter. Or the other way around.

 

[VeljkoM]

Then how will people invade bases.Waiting until defenders open the gate?
Or maybe use some kind of siege towers?

Edit:With triggers only defenders would be able to open gate.I have seen it before.

 

[Artins the Great]

Siege weapons such as catapults or Rams will be able to destory the gates by attacking.

 

[VeljkoM]

Oh so gates will be able to be destroyed by siege weapons.But will you at least consider the siege tower it is easy to make.

 

[Ghost765]

i meant the alternate route into the glittering caves, if artins decides to use it, since dwarves use mithril which is almost indestructible.
EDIT:siege towers are not easy to make.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

Say Artins, may I ask; What kind of models are you using for your map? Maybe you can show us a list?

 

[VeljkoM]

But alternate route will probably be used by the dwarves only.
So gate is the attack point.And Helms Deep gate is not made by dwarves (i think).

Edit: TheDivineBoss is right.Maybe we critics can help.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

I sincerly hope Artins didn't used the regular (female) High Elven archer model for heroes like Legolas (overrated guy anyway).

 

[Ghost765]

god... have you not been reading what ive posted?
Since it seems like a bad idea that only rohan will be controlling helms deep, i suggested that artins make a cave route out of the glittering caves, since gamling mentioned it near the end of Two Towers when the Uruks are about to break through. Now, i dont remember if this was in the book, but we dont have to be straight accurate.
I suggested that a password be used to open the indestructible alternate gate, since thats what they did with moria.
I'm also pretty sure Gimli and his band of dwarves fortified helms deep with mithril as they did to Minas Tirith.

 

[VeljkoM]

If there is still Legolas.This is post Third Age so Leolas should be in Valar by now.
But he did use models on Haradrim and Mumakil.We will just have to wait untill terrain is finished.

Edit:Yes we have to be accurate.And he said that gates can be destroyed by siege weapones.
Dwaves should use caves and Rohan Heelms Deep like you said.Or both can use it.

 

[Ghost765]

god, i hate people like you who are Follow-Fluff-Or-I-Dont-Like-This

 

[VeljkoM]

Excuse me.I am just trying to help.No need to start flaming.

 

[Artins the Great]

Hey Hey no fightin, Here is the List of Models I'm planning to use. I usually prefer using original WC III models, but some of them are just too wonderful to miss.

Hellscream.blp - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site [works for any evil hero barbarians.]

Mammoth - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site [Perfect model for Mumakil]

Royal Captain - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site [Demi Hero for Gondor or Elves or Easterling]

Bloodelf Pikeman - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site [Pikeman, Spearman for almost any faction]

[updated] - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site [Pure Legolas]

Fel Orc Enforcer - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site [Found it today, works for any orc heros]

Dwarven axe thrower - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site [Pure Dwarf]

Heresiarch (Modified) - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site [Morogoth]

Hope this won't explode the WC III. If you found/have better model than please suggest.

 

[Ghost765]

i could give you a weaponless mounted footman. and a footman archer that i made that doesnt look half-bad. just used animation transfer.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

If you use Urukais I suggest this one then;

Link

Big note; The skin is HUGE, but you can try to modify it by yourself, the model itself around 120 kb, thank god.

 

[Arvedui]

Heh, I used the Heresiarch for Morgoth in my map too. The only problem is that he doesn't have a weapon, I suggest using this for Grond (his hammer/mace): PaladinHammer - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site

The model by R.A.N.G.I.T is perfect for Legolas, good choice. Are you planning on using the skin in the skin section for Gimli?

And you didn't like that I used custom models just for 1 hero. Tsk Tsk Artins

Warning, for the Uruk skin, it sucks and looks horrible in-game. At least I think it does.

 

[Artins the Great]

Aye Aye thanks for Hammer Link

Legolas model will be used for Ranger of Ithilien and Woodland Archers or something with teamcolored netural hostile. I found it useful since if you team color them, the heroglow becomes too faint for anyone to see from ingame height I set. So in your face!

Gimli skin, I dunno it looks good, but all these models are plenty enough in my opnion, I will get to it later.

And I am not importing such a big ass model for just one kind of unit, Almean Dunland won't even spawn Uruks... They just start with few of them.

 

[Arvedui]

Aye Aye thanks for Hammer Link

No problem.

Legolas model will be used for Ranger of Ithilien and Woodland Archers or something with teamcolored netural hostile. I found it useful since if you team color them, the heroglow becomes too faint for anyone to see from ingame height I set. So in your face!

lol! Fine fine, you win

Gimli skin, I dunno it looks good, but all these models are plenty enough in my opnion, I will get to it later.

Yeah, well it's your choice. Small map size is important.

And I am not importing such a big ass model for just one kind of unit, Almean Dunland won't even spawn Uruks... They just start with few of them.

I totally agree.

 

[Ghost765]

hm, do u want the knight/archer? i also have a modified version of elenai's shieldbearer turned archer, with his permission.
EDIT: No, you may not give these simple edited models to anyone else, or give them to someone else while theyre in an open source map. Ask me for the original portrait of the lieutenant knight if you want.

 

[VeljkoM]

What happened to this model?It was created for your request.

 

[Artins the Great]

I guess it was turned down..

 

[VeljkoM]

To bad you can't use models from other games.But you can still use soundboard.
I have LotR map with sounds from Lotr gameXD.
Any way normal models can work.
But didn't you say that dunlanders will have orc archers?What are you going to o for them?

 

[Artins the Great]

Music would be nice, I could take down one or two models from the model list and import the music.....

The Dunlanders, already got their own archer, they don't need orc archer.

 

[Arvedui]

I would say NO music because it destroys the file-size. And if you want it playable on b.net it's almost impossible to have music and not be over 4mb.

Only if you get a really small music file but have it repeat, but that gets annoying.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

If you are adding music in it, keep it small and/or make sure it's loopable so the people wont notice it has an end in it.

You also can try to compress the music. I've heard .mp3 files are quite smaller then (for example) .wmw.