Dwarven Monster Slayers

[Moderator]

10:57, 15th Mar 2014
Orcnet: damn I swear I made a filling criticism about this project some day ago, I might as well redo it all over again, for now its approved rating may vary.

 

[savinguptobebroke]

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssss ,

THANK YOU

 

[Doomguy80]

Thank the gods

 

[X-Death]

Woot! Thank you!

 

[Isobar]

Man I'm getting my butt kicked on this map, can barely get past the first wave playing with my wife... although she's terrible, so may not be the best judge of difficulty.

 

[Isobar]

So am I missing something here? How do I get gold to buy items?

 

[MoCo]

There are 3 ways to get gold: monster drops, barrels and selling items you do not need. However, don't expect gettin' too much gold in the first place.

The game is not meant to be a peace of cake, still it should be absolutely beatable if you get used to the heroes, abilities, monsters and such. So best of luck!
BTW: If you want, you can share your playing experience in the project forum: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/dwarven-monster-slayers-709/.

EDIT: Based on what you've said, I'm currently thinking about increasing the barrel loot rate so destroying barrels is more rewarding. Point noticed for next update.

 

[sonofjay]

Congrats on the released Moco! Feedback later or tomorrow.

 

[Hell_Master]

Great job! I have been waiting for this, expect a feedback here and at the thread later on or soon.

 

[neo_sluf]

I vote for rejection! Pls. reduce the awesomeness ...

Hidden

Wow gonna review this map soon! Good job on the release! HR!

 

[MoCo]

Thanks guys! Let me know what you think!

 

[Isobar]

Well after playing for a few hours, here is my feedback.

1. Gameplay wise, I have no complaints at all. The skills feel good, the characters are all useful. But I'm not a big fan of the mechanics behind the characters. This map lacks any sort of feeling towards building a character up. You have all the skills when you start the game, and you get no customization when you level up. All there is to do is try and get better items. With gold being so rare (Just as a test, on single player using godmode, I went from wave 1-3 with all 5 heroes fighting and by the end of wave 3, I had found 2 pieces of gold totaling I think 4 gold) it just feels too luck dependent. At least if I get gold per monster I kill, I know eventually I can afford to buy some items to help me along.

2. Characters:
I played a bit as each character, and enjoyed them all, but I really found out that this game is impossible if you don't have someone playing the healer. I won't complain too much about that, as you clearly state this game is about tactical teamwork... but I'm just personally not a fan of a map forcing you to have to play with a certain combination of characters.

3. I haven't gotten passed wave 3 playing without cheats, so the game is definitely difficult. But I was also trying to play it with my wife, who is fairly new to gaming and is pretty terrible. I hopefully can get my regularly WC3 Lan party group to try this out sometime this month.

4. Terrain: I didn't wander around the map too much, so I can't comment on it fully. The main combat area you start off in good for what it is, basically a tower-defense map with 5 dwarves instead of towers.

My overall judgement is I don't think this map is for me. I'm not saying it's bad, but I play maps for the character development, and this map doesn't offer that. If you're looking for a fairly difficult survival/defense map, this is definitely worth checking out, but plan on dying a lot. The custom monsters and skills are all very well done. I would love seeing you do a rpg map using a lot of the features in this game however!

 

[MoCo]

Thanks for your feedback!

Well, yeah, this is not very much about character development nor is it a typical relaxed RPG. The focus is clearly on playing your chars right and strategically team up to survive as long as possible. In that way, I want this game to be similiar to Killing Floor, but with the dwarven RPG flavor.

As it regards your specific points:

1. Yeah, I've already adressed this in the 0.81 update I've just released. Now, barrels provide more gold so you can buy some equip in the lower waves already.

2.+3. I definitely want the map to be beatable with as much different hero combinations as possible. honestly, in my playtests with friends, we always had hunter, priest and engineer combo. But before I draw any conclusion here, I'd like to wait for some other peoples feedback on team setups. Chapter I really isn't that difficult if you know what to do. Did you play with 2 heroes or 3? Which combination did you actually play? Maybe, the problem wasn't the missing healers, but that dangerous monsters like mummies hadn't been taken care of fast enough? (the hunter works great here, maybe the slayer is a bit underpowered in v0.81 in comparison)

Edit: One more question - I hope you haven't played in singleplayer with all 5 heroes at the same time? Because this won't be a good idea since the game is more difficult the more heroes are playing and you just won't be able to efficiently handle all heroes at once, even if you're very good at micro management. For SP, I recommend to use 2-3 heroes.

Anyways, balancing all the stuff is a tough challenge and I'm happy for any reports on playing experience (please always include the hero setups).

 

[Isobar]

Thanks for your feedback!

Well, yeah, this is not very much about character development nor is it a typical relaxed RPG. The focus is clearly on playing your chars right and strategically team up to survive as long as possible. In that way, I want this game to be similiar to Killing Floor, but with the dwarven RPG flavor.

As it regards your specific points:

1. Yeah, I've already adressed this in the 0.81 update I've just released. Now, barrels provide more gold so you can buy some equip in the lower waves already.

2.+3. I definitely want the map to be beatable with as much different hero combinations as possible. honestly, in my playtests with friends, we always had hunter, priest and engineer combo. But before I draw any conclusion here, I'd like to wait for some other peoples feedback on team setups. Chapter I really isn't that difficult if you know what to do. Did you play with 2 heroes or 3? Which combination did you actually play? Maybe, the problem wasn't the missing healers, but that dangerous monsters like mummies hadn't been taken care of fast enough? (the hunter works great here, maybe the slayer is a bit underpowered in comparison)

Edit: One more question - I hope you haven't played in singleplayer with all 5 heroes at the same time? Because this won't be a good idea since the game is more difficult the more heroes are playing and you just won't be able to handle all heroes at once, even if you're very good at micro management. For SP, I recommend to use 2-3 heroes.

Anyways, balancing all the stuff is a tough challenge and I'm happy for any reports on playing experience (please always include the hero setups).

1. My only concern with this is barrels don't respawn right? So now you're basically making it a mad dash for everyone to break barrels right away in order to get money and loot first.s

2. Like I mentioned, I was trying to play with my wife, so I wouldn't take my comments on difficulty too seriously. Playing solo, I was doing 2 character combos and was never able to get past wave 3. I tried a few different combos, but never was able to get just 2 people to gel. I know I was able to just set the hunter on auto pilot if the waves were coming out of the side, the eagle pet is able to shoot stuff through walls... that might be something you should look at fixing.

 

[MoCo]

Don't worry about the barrels - all found gold and crystals are given to all playing heroes, no matter who loots them. Let's continue the other discussion in the project forum.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

1st try - what the f*ck happened (hunter, priest, paladin)

2nd try - oh now I'm getting the hand of it! oh wait no, I got steamrolled again (paladin, priest)

3rd try - this thing needs difficulty settings or more documentation on how to play (warrior, priest)

edit: let me put the combinations before i forget them

The models are nice though!

 

[Hell_Master]

The Hive Workshop Official

Map Reviewer: Hell_Master Map Name: Dwarven Monster Slayers Map Author: MoCo Originality Map is pretty much original. It has some RPG/Dungeon Crawl/Defense feeling in it and I salute you for making a map such as this with combined map types. Score: 84/100 Presentation Presentation is pretty much short but neat and leads to its Hosted Project Page which provides great amount of informations. Nothing much to say and nice job! Score: 79/100 Design The Minimap Image looks great and fitting while Loading Screen could have some more visuals in it except for the Game's Logo. I do think it would better if you will add a game scene in your map as a background image at the Loading Screen or depends on how you will do it. It could also have an introduction in it. Others looks pretty much fine and there is no problem in it of course. Score: 63/100 Terrain Terrain is quite great and is pretty much detailed for a map. Nothing much to say and it is pretty much great! Score: 90/100 Object Data Everything looks fine and well. Map/File Size looks reasonable for a map that is great and fun to play. Score: 69/100 Gameplay The game looks indeed fine though I would suggest you to let players choose their desired difficulty instead of scaling difficulty depending on number of players in-game and also even with a scaled difficulty, its quite hard. I would suggest is lessen the monster spawned at each Waves because its like Hardcore even at Wave 2 and 3 of Chapter 1 and also saying my ally is not use to the game yet. Also, it would be great if you will raise the chances of gold dropping at Barrels and also at monsters to make each of them worth fighting. Others looks great though it is just the difficulty that is greatly bothering me which for me is not quite newbie-friendly. Score: 61/100 The Loading Screen could still be improved by adding an image at it instead of just a logo which looks simple. Also, add some sort of an introduction in it or descriptions. It would be much better. The difficulty could be tone down or better yet let players choose the difficulty. Lessen the spawned monster because even at Wave 2,3 and so on, its quite hard to handle such massive amounts of monsters and Cave Trolls. Monsters chances of dropping golds should be raised so it will be worth fighting them instead of just for experience and winning a round. The game could be more friendly to starters and newcomers. Final Score: 74.333/100 4/5 Vote for Approval Contact: (Visitor Message) / (Private Message) / (Map Reviewers)

 

[Shanghai]

terrain is nice.

 

[MoCo]

Thanks for your review Hell_Master! However, I found some of your ratings a bit arbitrary, respectively, not very traceable. For example, Object Data, Score: 69/100 What do you mean exactly and how comes the rating? What should be changed to get a higher rating here? For each downrating, there should be a clear point so that one knows what is missing and what needs to be improved regarding that point.

I like the idea to add a little description to the loading screen though.

As it regards difficulty, it seems that some people complain about the game being too hard. However, I need to point that louj3580 beat the game after 2 days, and points that Chapter 2 and 3 might even be a bit too easy, see here: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...gestions-ideas-235550/index2.html#post2467221

Therefore, I'm really not sure if it really is too hard, or weather some people expect too much on the first try. This isn't meant to be a piece of cake and some skill and experience are definitely required. Anyways, I recognize that difficulty options are necessary here, so I will add difficulty modes (EDIT: done!).
After all, which map version did you reviewed? The low amount of gold had been kind of an issue in 0.80, but there should be more than enough by now (also, see the linked report from louj3580, maybe it is even too much gold right now).

 

[edu667]

THIS GAME IS FREAKIN AWESOME ! 10/10

Gory,nice terrain and awesoome

 

[MoCo]

Well, so here is the 0.84 update, introducing difficulty modes. This is for all of you who think the game is too hard. The others might enjoy the new hard and insane modes. I've also extended the map description here and added some hints for beginners.

Well, right now, the difficulty modes are implemented with a quite quick and dirty approach. I hadn't found the time yet to really test them. Basically, they just affect toughness of monsters and the amount of score. As soon as I find the time, I will add loot depending on difficulty (higher difficulty = bigger challenge = bigger loot). In addition, I'm working on setting the systems so that monster also do higher damage on higher difficulties. Then again, a lot of testing will be necessary. Since work awaits from this week on, don't expect updates being as fast as they are coming now.

 

[edo494]

...

If I have to be honest, some of those values look like pulled out from ass

Namely: Presentation, Design, Object data

Like, you said ooh its great and stuff, and you give it like < (3/4)*100; that doesn't make sense to me

edit: Is this map solo-playable? Not like, winable, but playable

 

[Deleted member 219079]

I will test the new version, thanks for that quick update

If I have to be honest, some of those values look like pulled out from ass

Namely: Presentation, Design, Object data

Like, you said ooh its great and stuff, and you give it like < (3/4)*100; that doesn't make sense to me

Hey, don't diss 2012 people!

Edit: oh shit your too...

 

[sonofjay]

.....

Would you just stick with 1-10 instead of 1-100. Your score isn't really gives justice since you just give it very short insight.

And you would save us a lot of scrolling if you trash that fancy layout and unnecessary information like Object Data and Presentation. Originality can also fall on the gameplay. That will give you more time on giving opinions about the gameplay and terrain.

EDIT:

Hey, don't diss 2012 people!

The irony though.

 

[edo494]

I will test the new version, thanks for that quick update



Hey, don't diss 2012 people!

Edit: oh shit your too...

I didnt even noticed he joined in 2012, because that isnt factor for me, I just checked at the post and what was wrote in it

 

[MoCo]

edit: Is this map solo-playable? Not like, winable, but playable

Yes. It is. I've soloed with the hunter and managed to beat Chapter I incl. the boss. I haven't continued afterwards though. Of course you can always choose to play more than one hero in singleplayer.
This is just a guess, but I think with a highly equipped hero the full game might be beatable solo. I will test this some day and probably add a special achievement for beating the map solo.

 

[Sheep]

Could you add the map version to the map file?

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Could you add like super easy difficulty, it seems still too hard even on easy :/

 

[MoCo]

Really? Hmm, I see.
Well, right now, Easy difficulty only reduces the monster health, but not their damage. The reason is that reducing damage is quite tricky in terms of programming with the damage event system I use. But I see what I can do about this. Maybe I find a smooth way to reduce monster damage on easy as well . That should make things much more easy.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

If you're going with reducing damage, maybe just reducing attack speed, because it would lower DPS.

 

[MoCo]

Alright then. I changed the damage modifiers to a command aura based system. This way, I can easily set any damage modifiers, even negative ones, without too much coding troubles.

Last update for today: 0.85b. Now, on easy difficulty, monsters deal only 65% of normal damage. That should smooth things out a lot and help beginners to get into the game.

 

[Sheep]

Can you add a -clear command, to remove the code from the screen, after we type -save?

 

[MoCo]

Can you add a -clear command, to remove the code from the screen, after we type -save?

Yes. Will put this on the list.

 

[edo494]

I played it on easy mode before this update

I played solo, with Warrior, Priest and Hunter
wiped twice, but it was a lot of fun, it took me according to the timer 114 minutes roughly and I ended with 75K score

But I abused one corner nearly whole game lol, until the hell fire guys started appearing

I have a suggestion tho

Tou could hide the multiboard when doing cinematics, mainly the final one as it wasnt possible to see all the texttags

Also, when priest and hunter died during the last boss fight, it was easier than harder tbh, zhe kept me making hostile and teleporting
You could disable the Hostility thing if there is 1 hero alive left, because while hostile, I regened mana ao insta heals and they also went running god knows where

 

[MoCo]

Hehe, and new easy mode is easier than ever before..
I still need to balance and adjust the difficulty values though.. nothing's final here.

Thanks for your feedback edo494; these are good points. I'll definitely adress them in the next update.

As it regards your corner-strategy, this is a game aspect of very high relevance. I don't think it's abuse, it's a valid strategy. However, I dislike the fact that this strategy is even possible in the game. I actually want to force players to move on from time to time. I would also like to see some battles where the heroes have to fight in uncomfortable places for some reason to keep things spicey. The randomly located merchant helps a bit, but it's not enough I'm afraid.

So, as a matter of fact, I'm still searching for a good gameplay mechanism that forces players to move on, respectively, that encourages them to stick in certain places from time to time (which may not be the places they want to stick). Any ideas regarding that point are VERY welcome and much appreciated.

A possible, quick idea would be to spawn dangerous, damaging ground effects on a place when heroes stick there for too long.. or, maybe better, to just spawn these ground effects on random, good locations so that particular areas are temporarily locked from time to time. This might work already, but I dunno... maybe you have a more elegant solution?!

 

[savinguptobebroke]

Hello sorry for the wait internet was down . On my first try at the game I got slathered by wave 3 so I left the game until I got home with my brother so we could lan . We played with an archer and engineer and managed to win the game on our second go how ever we did flop once .We are both rather good at miro and ( we used the ability to shoot through wall to a devastating effect)

So far I have enjoyed the Hero design and their abilities I have noticed that the archer is the only hero that doesn't have a defensive ability , not complaining just pointing it out if you have over looked it .

The monster design is good, I especially like the models in HP love craft tribute wave.
At first there were some things that bugged me like how long the waves were , that I couldn't get past wave 3 on single player extra but after a few matches I started to really enjoy the game .

Pros
-I like how you are give just enough mana to keep abitlites coming out at a steady pace but not spam them so please don't change this too much.

-Nice terrain so pretty , some things I would like you to change a but over all a great look.

-The game really shines out in multiplayer as I single player I found it miserable as I couldn't get past wave 5 , however in multiplayer it was on of the bet multiplayer experiences I have had in a long time.

-Hero design is good as I have highly enjoyed my current plays with the engineer and the berserk , and my Brother enjoyed the archer.

Cons
-I would like you to make single player easier as you cannot micro the heroes to their full potential by your self and I would like for you to take that into account.

-so far after 4 complete games from start to end we have found only rather plain items not as it level of items but as in the bonuses of the item as all the weapones we have found give an increase in the attack/spell power and have yet to find much else .The items a pretty much the same just upgraded versions.Would like to see more special items that have more interesting effects and that effect the heroes abilities e.g. increase or improve them adding new effects .

-The game will be very hard for a person who has poor micro or who is new to Warcraft or gaming.

What I would like to see in the future.
-more interesting items
-easier single player
-a way to track completed achievements
-increased randomization and I want each match to feel more different from the previous.
- no longer able to shoot through walls .

Bugs
-I have already reported one.
-If a player leaves the game their dwarf will not be in the final cinematic.

Rating
I would love to give this a 5/5 but I can't I think it deserves more and because I thing it can improve which I hope it does in the coming months.

Highlights of game play
-getting better items
- the HP Lovecraft wave and the spiders , my to favorite waves in the game
- deciding where to defend
- final cinematic is awesome love it so much !!!!!!!!
-game in general

Keep up the great work thanks for awesome game really enjoy playing it would give 1 million rep but I can't so +1 rep for now.

 

[MoCo]

Thanks for your great feedback, savingup!

- More items:
Yes! Totally agree, especially weapons can use more interesting, individual effects. So yeah, there will be a big item update, however, this point has to wait until some some other things are done before I guess.

- Easier singleplayer:
I think with the new easy mode, it really should be easy enough. If it's still to hard for some people, they just have to get a lan game running - as you've already said, the real magic is in multiplayer here - it's not really a game with SP focus at all.

- Tracking achievements:
Alright, good point. I will add these to the stats. Or, maybe, I'll add a new command that displays everything you've achieved during the game. This way, you can display all your achievements and such, take a screenshot and post it here to show that you are badass.

- Increased randomization:
Again, totally agree. That's also a direct match with the things, I've mentioned in the post before yours. I want different situations from game to game, and not always defending in the same sweet spots. This has highest priority for me right now since it will have a big impact on the fun.

- Shooting through walls:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I still think there is no way to prevent this from happening. Walls use air pathing blockers and in the WCIII engine, pathing blockers can be shoot over. If anyone has a solution for this, would be great of course.

- Individuality of chapters:
This is a point not on your list, but a major aspect I'm planning to improve. I think the chapters should feel more differently in terms of combat mechanics. In Chapter 1, you have masses of small monsters, some dangerous ones and few fatties. I think for chapter 2, there should be something different. Maybe less small ones, but more fatties, but less monsters in total (a bit like in wave 11)....


So, this isn' finished yet. I will keep updating the game til we all can surely say that there's nothing left to do.

 

[savinguptobebroke]

On the shooting through wall I think there was something in mercenaries however I could be wrong. You could also make it that you cannot see through wall thus you can't shoot through them.

BUG
When you face the Royrn dwarf that you face at the end of the 2nd chapter you can attack him during the cinematic.

Individuality
My brother thinks you could add a cinematic or some dialogue for the special waves ( spider , sea creature and when you fight the elite guards that teleport)

Units Suggestion

The Lurker

The Lurker is an ancient creature that roams the dwarven halls .This creature is meant to prevent camping and is released in chapter 3 or 2 . The creature is a moving living shroud of darkness the creature decreases the players vision radius and causes hallucinations feeding on their nightmares.


HP : ??

Speed :slow

Also if you have't added a link to the map at the main forms please do so.

 

[MoCo]

Lurker hm? Not a bad idea at all. I'll think about this.

EDIT: Good news. Seems I found a solution to set the walls to block the line of sight (which also prevents shooting through in most situations).

 

[edo494]

that is still rather temporary fix, if I hero gives sight behind the wall, others can safely do the same as before

I have a true fix in mind, but I have to test it to see if it will work

If you are intersted o how I did it, I can attach replay(saved it ) to post so you can see what I abused a lot, even tho the big demons with AoE rain of fire wiped me once

I cant micro properly but I just spammed heals on warr and bear and they wrecked the enemies , so I didnt find it astonishingly hard, but quite challanging


Edit: I more suggestion, make Acquiration range of warrior bigger, because currently its as big as his attack ranve, so unless something really wanta to bite his azs, or I order him Attack ground somewherd, he will ne just standing still looking at the bear get smacked

 

[MoCo]

Here's 0.86 and it is a big update this time:

- Chapter II has been drastically improved/changed. There now is a reaper demon going around, very slow, but deadly. It's no longer possible to stay in one place for too long now. In addition, chapter II now features less total monsters but more deadly ones. As a consequence, the overall feeling and playing experience should be very different to chapter I now.

- Other improvements with this version: Walls now block line of sight, loot chances are now depending on the difficulty, there are some new commands, a more informative loading screen as well as multiple small bug fixes.

I think the new chapter II needs some testing though. I think it's more difficult now than before. I've also probably left some bugs on the way..

 

[edo494]

Here's 0.86 and it is a big update this time:

- Chapter II has been drastically improved/changed. There now is a reaper demon going around, very slow, but deadly. It's no longer possible to stay in one place for too long now. In addition, chapter II now features less total monsters but more deadly ones. As a consequence, the overall feeling and playing experience should be very different to chapter I now.

- Other improvements with this version: Walls now block line of sight, loot chances are now depending on the difficulty, there are some new commands, a more informative loading screen as well as multiple small bug fixes.

I think the new chapter II needs some testing though. I think it's more difficult now than before. I've also probably left some bugs on the way..

I shall never update my map again, so I can camp!!!

 

[Deleted member 219079]

I shall never update my map again, so I can camp!!!

Same here, anti-camping is boring

 

[savinguptobebroke]

Here's 0.86 and it is a big update this time:

I think the new chapter II needs some testing though. I think it's more difficult now than before. I've also probably left some bugs on the way..

We have just attempted a play through of the newest version on hard and we failed sadly , second level in the second chapter. The reaper adds a new exciting element to the game as do the stronger but fewer monsters. This makes it an exhilarating game of cat and mouse were your team must stick together or be cornered and picked of by the reaper.

The new atmosphere created by the wall gives you the feeling of being in a dungeon as does you limited sight range which we found rather creepy especially in chapter 2 where we were literally shaking.

We think the second chapter may need nerfing how ever we will need to play several more times just to be sure.A great update we have some other suggestions but we would like to leave it for later as not to over whelm you with lots of comments.

 

[Isobar]

I would warn you about trying to force players into playing the way you think they should instead of the way they want to. If someone doesn't want to camp one spot, they don't have to, but now you're forcing those who enjoy setting up a home base to always be on the move, which isn't exactly the ideal scenario in a survival situation. Taking away the ability to shoot through walls is a big step to making camping harder, as before you could just sit in a corner of one of the long winding hallways with the hunter and just steam roll all the small enemies. You fixed that issue with the line of site, I wouldn't go adding in a reaper monster at that point.

 

[ELECTROLYTE]

The game looks and sounds fun from the comments I read but I can't seem to download the game from here. It just starts and then freezes not even 1/5 of the download.

 

[Silverfox]

Just finished playing with my brother and to sum it up... It was awesome! We made it to the 15th wave where we got stuck and finished there so we never fought the final boss. There were no bugs, except one. When we fought Mordred and Barney we wiped the first time and had to beat the wave before them. Then during the preparation time Reaper of Souls spawned and kept attacking us which almost ruined our preparations, but we managed to defeat the bosses. After we defeated Barney (Mordred was still alive) message appeared saying we defeated both Barney and Mordred. This however didn't ruin our gameplay and the bug isn't very "serious".
The map is great and is really fun, can't wait to try out the other Heroes and perhaps beat the final boss.
Oh, and I have only 1 question. Where did you find the Maggot model (or skin)? Looks like it's taken from Morrowind.

 

[MoCo]

I would warn you about trying to force players into playing the way you think they should instead of the way they want to.

I think this is less forcing players to do something but more of a decision in terms of game design. And it's a decision taken for good reasons. Of course, camping can be very effective if in the right spot. But if a mechanism is effective, players will use it. Competitive players won't run around just because they have fun to, but find the best way to beat the map. And ff the best way is camping in the sweet spot, the strategy will always be the same, on each take of the map. Unfortunately, this also makes the game boring and does not really help to increase replayability value. So, this is just not the tactical depth and complexity I had in mind. Taken the new chapter II mechanism, I have to say I'm really happy with it. It adds some tension and it's gonna be a different experience each time you play. Still, you can camp in Chapter I and probably in chapter III too.

Silverfox, thanks for your feedback. I'll adress the bugs you've mentioned. Concerning the maggot model, I'm not quite sure, which resource site I had it taken from. Could be Hive, WC3Campagins, or some russian WC3 site. It may be possible, that this russian site contained some ripoff models so I'll check this.

 

[edo494]

I think this is less forcing players to do something but just a decision in terms of game design. And it's a decision taken for good reasons. Of course, camping can be very effective if in the right spot. But if a mechanism is effective, players will use it. Competitive players won't run around just because they have fun to, but find the best way to beat the map. If this way is camping in the best spot, the strategy will always be the same, on each take of the map. This also will make the game absolutely boring, as I'm aiming for maximum replayability value. So, this is just not the tactical depth and complexity I had in mind. Taken the new chapter II mechanism, I have to say I'm really happy with the it. It may be a bit hard right now, but it adds tension and will be a different experience each time you play. And it's also a real difference to chapter I. I also think, most other people like the change. Still, you can camp in Chapter I and probably in chapter III too.

Silverfox, thanks for your feedback. I'll adress the bugs you've mentioned. Concerning the maggot model, I'm not quite sure, which resource site I had it taken from. Could be Hive, WC3Campagins, or some russian WC3 site. It may be possible, that this russian site contained some ripoff models so I'll check this.

chapter 3 is hard to camp tho, because of those guys with AoE abilities, they will wreck whatever is behind the tank

I wonder if you increased Aqcuration(dont know if thats exactly how its spelled lol ) range of the Leader