Celestium Mapping Tournament

[Ardnived]

Celestium Mapping Tournament (Greatly Updated!)

Celestium Mapping Tournament

This is the Big one the really General all over Contest for any map.

Basically there's the Paired Mapping Contest and I've seen a few other suggestions and such but all of these mapping contest are really for quite short projects.

I've found and seen that many a map will take well over a month... two months... three or even a year.

- The themes are fairly loose
- It's meant to allow for larger more abitious projects (thus the larger timespans)
- No Team size limits of requirements, however rewards will be divided.
- Judging will be done by pre-designating judges and particiapnts only, not the public (to avoid spamming)

What I'm trying to allow for here is a contest for larger more indepth epic maps, and also for the slower people. In things with such a small time limit you don't get too see as much of a creative aspect.

- Rules
- Themes
- Deadlines and Time Limits
- Judging
- Prizes

__________
Rules:

• No submission may violate any Hive Workshop site rule.
• You must not release the map prior to the start of the Tournament. Relatively closed BETA testing, once it has been started, is allowed.
• All the entries must be unprotected so that the triggers and scripts can be looked at.
• All multiplayer maps must be under 4mb, so they are playable on b.net. Having it under 2mb is recommended.
• You must post your entry before the deadline expires and attach it to a post (You should pm a judge aswell to ensure that your map is noticed).
• You may not submit more than one map per person. We only want your best!
• Any stolen work will be disqualified. (This does not limit more severe punishments at the discretion of mods).
• No entry may be submitted more than a month before the deadline (simply for organizational issues).
• The reward will be divide up equally between all members of a team.

__________
Themes:
Now this is one of the main things I'm adding, oppose to the original. I have finally buckled down and decided to put themes although I've tried to keep them quite loose but still similiar.

However though if an admin is willing to accept this without the themes I am all for it, I would much rather use my original idea with few limitation which means people can use their own orignal Ideas a lot more.

The theme will change as with all contests from contest to contest. However they will be what I perceive to be quite broad categories, they will be one of the following ones:

Battlefront:
These are the maps where you tend to be a war of sorts where units will continiously spawn and attack the enemies, whether you are controlling a hero or a builder or just a unit.
Examples: AoS, Tech Wars, Civ Wars, Hero Wars, Battleships, etc.

Arena:
You will almost always only control of a single hero and if you don't you like wont control more than 2 or 3 units. It will often involve farming to level up or get gold, and there won't usually be any computer controlled players (That does not include creeps).
Examples: Angel Arena, HeroCraft, Paintball, Tree Tag, Orc Gladiators, Legendary Heroes, SpellCraft, etc.

Defense:
This will involve you surviving against something, whether it be with heroes, or towers, or units. You may be able to squeeze survival maps into this if you can convince a judge to allow it.
Examples: Wintermaul, Power Towers TD, Line Tower Defense, Castle Defense, Hero Line Defense, 300, etc.

Adventure:
99% of the time this will be a hero map, roleplaying maps especially. You wont usually linger in one location, you'll always have a goal to complete, a boss to go kill, a monster to farm. Usually there will be a story, like in RPGs. Whether or not the story is set or free.
Examples: ORPGs, RPGs, LotR, Survivals, LOAP, etc.

Strategy:
Mostly Altered melees, or other games where you control small or large groups of units, there will usually be a great element of planning and strategy. Often teamwork will also be a great factor.
Examples: Paintball, Warcraft 2, Starcraft 2, Civilization, Spore Tribes, Risk, City Builder, Ant Builder, Control point Battles, etc.

Sprawlers:
These are those maps where you just have TONS of units, like units left and right, you'll likely have a masser. Often you will have heroes to spice it up, but not always. Your units also will usually be upgradeable, and you'll probably have a base to protect.
Examples: Zone Control, Golems, Evolves, Footmen Frenzy, etc.

Although there are these categories often maps will fit in them if even they don't at first seem like it. So what I'm saying is we are fleibe if you can convince the judge that this fits in then you can definetely put your map idea. But check with a judge before you start on your map!

I listed all the types I could think of if anyone can think of any more types of maps please tell me so I can fit it into a category or create a new category.

Maps can overlap and fit into multiple categories.

And remember if you have your own original Idea it will probably fit into one of these categories just check with a judge first and you can get started.

Other categories may be used later when the contest is actually running, this is mostly just to give you an Idea.


__________
Deadlines and Time Limits:
The Time limits on the creation of your map will vary alone witht he theme sometimes it will be longer and sometimes shorter to provide a variety, and some map types take more work than others and this too will reflect that.


__________
Judging:

• 25% Participant Rating
• 75% Judges

Participants means people who submitted maps, this is too prevent public spamming, and also get the particiapnts a little more involved. They may rate the maps anyway they like, but their final rating for each map should be out of 10.

The Judges however will use the following method:

Concept: (10 Points)
Maybe the map didn't turn out too well but how was the idea, do you think you or someone else could make a great map with this? Did the idea stand out?
Terrain: (7 Points)
How was the terrain? Was there a lot of detail? Did it add another element to the game with interesting strategies and such? or did it just blend in witht he background and sorta seem non-existant? Was it suitable for the map?
Creativity: (10 Points)
This aspect will vary depending on what type of map it is, eg. if it's a Campaign then you would probably measuring the quality of the Story and Cinematics, if it was an arena you would be measuring the originality of the spells and heroes, if it was TD the system(is it just another mass tower mazing map or is it awesome like Power Towers), etc.
Triggers: (12 Points)
Were the triggers used in the map good, or were they made badly. Were memory leaks fixed, or were they not?
Overall: (10 Points)
This is basically how fun was the map maybe the Terrain was awesome but did it go well with the rest of the map? Did everything mesh? And was it polished off nicely?

For a Total of 50 Points per judge

Penalties/Bonuses: (+/- 10 Points)
The Judge may award or penalize the map by a maximum of 10 points eitherway. This is for those little things that may not effect the gameplay so much but can still be somewhat important. For Example: "Frequent Grammatical Errors -2 Points", or "Model artists are uncredited - 9 Points", or "Help Section Included +4 Points". However the amount of points deducted or awarded is entirely dependant on the judge.


Then to find each contestant's final score you use this formula:

Judge1Score + Judge2Score + Judge3Score + ParticipantRatingAverage x 5 = YourFinalScore

For a Final Score out of 200.


__________
Prizes:
This is subject to change but here are some estimates of what I would give, based on the prizes of other contests:
1st Place: An Award Icon and 60 reputation.
3rd Place: 40 reputation.
2nd Place: 20 reputation.


-----------------------------------

Remember! nothing is set in stone there is always room to accomodate.

Support The Celestium Tournament! Post Below!
.

 

[Dark Hunter1357]

I will enter this contest

 

[Tyrael_IM]

me too

nice idea,and offering the users the possibility to make a map after their own ideas its a great contest...
I will enter the contest with both ROC and TFT versions of my map )(Spore V2 by Putza) -(putza= my battle net nick)

 

[Direfury]

Ohh this is going to be fun.

 

[DesKaladA]

ok let me add some sanaty to this

"There is no limit or minimum to the amount of people that may work on a map/campaign" NO too many people will team up to get a reward make a max like 3 or 4



Judge1Score*3 + Judge2Score*3 +*3 Judge3Score*3 + (PublicPollScore% ) = YourFinalScore

this is the right alorithim to use

 

[Ardnived]

ok let me add some sanaty to this

"There is no limit or minimum to the amount of people that may work on a map/campaign" NO too many people will team up to get a reward make a max like 3 or 4



Judge1Score*3 + Judge2Score*3 +*3 Judge3Score*3 + (PublicPollScore% ) = YourFinalScore

this is the right alorithim to use

Yes you are probably right I wanted to allow for larger projects (like the ones tha toften involve big teams) but in the interest of fairness Ill put a 5 person limit.

Though If I was a judge I would give bonur points for doing it with less people and maybe penalties for extremely high groups.


I don't know what you mean by the second thing

 

[DesKaladA]

your algortim is going to cause masave amounts of poll spam

 

[Ardnived]

still not getting you, can't poeple only vote once?

 

[DesKaladA]

mulit accounts

nuffsaid

 

[Ardnived]

Ah well at the recommendation of Dr. SuperGood and DesKaladA, I've gone back to my original judging of 25% - 75%

@ Revellion, Dark Hunter, and Tyrael
Hopefuly it will be approoved

 

[PurgeandFire]

mulit accounts

nuffsaid

Meh, if someone is a mod of that forum, they can see the IP adresses. It is just under their damn name.

Lol... I love that smiley.

But ANYWHO, I am still questioning the themes and stuff, but I think the setup is pretty good. I didn't read all of it though.

 

[Ardnived]

there is no theme, that was one of the main things about it. To allow people to use their own original Ideas.

I feel better with 75% - 25% though

 

[Dark Hunter1357]

I will probably make the map alone. My clan is bisy working on anader map.

 

[donut3.5]

This mapping contest seems rather pointless. No theme, no limits, pretty much no rules. How can you compare a Hero based map to a Tower Defense?
Answer: You can't without bias, as I know some people are strongly biased against tower defenses, some against hero arenas, some against single player, multiplayer, the cinematic, the grandiose campaign, the standard melee map, etc etc, and then there are those biased for each style.
All in all, it will turn into a popularity contest, whether its based on the map or the entrants, and well, if you want that, go check out battle.net and go play a DotA.
Also: 5 people? Terrible idea. Have a set amount of people, don't allow variation. Otherwise the prize reputation will be ridiculous (giving out huge amounts for a group of five, and 1/5th of that for a single individual), and if you split it up, then the one person team will get a ridiculous amount where as the individuals in the group will get near jack for all their effort.
Additionally, way too much time. You're planning for an overly ambitious project. Depending on the map, it can be done in a week and be very well made, a month, or years. Then again it goes back to the retarded idea of no theme and no map style. It tosses everything out of proportion, deadline, quality, creativity, and everything included.
As a small note: You contradict yourself. You say:

However it is unlikely that this contest would work as a one time thing, I more intend it as a contest that you would spend months preparing for, and if you don't meet the deadline well there's always next time, add some more stuff, make that model you had wanted to add but didn't have the time, and submit it in the next one.

then you say:

You are NOT allowed to use any work used in a previous contest. You must submit a new and original piece for the contest.

If you had applied common sense, you would see that the work rolled over WOULD be work from previous contests.
As DesKalada pointed out, your algorithm is broken, giving a score possible of >200 if there are more than 50 votes (considering the massiveness you plan for this contest, will be likely).
Another thing I didn't like is the mass map submitting. What this does is make the poll heavily bent in their favor, giving them a higher chance to win, as well as making a humongous pain in the ass for the judges who must evaluate every map.

If you didn't care to read the whole thing, here's the concluding few points:
-Too limitless, destroys the point of competition and makes it harder for everybody.
-Rules and grading is broken.
My suggestions:
-Limit things more to the theme or map style.
-Fix some rules, apply common sense.
-All in all, take this back to the drawing board. I see this as a good start, but is way too broken IMO at the current moment.
--donut3.5--

 

[Dark Hunter1357]

I think that this that there is no theme is good, because judges will be judging the creativity of the map and after that everythink else. And the creator will say what style is the map.

 

[Ardnived]

This mapping contest seems rather pointless. No theme, no limits, pretty much no rules. How can you compare a Hero based map to a Tower Defense?
Answer: You can't without bias, as I know some people are strongly biased against tower defenses, some against hero arenas, some against single player, multiplayer, the cinematic, the grandiose campaign, the standard melee map, etc etc, and then there are those biased for each style.
All in all, it will turn into a popularity contest, whether its based on the map or the entrants, and well, if you want that, go check out battle.net and go play a DotA.
Also: 5 people? Terrible idea. Have a set amount of people, don't allow variation. Otherwise the prize reputation will be ridiculous (giving out huge amounts for a group of five, and 1/5th of that for a single individual), and if you split it up, then the one person team will get a ridiculous amount where as the individuals in the group will get near jack for all their effort.
Additionally, way too much time. You're planning for an overly ambitious project. Depending on the map, it can be done in a week and be very well made, a month, or years. Then again it goes back to the retarded idea of no theme and no map style. It tosses everything out of proportion, deadline, quality, creativity, and everything included.
As a small note: You contradict yourself. You say:

then you say:

If you had applied common sense, you would see that the work rolled over WOULD be work from previous contests.
As DesKalada pointed out, your algorithm is broken, giving a score possible of >200 if there are more than 50 votes (considering the massiveness you plan for this contest, will be likely).
Another thing I didn't like is the mass map submitting. What this does is make the poll heavily bent in their favor, giving them a higher chance to win, as well as making a humongous pain in the ass for the judges who must evaluate every map.

If you didn't care to read the whole thing, here's the concluding few points:
-Too limitless, destroys the point of competition and makes it harder for everybody.
-Rules and grading is broken.
My suggestions:
-Limit things more to the theme or map style.
-Fix some rules, apply common sense.
-All in all, take this back to the drawing board. I see this as a good start, but is way too broken IMO at the current moment.
--donut3.5--

To the Part where you say I contridict myself It don't think so because I don't see any work doneas work done specifically for this contest it's more of you've made this great map why don't you submit it. I don't want people to be making the map solely so they can submit it to this contest, and I feel that justifies the time limit, once again I simply put that one month thing so people don't submit extremely popular maps that have been around for a while. Though I have been wondering whether6 months is too long.

You say it rolls over but the only real point to that rule is that you haven't used maps that have been popularized by other contests.

For the judging part I changed the original post to suit what deskalada and DSG suggested... to a degree, I think tripling each judges weight is a bit extreme. Also I don't think you read it because it cleary says

All the Public Rating scores will then be averaged for the final score.

So the fact of there being more than 50 votes would be irrelevent.


As for the no limit on submissions that you may be right if the contest turns out to be quite popular as I would hope then it would be quoite a strain on the judges.


What I want is to allow for very very well made maps I want people to take their time when making the map, and allow for slower people to submit maps aswell. This is the sort of contest where you enter your masterpiece that you've been working on for ten years (a bit of an exxageration but you get the point)


For the Team part I'm not entirely sure what you are saying is your issue with the prizes, cause i sorta see your point there, but not with some other things you seem to say.


With the right kind of judges you can get fairly balanced judging even for the much disliked map styles. I don't think it would be too much of an issue if you pick the judges with some degree of care, I know I can judge in that manner.


Dark Hunter also makes a good point.

Maybe I haven't been clear enough in my original post as I find a good chunk f the critisizm I have been getting (not here in chat) has been from misunderstanding what I was saying.


The I think I have addressed everything. If not says so please
.

 

[Hoernchen]

Ok, If we have we have this contest I'll join, but you will need to change a slight bit if you want the mods to approve this thing.

A good start would be to change rules a bit like:

-Maps have to stick to a number of Themes, and should disclude Singleplayer, Minigame, Loap, Cinematic, Vampirism and such maps, as these maps aren't really fit for such a huge contest.
-Maybe only give rep to the submitter of the map, noone will work on a map in a team if they know that only one person will get the prize.
-Only submit one map per contestant, this shouldn't be a show-us-20-maps contest, we only want to see the best map!
-Maybe have only contestants being able to vote, this will make voters care more and of course contestants can't vote themselves of course.
-I strongly suggest limiting the map types to a max of 7 themes like:
AoS, Arena, Strategy, Tech Wars, Survival, Altered Melee, Tower Defense.
-Is it really fair to allow maps that have been created 6 months ago, but not older maps, some people might be lucky and have started just 5 months ago with a good map while others started theirs just 7 months before and have to start a new one...

 

[Dark Hunter1357]

-Maybe have only contestants being able to vote, this will make voters care more and of course contestants can't vote themselves of course.
I dont think this is a good idea.
-I strongly suggest limiting the map types to a max of 7 themes like:
AoS, Arena, Strategy, Tech Wars, Survival, Altered Melee, Tower Defense.
I agree as Strategy can include a lot of creativity.

 

[Ardnived]

Ok, If we have we have this contest I'll join, but you will need to change a slight bit if you want the mods to approve this thing.

A good start would be to change rules a bit like:

-Maps have to stick to a number of Themes, and should disclude Singleplayer, Minigame, Loap, Cinematic, Vampirism and such maps, as these maps aren't really fit for such a huge contest.

You may be right however I think Singleplayer should be allowed.

-Maybe only give rep to the submitter of the map, noone will work on a map in a team if they know that only one person will get the prize.

That sounds like a quite resonable solution. I will change that rule.

-Only submit one map per contestant, this shouldn't be a show-us-20-maps contest, we only want to see the best map!

I have come to agree with you. That will also be changed right after I make this post

-Maybe have only contestants being able to vote, this will make voters care more and of course contestants can't vote themselves of course.

Hmm that sounds like a good Idea too, however would have to decide whether it would be a voting or a rating, I'm kind aleaning towards rating.

-I strongly suggest limiting the map types to a max of 7 themes like:
AoS, Arena, Strategy, Tech Wars, Survival, Altered Melee, Tower Defense.

I don't really agree, what purpose would it serve to only limit it to these styles? What I wanted was where people can make their own original Idea's and most maps will fit under these categories but I still don't really see the purpose

-Is it really fair to allow maps that have been created 6 months ago, but not older maps, some people might be lucky and have started just 5 months ago with a good map while others started theirs just 7 months before and have to start a new one...

Once again you have misunderstood me, I said completed. The rule is to prevent already released and popular maps from entering, like... DOTA or Wintermaul, or something.

 

[Fulla]

Don't particularly see much point to this contest, other than perhaps give ppl a little bit more motivation to complete their projects.
I think the pairsed mapping contests are the best, & would be nice if they did more things like this, similiar to the paired create a lcustom ladder Hero like on wc3camp in teams of 2.

So, so long you haven't released your map yet, excluding beta's you could enter it if you'd started on it pre NOW/When contest starts?

 

[Hoernchen]

Hmm that sounds like a good Idea too, however would have to decide whether it would be a voting or a rating, I'm kind aleaning towards rating.

Well this point is irrelevant as long as this contest doesn't get approved, however it will remove the possibility of friends and fans voting for a person, thus taking away the bonus of popularity.

I don't really agree, what purpose would it serve to only limit it to these styles? What I wanted was where people can make their own original Idea's and most maps will fit under these categories but I still don't really see the purpose.

Well, I only gave this as an example, however having a list of about maybe 15 map types would help the restrictions and other map types/ideas would then have to be submitted to the moderators for approval or denial.

Once again you have misunderstood me, I said completed. The rule is to prevent already released and popular maps from entering, like... DOTA or Wintermaul, or something.

Well, I am glad that you mean this, because I completely agree and it will motivate a lot of people to finally finish their maps.

 

[Ardnived]

Don't particularly see much point to this contest, other than perhaps give ppl a little bit more motivation to complete their projects.
I think the pairsed mapping contests are the best, & would be nice if they did more things like this, similiar to the paired create a lcustom ladder Hero like on wc3camp in teams of 2.

So, so long you haven't released your map yet, excluding beta's you could enter it if you'd started on it pre NOW/When contest starts?

Well we all have different interests, we should try to service everyone including those who like contests that aren't as rule and themed as the paried-mapping contest.

Could you rephrase that second part, I'm not sure quite what you are saying but it doesn't sound like you understand what I was saying.

Well this point is irrelevant as long as this contest doesn't get approved, however it will remove the possibility of friends and fans voting for a person, thus taking away the bonus of popularity.

Hmm that's good point. But it's all relevant because if I improove the specifications of the contests it makes it more likely that it will be accepted, I'm sure there's atleast one admin that thinks more differently from donut3.5

Well, I only gave this as an example, however having a list of about maybe 15 map types would help the restrictions and other map types/ideas would then have to be submitted to the moderators for approval or denial.

Ah okay.

Well, I am glad that you mean this, because I completely agree and it will motivate a lot of people to finally finish their maps.

Good Good
.

 

[donut3.5]

I think my main issue with this is it seems to casual. It just seems like the resource section with reputation involved. You don't really have to stretch your creativity bounds to fit a style, or challenge yourself in that way, which I think is the main point of contests, to test how well you can capture a certain style creatively.
--donut3.5--

 

[Ardnived]

Hmmm I see your point. But thats not all contests are about, it's also about measuring your talent against others and having a goal to work towards be it winning the contest or just finishing your map for once.


This is sort of a side note however if you look at the wikipedia definition it says: "Humans compete for attention, wealth, prestige, and fame. Competition gives incentives for self improvement."


Though in the end not all contests are the same, we should allow for different varieties of contests, maybe you don't like it, but others do.

 

[~Void~]

If this is going to be like a year-long contest... serious rep awards should be put in place...

 

[Ardnived]

mhm, I agree. Mod/admins will decide though... probably

 

[Fulla]

My question basically was:

I've already started on an AoS project on & off, over past few weeks/months but I'm still pre-beta, and long before an official release.
Would I be permitted to enter?

===

Personally I think that having multiple mapping contest would cause a clash, its better to just have one,
The paired mapping contest could even be increased to allow 2-3 members.

 

[Ardnived]

yes, the rule isn't about starting its about finishing aslong as you finishing of the first post-BETA release so aslong as you finish the map before the deadline.

 

[Ardnived]

-Bump-

Obviously there is still some problem here other than some people's difference of opinion like donut3.5 or Fulla, otherwise the contest would be accepted so could someone tell me what it is so I can endeavour to fix it.

Or if on the other hand the only problem is the difference of opinion (although It seems a lot more people have posted who agree regardless of how fleeting their post) could someone tell me so. Please.

 

[donut3.5]

It's likely that either an administrator has not seen this yet, or disagrees with the informality of this contest. Our contests seem to be more structured, and this one lacks structure almost entirely, so this contest's approval seems very doubtful to me. I'm not really speaking from a personal opinion, but rather how the Hive's contests work.
--donut3.5--

 

[Ardnived]

oh I was under the assumption that you were the guy in charge here... in this case then, do any of the admins even look at the Contest Submission, I doubt one has made any posts in the past month.

Well if they have seen it I would have appreciated them saying so, just so I can either try and fix it or give up.

 

[donut3.5]

I run a contest, but I don't pick and choose which one's get approved. If you want, you can PM an administator (Wolverabid, Bob27, Archian, Dr Super Good, Samuraid, or Ralle) to get their attention, however they are busy people and might not respond immediately.
--donut3.5--

 

[Ardnived]

I see, DSG had a look at it made a few suggestions (via chat) I made some modifications. Maybe ill do that.

 

[emperor_d3st]

Well, first there is some contradiction:

You may not submit more than one map per person. We only want your best!

Then you say:

- You may submit as many maps as you like, however in the spirit of allowing others a chance, you can't have more than one map in the top three (the winning range), so if you win first place all your other maps will be dismissed

In my opinion 6 month is a huge timespan. Well, nothing else to add, I think.

 

[Ardnived]

oh sry I simply forgot to remove the second rule when I changed the first.

As for the six month timespan, this seems to be a reoccurring problem with some people. I want this contest to allow for big big projects, ambitious ones that you probably wouldn't be able to put in a shorter timespan, and also to allow a chance for slower map makers.

 

[emperor_d3st]

I understand what you want with the 6 months timespan, but even for a slow project 6 months is a huge timespan. Well at least that's my opinion.

 

[Ardnived]

I guess maybe but actually thats more of just a limit to make sure people don't submit really old maps, I mean I spend quite a while working on my maps... it seems like it really depends on your experience how fast you can do. In anycase I wanted to insure you wouldn't feel rushed at all and you can do it at you leisure, adding every little detail to make it just that much better.

Maybe I should shorten it, however I'm not sure if you got this or not but it just can't be realeased publicly before 6 months before the judging, actually maybe I should change it so it can't be released at all (publicly) before you submit it... in hind sight it doesn't seem like such a good idea.

 

[Ardnived]

Bump and Rule Modifications

*Bump*

Still waiting for an admin reponse


Rules Modified:

• The map must have been completed no earlier than 6 months before the deadline. If it is difficult to determine the completion date of the map, it may be disqualified at the judges' descretion. In this case completion rather refers to the first time it is released in a non-BETA version.
• You are NOT allowed to use any work submitted in a previous contest. You must submit a new and original piece for the contest.
• You must submit a new and original piece for the contest. This means that this must be the first released version of the map (does not include BETA versions).

• This must be the first public release of your map.

I'm also thinking about changing the judging as suggested by Dark Hunter suggested so that it is the judges and the contestants that are making the decision, ofcourse each contestant would not be judging themselves.

 

[Fulla]

Ok, the following I think would take this tournament 10 times better.

Suggestions:

• Teams - Allow ppl to formup teams & work together. The previous paired mapping contests have both forced & restricted ppl into pairs/teams of 2.
  When ppl can get together/form up teams, you'll definetly get more & more involved as well as making the contest alot more fun.
• Beta's?? - Once contest starts, allow ppl to instantly make a thread for their project where they can begin to release versions for feedback & playtesting.
  There really shouldn't be any restrictions on how much you release as hardworking team may go well beyond the initial beta stage.
• 6 months - Its just simply to long. Realistically, with 6 months, ppl probably won't even start their projects iuntil there's a few months left anyways.
• 3 months - This would alot better & ideal for keeping ppl on the ball, making them start straight away & focused on the deadline.
  Lets say it started on June 1st & ended September 1st, it right along the summer holidays with bundles of time.

Also thought I'd mention, I'd definetly enter this, already have a map in mind

 

[Ardnived]

Did you not read the update I just posted? I changed it so that the only time restriction was that this must be the first public release, meaning it can't have been released publicly before the start of the contest.

Also yuou can do teams I am all for teams but to make it fair for prize winners I made it (mostly on the suggestion of others) so that only the submitter gets the prize, if you think otherise, I am all for it if you can think of a way to keep it fair and credit them all equally, cause I don't want to force people into teams

 

[Fulla]

Did you not read the update I just posted? I changed it so that the only time restriction was that this must be the first public release, meaning it can't have been released publicly before the start of the contest.

hmm...

This must be the first public release of your map.

This implies that your not allowed to release it onto sites & forums etc. to gather feedback?
Should change it to, one of these two:
- Must not have started the project prior the tournament
- Must not have released your project prior the tournament

Also yuou can do teams I am all for teams but to make it fair for prize winners I made it (mostly on the suggestion of others) so that only the submitter gets the prize, if you think otherise, I am all for it if you can think of a way to keep it fair and credit them all equally, cause I don't want to force people into teams

Well I said ALLOW ppl to form teams if they wish, nobody's forced.
To make it fair simply share out the rep price amongst the number of team members. So a solo guy atleast has atleast something to look forward to.
The Icon Prize ofcourse should just go to every team member.

===

You didn't comment at all on the time, 6 months is really to long.

 

[Ardnived]

I believe you are right I will change the wording to:
- Must not have released your project prior the tournament


As for teams I don't remember the exact arguement but what you are suggesting is what I originally did, I changed it bcause some people thought it was unfair because a group of people could just group up make a much better map (not neccesarily but usually) and then almost auitomatically get the prize and share it up.

EDIT: My mistake it was actually the opposite here is what was said

the prize reputation will be ridiculous (giving out huge amounts for a group of five, and 1/5th of that for a single individual), and if you split it up, then the one person team will get a ridiculous amount where as the individuals in the group will get near jack for all their effort.

-Maybe only give rep to the submitter of the map, noone will work on a map in a team if they know that only one person will get the prize.

if you still think it would be better to divide up the rep then we'll see

 

[Fulla]

Ok I see the points/their perspective, but I disagree & heres why:

the prize reputation will be ridiculous (giving out huge amounts for a group of five, and 1/5th of that for a single individual), and if you split it up, then the one person team will get a ridiculous amount where as the individuals in the group will get near jack for all their effort.

Its just rep.. its no big deal, but come on lets think about this:

- Rewards small teams or a solo guy for their hard work & commitment in winning the tournament.
- Penalizes ppl who form up large teams, meaning each ppl does less work in order to win.

Isn't that perfect & fair?

A solo guy gets 50 rep if he wins
A team of 2 get 25 rep each.

So atleast now:
- Not just about who forms the biggest team
- Ppl are encouraged to split up in more smaller teams, so we get more entries, more competition & overall its more exciting
- Ppl who prefer to work alone, will feel their is a reason to enter, atleast there is a stronger pull & motivation for it, even if they see others forming up into large teams.

Maybe only give rep to the submitter of the map.

That would be horrendous. You put in some hard work for a contest and get nothing in return, all because the other guy submitted it?

noone will work on a map in a team if they know that only one person will get the prize.

I agree!!

So please make it fair for everyone, the rep is shared amongst each team member.
But everyone receives an equal Winner Icon, thats what it's really all about!!

===

I see you've removed the 6 month thing, I guess that can be decided, if/when the tournament begins.
As I said before I think 3 months would be ideal for everyone & perfect for this particular contest.

 

[Ardnived]

Hmm I see your points, I believe I will change it... though I'm a little unsure about the icon... I'm not sure why it just seems like you could give them each a lesser icon if it was team or something and a greater one if you had less eople in your team, I don't know I'm just kicking this around... but I beliee I will change the rep reward to suite

 

[Gilles]

Awful idea. One submission is all that you will get, if that. A long term contest is a really bad idea.

 

[Ardnived]

I strongly disagree, and I would provide counters but for the lack of your own argument

 

[Gilles]

What? First of all I'm not really arguing. I just stated that this would never fly. We didn't get any results on the paired mapping contest because people loose interest so quickly. Maybe you haven't learned this yet, but I've been part of enough teams, to know that very few good maps actually get finished. I also know how many people start maps with promise, and quit after a while, or like me, go so slow that it will never actually get finished. I'm not trying to flame you, or your contest, I'm just stating an opinion, and a somewhat veteran opinion.

 

[Ardnived]

very well, but simply stating that you think it's a bad Idea isn't very helpful, explaining why is . But I was under the impression that the Paried Mapping Contest is getting sufficient interest.

Additionally I have just changed a whole TON of things on the original post, please reread it anyone . I finally buckled under donut and ther people pressuring me to do something about the theme issue and time limit thing

 

[Fulla]

What? First of all I'm not really arguing. I just stated that this would never fly. We didn't get any results on the paired mapping contest because people loose interest so quickly. Maybe you haven't learned this yet, but I've been part of enough teams, to know that very few good maps actually get finished. I also know how many people start maps with promise, and quit after a while, or like me, go so slow that it will never actually get finished. I'm not trying to flame you, or your contest, I'm just stating an opinion, and a somewhat veteran opinion.

But you see, the paired mapping contest is/was highly restrictive:

• You must find a partner to work with
• You can not work with more than one person
• You must follow the theme

This contest eliminates that, giving alot more freedom.

The greatest aspect of this contest is that it allows ppl to enter with maps they were going to/planning on creating anyways.
Except now they have a stronger motivation to finish & complete their project.

You don't have to suddenly come up with an idea that suits this particular contest, you simply can create/enter with a map you enjoy making & above all want to make.

===

So no, far from failing I think this contest would be highly successful.

Should also be noted the paired mapping contest finishes this weekend, so in theory this contest could start shortly afterwards.

 

[donut3.5]

The point in contests is to add a twist to your everyday normal mapping/modeling/scripting/whatever, not to stick to the same boring routine. Thus, working in pairs is a twist, a theme is a twist, etc.
I'm starting to like the changes, but I'm trying to think of what would make this REALLY interesting..
--donut3.5--