Built in Map Protection?

[Zaeden]

Something interesting, Blizzard plans on adding a feature in the Starcraft II editor to allow you to 'lock' your map. Do you think this will encourage the average player to make maps with maybe a feeling of security that their map won't be 'stolen'?



http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc2-general&t=103825&tmp=1#post103825

 

[Rui]

Which I bet Blizzard has power on. The the best new is the tile mix feature, it's really needed on Warcraft III.

 

[Klipso]

in about a year after release, maybe less. someone will have a program to open them,

from what i understand if the game can play it, it can be opened

 

[Hakeem]

Klipso said it.
I only hope "locked" maps can still be easily looked at, just not edited.

 

[busterkomo]

I hope there will be an option to hide the sc2 equivalent of the war3map.j file, to stop save/load code abusers.

 

[Hakeem]

Also, impossible. The only semi-secure means of storage is remote.

 

[Xarwin]

Blizzard can say whatever they want.

There are always people which create programs to unlock maps
or trying to open them. At warcraft maps it happened with success.

So I don't believe it will help. It might just keep some noobs out of the maps, that's all.

 

[BlinkBoy]

Well, as far as Sc2 can read the map, it can be hacked. Atleast it will avoid noobs from opening any map.

 

[Massive_attack]

I hope blizzard makes it so the map protector utterly f*CKS the scumedit code when it tries to load, I dont want some snotty noob ruining my map with LOLOLOL GOD VERSION's all over the place. That was terrible in Wc3.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

They should make SC2 to be connected to the internet when you install it just like HL2 .. if everything will be online you will have to log into your account to use World Editor .. and if you don't have the right account name to access the map .. then you cant access the map at all.. is that waterproof?

 

[Mechanical Man]

And those who have no internet?

 

[The_wand_mirror]

They suck.
Rly. Who doesnt have internet these days. Valve does everything by internet, all they're games are connected to the internet from the moment of installation. And i think its a good advantage..

 

[Hakeem]

They should make SC2 to be connected to the internet when you install it just like HL2 .. if everything will be online you will have to log into your account to use World Editor .. and if you don't have the right account name to access the map .. then you cant access the map at all.. is that waterproof?

No, because the internet isn't secure. Also, if you mean to have the maps stored remotely, then the server would have to be very dedicated.

 

[RoughneckLeader]

Still, it will partialy help. And you know if it's been tampered (or at least looked at from the ask-to-save-and-you-say-yess) with cas' you need to download it again.

 

[Massive_attack]

But eventually some dickwad steals it then leaks the unprotected version.

 

[LordDz]

I have an idéa , how about that you're able to open LOCKED maps, but not being able to save them? As I hate when people lock GOOD maps when I want to look how they were made..

 

[Massive_attack]

Thats what tutorials and sites like this are for. If you want something done, make a few posts and sure enough you will get a quick response

 

[Captain Griffen]

The map has to be on people's HD. That's just a fact.

And another fact is, if it is on the harddrive and can be played, the information can theoretically be reconstructed in some form. The only issues are how hard that is to do, and how readable for humans it is afterwards (for example, Vex-ified JASS scripts are very hard to maintain).

 

[Massive_attack]

*sigh* I know.. I for one would just like to hope that the protection will be very tough, but yess, i realize anyone can unlock maps one way or another.

 

[redmarine]

We are talking about Blizzard here. They got the power to do anything they want and if they want to protect our maps they will. Even if someone is able to hack I believe Blizzard will improve their map protection and over time the map protection will be great.

 

[BlinkBoy]

The map has to be on people's HD. That's just a fact.

And another fact is, if it is on the harddrive and can be played, the information can theoretically be reconstructed in some form. The only issues are how hard that is to do, and how readable for humans it is afterwards (for example, Vex-ified JASS scripts are very hard to maintain).

There's a russian tool out there that unprotects almost any map even if it had been optimized with vex's map optimizer. It reconstructs everything except unit's position data, and makes the script be saveable.

The only way blizzard could lock a map and make it VERY Hard to unprotect, is by making a complete new format for locked maps.

 

[PurplePoot]

They could always do things like compile the script into bytecode, which would make them MUCH harder to unlock.

I have an idéa , how about that you're able to open LOCKED maps, but not being able to save them? As I hate when people lock GOOD maps when I want to look how they were made..

Which defeats the purpose of protection - if people can still CnP, they can steal it just fine.

 

[Hakeem]

Then disable copying for locked maps.
Protection defeats the purpose of modding. And it's purpose is pretty stupid to begin with.

 

[BlinkBoy]

Then disable copying for locked maps.
Protection defeats the purpose of modding. And it's purpose is pretty stupid to begin with.

actually deprotection defeats the purpose of the modding community. And no, ppl's always able to copy paste everything even if it had been disable, you can just see it and copy it down.

 

[Hakeem]

Map protection stops other modders from seeing how you made your map do what it does. For the sake of others modders, you should not protect your map.

No matter who you are, your map is not so great that it needs to be protected from the eyes of others. If you only release your map on battle.net, then you can expect your legacy to die, but if you submit your map to a site, then your legacy is protected. Protecting a map does not protect you as the author. Only telling others that you are the author can protect you as the author.

Also, disabling copying would be very effective. Do you know how long it would take to recreate a maps terrain? Units? Doodads? Regions? 1000 triggers? Object data? If your map is of such magnitude that you would lock it, then those tasks would be very, very, time consuming.
Protection is mainly to stop noobs from changing your map to have cheats. I think disabling copying for locked maps would be enough to stop them. Unless they have incredible patience and lots of time on their hands.

 

[Shadow_Fox]

Map protection also stops morons from taking your map and saying they made it,thus defeating the purpose of your hard work, but lets not get into the ethics of map protection here, back to the topic, i do hope blizzard gives us a VERY high level of protection.

 

[Captain Griffen]

Hakeem, you can't disable copying. That form of DRM doesn't work. It fails badly, since someone else will make a problem that CAN save it (or hack the WE directly). It can't be done in a manner that cannot be circumvented.

BlinkBoy - I know that Vex's optimiser can be deprotected, but the JASS code is insanely hard to maintain or improve (have you ever tried reading obscurified vJASS? Don't).

As pointed out, compiled JASS or whatever in the maps would be more secure. However, I think that that would require JASS to become interpreted in some way, or at least be compiled into a less native form than it currently is, with the result that it would be slower in performance (otherwise the bytecode could be used for neferious methods, such as file accessing, etc.). I'm not too sure on that point, though.

 

[Hakeem]

Hakeem, you can't disable copying. That form of DRM doesn't work. It fails badly, since someone else will make a problem that CAN save it (or hack the WE directly). It can't be done in a manner that cannot be circumvented.

If the game can play it, it can be circumvented. Programs can be made regardless of what means of protection or locking are used.

No matter who you are, your map is not so important that it needs to be protected from the eyes of other modders. I can understand wanting noobs not to add cheats or try to take your credit, but preventing copying would stop most of them.

If you've done something in your map that I don't know how to do, I might want to see how you did it and learn something. Disabling copying and pasting for locked maps allows me to see how it works. A noob on the other hand, would only want to change strings or add cheat triggers, with no intent on learning.

I know that Vex's optimiser can be deprotected, but the JASS code is insanely hard to maintain or improve.

"maintain or improve" is not what you are trying to stop with locked maps. You're trying to stop noobs from stealing or cheating your map, neither of which classify as maintaining or improvement. Modders on the other hand might want to do just that.

---

Protection and locking don't protect you as the author. The only way to do that is to tell people you are the author. Like uploading your map to a site such as this.
If they want to be really revolutionary with Starcraft II, then they could have an author system built into Battle.net. If someone hosts a map with a name matching your map, and it's been edited, then they can get banned. It's probably not a perfect system, but it would require some serious dedication (and programming skills) to get around it.

 

[PurplePoot]

Hakeem, if someone wants to know how to do something, I'm happy to tell them if they ask. (And if I'm paranoid, I can give them a different approach to it and not my map's code)

It solves the stealing problem (Most people who can deprotect a map are past the adding cheats phase anyways), as well as the learning problem.

If someone doesn't bother asking, then it's their problem, not mine.

Also, something you seem to have forgotten is that many people protect their maps due to the size reduction, which can significantly alter DL, as well as the fact that things such as JESP are significantly faster if optimized with Vex. (The last point is less prominent since vJass though)

 

[Hakeem]

Optimization is not the same as protection or locking.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

I'd say Blizzard need to make an irreversible protection - once protected, the map never to be opened again. You can always save a copy that is unprotected, right?

 

[PurplePoot]

Hakeem, the largest filesize reductions come from deleting editor-required data that is not required ingame, and I'm sure you know that. Thus, for many people, protection is a side-effect of optimization.

Also, no comments as to the rest of my post?

 

[Hakeem]

I'd say Blizzard need to make an irreversible protection - once protected, the map never to be opened again.

How can the game play it if it can't be opened?

Hakeem, the largest filesize reductions come from deleting editor-required data that is not required ingame, and I'm sure you know that. Thus, for many people, protection is a side-effect of optimization.

I'm not saying optimization is bad, I'm saying protection, for the purpose of protection, is bad. If difficulty opening the map is a side effect of optimization, then I have no problem. (Well, I do. Ever looked at Google's source? It's pretty bad. I think they should have the normal readable source available to the people who want to look at it, and the rest will get the super compact, bandwidth saving version.)

Also, no comments as to the rest of my post?

Why wont this work?! I did exactly what I was told! Why can't they just have a readable version for those who want to look at it?! Then I could cut away the rest and see exactly what's going on, since I know that it works.

What's this? I never knew about that. This is gonna save me lots of time!

Can someone tell me how <not easily readable map #1> does <thing it does>?

Can someone tell me how <not easily readable map #2> does <thing it does>?

Can someone tell me how <not easily readable map #n> does <thing it does>?

 

[PurplePoot]

For the second part of your post... err, what?

 

[Unscrewed_Magic]

If blizzard lets you uber duber encrypt the maps through battle.net
As in, every map you download off of b.net is encrypted by b.net and unencrypted when loaded back onto b.net..., but the original map file still stays on the developer's HD...
That way, all of the encryption and unencryption is done on a sever where no one can see it.

 

[Hakeem]

That's infeasible because the servers would not be able to handle all the traffic.

Also, if the only thing a client ever gets is an encrypted map, then how do you presume the map be played?

 

[TheChosenOne]

You could revamp jass so that when its complied it, there is no way to un complie it, like when you make a c++ program it gets turned into machine lang that an human can not read. Along with aes-256 encrptsion on world editor only files. Also an diffrent encrptsion on the game files that only starcraft knows password too. yes after an long time someone will capture it, well make "warden" deny opening it if it feels its being watched, and even if by some amazeing feat someone gets that code there back to machine code...

This whould make it amazeingly hard.

 

[LordDz]

If blizzard lets you uber duber encrypt the maps through battle.net
As in, every map you download off of b.net is encrypted by b.net and unencrypted when loaded back onto b.net..., but the original map file still stays on the developer's HD...
That way, all of the encryption and unencryption is done on a sever where no one can see it.

So.. What happens to singleplayer maps?

 

[redmarine]

So.. What happens to singleplayer maps?

Screw them.
FirstClass have made an almost bulletproofed encryption for their e-mails/chat messanges. It is almost illegally because no one can read it without the server's decryption.
If Blizzard could figure out an way to make super servers which could handle huge amount of data and encrypt and decrypt then they'll rule.
They could always use their income from World of Warcraft. Here is where the addicts become handy.

 

[Hakeem]

Maps are usually made for one purpose: To be played.
In order for a map to be played, you need to be able to read the data in the map that makes the map what it is.
So, you'll probably release your map to the public, so if can be played.

Basically, you want to release data to the world, but they can't look at it.

 

[redmarine]

I was thinking about making the server able to decrypt it.
We live in a modern age where everyone is able to get internet connection. Blizzard got the money to create over powered servers.

 

[LordDz]

I was thinking about making the server able to decrypt it.
We live in a modern age where everyone is able to get internet connection. Blizzard got the money to create over powered servers.

Or Blizzard add a waterprint safe name, so that when you've made your map, you add your name into it, which can't be changed, even if you resave the map, but this would only apply to ''released maps'' so there should be an opinion on it.

 

[redmarine]

That won't work for all maps. They'll still be able to steal the map in many ways. They can steal the triggers, objects and imported stuff and use them for their own maps or just transfer the whole thing into a new map like replicate everything.
They could also create new maps which may be better and try to kill the original maps. This might create confusion amongst the players and cheats.

And who says you can't hack the map itself to change the authors name?

 

[LordDz]

But, you're going away from the most important thing here:

Learning.

I've learnt a LOT of things, by just opening a map and peak into its' triggers, sure maybe I even stole a few ones from it, just to help me make a map, so what? I didn't release it, it was just there so I could learn myself something..

 

[redmarine]

I do agree on that one... The authors should probably be able to share the triggers...

 

[LordDz]

Yes, but how should they be able to do that from Bnet?

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

What if you had to enter in a password in order to open it? The password is encrypted and only Blizzards decryption can open it :O So when you go online, you can play the map online because Blizzard decrypts it, but you can't open it because you don't have the decryptor :O

Would this work?

 

[Hakeem]

And how are other people supposed to play the map?

The reason map protection does not work is the same reason that downloading music cannot be stopped. Your computer has to have access to the music data in order to play the music. If you can access the data, (which you can, because you are hearing the music) then you can copy the data.

 

[HappyTauren]

For those who didnt understand Hakeem's point, the fact is, that when you are playing music, and HEARING IT, it MUST be stored somewhere in RAM. You can always steal stuff from ram with special tools. Also, why wouldn't even some special encryption work? There are always hackers, and wc3 is popular, there is no way on earth they wouldn't decrypt it.

 

[redmarine]

They might just update the protection so there will be many ways to decrypt on.