Fixing Mass Migration

[Wark]

So, as an international English teacher, I've been hearing a lot about mass migration problems into Europe.
I have a solution. The only thing that would get in the way is bureaucracy or migrant laziness.

1) Assign a plot of land in the wilderness to the migrants.
2) Give food and shelter support for a year, with tools/seeds/farm animals.
3) If no migrants have farming or construction experience, send volunteers from the local community centers or missionaries from local churches to do what they're good at.
4) Ween the new migrant community from government support while properly monitoring the community's health. Assign local law enforcement, fire fighting teams, basic administration as needed if the community doesn't develop this already. Develop its infrastructure with the migrant population present.
5) Integrate the newly formed farming community into the native country's society once it is self sustainable.

Theoretical result: new jobs for migrants and natives to the country. People are fed. They take care of themselves with minimal government funding.

 

[Zombie]

So your solution is basically:

1) Make a self-sustaining segregated community of people following a segregationist religion and support them with free money and tools to sustain and amplify that segregation
2) Wait
3) After having left them segregated and self-sustaining for years, suddenly force your culture and dominance on them

Genious, should totally work.

 

[deepstrasz]

All we need is to spread yeggs!

 

[Naze]

As Zombie pointed out, the major problem of this solution of making a partially segregated community is that they'll eventually want political independence over the years and probably won't feel connected to the culture of the country in which they migrated.

For example, in Brazil a similar thing happened centuries ago, but with German/Dutch immigrants (and without such government support as you suggested). As a result, those rural communities evolved into cities like this nowadays:

Spoiler

They have their own culture and architecture, which differs from the rest of the country. They have a separatist movement too, and there were several political and armed conflicts in the past.

The feeling of not belonging should be avoided at all costs, specially because political conflicts may kick in at anytime. So creating small rural communities of immigrants have this potential downside.

 

[Devine]

Ah yes, very nice. Can we also have it so that the people can't leave and that our western laws don't exist there? And also we film it all and put it on tv for admoney. We call it "Migrant paradise in the wilderness"

 

[GhostWolf]

Pretty sure there's a far easier solution - use borders as sovereign countries and let in actual war refugees, not anyone who has a different skin tone, while at the same time kicking out all illegal immigrants, rather than giving them money and moving their families in, always at the expense of legal citizens.

But someone might get offended!

 

[pyf]

[...]
1) Assign a plot of land in the wilderness to the migrants.
2) Give food and shelter support for a year, with tools/seeds/farm animals.
3) If no migrants have farming or construction experience, send volunteers from the local community centers or missionaries from local churches to do what they're good at.
4) Ween the new migrant community from government support while properly monitoring the community's health. Assign local law enforcement, fire fighting teams, basic administration as needed if the community doesn't develop this already. Develop its infrastructure with the migrant population present.
5) Integrate the newly formed farming community into the native country's society once it is self sustainable.

Theoretical result: new jobs for migrants and natives to the country. People are fed. They take care of themselves with minimal government funding.

Has this video game been released yet?
...
...
... oops, wrong forum. Sorry.

 

[deepstrasz]

Has this video game been released yet?

 

[Chaosy]

Don't allow immigrants without education.
Fixed.

 

[Wark]

I apologise if the post offended anyone, as I simply wanted to state an opinion to open a discussion.
This is something important to me.

 

[Zombie]

No one is offended.

It's simply that your idea would never work.

 

[Xonok]

The thread title sounds a lot like "Fixing history" or "Fixing human nature" or "We probably shouldn't have bombed them to the stone age and armed all their radicals".

 

[Devine]

I'm maybe a pretty radical dude for saying this but selection based on IQ would be pretty handy dandy. At least they can contribute to our gene pool in the long run.
Especially considering dumb people will be out of jobs anyway in a couple of years since you know... AI and machines and stuff. I'd like a society with less morons, but that's just me.
Besides intelligent people learn faster which renders them useful sooner, and they are probably a bit less likely to do primitive idiotic shit in our countries like raping women or crossing highways etc.
Like it's obviously unspeakable we'd send idiots back to their country to die, but we can't let them all in anyway, can we?

Just you know... taking human potential and use it. Morally reprehensible, sure, but it's not like you can take in a shitload of new people and unleash them in a totally new society and not have any disruptive side effects. It's like harvesting oranges. You pick the big bright ones out and put them up for sale. They have value. The ugly oranges become orange juice. Which means we could also take the bad immigrants apart for functional body parts. Otherwise they are just completely useless.

So here's a summary: Let in the smart immigrants, and sell the dumb immigrants for body parts.
It's that or the decline of the west, basically.

---
Edit: okay so I'm obviously being sarcastic, and there is not one simple solution. It's very likely to me that if the trend continues, choices will have to be made on pretty random and fucked up criteria like I demonstrated. There is a certain threshold, and when we pass it, I'm pretty sure the European people will say "fuck it" and go stone cold on immigrants. It'll depend on the global climate. It wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Nowow]

Especially considering dumb people will be out of jobs anyway in a couple of years since you know... AI and machines and stuff. I'd like a society with less morons, but that's just me.

> Implying that education equals intelligence. Instead of things like tuition fee.
> Implying that big shiny oranges are better than ugly ones. ORANGE RACIST!

That aside, the big problem with that idea is that people will fall in for the most established order of society available. That means without a strong existing Western/democratic established structure to embrace them (if that is what you want), the immigrant society will fall back to the already established religious structure and law, which is very much engrained in them, and has the "blueprint" of a working society, even if that society is not to your liking.

 

[Zombie]

So here's a summary: Let in the smart immigrants, and sell the dumb immigrants for body parts.
It's that or the decline of the west, basically.

 

[GhostWolf]

Only a few comments, and already the typical western self flagellation is there.

Please, can someone explain why any country "has to" take in countless work immigrants at the expense of its own working class?

This has nothing whatsoever to do with any war or refugees, stop joking at yourself and look at reality.

Look at what happens in Germany, Sweden, England, and there are probably other examples I don't know about. Europe is getting disintegrated for the benefit of rape gangs, criminals, and segregated communities that want nothing from their hosts except free stuff.

Of course, if anyone says any of this, it's time for the thought police to arrive, you can't say anything bad about immigrants when the majority of them belongs to the religion of peace, now can you?

 

[Shar Dundred]

Feel free to contribute a solution, @GhostWolf. A wall Trump-style?
Sure, give them a reason to gather outside those walls and form groups.
Then let those groups, growing more desperate and/or greedy and/or hungry begin seeing us
as the enemy.
Let them try to gain access with violence instead of letting them in on our terms, relatively anyway.

EVERYONE KNOWS that the current handling of the situation isn't good, but please don't give me your
"just build a wall" bullshit. You are making a fool of yourself if you believe that this would work in
the long-term.

 

[deepstrasz]

EVERYONE KNOWS that the current handling of the situation isn't good, but please don't give me your
"just build a wall" bullshit. You are making a fool of yourself if you believe that this would work in
the long-term.

It worked in medieval and modern times where there was discipline in ruling and less democratic liberalism where everyone can say and vote on a whim.
Segregation is not a solution at all. Integrating people separately is better. Don't put all or most immigrants from one country in the same place. Put some of them in different country regions. This way, they'll be assimilated.
Of course, it should work like this too: if they don't want to work for their own existence given the current situation, then they have no place there because those who take them in have no obligation to sustain them while the immigrants don't do anything for the society. You're not in your country anymore as an immigrant until you adapt to the said country's way of life. Sure there is some cultural intermingle but you as an immigrant are not supposed to come change the country, unless of course, which in rare examples, you can do it for the better like how a Syrian had quite a positive impact on the emergency medicine in my country.

 

[chobibo]

Mass migrations during the Migration Period didn't end well for the Roman Empire, probably as a result of segregation.

 

[GhostWolf]

Feel free to contribute a solution, @GhostWolf. A wall Trump-style?
Sure, give them a reason to gather outside those walls and form groups.
Then let those groups, growing more desperate and/or greedy and/or hungry begin seeing us
as the enemy.
Let them try to gain access with violence instead of letting them in on our terms, relatively anyway.

EVERYONE KNOWS that the current handling of the situation isn't good, but please don't give me your
"just build a wall" bullshit. You are making a fool of yourself if you believe that this would work in
the long-term.

In case you are not aware, there are such things as borders, and border security. What form they come in isn't really relevant. I am pretty sure Trump did not make up the idea of a sovereign nation being able to protect itself from outsiders and regulate who comes into it.

Your logic is a bit flawed - if you won't let anyone come in, people won't come.
If people are trying to get in by force...that's why you have border security and armed forces.
If your argument is that you can't stop illegal trespassers from coming into your country, maybe the solution is to get proper security, rather than letting anyone come in freely, like a weak injured dog waiting to die.

Obviously if you are the Swedish government, and you hate your own people but love anyone with a darker skin, what follows is that people with darker skin come en masse.
And this is not hyperbole or anything, you can freely read online the statements of these self-hating governments that are destroying their countries.

So do you commit cultural suicide to a murderous ideology, or do you get a backbone and protect your countries?

 

[deepstrasz]

In case you are not aware, there are such things as borders, and border security.

Sure but killing/shooting people like they are trying to get over the Wall of Berlin (as happened in a middle eastern country some days ago) isn't really ideal either.

 

[Shar Dundred]

So do you commit cultural suicide to a murderous ideology, or do you get a backbone and protect your countries?

So, according to your point of view, we should simply shoot everyone who tries to get past our borders?
That's what your post is saying, anyway.
The "solution" you provide seems to be limited to "close borders, shoot everyone who tries to get past".
That's no solution.

Obviously if you are the Swedish government, and you hate your own people but love anyone with a darker skin, what follows is that people with darker skin come en masse.
And this is not hyperbole or anything, you can freely read online the statements of these self-hating governments that are destroying their countries.

Can you provide a link for that statement or at least provide a single, not-insane reason why ANY government should do something like that?
Most politicans are corrupt, they're doing most of what they're doing for monetary reasons.
Destroying your own country is just bad business.

 

[GhostWolf]

While shooting everyone crossing the border IS actually a solution, it is not what I wrote.

There's a very big difference between:
1) Saying your people SHOULD be a minority in their own country, and it is indeed good that they are dying out (I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something around these words, welcome to Sweden's leading politicians).
2) Not letting in every single dark skinned person because of his/her skin color (and they say right wing people are racists...)
3) Shooting everyone who wants to come in.

This is you just going hyperbole not actually replying to what I wrote, and not offering any solution of your own, or explaining how it is some country's duty or moral obligation to let in people in the first place.

Note that nothing I am writing is about war refugees, which are a small minority of the people getting into those countries (which again, you can easily find with a simple google search).

 

[San]

 

[Napoqe]

As Zombie pointed out, the major problem of this solution of making a partially segregated community is that they'll eventually want political independence over the years and probably won't feel connected to the culture of the country in which they migrated.

For example, in Brazil a similar thing happened centuries ago, but with German/Dutch immigrants (and without such government support as you suggested). As a result, those rural communities evolved into cities like this nowadays:

Spoiler

View attachment 295818

They have their own culture and architecture, which differs from the rest of the country. They have a separatist movement too, and there were several political and armed conflicts in the past.

The feeling of not belonging should be avoided at all costs, specially because political conflicts may kick in at anytime. So creating small rural communities of immigrants have this potential downside.

I'm not sure if most of the southern people were going to be sympathetic to this movement.
I am a Brazilian, and I live in the south of the country. But do not wish to separate the south of the country remains. The Brazil that I believe, has a national culture that is Portuguese, rice and bean. I think these cities of German colonies are mixed, I think most have tried rice, bean and pizza. I wish to know the German culture for three motives:

1) I have great suspicious, that most are not very ethically mixed (with other ethnicities) german Women most have blue eyes and is caucasian (wish of courtship with woman with these characteristics).
2) I am descendant of Germanic, one of my surname is a German word, which is translated shepherd, "Hirt"
3) The History, I'm against Nazism. Technological evolution, discipline, economics, etc. Germany today is powerful power (it has problems, but I think most have optimum quality life, etc.), it is in front of Brazil (I believe it will be a powerful power also)

But I have heard that in these colonies the German language is taught in childhood. I think some of this people know more than 1 language, Portuguese (things related to the Brazilian State must have this language in writing, etc official language of the republic) and German (coming culture of immigrants).
The Brazilian State is racist, has racial quotas for universities and public competitions for some ethnicities (black, etc). I think most of the blacks in the country are poor even, but instead of racial quota, puts quotas to poor and middle class people.

For me countries have to have borders. So as not to enter bad intentional. Good people (filters) who need shelter, I think the country can let them settle down.
The good actions in Brazil I think, it's hospitality, I think that most of the people of the country good to immigrants. I think the wave of Haitian immigrants helps in the economy, I even welcome to them on a pizzeria that some of them were working.

 

[nagami]

Loving this thread! sub'd