Diablo IV suggestions & comments

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 54
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,748
Yep, I agree. You were right there, likely no Diablo. But it's OK, cause man was that cinematic epic!
Was OK, I guess though when does Shadowlands chronologically happen? If it's right after Battle for Azeroth, then it's a bit of a time gap from Wrath of the Lich King to it.
Also, these angels and their society, too much Diablo vibes... and it feels like they're kind of pushed in the story.
Video can be found here.
 
Level 12
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
775
Was OK, I guess though when does Shadowlands chronologically happen? If it's right after Battle for Azeroth, then it's a bit of a time gap from Wrath of the Lich King to it.
Also, these angels and their society, too much Diablo vibes... and it feels like they're kind of pushed in the story.
Video can be found here.
Yep, the whole expansion Shadowlands is strongly themed after Diablo. There's High Heavens(Bastion), Burning Hells(Maw), Tristram(Revendreth), and Maldraxxus is heavily themed on Diablo Necromancers. I guess it's cause of D4 :/
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 54
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,748
Yep, the whole expansion Shadowlands is strongly themed after Diablo. There's High Heavens(Bastion), Burning Hells(Maw), Tristram(Revendreth), and Maldraxxus is heavily themed on Diablo Necromancers. I guess it's cause of D4 :/
And there's nothing new. The theme is basically the same over and over, especially from Battle for Azeroth. It's just good vs evil or, better pointed, just a sudden and never ending strife that the players have to be part of.
Where do all those Naaru, elder and void gods and whatnot fit in now? It's like Warcraft met Diablo through the HotStorm Nexus. That or like Warcraft started on another planet with known characters like they did with Heroes of Might and Magic from IV to V and onward.
 
Level 18
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,186
Where do all those Naaru, elder and void gods and whatnot fit in now?
As far as I know, all of these are just big cosmic powers that fight each other and we're just stuck in the middle of it all trying to survive, which by itself isn't really such a bad concept, though I agree with you that having to constantly fight big space forces that seek to destroy us for their own gain one after another is rather boring.

I think one or two expansions focused on adventures and smaller-scale lore to break up the pace would do WoW a huge favor.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 54
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,748
I think one or two expansions focused on adventures and smaller-scale lore to break up the pace would go WoW a huge favor.
Yeah, I mean, I get it that the gameplay can't be changed but the story shouldn't always overlap it. Look at the RTS games from the Warcraft universe, the story changed dramatically with RoC and TfT ingame while the previous two games mainly made use of the manual for story engagement.
 
Level 18
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,186
Look at the RTS games from the Warcraft universe, the story changed dramatically with RoC and TfT ingame while the previous two games mainly made use of the manual for story engagement.
To me that was a good thing - I mean, you should be able to learn most of the story by just playing the game, not having to look it up in other media.

I don't understand your point about the "story always overlaping the gameplay". Can you elaborate?
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 54
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,748
To me that was a good thing - I mean, you should be able to learn most of the story by just playing the game, not having to look it up in other media.
That's not what I meant but yeah, they could have introduced that lore within the game like how Dark Reign did it. Basically you read lore parts in some sort of compendium or something besides mission briefings and whatnot.
StarCraft did it better but you have to understand there's so much you can put in a game. The manual lore isn't that necessary to understand what's going on. It serves more as background story, expanded universe.
I guess StarCraft II did it best but there's not that much lore if we'd compare.
I don't understand your point about the "story always overlaping the gameplay". Can you elaborate?
I mean the story being created so that the gameplay mechanics would not need changing. So, if WoW is about levelling up and fighting the other side/factions, the story will always be centered around that which is repetitive and uncreative in the long run.
 
Level 18
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,186
StarCraft did it better but you have to understand there's so much you can put in a game.
That's a fair point. I agree that if you put too much background lore in a game, most of it will likely miss the attention span of your average player or potentially dilute the enjoyment of experiencing the main plot. In other words, yeah, too much story is bad too.

I mean the story being created so that the gameplay mechanics would not need changing.
So basically always having some big world-ending level of villain at the end of the expansion, so that the players can feel good by defeating a powerful bad guy? :)

Yes, again, I totally agree. It gets boring after a bit, especially if you realize that the way they write the story is that you, as a player, always have to win, which makes the whole thing feel a bit like you were sitting in front of this factory line that constantly carried another "big bad" for you to smack.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 54
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,748
Yes, again, I totally agree. It gets boring after a bit, especially if you realize that the way they write the story is that you, as a player, always have to win, which makes the whole thing feel a bit like you were sitting in front of this factory line that constantly carried another "big bad" for you to smack.
Well, kids don't like losing, do they? Hurting people's feelings is a no-no. What kind of society do you want to live in? Take the blue pill.
 
Level 18
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,186
Well, kids don't like losing, do they? Hurting people's feelings is a no-no.
Which is sad... I get it's a game and that the player ultimately has to be able to win, because there would be no point in playing otherwise, but taking some serious and impactful losses on that way to your victory would only make getting to that win feel sweeter.

In a way, that's also my worry in regards to D4's story - that we'll get all these classic bad guys and we'll just cut through them like butter, without really feeling challenged from the narrative point of view.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 54
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,748
Which is sad... I get it's a game and that the player ultimately has to be able to win, because there would be no point in playing otherwise, but taking some serious and impactful losses on that way to your victory would only make getting to that win feel sweeter.
You don't really see this stuff in RPG games. It's NPCs that get killed or whatever, not the player. For instance, in God of War 2, you die and then have to come back again. Spoiler, sorry.
n a way, that's also my worry in regards to D4's story - that we'll get all these classic bad guys and we'll just cut through them like butter, without really feeling challenged from the narrative point of view.
Basically, Diablo III in a nutshell. But yeah, as I mentioned, RPG games... or should I say, games. Well, some games, like movies, have you die at the end but that's still like achieving something until that point so the loss is not really substantial. Anyways, you can't really lose in games because that would make your progress worthless. Imagine if you lose your whole gear at some point xD especially the one you farmed for.
 
Level 12
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
775
When do you think we'll get the 4th class revealed? It's been a year since the game was announced, so it's about time.
 
Level 12
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
775
Yeah as for what it's gonna be, I bet it's gonna be an Archer, and judging by how original they were with the first three, I think it's safe to assume it's gonna be D3 Demon Hunter, it's not gonna be an Amazon(gender locked) and D1 Rogue or D3 Scoundrel are too simple.
 
Level 18
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,186
Yeah as for what it's gonna be, I bet it's gonna be an Archer, and judging by how original they were with the first three, I think it's safe to assume it's gonna be D3 Demon Hunter, it's not gonna be an Amazon(gender locked) and D1 Rogue or D3 Scoundrel are too simple.
I'm going to recommend this video by Rhykker - I think he did a really good job trying to guess what the other two classes are going to be:

 
Level 18
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,186
Love these back and forth interactions they have with the community with these quarterly updates.
It's definetely better than what they did for D3, because it allows players to give feedback on the current iterations of the systems instead of having to wait for beta or some other preview version, where general system design is mostly locked in.

Still, as much as I agree with you that D4 is looking promising, I'm staying in the "wait-and-see" camp, because I still remember how I liked original D3 designs only to later find out that a couple of months they completely flipped the game on its head, heh.
 
Level 16
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
1,576
Still, as much as I agree with you that D4 is looking promising, I'm staying in the "wait-and-see" camp, because I still remember how I liked original D3 designs only to later find out that a couple of months they completely flipped the game on its head, heh.
Oh I agree with you there. D3 on reveal was a far cry from what was released. One thing I do hope they recreate from D3 though is combat feel. Out of the many Diablo clones I've played, D3 has the best combat feel of them all. The animation, effects, sounds, etc., in the game make blasting demons feel satisfying.
 
Level 12
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
775
@deepstrasz no bold on Diablo IV. I was kinda dissapointed of their progress. Apart from a new class, it doesn't seem like they've done a lot with it. Blizzcon 2019, it was a pre early alpha, and that's why the graphics were unfinished and needed lots of work. But now, almost a year and a half later, and well the graphics don't seem to have improved, at all.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 54
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,748
@deepstrasz no bold on Diablo IV. I was kinda dissapointed of their progress. Apart from a new class, it doesn't seem like they've done a lot with it. Blizzcon 2019, it was a pre early alpha, and that's why the graphics were unfinished and needed lots of work. But now, almost a year and a half later, and well the graphics don't seem to have improved, at all.
I am satisfied with the graphics to be honest since I loved Path of Exile. Also, I want them to take their time and release something proper than hurry up to make it disastrous like Diablo III or even Reforged.
I know there will be recurrent evils and whatnot, I can't do anything about it but my main hope is the game will provide a worthy singleplayer experience in what the gameplay, story and music are concerned.
Chris Metzen and co. had some neat ideas with the story for Diablo III but Chris the Man was known to retcon stuff and not necessarily intentionally (read about the Burning Crusade Draenei fiasco) at least a first since StarCraft II and Diablo III proved pretty much otherwise. All I'm asking is consistency and logic. I know, it's a game but why leave the story as a background? There would be no need for it anyway otherwise since games like Heroes of the Storm or DotA or others that are mainly multiplayer don't really need any story to function properly and be successful (like many shooters).

I am really trying to be supportive of this game. I hope I won't regret it. Moreover, I hope there won't be any Marxist or politically correctness influence in it.

Now, some more of my thoughts on the Rogue teaser. While the game is set in a fantastical world, barbarians are also magical people and how that one in the video was so easily killed by the smaller Rogue was awkward especially in the part where that knife was going through the barbarian's upper limb like through butter.

The Rogue lore has been changed a bit but I guess it should be a transition as with Paladin->Crusader. Now, it's more akin to that of the Assassin.

EDIT:


Alright, the Sisterhood of the Sightless Eye are just remnants, the Diablo IV Rogues are something else. That's good, a reboot nonetheless :D

EDIT2:
BlizzConline 2021 Diablo: What's Next Panel Recap
 
Last edited:
Level 12
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
775
I am satisfied with the graphics to be honest since I loved Path of Exile.
It's not about me being unsatisfied. It's about them being unfinished, obviously. And it seems they haven't made any progress since Blizzcon 2019, when it comes to graphics.
Moreover, I hope there won't be any Marxist or politically correctness influence in it.
Well, black Barbarians were confirmed back at Blizzcon 2019, so there's that.
Now, it's more akin to that of the Assassin.
Well they obviously wanted to cover both the archer class(Rogue, Amazon, Demon Hunter) and a melee assassin class(Assassin, Monk), and there you go. Now they've got both of these covered.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 54
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,748
Well, black Barbarians were confirmed back at Blizzcon 2019, so there's that.
Racial diversity is the least of my worries, actually not if properly done as has been in the series but indeed if we see black NPC Barbarians that are supposed to be from Arreat, then yes, that's lame. If it's only about character customization, then I couldn't care less.
 
Level 18
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,186
black NPC Barbarians that are supposed to be from Arreat, then yes, that's lame
Didn't the Arreat Barbarians almost go extinct after the Worldstone was destroyed? Besides, I doubt they're going to dive into your character's backstory and since we're getting some customization options, you should be able to roleplay as a classic Barbarian if that's what you want.

It's about them being unfinished, obviously.
I think you need to look again. For instance, the Scosglen tileset has more foliage and uses more vibrant grass colors. Also, I'm not sure what it is, but monsters seem to stand out a bit more. In fact, again, I'm not sure why, but while I was not sold on the 2019 demo graphics, this time I really enjoyed it.

Perhaps what you're interpreting as "not finished" is just the style that they are going with? I mean, there's going to be some polish as the game gets closer to released, but looking at the trailers, I really don't see the "obviously unfinished" part you speak of.

my main hope is the game will provide a worthy singleplayer experience in what the gameplay, story and music are concerned
If their trailers are anything to go by, I'd say the writing is looking miles better than D3 already.

And honestly, I don't expect much from the story - as long as it's coherent, includes some nice twists and most importantly doesn't have goofy things like the talking Azmodan head, Diablo not shutting up or Belial being the worst liar ever, I'm good.
 
Last edited:
Level 12
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
775
@deepstrasz apparently D2R is filled with political correctness:
tg32h4pihki61.png
Sorceress is Middle Eastern, Paladin is Black, Assassin is Yellow and Amazon is transgender.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 54
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,748
Sorceress is Middle Eastern, Paladin is Black, Assassin is Yellow and Amazon is transgender.
That's how it was before. I don't get it...
¸®´ÏÁö µð¾Æºí·Î ±×¸² ½Ã¸®Áî 1
And no, I wouldn't say the Amazon is transgender but more of a masculine female compared to how she looked in the original.

Would be mighty nifty to have customization like in Diablo IV or something. Maybe I'd like my Amazons to be pretty faced or something.
 
Level 23
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
2,286
That's how it was before. I don't get it...
¸®´ÏÁö µð¾Æºí·Î ±×¸² ½Ã¸®Áî 1
And no, I wouldn't say the Amazon is transgender but more of a masculine female compared to how she looked in the original.

Would be mighty nifty to have customization like in Diablo IV or something. Maybe I'd like my Amazons to be pretty faced or something.
Damn i friggin love some Samwise illustrations :'c
 
Level 26
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,974
I'm pretty happy with the art direction in both d4 and d2r, I can't really envision what Diablo 4 could look like other than what it looks like now. Diablo 2R looks even better in my opinion, aside from some robotic animations in the trailer, but hopefully those can be sorted out. It looks like d2r is going to get a lot more care and love than wc3r, so that's good news for diablo fans. At least Reforged isn't forgotten in that aspect (it's a constant reminder on what not to do).

Also, D4 looks to be more gruesome and dark like the original games. You can see in the new trailer the Rogue dashes through a demon and disembowels it, sending organs flying. I'm surprised Blizzard is behind a game with that much violence, I felt like we were destined to get those Hearthstone style graphics for the rest of time.

Speaking on the FORCED diversity that you get nowadays, it feels like with these things there was a meeting beforehand where someone who doesn't even play video games insisted that there needs to be 1 character of every race otherwise the game is racist or blah blah blah... This bothers me because it all feels so artificial and forced. But whatever, that's the way it's going to be from here on out which is not that big of a deal as long as the games are good. It just feels fake and unnecessary, that's all. The thing is, I don't think this complaint really applies here because Diablo 2 had a diverse cast of characters begin with.

And yeah, that's a frighteningly butch Amazon, but I don't really care that my character doesn't have a pretty face, most of the time it'll be covered up anyway. I also think it's the lighting in that fireplace scene that's doing our girl harm, if you look at her face in-game from the isometric view, she looks normal.

All of that stuff aside, what's really exciting to me is that they confirmed some form of mod support for d2r. Mods like Project Diablo 2, combined with the remaster, could be an extremely fresh and fun experience. Fingers crossed that it all works out for both d2r and d4. Blizzard really let me down with D3 and Reforged, and I've lost a lot of faith in them, but I'm still always hopeful for the future.
 
Last edited:
Level 18
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,186
More news - from this interview (in Polish, but I'll summarize the important points):
Ile czasu zajmie ukończenie Diablo 4? Co znajdziemy w strefach PvP? Oto co powiedzieli nam twórcy

1. Open world:
- Is really huge; they actually had to make it a bit smaller, because it felt too big
- Generally they prefer to focus on cool content than raw map size
- You can go from the top of the map to the bottom with no loading screens

2. Story campaign:
- Completing the story campaign should take between 20 and 40 hours
- The story is linear, so there won't be any choices that impact how it plays out
- That said, you can choose the order in which you want to do quests and when to interact with the story
- After completing the story, you're free to explore the world and for instance do any side quests that you missed or skipped
- The story campaign is meant to be fairly easy and simple, the real challenge and complexity await at the endgame
- PvP zones aren't a part of the main story and the campaign is not going to send you there

3. Other:
- Adventure mode is not going to make a return in Diablo 4, because the open world is built to serve the same purpose
- You're going to have stables for your mounts; they don't want to have any high fantasy creatures as mounts because it doesn't fit Diablo
- You can collect player ears in PvP, but they're just trophies and you don't buy anything with them
- Treasure Goblins from Diablo 3 are coming back, but with some yet unannounced changes
- You can unlock and swap between all Rogue specializations
 
Last edited:
Level 18
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,186
I'm going to post this here, because I don't think there'd be much discussion about this in its own thread:


If waiting for Diablo 4 is hard for you and you'd like to catch up on how Immortal is looking, the video above is a very detailed showcase. The summary is that the core gameplay is really good, especially in terms of endgame activities which are miles better in Immortal than they were in Diablo 3. That said, customization systems appear to be rather shallow, though there are a couple of them, so you will have something to tweak.

As for monetization - it doesn't seem particularly predatory, but it's still a mobile game, so obviously there's some "pay to progress faster" stuff, like buying currency that lets you buy things you need to upgrade your items. Regardless, it appears you can play perfectly fine without it.

My impression overall - I'd say that Immortal can actually turn out to be a decent game for those who already play on mobile, at least from time to time, however I don't think that it's going to appealing to PC players. Like, for me this video is the last bit of interest I'm showing Immortal - it's just not for me, but I'm leaving it here in case "anyone has a phone" and is curious about how the game is shaping up :)

---

Also if anyone here is looking for a decent and fun aRPG to play on PC while waiting for D4 or PoE2, I'd recommend checking out Last Epoch :)

P.S. Oh, and we'll probably get a new D4 blog post this month, so - hype! :D
 

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 58
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
26,540
That said, customization systems appear to be rather shallow, though there are a couple of them, so you will have something to tweak.
Personally a lot of Diablo II and Diablo III customization was fake. Although it was fun trying out various builds, at the end of the day there were only a few viable builds that everyone used.
 
Level 12
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
775
I'm going to post this here, because I don't think there'd be much discussion about this in its own thread:


If waiting for Diablo 4 is hard for you and you'd like to catch up on how Immortal is looking, the video above is a very detailed showcase. The summary is that the core gameplay is really good, especially in terms of endgame activities which are miles better in Immortal than they were in Diablo 3. That said, customization systems appear to be rather shallow, though there are a couple of them, so you will have something to tweak.

As for monetization - it doesn't seem particularly predatory, but it's still a mobile game, so obviously there's some "pay to progress faster" stuff, like buying currency that lets you buy things you need to upgrade your items. Regardless, it appears you can play perfectly fine without it.

My impression overall - I'd say that Immortal can actually turn out to be a decent game for those who already play on mobile, at least from time to time, however I don't think that it's going to appealing to PC players. Like, for me this video is the last bit of interest I'm showing Immortal - it's just not for me, but I'm leaving it here in case "anyone has a phone" and is curious about how the game is shaping up :)

---

Also if anyone here is looking for a decent and fun aRPG to play on PC while waiting for D4 or PoE2, I'd recommend checking out Last Epoch :)

P.S. Oh, and we'll probably get a new D4 blog post this month, so - hype! :D
I'll likely give it a try when and if I get a new phone. As a Wizard though, DH is lame (in Diablo) !
 
Level 18
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,186
Geez, guys, it's a Diablo IV thread. Don't stain it with that filth.
I think it's actually worth looking at Immortal in the context of Diablo 4, because some of its systems could (and are pretty likely to) be expanded and added into Diablo 4. For example, if I remember right, they confirmed that D4 will have some sort of paragon system - the more vertical approach (bunch of smaller, finite trees unlocked over time) like the one in Immortal might be what they end up going for.

Will they add amazon class in Diablo IV?
Considering that the Rogue already fills the ranged class archetype, I'd say "no" for release - if they add Amazon, it's most likely going to be an expansion or DLC class. As for the final launch class, it's probably going to be either some shield using class (e.g. Paladin, Crusader) or a summoner (e.g. Necromancer).
 
Level 18
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,186
I've seen it and while the art looks gorgeous, there's something else that caught my attention - they've mentioned us playing the game a couple of times. It might be nothing, but given how much power the PR department seems to have at Blizzard these days, I don't think it's a coincidence.

I'm going to make a bold prediction - we'll get a beta announcement at the next Blizzconline event.
 
Top