Legion Discussion

[Razosh]

I really loved Stormheim, though I prefer Azsuna and Prince Farondis' storyline, especially when he shoots up fireballs to

Spoiler

an image of Azshara

.

There's a new Valarjar faction though, I hope they will reward Storm Drake mounts.

I don't know as a Swede it's hard to beat the Vrykul, the only 5-man dungeon I liked more than Utgård Pinnacle in WotLK was the Occulus.

 

[Chen]

I wonder if there'll be a Vry'kul patch though, as Sylvanas and Helya's storylines aren't done yet.

 

[Razosh]

I wonder if there'll be a Vry'kul patch though, as Sylvanas and Helya's storylines aren't done yet.

I have no doubt the VAL'KYR will play a huge part in the lore especially considering that they're featured so heavily, will there be story about them, yes, will there be an entire patch around them probably not.

 

[Chaosy]

I don't know as a Swede it's hard to beat the Vrykul, the only 5-man dungeon I liked more than Utgård Pinnacle in WotLK was the Occulus.

Utgård
Well to be fair the names are ripped of norse mythology.
Loken *cough*

Anyway..

Garrisons are back! yay..

 

[Razosh]

Utgård
Well to be fair the names are ripped of norse mythology.

We're two Swedes, I think I am authorized to use the letter Å.

Loken *cough*

Freja, Thorim, Hodir, Mimiron, Tyr, Stormheim, Nordrassil, Jormungar and what not. ^^

Anyway..

Garrisons are back! yay..

Weren't they going to be way different than the ones used in WoD though?

Spoilers

Spoiler

FUCK YES! THE FECKER IS DEAD! ^^ ALL HAIL Anduin!

 

[Chaosy]

Not by a lot. You got "champions" which are exactly like the garrison followers, but you can only have 6 of them.
Then there are troops, which are like the ships in the shipyard which means they can get destroyed.

Apparently the missions are needed to unlock some artifact stuff which makes it required for basically everyone unless you want to lose talents.

I am gonna delete all my alliance characters now. Fuck alliance. And fuck humans in particular.

 

[Razosh]

Although we do see some interesting demons returning like Tichondrius and lets not forget the one the only:

 

[Chen]

Lol I got no problems with the Mission Table but bringing it back is meh. I hope they won't be like Shipyard that you need to spend much for equipment.

Jaina is stupid.

 

[Razosh]

Jaina is stupid.

In Legion it does seem like she's going further and further down the crazy maniac route.

 

[Razosh]

So the new warlock quests are in and they look amazing. ^^

 

[Chen]

Lol loved that questline, betraying Gul'dan himself and all.

 

[Razosh]

Lol loved that questline, betraying Gul'dan himself and all.

Betrayal of the betrayer, I like the concept. ^^

 

[Chen]

Traiception ^^ Goes along with all those plot with Illidan the Betrayer(AND Betrayed)...who got his powers from Gul'dan.

 

[WhiteFang]

I'm going to take a selfie with Illidan

 

[Razosh]

Well... I guess it's settled...

SPOILER

 

[Chen]

Spoiler

Well we still have to see a cinematic of him dying. It's possible that he negotiated with Sylvanas so he can fake his death again, so he can meet this "old friend". It's also possible that he actually died or he ordered Sylvanas to kill him so he can negotiate with Bwonsamdi or other Loas.

In other news, the Park District is finally rebuilt as a memorial to the fallen of the Broken Shore.

 

[Razosh]

Spoilers

Alright in case you didn't notice the quest text this is what it says: It's a wounder any of our troops survived that bloodbath on the broken shore. If not for lady Sylvanas...

High Overlord Saurfang has been asking for you at Grommash Hold. He will not say why... but he was insistent that I send you to him.

It appears that Sylvanas got all the Horde troops out in time and if you've watched the Alliance version you'll know that she said that the Horde betrayed the Alliance at the Broken Shore. It therefor stands to reason that she did not rescue the Alliance and that she blames Sylvanas for the death of Varian as a result.

Sylvanas in turn says after the battle "Broken Shore was just the beginning. The Alliance will retaliate. Given the opportunity, they will strike when we are weak." Whatever the fuck this is supposed to mean I'm sure I have no idea, but it seems both sides considers themselves betrayed.

Vol'Jin clearly survives the battle at the Broken Shore, BUT, he during a cinematic that is not yet completed dies. Sylvanas asks players to please help avenge his death. This assassination was evident by the text the work of the Legion as Sylvanas asks you to take vengeance upon them. What we know is he's dead and his remains were burned so he wont be coming back.

But lets not elude the main thing here... ... ... ... THE PLAYER REFERS TO SYLVANAS WINDRUNNER AS WARCHIEF!!!!!!

Furthermore, Tirion is dead, Varian is dead, Vol'Jin is dead, Thrall does not appear after the battle at the Broken Shore not even at Vol'Jins funeral,

All hail the Warchief. ^^

 

[Chaosy]

While I am glad about that particular event I don't get why they accept her.
She was never liked in the past, it's not something you fix in a day.

Spoiler

Quite frankly I'd not trust Sylvanas to represent the horde well, at all.

But then again, if she did it would be quite out of character in my opinion.

 

[Razosh]

While I am glad about that particular event I don't get why they accept her.
She was never liked in the past, it's not something you fix in a day.

Spoiler

Quite frankly I'd not trust Sylvanas to represent the horde well, at all.

But then again, if she did it would be quite out of character in my opinion.

Spoilers

I agree it seems a bit odd though I hope we'll get a reason that is good. The only others who actually could assume the mantle of Warchief would be Varok and Baine. I assume they picked Sylvanas because she's the only one of those three that everyone knows.

 

[Chaosy]

Maybe it's some kind of political thing?

Spoiler

Make her the warchief in name only while someone else rules behind the scenes so to speak

Though it seems unlikely.

That's just an example, there are likely other political situations.

 

[Eagle XI]

Spoiler

meh, wouldnt be surprising at all if warchief happent to become an vengeful undead elf all orc clans instead only the warsong would revolt in the next expansion.

unless she turns them into, y'know skeletons.

 

[Chen]

The world is like...ending and I don't think they still care too much about politics.

...and Sylvanas is going hero mode because she wants to save her life maybe?

 

[Chaosy]

More likely to save her people if anything.
If she fucks up her factions as a whole will take the blame.

 

[Razosh]

I don't know why everyone just rides of Sylvanas as evil, I think she has layers and I believe that we're going to see that become evident with Alleria.

 

[Chen]

Last we saw of Sylvanas(MoP/War Crimes) she's haven't done something evil at all(after she got rejected by Vereesa, she just went hunting bears), probably she's keeping that "I serve the Horde." or is afraid of becoming another Lich King.

Major Spoilers

Velen had a son, Rakeesh, who apparently turned into a Man'ari somehow. In the Paladin Campaign Rakeesh invades Exodar and destroyed O'ros with a Fel Reaver and we fight him but Velen is like "I have seen this before hurr durr." and becomes hostile to us because he have seen a vision when his son was born, where he's holding a dying Man'ari Eredar and weeping over him.

He then called for Romuul to repair Exodar.

Spoiler

They're going home.

 

[Chaosy]

I don't know why everyone just rides of Sylvanas as evil, I think she has layers and I believe that we're going to see that become evident with Alleria.

Better get rid of my Sylvanas tattoo if that happens.

I think and hope everything reminding of "redemption" were thrown out the window in warcrimes.

 

[Razosh]

https://www.twitch.tv/warcraft/v/65650441?t=13m05s

I was sadly unable to find a youtube version of this video but the essentials are that this Thursday 2PM Pecific Time, 5 PM Eastern Time, 11 PM Central European Time and goodness knows when in Oceania a horde of Legion beta keys will be given away.

 

[Razosh]

Have you ever asked yourself "What's up with the Titans, what are they doing, what have their keepers been doing, do they have any use?" Well here's the answer:

 

[Chen]

Who got in to the beta? Cause I didn't. /sigh

 

[Razosh]

Legion theory time, SPOILER ALERT!

What do we see in this trailer? Vol'Jin has spoken to the Loa spirits, the gods of the trolls and he states "the spirits have granted me clarity" and he also says, "they whisper a name." Why is this important? Lets break down the lore, from his statement we can determine that the Loa he spoke with had the power of seeing into the future and they gave him the "clarity" he needed to elect Sylvanas the new Warchief of the Horde. We can also hear in his speech the contempt he views Sylvanas with and his distrust of her, lets also remember that Vol'Jin has seen what damage the wrong Warchief could do to the Horde and the matter of succession is one that Vol'Jin would not take easily, this is a decision that he has pondered A LOT. So why would Vol'Jin elect a woman that he despises and distrusts? The Loas have granted him a vision and this vision clearly changed his mind, but one thing sticks out, something that is quite mysterious, "they whisper a name." I understand if your first thought is that this name was Sylvanas, it was my first thought too, but there is another name a name which makes MUCH more sense. Lets think about it, if the Horde needed a talented general who knew how to fight demons why not pick Varok Saurfang, why Sylvanas? The short answer is that the Loas did not whisper Sylvanas, but rather Alleria. Think about it, Alleria returns at this time of all possible times, she has presumably been to Argus and knows more about the Legion than anyone else on Azeroth. We know that Alleria is comming back as stated at BlizzCon and lets think about what her reaction may be if seeing someone leading the Horde. If Varok, Thrall or another orc she would probably only remember the orcs as thralls of the Legion and refuse to co-operate with them, if a troll she'd probably refuse too due to her experiences with the Amani, if a goblin she'd probably distrust that person too, I mean who wouldn't distrust a goblin they're always out for their own best. Taurens and Pandarens she has no experience with, undeads don't exactly make the best first impression and the blood elves, while not guaranteed to have consumed fel-energy their glowing green eyes certainly seems to suggest it. After all blood elves consume any magical power they get their hands on to satisfy their desire for magical energy and considering that she has spent years traveling through demon worlds such as Outland and Niskara. (The only blood elves that don't consume magical energy are Death Knights as their desire to inflict agony on others overrides their addiction to magic, don't know if that's a better impression.) So then my question to you is, if none of the races could theoretically convince Alleria that the people of the Horde are worth protecting, who can? To me there's only one person who could convince Alleria to accept the Horde and the order halls who accept members of the Horde and that is her sister, Sylvanas.

That is what I think Vol'Jin meant when he said that the Loas had granted him clarity, they whispered to him the name of the key to stopping the Legion, Alleria. That is why Sylvanas must be WarChief for only she can convince Alleria to seek aid from the Horde, only Alleria can make Sylvanas into a better person and only Alleria knows how to stop the Legion and save Azeroth, but alone she can not succeed, she needs Sylvanas. Alleria and not Illidan is the centerpiece in this story and the true war is between her and Sargeras and since she needs Sylvanas, that is why I believe that Sylvanas and not someone else was sent on the path of becoming the Warchief of the Horde.

 

[Chaosy]

So basically the stars aligned and Sylvanas happened to save the horde at the Broken Shore which just happened to give Vol'in a false reason to make her Warchief.
I think you're wrong.

edit: additionally, why not tell them of the real reason?
Alleria may not like the horde, but she wont let Azeroth get destroyed. Thus she will help them.

Also, at one point Vol'jin says something among the lines: "Don't let the horde fall" or something. So his concern seem to be for the horde rather than inviting elfies to the party.

Lastly, there is nothing preventing Alleria from getting convinced by Sylvanas even if she 'merely' represents the Forsaken. Surely, the Warchief title means nothing to Alleria but the feelings for her sister does. The other leaders merely need to give Sylvanas freedom in that one mission, making her Warchief would not be needed.

 

[Razosh]

So basically the stars aligned and Sylvanas happened to save the horde at the Broken Shore which just happened to give Vol'in a false reason to make her Warchief.
I think you're wrong.

Saying that "the stars aligned" is a bit of an over-exaggeration as the Loas did encourage Vol'Jin to grant Sylvanas the title, as someone who is heavily connected to the voodoo there's no one whos opinion Vol'Jin respects as much as the Loas. Had he lived I think Vol'Jin would still have given Sylvanas the lead although he would have been more hesitant to do so. He still disliked and distrusted Sylvanas even as he gave her the title, I doubt he only listened to the visions of the Loa since he was high or something along those lines from the fell.

edit: additionally, why not tell them of the real reason?

He was on his death bed fighting the fel, he was in a race against time, he died in the middle of his speech and he left us with many unanswered question whether my theory is wrong or correct, he never specified what the Loas said, why Sylvanas and not Varok, Thrall or anyone else for example and that remains unanswered whatever the truth is. He clearly died before he could finish his speech.

Alleria may not like the horde, but she wont let Azeroth get destroyed. Thus she will help them.

Anyone who has read Wolfheart would say the same of Genn Greymane, yet when the Horde retreated he assumed the worst and thought that Sylvanas left them to die just for giggles. Jaina on top of that was the biggest supporter of peace prior to mists of pandaria. Just one event changed Jainas ability to see reason completely, you find it unlikely that Alleria, after fighting orcs for decades, loosing countless friends why would she trust the orcs.

Also, at one point Vol'jin says something among the lines: "Don't let the horde fall" or something. So his concern seem to be for the horde rather than inviting elfies to the party.

This is their entire speach:

Vol'Jin: Windrunner, come forward.

Sylvanas: Warchief.

Vol'Jin: The Loa spirits say death will claim me soon.

Sylvanas: In the end death claims us all, but the Horde will live on.

Vol'Jin: I have never trusted you, nor would I have ever imagined that in our darkest time, that you would be the one to save us. The spirits have granted me clarity, a vision, they whisper a name, many will not understand, but you must step out of the shadows and lead. You must be War... wchief...

Nowhere in that speech is anything remotely resembling "Don't let the horde fall" mentioned.

Lastly, there is nothing preventing Alleria from getting convinced by Sylvanas even if she 'merely' represents the Forsaken.

Ah, but there is, how many times has Sylvanas been invited to join the Horde affairs, once, during the Siege of Orgrimmar, and that was only because they needed her, and even then the role she was allowed to play was very minor. She is being kept out of all Horde business because its not only the Alliance that dislikes her, she is only an ally out of necessity. She needs to be in the center, otherwise the people in the center will keep her out.

Surely, the Warchief title means nothing to Alleria but the feelings for her sister does.

That's true, but if the only sources on Sylvanas would be other people than Sylvanas, such as Vereesa then she would get a very unreal depiction of who her sister was.

The other leaders merely need to give Sylvanas freedom in that one mission, making her Warchief would not be needed.

And why would they give her that autonomy? They have never given it to her earlier, and before you say "the threat will unite all" lets remember that it is the bigotry between the Horde and the Alliance that creates the Order Halls, why would the Horde throw away their bigotry towards Sylvanas if they wont throw it away for the Alliance?

EDIT: Kudos by the way, your post has definitely shaken the legitimacy of my theory, but I'm not quite convinced just yet that it is less reasonable than yours.

 

[Chaosy]

He was on his death bed fighting the fel, he was in a race against time

Not really. He spoke several sentences, had could easily have changed "you must step out of the shadows and lead as warchief" to "you must convince Alleria to join us.."
Not to mention the pre-talk about his well being, and phrases like "Ah, Wildrunner", " step forward", "I never trusted you, bla bla"

Anyone who has read Wolfheart would say the same of Genn Greymane, yet when the Horde retreated he assumed the worst and thought that Sylvanas left them to die just for giggles. Jaina on top of that was the biggest supporter of peace prior to mists of pandaria. Just one event changed Jainas ability to see reason completely, you find it unlikely that Alleria, after fighting orcs for decades, loosing countless friends why would she trust the orcs.

She does not have to trust them, nor like them. Merely accept that the horde is needed for Azeorth's survival.
Sylvanas should be a positive factor as well, probably.

This is their entire speach:

I meant on the Broken shore, when Sylvanas picked him onto her horse.

edit: I just checked, he said "Do not let the horde die this day."
Which means that he was considering to make her Warchief even then, before he had this vision.

Ah, but there is, how many times has Sylvanas been invited to join the Horde affairs, once, during the Siege of Orgrimmar, and that was only because they needed her, and even then the role she was allowed to play was very minor. She is being kept out of all Horde business because its not only the Alliance that dislikes her, she is only an ally out of necessity. She needs to be in the center, otherwise the people in the center will keep her out.

And why would they give her that autonomy? They have never given it to her earlier, and before you say "the threat will unite all" lets remember that it is the bigotry between the Horde and the Alliance that creates the Order Halls, why would the Horde throw away their bigotry towards Sylvanas if they wont throw it away for the Alliance?

If she can get accepted as Warchief, she can obviously be trusted to have authority in this one area. Especially if they trust Vol'jin's supposed vision to be true and recognize that Alleria is needed..
If only Vol'jin had changed his words.

 

[Razosh]

Alright you're right, that is probably not the case, although there are some flaws in your logic. Anyhow for any of you interested here are all the new cinematics.

MMO-Champion - Pre-Expansion Patch Cinematics, August 8 Hotfixes, Level 100 Boost, Blue Posts

 

[Lordkoon]

So... Where is that little fcker Wrathion helping in the fight against the legion? Considering he concocted a whole expansion and is the reason for that mess in the first place.

 

[Chaosy]

Possesed by the old gods like his father.

 

[neven1]

Clearly the fight against the Legion is going great since the Legion still hasn't left the isles as far as i'm aware so this invasion is by far the weakest probably.

 

[pyf]

Nobody mentions this expansion goes live today?

According to Fortune.com, Legion "may be seen as an index of the viability of subscription-based games as a whole":
With New Warcraft Expansion, Blizzard Aims to Revive a Golden Goose

 

[neven1]

Ah who cares.There is no way another expansion is going to save wow.Problem with wow is it's own formula.

Kill to get better gear so you can kill better so you can get better gear.People are starting to notice it and they are sick paying real money to farm like pigs.

 

[fladdermasken]

Kill to get better gear so you can kill better so you can get better gear.People are starting to notice it and they are sick paying real money to farm like pigs.

People noticed it pretty much from the first release. What you're describing is pretty much every MMORPG on the market. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you don't like MMORPGs, playing World of Warcraft is a terrible idea.

 

[pyf]

Ah who cares.There is no way another expansion is going to save wow.Problem with wow is it's own formula.

Blizzard cares. Therefore we should care too.

Fortune.com points out, WoW brought in more than 50% of Blizzard’s revenue until last year. They also say, some of the other remaining MMOs have shifted to a freemium model used by the most popular mobile games.

Some interesting ideas about what makes a WoW expansion a worthwhile one:
First impressions of World of Warcraft: Legion, part one

Kill to get better gear so you can kill better so you can get better gear.People are starting to notice it and they are sick paying real money to farm like pigs.

The Diablo formula since 1996.

 

[neven1]

Blizzard cares. Therefore we should care too.

Fortune.com points out, WoW brought in more than 50% of Blizzard’s revenue until last year. They also say, some of the other remaining MMOs have shifted to a freemium model used by the most popular mobile games.

Some interesting ideas about what makes a WoW expansion a worthwhile one:
First impressions of World of Warcraft: Legion, part one



The Diablo formula since 1996.

My bad i meant to say who cares about making quality game.I understand that WoW brings money but i meant why would blizzard actually bother making good quality games when they can make games that will sell anyway regardless or quality.

Let me give you an example of what i mean.Does Leafyishere produces good quality videos?No of course not they are just trash videos where he puts certain content that he knows people will click.You mention word cringe in your title and throw some mainstream stuff in there and boom you get views like crazy.

People talk about feminism like it is next coming of christ yet it is most boring and tedious disccusion reasonable person would want to have.

hope i made my point clear

 

[pyf]

Does one buy an MMO once and for all, or does one subscribe monthly to it as long as one wishes to?
They should make good quality MMOs because of that imho.

However, Blizzard has probably understood by now, they do not need to make blockbuster video games in order to achieve commercial success. But their games still have to be good. I can hardly imagine how much money was wasted on Titan...

Do you have to pay for a video in Leafyishere in order to view it? I am unfamiliar with that.

hope i made my point clear

I am perplexed about the feminism part.

 

[neven1]

I can't continue to explain if you dont tell me what is it that you don't understand.

leafy and feminism point was.Put whats popular and people will go for it not because it is good it's because it's popular.That is how people's brain works.People who still play wow are playing because they havent yet realized that diablo logic is stupid.

It's like a monkey presses a button and candy bar appears but after that no matter how much time he press the same button the candy bar wont appear.So it will take him long time to get himself out of that loop.Same for wow players.

 

[pyf]

This time I understood, by searching for that LeafyIsHere stuff. omg, if I clicked on one of those links, I would then have to clean my mouse cursor for sure

Seems things were not that way when he first launched his YouTube channel, since it was first about Fallout 3 and Minecraft gameplay:
LeafyIsHere

I had first thought the feminism part of your post was related to Legion, which was kinda puzzling.



Haha, this all reminds me of my "addiction" to a few video games a long time ago

Hidden

First, the Sims 1. A friend gave it to me (fyi, someone else already gave it to him), I played it obsessively, in order to discover some kind of major goal to achieve in it. After much experimenting leading to nothing fullfilling, I finally decided to earn §15,000 in order to buy the Super-Robot. After that, I considered I had beaten the game. I then gave it to family members, with no regret since they enjoyed it very much.

Diablo I was given to me too (same source, same origin). Game felt boring at first (uninteresting random dungeons); therefore I did not play it at all for months. Then one day all of a sudden I got hooked for absolutely no reason at all. I finished it with the Sorcerer. Game mechanics were boring and silly and I was fully aware of it. After I beat the game, I gave it too to someone as a thank you.

Diablo II was Diablo with running added, leading to more dynamism at least. Same silly game mechanics with uninteresting random landscapes/caves, but I played it anyway. Shops and gold made no sense, since you get the best items by easy killing. Replaying the game on intermediate difficulty level proved to be stupid, because the game spams a ridiculous amount of enemies, and makes no sense then. I did not beat it on intermediate difficulty level, and I never played LoD, even though I do own it. I still have that Necromancer savegame somewhere. I still own the game.

 

[neven1]

I know what you mean ;p

 

[Razosh]

WoW has been the same thing since Vanilla with different coats of paint, expecting it to change too much over the course of 1 expansion is like thinking that the sun might not appear in the sky next morning.

 

[Lordkoon]

Watching all the ingame cinematics I feel they are a lot less intense than the ''all-out-war on Draenor'' WOD had. The best ones were the Broken Shore. I was expecting Illidan or Guldan (apart from the bs ones) to appear in at least one cinematic. I guess we will see them next year when the raid with Guldan opens. /meh

 

[Razosh]

SPOILER ALERT!

Watching all the ingame cinematics I feel they are a lot less intense than the ''all-out-war on Draenor'' WOD had. The best ones were the Broken Shore. I was expecting Illidan or Guldan (apart from the bs ones) to appear in at least one cinematic. I guess we will see them next year when the raid with Guldan opens. /meh

Well at least it's characters I care more about, this one had me crying out in anger.

Although to be fair Gul'Dan will die in this patch which will be amazing, they really milked his character for all he was worth. (And more...)

 

[neven1]

They milked all the characters ;p