[Cinematic] Cinematic review?

[Rui]

Hello.

You might have noticed my "Tips for a good Map Review" thread. If not, you will find that it contains hints on what to consider when reviewing a map.
However, I find that my general-review sheet does not work well for cinematics, so I would like you fellow cinematographers to help me create a sheet that covers all points of a cinematic.

~Thank you for your time

EDIT: I've been gathering stuff...

• (Important) Hive Workshop Requirements: The map needs a valid name (an invalid name would be "Just Another Warcraft III Map"), an author name (unless the author states in the description that he wishes to stay anonymous), a description that covers the bases of the cinematic and gives a brief overview of the story (not necessarily revealing in-game details) and categorization.
• (Not [Very] Important) Bugs & Otherwise Good: Buggy cinematics are not common, but if you can find any bug, mention it in the final note. This point has yet another purpose: could certain things have resulted better otherwise? If yes, this is the item to mention them on.
• (Important) Camera: The camera movement is important. A good cinematographer should make a good movement of cameras and a decent choice of angles.
• (Important) Music/Sound: What should be evaluated here is the way the sound and music are used. You should never comment the genre or quality of the soundtrack in question. The question here is if the soundtrack fits for the scenes they are used on.
• (Not [Very] Important) Special Effects: It is pleasing to see a movie where you have not a lot of special effects, but a good use of them. Obviously, that also counts in the Warcraft III cinema.
• (Important) Screenplay: The script for the cinematic is important. Bad grammar or low quality texts are obviously not agreeable.
• (Very Important) Story & Originality: It is very usual, or let's say, too frequent to see Undead attacking Humans. A peaceful human kingdom gets attacked by Undead warriors... well, this is seen far too often to be considered original.
  Originality on the story is a thing that should be taken into consideration. Repeated things get boring.
  There is, however, another thing that you should note: are the characters acting realistically? If they are grown ups, and are leaders of kingdoms, they shouldn't act like children.
• (Very Important) Terrain: Another important part of the cinematic is the terrain. Elevation, ground texture variation, the environment (sky, weather, fog), destructible & doodad placement, they all count for the beautification of a terrain. Keep notes of those when you reply to the map.
• (Not [Very] Important) Imported Material: Was the imported material really needed, or was it imported just to say the cinematic has a lot of goodies? This includes 2D Textures, 3D Models, Music, along with minimap and loading screen images.

EDIT: Done. I've set up 3 "priorities" let's say.

• (Not [Very] Important): Means that the item is not a very important matter in the cinematic. It should still count, however.
• (Important): Means that the item has an average level of significance. It should weight averagely upon rating.
• (Very Important): Means that the item is highly significant to the cinematic. It should weight averagely high in the final rating.

 

[Mechmap]

Camera movement
Storywise
Action
Fun to watch again

Some thing that i think counts in a good cinematic.

 

[HeretoDLstuff]

Speech\Text - Typo's, bad grammar, and things such as "lol" just shouldn't be in cinematic (unless purposefully put in). In real life, people do not pronounce "was" as "wuz". People talking un-realistically is a thing to watch for, too. ("Hey sir, There is some bad guys coming here the next day." when reporting a undead attack to the captain isn't too good. Although that's not the best example.)

Camera's - I good camera should often change angles, zoom in and out, and switch positions, so even if you are looking at the same spot you keep seeing new things, and from a different angle. There is times when this is not true, though. If the people are trying to be quiet and not move so the enemy doesn't spot them, the camera doesn't need to be moving either, for a example. (Although, You could make it change to showing the view from the enemy's vision). A good camera shouldn't be blocked by anything (Unless purposefully) and should focus on action\people.

Terrain - The terrain should not be distracting, and if its really bad, it is. The terrain should be good -- but not the main focus all the time, just make sure its good and flows well. Bad terrain is a killer. On top of that, its good to build nice environments to help you in your cinematic. In a cinematic I was making, the woman walked out onto a big rocky over hanging cliff. The camera moved underneath, showing a rock shaking and falling lose, then the cliff cracked and began to fall in to pieces and chucks and fall down, when the dust cleared it showed her dead -- Lots of work, but an epic way to
kill of a character. (too bad it never came out to my liking)

Story - Undead attacking the humans is just lame and un-original, and a very small amount of story, quite boring -- Unless it focuses on fight scenes, this will put you to sleep. Keep in mind that it could be a great storyline; just focus on the lives of the villagers and people and get to know them, so its like they are actual people you know, and then add a original twist -- maybe the bad guys win for once -- and have it go on even longer with other things happening, don't end at the fight. Make it into a series even, where the undead win in every one except in the last. If you chose this style, make sure you focus on peoples back round story, and the people they know. Then have the undead slaughter city's in towns over and over -- have the one same person stay alive, warning the next town, watching more of his family die -- then, at the end, he kills the last skeleton as it kills the last villager woman. Have max size map and zoom across the world showing everybody dead but him, all the past city's in ruins and then make him commit suicide or something. That story is trash as I made it off the bat, my point is story doesn't have to be the plot twists such as different people backstabbing, betraying, and finding ancient artifacts. That kind of story ALSO can be good. I think most of the time you should have both. Either way, storyline can be the biggest part of a cinematic.

Action & Special Effects - Things that focus too much at storyline, terrain, and such can be boring. A cinematic should have action and special effects too, no matter what kind, I think. Make sure the effects make sense. I like a cinematic thats full of action and has some good effects. The viewer should never be bored. Have some testers (like me!) view it and give feedback before you release it, storyline can be interesting, but try and find the patience limit on storyline. If you make it interesting enough, it shouldn't matter, but action and effects are a good cure to boredom!

Sorry, I gotta go. Ill finish this later (and fix spelling).

 

[thedeathunterxx]

Meckmap is right.

what a good cinematic needs :

-good camera movment, meaning nice smooth transitions between cameras, and using the fade filter to create nice effects.

- Story, meaning that your cinematic must have some point to it, to draw the watcher in. If your bored the first 5 seconds, you might not want to watch the rest of it. Which is why it is important to start with something amazing.

- sounds. Sounds are optional, but it provides an added bonus to cinematics. Music, custom sounds, and custom music can all upgrade the performance in ur cinematic.

- RE-watchability , this means that if it was interesting enough, you would watch it again.

- terrain, Terrain is the MOST IMPORTANT PART of a cinematic. If you have 2 soilders talking to each other on a flat, non- doodad - plain dirt surface, you probably wont be interested at ALL. Unless it is a comical cinematic ( since its about the words)

 

[Mechmap]

Though the tips are good thedeathunterxx I dont think she asked for a cinematic to judge.

 

[CMarket]

1. Terrain
2. Camera Movement
3. Story(It should have a good story if it is a serious cinematic, it should be funny if it is a comedy and it should be scary if it is a horror)
4. Generally fun

And no, the terrain is not the most important part, unless it is a cinematic that displays terrain, like Phoenix VII did way back. Terrain is important but the story is more important, always was, always will be. If you can't create a comedy with at least a few good jokes or a horror with at least 2-3 places where people will actually jump or at least be creeped out then you fail in cinematics. If it is a serious story it needs to have originality, even though rip offs of LotR and similar movies are acceptable if the other points are good. But of course this is just my opinion.

And advertising your cinematic in your post isn't professional especially since it is from another site. Rui actually does know what a cinematic is, there is no need for you to show him.

 

[Septimus]

1) Terrain - Should be quite decent/good
2) Camera - Should not stay/lock at the same position all the time
3) Sound - If there is any sound effect/conversation dialog with voice. The sound must be loud and clear
4) Music - Must suit the theme of the map or location of the scenario took place.
5) Special Effect - It depends
6) Language - Must be in English, if there is any foreign language being used. It must be add with english subtitle.
7) Typo Error - Cinematic should not had typo error, sometimes typo error could lead to the misunderstood.
8) Grammar Error - Not everybody could speak english quite well because english ain't their native language, but it is recommend to try to wrote a understandable english language.

 

[CMarket]

Well, you've included everything except the story. Honestly, would you want a cinematic that makes no sense? Or a horror that isn't scary at all? Or a comedy that didn't make you laugh even once?

 

[lord_ken]

Well... Story:Of course its included! Theme:Maybe. Gore:Thats just me. Camera:Whats a cinematic without it? Movement:I don't know about this one. SFX:If so. It is added if needed. Credits:Credits for the models,inspirations,tips,fans,Etc. Well thats what i think cinematics need.

 

[thedeathunterxx]

Mechmap :Though the tips are good thedeathunterxx I dont think she asked for a cinematic to judge.

sorry about that, didn't mean to harm anybodies forum...


ill take that link off asap

CMarket :
1. Terrain
2. Camera Movement
3. Story(It should have a good story if it is a serious cinematic, it should be funny if it is a comedy and it should be scary if it is a horror)
4. Generally fun

And no, the terrain is not the most important part, unless it is a cinematic that displays terrain, like Phoenix VII did way back. Terrain is important but the story is more important, always was, always will be. If you can't create a comedy with at least a few good jokes or a horror with at least 2-3 places where people will actually jump or at least be creeped out then you fail in cinematics. If it is a serious story it needs to have originality, even though rip offs of LotR and similar movies are acceptable if the other points are good. But of course this is just my opinion.

I share most of your views, but lets all agree on one thing here :

these are all dependent on one another. For instance :

u cant have a good story, without their being a nice terrain behind it to back it up. It would just appear to be people talking to each other... i find that boring anyway. Even if they were fighting , or if it was a huge battle, it would seem so empty if the terrain was lousy.

and you cant have a good cinamtic without a story. unless of course it was PVII. IF the story suks, ( i cant think of any suky stories ) then its just not interesting to watch .

 

[HeretoDLstuff]

Well, you've included everything except the story. Honestly, would you want a cinematic that makes no sense? Or a horror that isn't scary at all? Or a comedy that didn't make you laugh even once?

Horror doesn't need story to be scarey.
Comedy doesn't need story, as long as its funny. (they can make jokes without having a story)
A battle doesn't need story.


Story is awesome. But I wouldn't list it 100%. Its gonna be on my list, for sure though!

EDIT: Neither is terrian, but I HATE bad terrian, or terrain mistakes, or ANYTHING noticably wrong with terrain. As long as im not distracted enough by story or action, and the terrain is horrible, the terrain doesn't matter much though.

 

[Rui]

Well, Hereto, I called you because I got interested when you said in the King cinematic (I can't remember the exact name) that they acted like children. Maybe that should be noted on the review as well.

 

[CMarket]

Hereto I did not say horrors and comedies needed a story. I said that a horror needs to be scary and that a comedy needs to be funny.

 

[HeretoDLstuff]

Hereto I did not say horrors and comedies needed a story. I said that a horror needs to be scary and that a comedy needs to be funny.

!?!?!?!!?!?!

You said:

Well, you've included everything except the story. Honestly, would you want a cinematic that makes no sense? Or a horror that isn't scary at all? Or a comedy that didn't make you laugh even once?

He included everything but story, then you go on to say that, making it sound like you think story is what makes those things scary or funny.
confuses me.

@Rui: Oh yeah... I like cinematics, but im picky sometimes. And yeah, that bothers me. (Notice Speech is 1# on the list (first thing I though of )) Talking like children might not have been the right discription -- but thats what I mean to look out for.

EDIT: Updated my earlier post to include terrain.
EDIT2: Now includes story. Came out pretty bad though.
EDIT3: Added Action & Special Effects!

 

[CMarket]

Well I guess I did say it wrong. What I mean by "story" in comedies is the jokes and the "story" in horrors is the scary stuff although both comedies and stories can have a real story.

 

[HeretoDLstuff]

the "story" in horrors is the scary stuff

The scarey stuff in horrors comes from noises, enviorment, and suspense... not really called story..



But yes, story CAN be in horrors and comedys, and would make them better, but they can survive without it is all I was saying.

I get what you MENT to say now anyways.

 

[Rui]

I have gathered your suggestions, the first post now contains the sheet. The Hive Workshop Requirements are put at the top, the rest is organized by alphabetic order and not organized by relevance.

 

[HeretoDLstuff]

I have gathered your suggestions, the first post now contains the sheet. The Hive Workshop Requirements are put at the top, the rest is organized by alphabetic order and not organized by relevance.

I never did finish mine.


Anyways, I just wanted to remind you, there is different types of cinematics -- if its missing something like storyline and it doesn't make it seem like theres a big gap in the cinematic, don't take points off for that. Fights don't need things other cinematics do need sometimes. Different cinematics focus on different things.

Other then that I was going to add sub things too look out for -- sounds, imports (A fualt in cmarkets cinematics) and other things like that.

 

[CMarket]

Lol, I'm sure you meant fault but any chance you know what fualt means? ^^

Anyway what's a big fault in my cinematics? Imported stuff and music? I thought I used a good share of that...

 

[HeretoDLstuff]

Lol, I'm sure you meant fault but any chance you know what fault means? ^^

Anyway what's a big fault in my cinematics? Imported stuff and music? I thought I used a good share of that...

No, how GOOD the imports were is what you did bad. One of the main people, Karolina, had a messed up portrait at least, I think there was more wrong with it as well, I forget.

 

[CMarket]

Alright, I guess that was a problem(a very small one) but give me another example of the bad imports I used(not counting the song in part 1)? You can't really call it a great fault if it was one model and besides it hardly reduced my cinematic quality. I agree that it would look stupid if you used inappropriate models all the time, but once?

 

[HeretoDLstuff]

Alright, I guess that was a problem(a very small one) but give me another example of the bad imports I used(not counting the song in part 1)? You can't really call it a great fault if it was one model and besides it hardly reduced my cinematic quality. I agree that it would look stupid if you used inappropriate models all the time, but once?

I think the musketeer model looked odd too. Anyways, After I got use to it it wasn't all that bad (karolina I mean) -- but it was REALLY annoying to me at first.


Other then that, the music wasn't bad, but I think music shouldn't have lyrics with them in a cinematic unless its solely a music cinematic.

And no, It wasn't that bad in your cinematics. Your cinematics had that, and some other problems to contribute too it, but nothing big.

 

[Rui]

*ahem ahem* Gentlemen, I prefer that you take that discussion on the Sect of Holy Mother thread on Map Development or in private.
This thread is meant to contribute to the Cinematic sheet. Do not go off-topic.
I have started using the sheet but it's not closed yet. I am always open for improvement suggestions.

 

[CMarket]

Yeah, Rui is right. Sorry, Rui.

 

[Rui]

I suppose this isn't getting any more comments? If there's something I missed in my review sheet, please note it.
In my opinion, it worked quite well on CMarket's Sect of the Holy Mom ^^ (sorry for using your series as an experiment, CMarket). I'm still open to suggestions, however.

 

[lord_ken]

I still think Terrain and Camera's play a big role in the cinematic.

 

[CMarket]

So what's the problem? He uses that in his template.

 

[lord_ken]

Im just giving my opinion. :3

 

[Rui]

We should settle a few priorities, I guess. I'll be editing my post in a moment.

EDIT: Done. I've set up 3 "priorities" let's say.

• (Not [Very] Important): Means that the item is not a very important matter in the cinematic. It should still count, however.
• (Important): Means that the item has an average level of significance. It should weight averagely upon rating.
• (Very Important): Means that the item is highly significant to the cinematic. It should weight averagely high in the final rating.

Review the first post and tell me if I have set the priorities well, please.

EDIT(2): There is also another thing I'd like to mention. What about adding Duration? Not like it matters much, but maybe it should be taken into consideration as well. What do you say?

 

[lord_ken]

Rui i don't understand. Im itching my head like it has a war inside it.

 

[Rui]

What are you not understanding? I might have confused you with the word "priorities". What I meant with it was that certain points are more important than others. I'll replace the detail.

 

[lord_ken]

Oh, Thanks.

 

[Mechmap]

Camera and music should also be Very Important.

 

[Rui]

I think those are alright as (Important). Cameras look good in a lot of ways, and nobody is going to use Pursuit for let's say, a village theme. People who don't know how to set up decent cameras and soundsets won't even get to finish their cinematic.

 

[Mechmap]

At least music is a very important thing as it gives a mood to the cinematic.

 

[Ash]

Still. Not. In. English.

 

[Rui]

What language is my review sheet on, then?

 

[Ash]

I'd say it's written in shit, but I'm interested in helping the hive improve.

This is not a review, nor is your other attempts at getting the hive to 'review' maps, it is mearly a collection of points stating whether or not the map is good or bad. Maybe you should read this.

 

[Rui]

Just because it might not be a review in it's dictionary description, it doesn't mean it's written in "shit". It's written in English with a level for all the Hive Workshop users to understand. This is not supposed to be a review sheet to be traded to Wc3campaigns or anything.
If you cannot get over my opinion on the awesomeness wiki, then I guess I have nothing else to say.

This clearly isn't getting anywhere else, so thank you very much for your input, everyone, and
~Thread Locked