Champion Discussion - Rengar

[TheWhiteWolf]

So, why the hate?

Rengar is my main champion, and I constantly hear people complaining about him being weak. But I literally don't remember the last time I had negative or neutral score on him. And most of the positive scores were a pure domination.

Please, state, in your opinion, his biggest flaw, and I will be glad to answer each and every question thoroughly.

 

[Kino]

He pretty much has overwhelming damage early game and that's all.
You don't have tankyness unless you build it, if you don't build damage, you wont have it later either.
If you don't get fed, you don't do anything.

People like characters with adaptability. Reng is mostly a 1 trick burst pony.


However if youre feeling like doing something really ridiculous, do revive+tele full glass cannon rengar. Make sure to add + tower dmg mastery.
Suicide push all day.

 

[Vunjo]

One of his other problems is the late game teamfight. Those kinds of fights usually happen near inhibitors/towers, far away from any bush, where only mobility he has is the ultimate, which is pretty much his initiate. You can build BoTRK or any other item, but that doesn't mean Rengar has mobility, any champion can have this "mobility" with such item.

In the above post it's indeed mentioned about his tankyness, which is correct overall. The only defensive tool he has, is his W. The armor and magic resistance are...kinda silly. Compare them with Rammus for instance. Not such a bad bonus, but way too short duration. If you use empowered W to heal yourself, you're not doing much damage then.

He's a decent assassin, cappable of killing the targets in less than a second. This is indeed surprisingly high burst damage, but that's pretty much all he has. If enemies are far away, you won't be able to deal any damage to them (as glass cannon assassin) without the bushes, and bursting just 1 target is not always enough. A glass cannon Master Yi does a better job in my opinion. Sure Rengar has a bit higher burst, but he's useless after that unlike Master Yi for instance. Not to mention that Rengar does single target damage (I build Hydra, but we're questioning the champion, not the build, so it can't really count), while other famous assassins like Zed, Talon, or Fizz, have a decent AoE damage, along with single target burst.

As a bruiser he excels at nothing. This is of course late game, where everyone have their builds made. You can only burst down a glass cannon, but not even ranged ADCs are glass cannons now (Most of them get either Guardian Angel or Warmog's). And after that, you're heavily dependable on your build to grant you mobility, or bushes, which does not happen in late game.

He excels at early game, as high burst damage against glass cannons. If you get fed in early game, you can dominate in late game, but let's face it, who is not strong in late game when fed (Don't give me Shaco, people can't build him properly, his burst damage is quite high as well)?

Overall, Rengar's overall an all-in choice, in most cases. If you win early game, you win late game, and winning early game with Rengar depends on players themselves, which isn't their thing I suppose. It's much easier to pick Darius for example and be strong in all parts of game, almost not depending on the build at all.

 

[Lord_Demon_X]

For me Rengar isn't weak, but not so strong for three main reasons:
-The double Q has a really nice damage output along with a nice attackspeed bonus, not a so high CD but without Rengar's DPS drop drastically, giving a time of weakness when it is not available, moreover it has a melee range, which mean that if you can't get to your target, you loose a big part of your utility in the fight.
-The ultimate gives mobility, detection of hidden dudes, ressource bonus, hidden taunt. But take 3s when you're damaged so, you can get it too late, which make it kinda useless (you won't go 1v5), thus it need to mind about using it, if you use it because you think you're team will engage/counterengage and nothing happen you've wasted it. Moreover when you fight you have two possiblities: use it to engage/rush to a squishy target or keep it to escape if your team lose the fight.
-Finally, the necklace, probably the most weakness/strenght of Rengar because if you buy it when you're not snowballing you'll maybe never get many stacks, and even if you snowball there is the risk that the ennemy team outplays you at the (mid/late)game and make the stacks you've earned soft memories. In both case you've wasted money, when you would have built a core/tier 3 item, and lost time trying getting nice bonuses that you won't keep. The only thing that is great is that you can keep the bonuses if you get the head of Kha... So the item isn't really worth, which is stupid because it has a great part in the Pridestalker's gameplay like Viktor's scepter.

Globally I think that Rengar is stronger in the Twisted Treeline than in the Summonners' Rift because the map is smaller, have more bushes and no "pinkwards" (except: mushrooms, Jacks in the box, Nyandalee's traps...)

But in the SR he looks mostly like a situationnal pick, strong vs somes team comp. His global strenght is that he excels in glass canon assassin for 2-shot the Marksman or the Mage, escape in the jungle and go back when his Q is available and has a "Tankssassin" (like Tanktheon) which has a nice DPS along with quite enought/high tankyness.

Oh ! And one last word: That's not what your tm think (except if they are challengers and are making you climbing the ladder) that count, the community has forgotten what fun is, even in normal game, so I can only wish you: glhf !

 

[TheWhiteWolf]

Allright, so:

Kino: Yes, Rengar is not too adaptable. He has a certain style of play which consists of focusing on bringing a single target down. And yes, if you don't take a few kills in the beginning, you will be weak. But then again, Rengar has sick early game. Jungle with him almost guarantees you will have good early: kill from a gank or counter jungle is almost guaranteed. On top, newbie players will just fail, mildly experienced players will use his enchanced Q an cry as their enemy escapes with 100 hp, and pro players will poke the enemy down from the bush until he is around 60% hp, then combo him in a deadly all-in for the first kill. And then again, I do not agree about the tankyness. He is not a tank, but he can have pretty decent survivability without holding down on dps (Frozen Mallet + Black Cleaver + Trinity Force - sick damage with enough survivability - add boots, and that leaves two slots open - one is for your BT and the other one for either a tank or dps item, or the necklace).

Vunjo:
Late game - you should just poke them with E until the teamfight starts. Then you activate ultimate and take down their marksman in a quick combo. If you used it correctly, the marksman and his support will be too occupied by the teamfight to notice you until it is too late. Then, without their marksman, with the teamfight raging on, you can safely commit to taking them out one by one. No, this is not guaranteed to work. But it is not useless either.
Tankyness - already explained that to Kino. And the roar is actually more useful in top lane trades than you might think.
Assassination quality - well we disagree here more than anywhere else. Maybe Yi will do more damage, and Fizz, Talon and Zed will burst whole areas, but they have a crucial weakness - you see them all coming and can react. If played right, Rengar is guaranteed to burst down a single target in a materr of a second.
The part when you mentioned he is a bad bruiser - well yeah he is an assassin... Anyway, if we are in the stage of the game where the adc bought their tanky items, meaning their final builds, you can only expect the same from Rengar. This means he will be good enough to destroy them in a second.
The last part - In short - if you win the game, you will win the game and it depends on the player... I am so fascinated! When did you discover this? Just kidding mate But come on, that is so obvious and same for every champion.

Lord Demon X
He is quite dependable on using your abilities at right times. He might not be an easy champion, but he is a damn good one.
The ultimate is an awesome tool. Also, you do depend on using it at the right time. And it can be wasted. Just like 90% of other ultimates. For instance, you fire Ez's or Draven's or Malphite or any other not-single target ulti and miss. Failed hard.
Necklace. Yes. Can be an awesome weapon, but can also be a waste of money. Well, Rengar depends on the player's skills more than any other champion. In good hands, he is extremely lethal, but he can be failed quite easily. Just to make it simple > Rengar benefits from the player skill much more than any other champion, but that can go the other way.
Yeah, I agree on this. Twisted treeline is definitely better for him. This goes for Dominion too. In the Crystal Scar he can easily find isolated targets and leave them without a chance for escaping.

 

[Vunjo]

Please, I know how to play Rengar, and I'm not playing him top. I'm just stating what meta Rengar does, not what my Rengar does

 

[TheWhiteWolf]

Hehe that's my point He is a hard-to-master champion with a specific role, and he owns that role like nobody else if played right