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60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

BUGS!

Submitted by MoCo
This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
STATUS: v1.7

changelog:
v1.7: (hopefully) no more desync errors

You will always find more information about the map and updates in this thread:
Bug Evolution - One day in a bug's life

Screenshots

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MAP INFO:

This is your life as a bug!

Following the law of darwin, only the strongest insects will survive. Your task is simple: kill, eat and evolve, but try not to get eaten by someone larger than you!
In your evolution, you will become bigger and adapt the abilities of the insects you kill.

Who will be the first bug to reach level 70 and rule the carrot garden?

- 1 to 9 players
- decent AI support
- fully written in jass


Thanks to:
GreyArchon (original "digger" idea), 13LUR (Sim Ant map), communist_orc (beehive model), Dan van Ohllus (snail & slug models), Darkwulfv (xp system), D.O.G. (fly and green worm model), Heroic_Milkman (bee model), Olof Moleman (dragon-fly & coackroach models), Werewulf (carnivorous plant model).

Keywords:
bug, bugs, BUGS, beetle, beetles, insect, insects, evolution, deathmatch, team, dm, micro, arena
Contents

BUGS! (Map)

Reviews
Moderator
04:10, 25th Dec 2009 ap0calypse: Approved
  1. TM-Magic

    TM-Magic

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    Depends. I'd say it'd be a good thing to add to the creeps as well.
     
  2. MoCo

    MoCo

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    Definitely and it will make the world feel more lively.

    I guess I'm gonna start with improving the AI, map enlargement and an XP sys..
     
  3. TheBlooddancer

    TheBlooddancer

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    I owuld love you if you made shops etc. Or gold-mine-ish things where you could harvest food.

    Also, it would be lovely, if you could create a 'non-survival'-ing, where you wernt un-allied with other players, and could mate etc, and build houses and so on.
     
  4. MoCo

    MoCo

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    One the one hand, I really like the quality and quantity of your feedback!
    One the other hand, I just get mad about how long the to-do-list is getting.... :D ;) (just kidding)

    But yeah.. some commands for the host would make sense. -dm, -teamdm, maybe even species team up.. different game modes and such.

    EDIT:

    Does anyone know, how to prevent creeps from running back to their initial positions after move orders?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  5. Seralas

    Seralas

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    Looks like an interesting map. Will give it a try :)
     
  6. TM-Magic

    TM-Magic

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    Do what I said in the first post. Go into Advanced -> Gameplay constants and look for Creep. Set all those values to 0.
     
  7. MoCo

    MoCo

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    I'm now using guard dist = 0, and guard return dist/time = 9999. All values zero hasn't worked for me, because units fastly moved back to their positions then. But it's working fine now.
     
  8. TM-Magic

    TM-Magic

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    Interesting, I set all mine to 0 and they act fine.
     
  9. Tanasren

    Tanasren

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    I meant it would be hard to play with, because it will lag (maybe), no ?

    As for adding shop, i think this is not a great idea, the best aspect of this map is the ambience (i mean we really think we are bugs xD) !
     
  10. MoCo

    MoCo

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    I've already started working on the new version and I've implented a new Creep AI, that makes creeps attack each other (if they are a different race).

    But Tanasren youre right in wondering if this might cause lag. There has to be a lot of calculation in short time intervals to get it working smootly. There are about ~100 creeps active at all times and the AI has to check about every second, if there are any possible targets in their range.

    I haven't tested it in B.Net so far, but it works very fine on my pc, lucky that I haven't discovered performance issues so far. I'm using indexed arrays to handle the huge amount of creeps, I think that should be faster than unit groups or something.. (?!)

    To give some more preview on the new version:
    larger terrain with new spots, a bee hive (bees will be day-active), two different ant colonies fighting each other, an XP system, weather and other new stuff.
     
  11. TM-Magic

    TM-Magic

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    Nice. The new update sounds packed full of goodness. As for creeps AI, it really depends on how you write it and how much smoothness your willing to sacrifice. On my spore map I generally have 3 AI triggers per phase (actually land and up is a bit more complicated so its more than 3). First it checks what the AI eats. If they're herbivore, they find something to eat, if they're carnivore, a number between 1-3 is generated, if the number is less than 3, it attacks a random unit in the area of 3000, then 1000, then 500 (so it finds closer targets) and if it is 3, eats meat within 3000, 1000, 500. Then if its an omnivore, it generates a number between 1-3, if its less then 3, finds plants to eat, if it is 3, generates a random number between 1-3 and if its less than 2 finds and attacks a unit int he area of 3000, 1000, 500, and if its 3, eats meat within 3000, 1000, 500. (All of this is done every 12 or so seconds)
    (The second AI triggers when the AI eats plants or meat, and orders them to eat another one nearby.
    The third AI trigger grants xp and levels them up and gives them random stats.)

    I'm using roughly 25 computer units (Neutral Hostile), this system has NO lag on my computer, even while running a second monitor, playing a movie. So idk I doubt it would lag without all those extra calculations, even with 100 units.

    I'm using a NVIDIA 8800 GS graphics card, Intel Celeron D (3.33GHz 3.35GHz) cpu, with 2.00 GB ram (on vista).
     
  12. Seralas

    Seralas

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    I checked out the map and it looks to be a very solid and workable base from which a truly excellent map could be launched. The update looks to be a definite "must have".A couple of things that I did notice in the game, one which has been mentioned (i think), and the other that hasn't been mentioned.

    The first is that one gains a level for killing a creature down to a certain level below ones own. That is fine. However, one gets the same level for killing a creature which may be 2x ones own level. Was this a gameplay aspect, or just a temporary levelling system?

    The second point has to do with the food on the map. It would be nice if the amount of food on the map could perhaps have a max amount on the map, because when i was playing, by the time I clocked it, the ground had masses of food on it. A sub point of this, which will no doubt be addressed as seen fit, is that there is only a single variety currently, as mentioned already.

    Having observed the above two minor points, I would like to say that I could never achieve a map like this (at the moment...maybe with months/years of learning hehe). But I have played a large number of custom WC maps, so I'm bound to hit on some valid points occasionally :grin:
    (and I should get round to introducing myself onto these forums sometime also :)
     
  13. MoCo

    MoCo

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    Hey Seralas, thanks for your comment.

    The upcoming XP system for the new version will make level gain more complex since higher levels grant more XP. For example, if you are level 1 and kill a level 5 creep, you won't just become level 2, but 3 or 4.

    Edit: Thanks for the hint, there was a bug within the food system preventing old food from not being removed after some time.

    Right now, I'm working on a little alliance system, that offers you the possibility to ally with up to 3 (?) other players.

    Most of the other stuff is finished already. Maybe I put a prerelease-version fpr testing to the thread within the next days.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  14. Ice_Eagle

    Ice_Eagle

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    I like the concept, makes it play like SPORE a little, but I wish you could make your OWN bug... like be an ant, or a spider, a dragonfly, etc.
    Add more adaptable abilities.
    Creeps ought to attack one another i.e. spider attacks ants, worms, etc.
    Experience-based leveling would make it a bit better, because if you kill a first-level bug at level 20 you shouldn't get 1 level, you'd get small amounts experience.
     
  15. MoCo

    MoCo

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    Last edited: Nov 27, 2008
  16. TheBlooddancer

    TheBlooddancer

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    MoCo, never use commands for game-modes. Its so simple. Use dialogs!

    Also, for the 'creep going back' you can just every 8 seconds, order all creeps to 'attack - move to' and then their location (Saved in an variable ofc). That way, unless you have some unit, that moves 9999 in less than 8 seconds, and fights lasting 60 seconds +, it will be no problem. Also, i would like to see an update :smile:
     
  17. TM-Magic

    TM-Magic

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    Alright I tested your 1.4. Btw, having a version number 1.4 and calling it a beta...just sounds wrong. To be truthful, your 1.0 should really be 0.20 and this new one maybe around 0.30. 1.0 is suppose to be when its all 100% done, and after are updates. But w/e.

    Alright, the AI looks a hell of a lot better in all ways. I did have a slight problem with ks though. Often, I'll see 2 AI duking it out (creeps or computer players) and they'll both be at red and so I just use Impale and they both die, granting me all the xp for doing basically nothing. Usually I'd say its no big deal, but it happened a lot.

    Second, the poison sting is a good idea, allows you to hit air and grants +5 attack, however, it seems a little overpowered. Air units seem to grant a lot of xp for attacking them twice. Maybe add a little more meat to them and let them run away at half hp? Idk I still think creep AI should include running away at lower hp, making you chase them (like any smart player would do). I noticed you already added that for computer players.

    Although this maps greatly improved on the AI front and seeing the ants battle it out is awesome, it still has a major problem which makes it very lacking. Luckily, I think I understand what that is.

    The xp gain is a hell of a lot better and it increases at a good rate, however the game still seems "slow" if you will. The first few minutes of the game are EXACTLY like the last few minutes. Except its easier as I said in a previous post, (which needs to be fixed in itself). And although the terrain and AI is unique, the gameplay is lacking, and there isn't much to do, and you feel imprisoned by what is given and what you have to do. You fight bugs and when you fight bugs, there's only so many things that give a player an advantage. A) your bug is a higher level, or B) you have more food. The thing that is missing is the skill.

    I would suggest adding random stats and/or stats you can pick to give the player so that bugs are more unique. (and like I said add more of those abilities you gain through eliminating a certain number of a species). Also, the game seems slow because the units are slow. You attack...wait...get attacked...wait...attack... wait...get attacked...ect...ect...ect. I would suggest making it smoother, faster attacks and faster movement speeds. Also, you could add some line of sight blockers in the tall grass allowing you to evade someone based on your movements and its speed.

    Also I'd suggest a different camera angle, either farther out, completely top down, (not angled at all), or a closer almost 1st person view. Either way, it'll make your terrain stand out. If you go with the first idea, it'll make it feel more bug like, or rather, like ur a human "possessing" a bug. If you do a low-to-the-ground view, you'll feel more like the bug and the terrain will really stand out.

    Another thing is, the food seems a little...generic, the mushrooms are good though. Maybe add splotches of food, as if someone dropped something? or make land marks that give food or something. What I mean is, food that behaves a little more like food, not just some random piece of grass. Just a thought.



    I know I'm asking a lot, but remember, these are just suggestions, because I think I truly know what makes a good game.
     
  18. TheBlooddancer

    TheBlooddancer

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    Still- More bosses. Its hard to gain levels, when there's no high-lvl monsters (If your enemies are weak/CPU players).

    Also, you should make some fat-ass worm, underground, that kills rocks, and bugs.
    It should be some 'ultra' monster. :D
     
  19. TM-Magic

    TM-Magic

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    Lol, I'd agree with that, as a low level, there's plenty to eat and run from, maybe even too much for new players. Then, as you progress there's less to eat and less to threaten you. It's one of the main problems...it starts hard and gets easier.

    While I was testing 1.4, the AI and other creeps were killing the giant spider and I ended up being able to kill it when it was at maybe 5% hp...and if you don't kill the spider and the carnivorous plant, your going to be fairly low on xp with little hope to win vs a higher leveled player. The game may as well end there, or actually the game ends fairly soon, when you start out as a lower level. There is no way to "get back into the game" if you will.
     
  20. MoCo

    MoCo

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    As always TM, your points are very well minded (hope this is correct english?!) and I agree with you.

    So there are still a lots of things that can use some work. For now, I guess I should concentrate on the things that are most important, which seems to be the basic gameplay fundament.

    You're right. It really should be just the other way than it is now: easy in the first place and getting harder to the end. And it seems to be a good idea making it more fast-paced, more depending on player skills and micro management. More abilities probably will increase the quality and complexity of the gameplay. And I also think that it can use more depth in playability and such.

    I'm gonna take some time to think about all the points.. I'll also try the new camera angles etc..
    Seems like a lot of work to do..

    Thanks again for the big bunch of new input.. your feedback helps a lot and might cause this 'fun-project' (in the first place) to become a real nice map.

    Concerning the fat-ass giant worm, I already thought about using this model: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models.php?id=fnr2cn&prev=search=worm&d=list&r=20
    But it has a pretty huge filesize and I want to keep the map as small as possible.. so let's see... There should be more insect models... A giant grasshopper or frog would be awesome.. ;)