Chaos Colossus 0.87d

[Moderator]

10:57, 16th Dec 2009
ap0calypse: Approved

 

[T-s-G]

I am SO gonna try this map... Although I do not like LOTR /:

 

[Dj0z]

Well you don't need to like specifically LotR to like this map.
(i don't play LotR warcraft maps btw, they're just too... stuck to the real story)
Basically, when i think of an epic movie with great songs and atmosphere, in a fantasy/medieval lore, among the few ones i saw i think LotR is what resembles it the most, afaik (especially with that balrog part).

I've seen eragon too but, well, it doesnt fit that well, ya know |: .
And the narnia/potter/etc series i didnt happen to watch them.

 

[Burning_Iegion]

Wow this map is so freaking awesome man... It's such a big loss if you don't try it
Lord of the Rings is nothing compared to this... plaaay it

 

[Kingprice]

I will try your map hope its good

Syr i cant see what to do in your map. The only thing I saw is that your map is well designed. I don't know what to do with this shade and how to defend the well. Syr I think this is my fault so I can'T give a rating

 

[Dj0z]

okay..
i'd like to know if you read the texts and tips, because if you did, that means i have some serious revamp to do on explanations/briefing :s.

 

[Urgan]

Hey, I tried your map out, and I can say though that the idea is fairly cool, the implementation is a bit flawed.

First off, you boot people who do not want to watch your cinematic. No, I did not get booted, however, some players did. I feel this is wrong. You are not creating a "Are you a retard?" maze. If the players don't want to watch a cinematic, don't punish them. You hurt the people trying to play the game more than anything else. It's hard to get enough people to play this to begin with, with a big file size, and a unknown map, so when you lose someone, it's fairly disheartening.

Secondly, the constant music in the background, which even if we turn off the music, we still have to listen to, being repeated over and over. Its sorta cool at first, but after 5 seconds, it gets old, because the music quality is very poor.

A fairly large bug was found during our play session - If you jump to an area that is near/on the holywell, your colossus disappears : P May want to fix that.

Theres a lot of potential in this map, however, it's very complicated for new players. Not that the objective is confusing. It's how to control your colussi, and trying to learn how to do everything there is to do. Also, the beginning is fairly boring for colossi players.

2.5-3/5

 

[Dj0z]

Dude, i gotta say THANK YOU!
--(btw r u the active guy from clan MoC? looks like i know ur aka)--
I didn't expect such detailed criticism within a so short time, and i'm really pleased


I'm glad you like the core of the map, so let me explain some of the flaws:

-The "boot-IF-someone-hits-escape-twice" during intro is not pure fantasy of mine, i had to implement this because hitting escape during the scene instantly cancels the unit speech (which happens to be the briefing, and explanations on how to play), and it also cancels the current scene sound, for ALL players.
->Before i implement the anti-escape, there would always be some impatient dude on crack spamming escape all the intro long... I think you get the point by now, if players cant read neither hear their briefing, the flaw is even bigger.
*Besides, they need to hit escape 2 times, with at least 1 second inbetween. That means they have the time to read the warning and notice the system actually works (alot of dudes hit esc once "just to see").

About the music, this is also a workaround. The editor won't play music like it should, so i was forced to use sound variables for the music, which is why you cannot turn it off like normal music.
Also, the quality is poor but you know, bnet allows only 4 mb for hosting...

About the disappearing bug, you need to make sure the colossus didnt re-appear somewhere in a river.
I made a "secret river pass" which lets you travel underground and repop in the rivers around the center, if you jump into the water right next to the Well.
If the Colossus never repoped, however, then it's really a bug. (note that this secret pass is abit small to let a colossus through, realism-wise... ill think about it)


About the map being complicated, yes i confess it's disturbing for new players but usually after 2 games they play like pros. Anyways i let you know that i am currently (like, right now) finishing the introduction scene, which should be of Much help for newcomers
And i will focus the upcoming versions on making the map more noob-friendly.


Thanks for the rating and the review.

 

[Erader]

Need's AI.

 

[T-s-G]

Reds Infobox has a 'bug' or whatever you might call it: each havent got its colour, and the color code doesnt look good in a infobox xD

Also: The cinematic started like... 5 minutes after the game start. Is this intended?

Anyways, gonna try it online now.

Oh yeah! And the name.. Wouldnt it sound better like this: Chaos of The Colossus? I would rather like it to be called that. But hey, I didnt make the map!

So, now I played it, and I have to say: WOW! It was really fun, being an Collosus, pwning the defenders (which left after 10 minutes -_-') The only minus is, you do not know what to do when you play this, the first time. Being an Colussus isnt that hard. But the Defenders starts to leave, because the Colossus' is too good (I think) for the Defenders. But 5/5 from here Okay theres another minus ^^
The tips pops up during the Credits (not sure if they do in the Intro)

 

[Dj0z]

0.59 is out! Check out the numerous improvements!

A lot of balance changes were made to make the map more enjoyable for everyone.

 

[Wazzz]

Very interesting map, I like it a lot!

I have to agree when you say LOTR maps are a far too concentrated on the story. Just seems to be a lack of focus on the gameplay and more focus on the best way to implement Tom Bombadil, or whether or not you should actually include him because he wasn't in the movie. It's just a little meh when every LOTR map is more or less like that. Why not make a map sort of based around the gameplay of Battle For Middle Earth? Not saying to copy it, but to at least make it that you select a race at a starting location, build your base and get your armies.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Found your concept veeery awesome indeed. Although I don't go for these types of maps, I feel as though this is a worthy addition to the genre of... uh... maps like this, I guess. Whatever the genre is, I like what you've done with it!

And yes, it does feel as though you're playing in a movie, except that you actually choose the ending . Good job! 4/5

 

[Burning_Iegion]

Heloooo Dj
Don't you see?

 

[Dj0z]

First, thanks for the great review!
Second, Yea in this map i focused on the gameplay, the atmosphere, put short: what the player feels when he plays.
I tried to make it so that when you play it, you say to yourself "omg i didnt know warcraft 3 could feel so great!"

And i have aLOT of improvement ideas for the upcoming versions .

About the type, i dont rly think there is one. WHen they ask me on bnet, i answer "its unique". I can't say its "a movie" cuz they would think you don't actually play (while you freaking do, lol).

If you mind joining the beta testing team, i'd be happy. Anyways, thx for the nice review and rating!

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, that'd be cool to be a part of the beta testing team, I might just check it out

As I said before, I don't usually go for maps where there are preset locations and everything, but what you've done is sort of like a campaign where there is a story with the addition of having multiple players involved.

I get sick of seeing the same style of gameplay (How many more ppl want to do the Battle of Helms Deep? I mean, come one! Do something else!), which is why seeing such a change and a twist on the norm is so refreshing.

Those Collossi are so awesome, they just pwn everything

Mind you, I had to look around to figure out how to get units, but once I did it was pretty simple. It's a good indication that your gameplay is unique when players have to think of new strategies to implement.

 

[Dj0z]

That's great, because i have a real need for originality, in all the maps i make.
That, because i think redoing what has already been done, unless its made extremely better, is more of a waste of time than anything else.

Also because well, when you're tired of one map, you wanna enjoy something different.
What if that something different happens to be a remake?! That's a big issue in mapmaking atm, and i'm there to solve it.

Of course, unique gameplay brings more unfamiliarity and abit of difficulty for newcomers, but then again, it settles after one game or two, for greater enjoyment!

It seems like, at least for you and a some others, i succeeded on this point, which is already very gratifying

I make new versions quite often, because there's always something that can be improved. Stay tuned!
*imma add the link to the website in the main post, that could be useful lol*

 

[T-s-G]

Juice Dj0z, I dont really have the feeling of being in a movie like that. What about you made like a king in the cities or something? And then some of them ran away, once they came down on low hp. Would make a feeling of an actor whos a COWARD! ^^

 

[Wazzz]

I don't think you understand that playing a game with a movie experience implies that you still have control over units and/or characters. To me, it's about as close to a movie as I care to have, because if it got any more like a movie, it would take away a lot of the control of the game, making it pointless to play. As that is not the case, leave well enough alone.

 

[Zack1996]

I like it. Its quite a decent game. A few suggestions though

Holy Well can be played by a player? When someone played it, that guy said he couldn't do anything and left... Thats kinda weird/lame -_-
Also, since those Spellbooks contain passive spells, it doesn't matter whether the players see them. Use the Trigger Player- Disable Ability (Disable the spellbook, they can't open it but the units still can use the passive). That way, you can also ignore the tooltips XD

Also, I don't seem to be able to level the skills of the Colossus... What's wrong? The leveller should allow me to level my skills correct? Then why can't I do so
The leveller has no skill points, thus making me unable to level those skills.
Also, when I tried Stygian to see Diabolic Edict (XD), I found out that the Colossus does not even have the skill in its Menu... What's wrong?

The Pillars of Light are godlike, without destroying those other pillars, the one it is channeled upon is a crazily powerful thing :S. I would also suggest you pause the animation (Set animation speed to 0%) of the Light Dome so it looks more like a static dome.

What seems to be the problem for revival? Is the system bugged like crazy? Believe me, I know how that feels like, nearly made me abandon a map . I could give advice you need any

Overall, a rather good map. Keep up the good work
PS: Maybe add an option to skip the cinematic, maybe a voting system

 

[Wazzz]

When it comes to levelling up your Colossi, some abilities are leveled by the Leveller, others by the Colossi itself. It's a little complicated, but about as good as you can get, considering there are over 5 abilities to level (5 being the Hero max D.

 

[Dj0z]

Nice, some feedback ^^
*However Zack im sad you had a bad test game, because it seems you were very unlucky on this one, ill explain why.

@T-s-g well maybe cutscenes, terrain, detailed animations and large camera travels ain't enough for you yet, but don't worry i have alot of additional ideas to improve that feeling.
Thx Wazzz for the support

Okay here we go Zack:
--The Holy Well is a player, with many spell, mostly support ones, and thats all.
It also has 4 powerful towers which serve as elite guards near the center.
->What happened to the impatient/blind dude who was playing the Well is that he didnt ever even click on the Well, to notice it's an actual unit, Or during the 3 minutes before the enemies arrive (so that humans can setup a defense) he got bored and left.

--About the passives in spellbooks, they are there so the player knows he has them!
How can you tell you have a damage aura, a bash, evasion, such things, if you cannot see them in your hero lol.

--About the leveler and colossi skills, its as simple as that: the leveler is an extension of your hero.
Reason: a hero can only have 5 hero skills (thx blizzard >.>)
Solution: you have a "dummy hero" called the Leveler that you use to level up your extra hero skills (the ones in the spellbooks). And voila \o/
Of course they use the same skillpoints which means if you instantly level something up in your actual hero anytime he levels up, of course you will never have spare points in your leveler lulz

--About Diabolic edict, it is simply in the 2nd spellbook of the stygian colossus, right next to the default spellbook that any colossus has
By the way, this spellbook uses its own leveler, which is the 3rd "hero icon" that popped up when you evolved That allows one single hero to hang around with 5+5+3 = 13 spells ^^ (potentially, and not counting the "management" ones like "summon army").

--The static dome is uglier than you think i will make the domes more easily noticeable in later versions though.

--There is no revival system at all atm :> colossi just don't revive (for now), and humans can revive at any of their portals, for free. Yea they better have a backup portal somewhere safe, but i will fix that too later.


Now that you know how to find and use your spell, enjoy it

 

[Eldrazor]

Machinegunners (1st help wave) are really imba... Besides, machinegunners in the medieval ages?

 

[Dj0z]

Well, they are to be replaced with something more fitting later. I just needed powerful human ranged units, they are all that came to my mind.
Did the map inspire you no other comment?...

 

[Alkanu]

Suggestion

Not to long ago I played an earlier version (.50 something) kil'jaedeon was controlled by the AI while I was playing the collosi and he was summoning troops, ALOT of troops and I thought it would be awesome to play as it when it came out. Then when I played this latest version I was really dissapointed to see that I could only have like a max of 7 troops, though I will give you that they are strong but I was really looking forward to just being able to summon lots of troops quickly to aid my allies instead of relying on spells with just a couple troops. I think it would be a better idea if kil'jaedon earned XP slowly but every time he levels up he gains maybe a new ability or the ability to summon a different troop... know what I mean?

 

[Dj0z]

Umm first, if you summon KJ's genuine troops (the romozaurs), you can have 10 of them.

But Yea i can understand what u mean.
Point is,
-i've been kinda forced to reduce the overall amount of units around the map, in order to limit the lag for everyone. It proved succesfull, and thats one of the reasons why KJ's troops had a facelift.
-i also thought that if he was able to summon badass fatties (as in, strong and expensive) like the Colossi, he would be more prone to summoning strong units himself, and maybe letting his uber minions summon smaller troops for themselves (like the Colossi do, ya know).

I hope you'll agree with that, but if you don't, the best thing is to post this kind of suggestion-type feedback straight in the official forums of the map, the link being in the main post of this thread. I check them out at least twice a day, and the viability of updates is actively discussed there.
*This map, anyways, is a beta, and that means almost nothing in it is really built in stone, if you know what i mean. I can always change things around as long as the very global gameplay, map performance (in lag terms mostly), and filesize can support it.

You seem to like the Kil'Jaeden slot fairly enough, and i would be happy to hear more of what you can suggest for him. Not many people are suggesting anything solid for him yet.
See ya.

 

[Wolf the ultimate]

Your map sucks, men! It's a piece of shitcake! What where you thinking when you made this map? There is nothing to do, man! Re-edit it as fast as you can!

 

[TheHunterKiller]

Well i guess ill test it.
Oh its broken D: Tell me when you have fix'd it.

 

[Dj0z]

Okay i will. Expect the revival in anything from a week to two.

EDIT: Well it took quite some time but CC is Back! Without a couple features (injured by 1.24) but actually playable and alive )

 

[slayer4000x2008]

When I was reading about I thought of "Shadow of the Colossus". Game sounds cool I might download it later and try.

 

[Dj0z]

When I was reading about I thought of "Shadow of the Colossus". Game sounds cool I might download it later and try.

That is justified: SotC is a good part of what inspired me into making this. Though i never actually played it myself, i had been expecting its release and i watched alot of videos because i really liked its concept and atmosphere.

When you've tried CC please make sure to let me know what you think about it, especially if you know SotC well.

 

[warblazer]

i played, and beat SoTC and in my personal opinion, i didnt understand the storyline much, all i got was that i had to save someone, but didnt understand why i had to kill a series of giants. from what i saw there was virtually no dialog so i found it kinda boring... but i will test CC soon or tomarrow and give you my opinion from all the comments it looks really fun and look forward to testing

after testing i found that some colossi dont even understand what to do by the time the angels come, and by then most have given up trying to explain what to do if they dont understand by then, so i dont know if it was just some incompitent players or something but.... and maby the relics could have some ability? or the possability of delaying the arrival of the angels? and maby you could make the angels killable but extreamly hard to do so. so that if there are some people who can kill them then the humans wont have to just hold off and wait for reinforcements, but when the holy help comes make the colossi killable?

 

[Dj0z]

i played, and beat SoTC and in my personal opinion, i didnt understand the storyline much, all i got was that i had to save someone, but didnt understand why i had to kill a series of giants. from what i saw there was virtually no dialog so i found it kinda boring... but i will test CC soon or tomarrow and give you my opinion from all the comments it looks really fun and look forward to testing

Is that so? Well i never played SotC myself, but i always feared that if ever i play it, i find it too boring because of too rare action.
I mean, it's theme is about something else than raw battle, all fine, okay.

But sometimes you wish you could just roam around avoiding massive evil attacks coming from all sides and even from over your head, under your feet or even outta nowhere, and you'd be supposed to somehow defend something important from all this madness...
So, well, i ended up making Chaos Colossus.
From what you've said in your comment, the lack of storyline of SotC and the unexisting dialog are problems you won't find in CC, so i have good confidence that you'll like it.

Look forward for version 0.70 which will come with many user-friendly, smoothess, clearness (if that word exists) and gameplay polishing improvements. Simply put, a cleanup.

 

[Burning_Iegion]

Well guys all I can say is play tha map!
Now it's fully revived and there's balance again yay I'm gonna host it right now.

 

[Vengeancekael]

*Spoiler Alert*

5/5 for Perfect
4/5 for Really Good
3/5 for Good
2/5 for Fair
1/5 for Bad
0/5 for Horrible
For Overall Rating:
15 - 20 for Perfect/Excellent
10 - 15 for Really Good/Fair
05 - 10 for Bad/No fun
00 - 05 for Horrible/Disgusting

Story:-, it's a basic story, but you could've implemented a better story into the map. I will leave this point blank.

Quests:-, not gonna rate the quests, since there's just one objective, but more objectives would be better.

Combat:3/5, the combat is well i don't really know what to say but it's fun Yet not satisfying.

Sounds/effects/skills/Models/Skins:3/5, well you used custom models, that's a plus and some sounds,etc. but you should use smaller models the next time because 3mb could take long to download in battle.net. Also the wall block model doesn't really look good.

Terrain:3/5, the terrain is fine, except there are some spots which are made very quickly and they look ugly.

Gameplay/Fun factor4/5, well it is in some ways "original", but like i said before, some side objectives would be nice

Bugs/Hive Description factorN/A, the hive description is acceptable. etc. you have not broken any of the hive rules.

Overall:13/20, well that's a normal rating, i don't usually give such a high rating, but i guess this map deserves it. So right now my suggestions are:
-Improve the terrain, it doesn't look good at some spots
-Maybe some more side objectives
-Some of the models don't look good, maybe you should use other ones.
-The game is hard to understand the first time, so maybe you should improve the starting tutorial

But i'm sure that with each map and each update, you will improve your skills. Good luck
13/20: Fair
Comment: "...Original in some ways..."

 

[R.Gaming_Strike]

You promised We would feel like in a movie? - Haha - fail

 

[Dj0z]

I never promised anything to you, that's for sure.

 

[Wazzz]

You promised We would feel like in a movie? - Haha - fail

Wow, suspect that you won't be surviving around the hive for too long now. Keep it up, I somehow doubt anyone would miss you, anyway.

 

[Vengeancekael]

Wow, suspect that you won't be surviving around the hive for too long now. Keep it up, I somehow doubt anyone would miss you, anyway.

You know, that sounds mean.

 

[Dj0z]

Just like what r.gs said, if you ask me. Just sayin'.

 

[Wazzz]

Yea vengeance, look at what he posted and tell me if any part of that was helpful. Is it not true that flamers and trollers generally don't last long in the hiveworkshop? Therefore, how is making a simple statement that is 100% accurate and right on the money unfair? I don't care if it sounds mean, it isn't unfair, and therefore it is entirely appropriate.

I'm surprised to see R.g's post is still there. If he has any sense of decency, he would remove it before a mod catches sight of it.

 

[Vengeancekael]

Well i suppose that is true, but you could "complain" in a better way.

 

[Burning_Iegion]

I doubt he even played the map. And if he did, the only explaination is that he s****d badly.
Now back to topic, peepz!

 

[Dj0z]

0.74 is out, enjoy
It comes with major changes especially for the Defenders, who long awaited that gameplay & balance overhaul.

EDIT: Actually, 0.75 comes completing the recent overhaul, by making the Domes actually repel chaos efficiently.
Also fixes the most common glitches that used to annoy the players sometimes.

v0.76 brings many gameplay and cosmetics improvements, and makes the Well more active than before.
I've already received much positive feedback on this one. Check it out!

 

[Burning_Iegion]

nice wall model. The Avatar of the well pwnz too.

 

[Burning_Iegion]

The birds of Zues are new units right?

 

[Dj0z]

The birds of Zues are new units right?

Yep, they weren't obtainable before.

EDIT: Actually, neither were gunners, same for wolf riders imo.

 

[Lag_Reviews]

Awesome map, Heres a Review:

Awesome map it should be higher rating.

Although It is not perfect so... let me rate this map!

I played as Colossus and defender I played the defender mostly (The one which could build towers)

First method of rating:

1) Terrain - Excellent (4)
The terrain is awesome, it is very good texture. To get a better rating for this get a few more custom doodads and maybe make special effects like rain and sunlight etc

2) Fun factor/gameplay - Ecellent (4.5)
The game-play of the game is Excellent although there is missing. You Need to add something just to boost it up to 5.

3) Single player - Bad (1)
Single player is really bad because there is no AI support.

4) AI support - Horrible (0)
There is no AI support that part gets a 0

5) Originality - Excellent (5)
This map is very original and unique as it is a one of a kind defend the well map.

6) File Size - Reasonable (3)
File size is a bit on the small side (This means you have alot of room for improvement) But overall, the file size is reasonable.

7) Internet/LAN Friendly - Excellent (5)
Works very well over LAN and Internet, as it does not crash for random reasons.

8) Balancing - Excellent (4)
You balance this game excellently. As mentioned above, the idea is too defend or destroy the well inside the time limit. As far as I saw nearly everything around the map was balanced although a few towers when fully upgraded might own a few of the units if there are only like one or two attacking that tower.

9) Credits - Excellent (5)
You list the credits very well and list all the people/beta testers good job.

10) Theme - Excellent (5)
Defend the well very very original.

11) Description/Information/Detail - good (4)
add a youtube video to the description to make it good and maybe an upcoming update log.

12) Hiveworkshop rules & regulation - Good (5)
Fits all Hiveworkshop Rules!

Overall top rating (45.5/60)

Second method of rating:

Game-play [4/5]:
The game-play of the game is Excellent although there is missing. You Need to add something just to boost it up to 5.

Balance [4/5]:
You balance this game excellently. As mentioned above, the idea is too defend or destroy the well inside the time limit. As far as I saw nearly everything around the map was balanced although a few towers when fully upgraded might own a few of the units if there are only like one or two attacking that tower.


Visuals [3/5]:
The visuals of the game, the look and feel is just average. From what I see there are not many custom models or anything like that for buildings, creeps and towers (Get some it would make this map epic) As for the Terrain that is just awesome, it is very good texture. To get a better rating for this get a few more custom doodads(like 1 or 2 here and there) and maybe make special effects like rain and sunlight etc

Usefulness of the map [4/5]:
Other then a couple of tweaks and fixes, I would share this game to anyone who enjoys a slow type of keep the hero alive. If you work out a few more tweaks, I am sure you will get a higher grade. This map is very useful/fun.

Other Points [3/5]:
While the idea of the game is very good and suits the map well, although it still has alot of things that could be done to make it look, feel and even be more enjoyable all over. Although on a good point there are no bugs within the game that I have actually found. Overall the game is working, has no bugs and just a few customization issues in need to make it a 5/5 star map.

Stuff to add in future (-3.5):

• Add AI support, it is a bit hard to get a full house sometimes (IT would be good to chuck a few AI to fill up the spots, especially if you are playing LAN or single player.)
• Add custom voices for cinametic at start
• Add Custom background music it seems dull
• Add custom models for heroes, buildings, upgrades and units etc
• Add Special effects like snow/rain or sunlight

18/25 (from above)
minus 3.5 for the stuff you need to add to make it better
Overall Bottom Rating(15.5/25)

Overall with a few tweaks this will be an awesome map,
Lag_Reviews


PS: Nice loading screen, custom gameplay, Also loved the number of upgrades there were in the map! Keep up the good work and i'm sure this map will become huge!

PSS: This is a total different review from your other map.

 

[Dj0z]

Thanks for reviewing, buddy even though you forgot to update some fields when you pasted the review you made for Rival Dynasties into here

Awesome map it should be higher rating.

Although It is not perfect so... let me rate this map!

Please Note: I played ffa and kings + units + buildings

Like this point for instance lol. It made me think you had posted in the wrong thread at first .
You might wanna rewrite those parts so i know really what you think of Chaos Colossus.
So actually, what did you play, Defender or Colossus (or the Well or Kil'Jaeden)?

 

[LexX]

I've read the descriprions and I find it interesting, though I don't like such type of maps.
And is there any weapons for humans to match their anamies?
You know, like a veeery big crossbow - human "mount" it and use, but cannot move until unmount.