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Discussion of a solo playing

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Level 1
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Hi 2 all! First of all sory for my English skills, I'am from Ukraine :)

In That topic I would like to talk about plaing Gaias Retaliation ORPG in a single mod.
I played squire (lvl 22) and thief (lvl 22) there is a problem with killing bosses in first dungeon and second? and Sanev and Golem

My Friend played klerick (24 or 25 lvl) he killed all bosses except bosses in second dungeon

I think that making this map more playable in single mod would make it more popular!

I read the creator of this map wrote that he made it for 3 players, so maybe there is a sense of making auras influencing on mobs strengh.

If 3 players then mobs strengh = 1
If 4 players then mobs strengh = 1.25
If 5 players then mobs strengh = 1.75
If 2 players then mobs strengh = 0.90
If 3 players then mobs strengh = 0.85

:grin:
 
Balance is more than just adjusting hitpoints. :con:

And the dungeons are not meant for solo play. If a cleric can solo them, then this is fortunate for him, but not intended.
The whole outer world is playable solo and lots of people were unhappy about that - still we made that change.
However, we will not make dungeons solo-able, as it would destroy all the fun.
 
Level 1
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Balance is more than just adjusting hitpoints

I understand that balance is not only HP :)

However, we will not make dungeons solo-able, as it would destroy all the fun.

I think it would be hard and interesting to kill monsters if their strenght will depends of quantity of players.

PS: my friend completed all bosses except magician in first dungeon
psps: I understand that it is your map so i just saying my opinion about solo playing

Best Regards
 
Level 1
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All classes can solo d1 bosses w/o gaelas, except cleric - he can kill gaelas solo^^


I mean all bosses including protector, sanev, golem,ancient)

you wrote that all clases can solo d1 bosses, i played by thief.

lvl 22
the ritualist blade
bandit armor
bandit bandana
assasins blade
Black Leather Gloves

I've tried to kill bosses but there is no chances
plz say how you kill them;)

thanks

ps: sorry for my english:sad:
 
Level 1
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h1, i'm Shadow_aod's friend.

All classes can solo d1 bosses w/o gaelas, except cleric - he can kill gaelas solo^^
To be honest being a lvl nearly 25 cleric can solo Gaelas only having the last crafted robe (i do not remember how's it called, but it gives fire resist). And it's all because Gaela's cd on frost chain\huge fire nuke(don't remember the name) is less, then cleric's shield. (i guess it's 15 secs, and shield's 30 secs). w\o robe I can fight him for first 45 seconds (3 nukes), third nuke kills w\o chances (or i didn't try it in a different way, maybe there's a way). And as far as i haven't got searing blood yet - gaelas is the only who stayed alive atm.
To tell you the truth there are tricks to kill almost all bosses. Not bugs i guess, but tricks. From giant wolf and giant crab to protector and the ancient one. Here's how you can kill protector for example:
photo13443739_156002257
Using tose two monsters you can manage protector not being able to hit you.
And still i haven't found a way to kill groups of monsters with 21 lvl makukras (i'm sorry if i'm wrong in the name).
I can make a post how to solo with cleric and which tricks you can use.

Zwieb, yer right, but not totally. Dungeon's will be soloable exept for the last one (as far as i guess). It's caves of tranquility atm. Because you will always have an opportunity to farm trash mobs in the next location - get lvls, new items, spells etc which would make the previous dungeon soloable. But that's not the point. The point is that you say that this game is made for multiplayer game, but playing it with several heroes makes it too easy. Solo is really hard. Which makes it interesting. Ok, playing two players is interesting, but completable in like 3-4 hours. I do not see any reason to play it with like 5 players. Or 8. You can simply autoattack and comlete it. Nor any brain work neither skill. Gaias not too hard, it's too easy (not comparing to other orpg, but concerning the skill of pro players. And as gaias has pretensions to be the best orpg ever, i guess you should think about that). That's my opinion.
And here's my proposition: you can make changes for that both the newbies and skilled players would be able to play. It's realisable in the same way as in other games - difficulty leveling. You can make like 3-5 difficulty levels. (The existing one is the easiest for example). In the beginning of the game host will have an opportunity to choose level. On harder levels the quality and the quantity of monsters will b changed. The hardest will be possible to manage only in team of 5-7 pro players of high level for example. I guess it would be interesting to make packs of 5-8-12 monsters on hardest levels. So that to kill them the team of heroes would probably loose 1-3 heroes. For example. That would make the map much more interesting. I understand that rebalancing is a huge, labour-intensive, time-absorbent process. But it can make the game last more then atm. There will be kinda pro players games, which would b interesting to other people (like spectators). And it would take less time, then modeling of new territories, i think. You can make a voluntary team of pro testers. For example Lotyc will be glad to join it i guess. That will make rebalancing much easier process for you, but will make people play your map more. I do not know how to realise it technically, but i think there are ways. b4 declining my proposition think about it a bit.
p.s. ty 4 nice orpg. It's really good.
 
Level 1
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h1, i'm Shadow_aod's friend.

All classes can solo d1 bosses w/o gaelas, except cleric - he can kill gaelas solo^^
To be honest being a lvl nearly 25 cleric can solo Gaelas only having the last crafted robe (i do not remember how's it called, but it gives fire resist). And it's all because Gaela's cd on frost chain\huge fire nuke(don't remember the name) is less, then cleric's shield. (i guess it's 15 secs, and shield's 30 secs). w\o robe I can fight him for first 45 seconds (3 nukes), third nuke kills w\o chances (or i didn't try it in a different way, maybe there's a way). And as far as i haven't got searing blood yet - gaelas is the only who stayed alive atm.
To tell you the truth there are tricks to kill almost all bosses. Not bugs i guess, but tricks. From giant wolf and giant crab to protector and the ancient one. Here's how you can kill protector for example:
photo13443739_156002257
Using tose two monsters you can manage protector not being able to hit you.
And still i haven't found a way to kill groups of monsters with 21 lvl makukras (i'm sorry if i'm wrong in the name).
I can make a post how to solo with cleric and which tricks you can use.
Zwieb, yer right, but not totally. Dungeon's will be soloable exept for the last one (as far as i guess). It's caves of tranquility atm. Because you will always have an opportunity to farm trash mobs in the next location - get lvls, new items, spells etc which would make the previous dungeon soloable. But that's not the point. The point is that you say that this game is made for multiplayer game, but playing it with several heroes makes it too easy. Solo is really hard. Which makes it interesting. Ok, playing two players is interesting, but completable in like 3-4 hours. I do not see any reason to play it with like 5 players. Or 8. You can simply autoattack and comlete it. Nor any brain work neither skill. Gaias not too hard, it's too easy (not comparing to other orpg, but concerning the skill of pro players. And as gaias has pretensions to be the best orpg ever, i guess you should think about that). That's my opinion.
And here's my proposition: you can make changes for that both the newbies and skilled players would be able to play. It's realisable in the same way as in other games - difficulty leveling. You can make like 3-5 difficulty levels. (The existing one is the easiest for example). In the beginning of the game host will have an opportunity to choose level. On harder levels the quality and the quantity of monsters will b changed. The hardest will be possible to manage only in team of 5-7 pro players of high level for example. I guess it would be interesting to make packs of 5-8-12 monsters on hardest levels. So that to kill them the team of heroes would probably loose 1-3 heroes. For example. That would make the map much more interesting. I understand that rebalancing is a huge, labour-intensive, time-absorbent process. But it can make the game last more then atm. There will be kinda pro players games, which would b interesting to other people (like spectators). And it would take less time, then modeling of new territories, i think. You can make a voluntary team of pro testers. For example Lotyc will be glad to join it i guess. That will make rebalancing much easier process for you, but will make people play your map more. I do not know how to realise it technically, but i think there are ways. b4 declining my proposition think about it a bit.
p.s. ty 4 nice orpg. It's really good.
 
Level 10
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I've tried to kill bosses but there is no chances
plz say how you kill them;)

Well as one of the map makers and other people have stated previously, the dungeons in this map are not intended for solo play. Your best bet in beating the bosses is finding a party. You are a thief and they aren't really intended for taking a lot of damage. Your friend who soloed all of the bosses was probably a squire or cleric. The Squire could just buy a lot of healing potions and probably last his ground, and a cleric could just dps and heal at the same time. I'd also imagine your friend is a lot higher than level 22.
 
You definitely have to add a balance system. It isn't hard, there are GUI triggers to set the handicap based on the number of players. Please, it would be so simple but also help alot. You can just leave the dungeons as it is, but for the creeps, I mean I get a Squire with HP170 Level 11 against 2 Gnolls level 11 and 12 with 270 HP! Yes, I still can kill them easily, but please make it balanced based on player quantity.
 
I mean make them weaker. Nearly all creep camps have in total HP triple the amount of a hero with the same level. Adjusting Hp isn't everything, but it is about 75% of it. Unless a unit has 10 Hp but 100000 attack and abilities that instantly kill in a massive area, then HP does matter significantly. What you should do is lower the HP but increase the creeps' attack damage. That way, combat is more quick-paced with spiders with 30HP and 16-20 attack but also the same amount of risk in defeat as having spiders with 100HP but 3-4 attack. These are just suggestions, though you definitely must put in some more balancing.

PS. I forgot to mention I had 2 potions with me when versing the gnolls.
 
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Stop trolling around GhostThruster, the game is easy enough as it is... But with one thing you are right, increase the damage dealt by creeps again ^^

Zwiebelchen, do you think you could make 2 maps? A normal difficult and a hardcore difficult? I mean the savecodes should be compatible and when the map is finally 100% done, it would not be too much work to balance a second or am I wrong? I know that this would mean alot of work, but would adress first time players and hardcore fans as well...
 
Hmmm ... I don't think that is a good idea, as it would require also adjusting the loottables to compensate for the difference in difficulty.

Well ... I think hardcore players will still have fun with Gaias in the future. Currently, the content is balanced around casual, but the new dungeon of the upcoming content upgrade is going to be balanced for hardcore players and will also not only involve items and level in order to beat it, but also skill, as the bosses require movement, adapting strategies, figuring out what is the trick, etc..
 
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I think hardcore players will still have fun with Gaias in the future. Currently, the content is balanced around casual, but the new dungeon of the upcoming content upgrade is going to be balanced for hardcore players and will also not only involve items and level in order to beat it, but also skill, as the bosses require movement, adapting strategies, figuring out what is the trick, etc..

I think I just fell in love with you Zwiebelchen, as much as a straight man can at least. The Gaias team never fails to amaze me :p
 
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This is not a solo game. I can't beat a level 5 with a level 12? What the hell! This is not a solo game because you need at least 3 people to defeat a low level hostile. Oh, and by the way you might consider lowering the cooldown on the health potions because I can't wait five minutes inbetween each use.

Love the map though, just frustrated with the solo play.
 
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This is not a solo game. I can't beat a level 5 with a level 12? What the hell! This is not a solo game because you need at least 3 people to defeat a low level hostile. Oh, and by the way you might consider lowering the cooldown on the health potions because I can't wait five minutes inbetween each use.

Love the map though, just frustrated with the solo play.

Is the level 5 you are talking about the giant wolf near Riversdale? If so than that is a boss, and bosses are always much harder than their level states. And you're right it ISN'T a solo map. I happen to think the cooldown on potions is fine. They shouldn't be the main source of your heals. They are just there in case the healers can't get a heal off on you in time.
 
Stop trolling around GhostThruster, the game is easy enough as it is... But with one thing you are right, increase the damage dealt by creeps again ^^

I wasn't trolling, I'm making a point. The map is great, I understand, and it is SUPPOSED to be multi-player, but if you can make it solo as well, it will be more versatile, and there is no disadvantage to it. There are no cons to making the map difficulty suit the player amount, but there are many pros.
 
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No there is a BIG disadvantage. If there is a possibility to play solo, nobody will play in partys anymore. I've seen the effect of more soloability at the last update. Before the update Gaias Ret. maps where rare. After the update there where none. Really none. So I was forced to host myself. And only lvl1 firsttime players joined. Thats fine at the beginning but when the time comes and you are lvl20 and want to do D2, there is no one to play with you. It was really hard to build up new players to lvl20+ which where motivated to do D2.
If the game would become 100% soloable, nobody would play in partys anymore. Yeah well and that would suck...
 
No there is a BIG disadvantage. If there is a possibility to play solo, nobody will play in partys anymore. I've seen the effect of more soloability at the last update. Before the update Gaias Ret. maps where rare. After the update there where none. Really none. So I was forced to host myself. And only lvl1 firsttime players joined. Thats fine at the beginning but when the time comes and you are lvl20 and want to do D2, there is no one to play with you. It was really hard to build up new players to lvl20+ which where motivated to do D2.
If the game would become 100% soloable, nobody would play in partys anymore. Yeah well and that would suck...
Hmm ... Ive never seen it that way. However, I think the lack of hosts on the web is not because of the soloability. I think it is because the content is yet so limited and that RPGs usually have no large general popularity. I mean ... I never see any D3 or TKOK games hosted at the bnet, although they are pretty good and (at least for tkok) have a lot more content.

Most hosted games on the Bnet are hosted by Bots - and those usually host Tower defences or AoS styled maps.

I think you can expect more game hosts when the new version is released. Other than that, check the clans that play rpgs or Gaias in special. Those usually have people that are able to host, if you can not.
 
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@Eich
I think what you said about the negatives of making it soloable is wrong. If its nicer to party then I would always prefer that, but if soloing is more fun (which would be the only reason for people not to party), then it would suck not being able to for no apparent reason. What should be is that solo-players should need to level up more before killing a boss, even with the handicap adjustment.
I'll take Diablo 2 as example. When more players join, all monsters get added strength (and give added exp and loot that of course has to be shared if the players stick together). But still Diablo can be killed around 10 levels earlier if your in 3 players instead of 1 (at least that was my experience).
 
Newsflash. This map is already single-player compatible. All I'm saying is to increase its solo-friendliness. If this map can already be played solo, then why is it still quite popular? And you just strengthened by argument with your own comment. If you don't like soloing, that's good for you. But there are people that prefer to go in parties as well, like yourself, unless you're the only person that likes to play multi, which means my argument has won anyway. Another point you said for my argument was that the dungeons were too hard for 1 person. I agree! I said that this map should be more solo-friendly!

You have to admit more solo-compatibility has more benefits then multi-player orientated.
 
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For this particular map, that is not true. Solo takes away from this game. In fact, making it heavily multi compatible forces people to have to go on battlenet to host games or join games. Whenever I feel like playing this game. I go on every single battlenet server just to see if there's anyone hosting. I've yet to find one game hosted. So I started hosting myself.

Not enough people know about this game. Because they go on single player mode too often. Then they go complain about how they can't get too far in this game because they can't find a host.

Let's look at the success of past great ORPGs. I can only name two really. TKOK and FFF. They're not single player friendly. They're great multi player. They ride on success for quite some time. Honestly, quality is hard to come by. If a game is made for single player when it's suppose to be ORPG. Well, the person who made it probably didn't put enough thoughts into what they want out of a true ORPG.

So solo compatible? What a joke. Please don't. If I wanted solo compatible I'll go stick with platform gaming.
 
There we go again. You have just proven yourself wrong with your comment. If everyone plays solo, then it means EVERYONE MUST LIKE IT SOLO, and this is true because "I've yet to find one game hosted". And you can't force people to go on battle net! But in the end it is the creator's choice, I'm just trying to make a point.

This map is still awesome, though making it more solo-able can make it better.
 
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There we go again. You have just proven yourself wrong with your comment. If everyone plays solo, then it means EVERYONE MUST LIKE IT SOLO, and this is true because "I've yet to find one game hosted". And you can't force people to go on battle net! But in the end it is the creator's choice, I'm just trying to make a point.

This map is still awesome, though making it more solo-able can make it better.

This map was hosted all the time when 04-02-10 first came out. You can't find anyone hosting right now because everyone who plays the map frequently stopped pretty much until new version is released since most of these players have multiple characters level 25+ with the best gear they can obtain and all the skills and have completed all the content in the current version several times through. And who says you need to go on Battle.net to play multi-play? You could always use other programs such as Garena. I've herd numerous people talking about how they play Gaias on Garena.

Ultimately as Zwiebelchen has said:
To make a final point on the Solo play discussion, I'll just add this:

Dungeons are not meant to be soloable and they will never be.
So basicly, all the discussion about making dungeons soloable is pointless from this point on, as this is still our map and we simply do not like the idea.
so further discussion about solo-play is just stupid. If you do not want to log on battle.net or Garena to play with other people that is your loss. I can ensure you however that once the new version is finally released you will see a lot of the dedicated players coming back online and the map will be hosted quite frequently. The Clan Gaia hosting bot at @azeroth will be back online for the release of the new version as well 24/7.
 
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Its a freakin' ORPG, its meant to be played in groups, why you all are QQing about solo... Are you an emo that does not have any friends to play with? .. If it was made to be played by 1 player, it would be an stupid campaign with emo-heroes and emo-items.. now go to b.net and find someone to play with, for f#&k sake.
 
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It's hard to make such a change to the game where people are strong enough to take on monsters that were previously meant for party play. I can see the creator of the map taking time out of his life to make a seperate "solo only" side of the map for people who like to solo, but that probably won't happen.

If this game were to be rebalanced and made so that people playing solo were stronger than before, or monsters were weakened down to a "soloable" state, it might take away from the game as a whole. It's hard to rebalance around a single class and it's set of skills and damage. When put into a party, the classes in that party may be too effective and broken, just facerolling through a dungeon that would otherwise require some effort to beat. Not everyone would feel the same way, but it doesn't sound like much fun to me if a buddy of yours is like, O man watch me solo this boss you guys hang around and do nothing!

Coming back to my main point, yea the game COULD be rebalanced around friendlier solo play, but maybe some things are meant to be big and bad so that it requires some team effort, thus creating a challenge, rather than getting some fat loot and solo-ing it.
 
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Its a freakin' ORPG, its meant to be played in groups, why you all are QQing about solo... Are you an emo that does not have any friends to play with? .. If it was made to be played by 1 player, it would be an stupid campaign with emo-heroes and emo-items.. now go to b.net and find someone to play with, for f#&k sake.

/signed
 
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Its a freakin' ORPG, its meant to be played in groups, why you all are QQing about solo... Are you an emo that does not have any friends to play with? .. If it was made to be played by 1 player, it would be an stupid campaign with emo-heroes and emo-items.. now go to b.net and find someone to play with, for f#&k sake.

although its pretty strong, i agree with you. whats so hard to find two friends to play with you? :hohum:
 
Okay, I give up. SOLOING IS A HORRIBLE ACT AND I HEREBY WILL NEVER SOLO AGAIN NOR WILL I ARGUE FOR SOLO-ABILITY.
Ah, c'mon ... why this reaction now? You can see that a lot of people are against the idea of solo dungeons. If it would be just me, then okay, but it's not like that.

No need to bash this discussion any longer. Thread closed.
 
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