Do my very basic rock/shoreline doodads look alright?

[w3shipy]

I'm making a simple map, nothing special. This is not meant to be a fancy custom terrain, its very basic stuff (I'm kinda newbie at this)

I'm not using custom models (except the only custom texture is the waterfall) everything else is just the basic default doodads

Just wondering if this looks good/bad?? Am I using too many doodads in a small area? should I spread things out more?

I wanted to fill in the cracks between the rocks and shoreline with weeds, shrubs, bushes, etc, but now I think I went too far and over did it

what can I do to keep things more natural looking?? thanks

#2

I plan on continuing to add more weeds, shrubs, bushes, all along the water (in bottom pic) but want to make sure what I'm doing looks decent before continuing... I really want to make this area around the dock look more interesting somehow, but not sure what to do aside from erasing some of the rocks and making a sandy beach area around the dock lol (its mostly just for visual purposes, just to look nice but without using custom models)

 

[Footman16]

I think it looks good, sometimes it's not about placing too many but making sure they are in the right places which they are. I also like the variation in the rocks to show rocks that are more mossy or worn than others

 

[ColourWolfe]

Hey, those like nice!
However, there is only so much you can do with default resources. I heartily, very strongly recommend you to look into Talavaj's models, those are a game changer. I'll put the link at the end of the post.

I used to be (still am) a very casual map maker, only doing it for fun and to have something to play with friends. My terraining skills were dreadful. But once I found this goldmine of resources, everything just clicked together! I can now make literal art just with using common sense and good placement of different models. Start off with, say, rocks, then add some trees, then slowly build up your world, one doodad at the time. Practice makes perfect!

Try these out:

HybrisFactory - Terraining and Mapping Resources

___________________________________________________________________ Features Modular Kingdom ______________________________________________________________ Modular Kingdom ______________________________________________________________ Modular Shire...

www.hiveworkshop.com

"Am I using too many doodads in a small area? should I spread things out more?"
You're doing it the right way. Take a look at any valley or forest pictures on the internet. They are filled with plants. It is very hard to go overboard with plants as long as you use common sense

"I wanted to fill in the cracks between the rocks and shoreline with weeds, shrubs, bushes, etc, but now I think I went too far and over did it"
I'd just reduce the amount of cattail a little. Problem with having only one variation of it is that it becomes to repetitive. Add some lily flowers. Some colorful plants. Breathe some more life into it.

"what can I do to keep things more natural looking?? thanks"
Color, size and depth are three things you can use to make things look more "natural".
If you play with colors of shrubs, you can tone them down so they don't pop as much, while still having the texture and "feel" of a place not often used or visited by animals/humans.
Same goes for rocks. If you play with their height placement (raise some up, stack them on top of each other), you'll get the feeling of depth, which differentiates 2D from 3D sights.
Rocks in Warcraft 3 have the issue of having ugly 2D pebbles at their bottom - this is where custom rocks kick in to help you out.
Last, but not least, changing maximum size of things like shrubs allows you to place less of them, while covering more effective area.


Anyways, man, I really like it! Keep it up! Here's some of my stuff from current project to show you what can be done with custom rocks and some custom plantlife (Note: these are classic graphics)

 

[w3shipy]

I've seen HybrisFactory before, but it seems a little too much for what I'm doing. Like I said, I want to keep things simple in regards to not using too many custom models. I have some custom stuff like the "white" waterfall (which I got from the "ultimate terrain map" thats got tons of extra doodads), but...

HybrisFactory specifically says: "I reserve the right to deny usage of my assets to anybody, with or without a reason." so I don't really like that, I think it's a little stupid anyway (his work is 10 years old). The new EULA for Reforged says Blizzard own all customs maps either way, so I don't understand why anybody would go through the trouble of making custom models for an old game like this, release them online for free and still expect ownership over them zzz (obviously my map is not for profit, but I still actually prefer just using the default doodads anyway since I am not capable of making my own custom models)

Those mossy rocks seem perfect, but not sure if I could get them to blend in with what I currently have (unless I start all over). Also, they say there made for HD graphics (even if they work in SD). I'm worried about performance since I'm already using a ton of doodads, so that's another reason I don't want too many custom models. The map I am making is specifically for melee (2v2) and melee players can be very nitpicky about things like doodads and custom models sooo, I think sticking to only default stuff is kind of important (and I want my map to work in both SD + HD)

Heres a new update on my work... btw my waterfalls look a lot different in-game compared to WE

I don't consider this 100% complete, I want to do more specifically with the waterfalls (I need a good mist effect). I'm going to add more rocks in/under the water (like around edges or between height variations) I think I covered most of the floating chunks or pebbles (like right in the middle) but I'm currently working on the other set of waterfalls now (on left side where dock is located)

Btw I have the water and land at different height levels (its hard to tell unless I zoom in), theres 3 or 4 types of cattails (they have shrubs attached to them which I think adds more green too), I added some flowers higher up towards the top on land (not on rocks near water), and I have changed size of many doodads (rocks are 2-3x default size, shrubs 1.5), lastly anytime I try messing with the colors it never seems to do anything except maybe make the doodad darker?

it's a big map so I don't want to show off the unfinished areas too much until they are more complete
I'll post more pics after I make more progress, in a week or so... thanks!

 

[ColourWolfe]

Everybody on this site can deny you the rights to use their stuff. I don't like the buffoonery of it either, but that's the way things are. It's called creative rights, however, I've never seen it enforced. It's like telling people "I may delete my map at any point and you can go fuck yourself".

Anyways, looking good! Standard wc3 models are limiting, but you can make stuff happen with them. I'd work a little more on waterfalls, but I like where this is going.

For some mist, here's a few excellent models. When making custom doodads for them, I recommend using size variations between 1.00 and 3.00, and absolutely tick the "Use click helper" cuz they're a bitch to move around without one once placed.

 

[w3shipy]

Cool, thanks for the water and fog! Definitely need that

I'd work a little more on waterfalls

I know my waterfalls are janky but, I'm not sure what else to do to them at this point. I've still got a whole other side with the other river and another set of waterfalls to finish up, and I'm thinking the section I just posted pics of is getting pretty close to finished at this point (fog and mist is basically the final touch lol)

The white waterfalls are the one thing that stands out as kinda ugly to me, but I wanted a difference in variation from the standard waterfall, so I'm using the white ones where it's supposed to be a bigger drop off. I mean, I'm certainly going to do a little more with the rocks too, but probably not a whole lot more to do in that area I showed (above)

 

[FeelMyRash]

As someone who isn't really that good at decoration and doesn't often use custom plants and environmental stuff, I'd say this looks good.

I've seen maps that overdue the decorations by placing too many things in an area, and this doesn't strike me as one of them.

I like the bridge especially. Definetly better than something I could do since I'm pretty bad with bridges

 

[Jiok]

Hey, those like nice!
However, there is only so much you can do with default resources. I heartily, very strongly recommend you to look into Talavaj's models, those are a game changer. I'll put the link at the end of the post.

I used to be (still am) a very casual map maker, only doing it for fun and to have something to play with friends. My terraining skills were dreadful. But once I found this goldmine of resources, everything just clicked together! I can now make literal art just with using common sense and good placement of different models. Start off with, say, rocks, then add some trees, then slowly build up your world, one doodad at the time. Practice makes perfect!

Try these out:

HybrisFactory - Terraining and Mapping Resources

___________________________________________________________________ Features Modular Kingdom ______________________________________________________________ Modular Kingdom ______________________________________________________________ Modular Shire...

www.hiveworkshop.com

"Am I using too many doodads in a small area? should I spread things out more?"
You're doing it the right way. Take a look at any valley or forest pictures on the internet. They are filled with plants. It is very hard to go overboard with plants as long as you use common sense

"I wanted to fill in the cracks between the rocks and shoreline with weeds, shrubs, bushes, etc, but now I think I went too far and over did it"
I'd just reduce the amount of cattail a little. Problem with having only one variation of it is that it becomes to repetitive. Add some lily flowers. Some colorful plants. Breathe some more life into it.

"what can I do to keep things more natural looking?? thanks"
Color, size and depth are three things you can use to make things look more "natural".
If you play with colors of shrubs, you can tone them down so they don't pop as much, while still having the texture and "feel" of a place not often used or visited by animals/humans.
Same goes for rocks. If you play with their height placement (raise some up, stack them on top of each other), you'll get the feeling of depth, which differentiates 2D from 3D sights.
Rocks in Warcraft 3 have the issue of having ugly 2D pebbles at their bottom - this is where custom rocks kick in to help you out.
Last, but not least, changing maximum size of things like shrubs allows you to place less of them, while covering more effective area.


Anyways, man, I really like it! Keep it up! Here's some of my stuff from current project to show you what can be done with custom rocks and some custom plantlife (Note: these are classic graphics)

Why is your water so clear? Is it a model?

 

[Nyctaeus]

Try to scatter your bushes and rocks more, with varied distance between individual elements of the same type, both small clusters and lone objects etc. This is already a very good result that can be only further improved by implementing more quasi-randomness. Don't be afraid to leave larger empty patches to ease whole composition. On the same principle, larger dense clusters of stuff are also good from time to time and also contributes to randomness.

 

[ColourWolfe]

Why is your water so clear? Is it a model?

It's a Water Plane. Custom model of a flat cube with animated model, it's suuuuuper HQ. I don't touch default water since I found out about it.
Lemme try to find it for ya

edit : credits do not disappoint and point me to Ultimate Terraining Map - lots of water planes and waterfalls/river flows there, I took white colored one