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BNET Matchmaker 2.0

Discussion in 'Patch & Reforged Discussion' started by Kam, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. Kam

    Kam

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    Greetings,

    When thinking about a ladder matchmaker for Reforged what improvements would you like to see from the existing service?

    The more specific you are the better informed we will be.

    Reddit thread
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  2. RehcraM

    RehcraM

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    It's not specifically ladder, but something quite related:

    If we do indeed see a big influx of players with Reforged, it might be worth considering having a place to practice specific matchups. What I mean is, a place where you can que up for games against certain races where wins and losses does not count on your ladder score.
    i.e., if you want to practice your UD vs. OR matchup, you can select said matchup, and you'll only que into people who wants to practice their OR vs. UD matchup. There are some pitfalls that should be considered with this feature, though, as you might very well already be aware of.

    I also think the ladder ranking could be improved. Right now neither level nor winrate seem to be a display of how good you are for different reasons. So perhaps it'd be worth considering taking inspiration for more modern ranking systems, like in SC2 (as an example).
     
  3. Brezzel

    Brezzel

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    I really want to be able to Queue with an Partner for an 4v4 Game
    2+(2 Other Guys) vs 4
    That would be really great.
    You need to do some adjustments so its fair, but this would be a lot of fun :)
     
  4. Letsgo

    Letsgo

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    Bro just make it like the matchmaking system you already have in sc2.
     
  5. Darklycan51

    Darklycan51

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    I think the biggest improvements you could add could all be taken from Dota 2.

    1) MMR, and every "500" or 1000 points u get a different icon (peon, footman, knight, paladin, etc). (Maybe the top X amount of human players get an arthas icon which would be the equivalent of GM in sc2?)
    would be cool to have only a select few get Arthas/Thrall (although I'd prefer Grom)/Tyrande/DK Arthas
    2) Make matchmaking primarily based on mmr, you shouldn't get GM players as a new player, definitely, also the first X amount of games u get matched 9/10 times against new players (the other 1 time could be used to calibrate) that way the new players don't get overwhelmed by cheese strats.
    3)(maybe) if you participate in ladder you get a chance to get a rare skin (per season)? wouldn't be bracked-locked, simply play above "bronze" (meaning you are trying), and you get a chance to get a rare skin dropped (like hearthstone cardbacks).
    4)definitely add (melee only) skins (also enable them for custom maps after release so that we can use the new assets), so that people feel motivated to play ladder.
    HOWEVER. I am a firm believer that you shouldn't implement a shadow pool system, I got there once due to being reported for picking techies, on my first steam account, it was impossible to get out, you literally even when playing in the most positive way possible someone would just randomly abandon in your team or start "feeding".
    (This last thing is aimed at 2v2/3v3/4v4 matchmaking, reporting for picking a "non meta" hero shouldn't be a thing, shadowpool in general is a bad idea)
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  6. TimeForAChange

    TimeForAChange

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    We need to be able to find games.
    -The barriers between realms are a pretty big problem right now and the different game types have coagulated onto which server they were most popular on.
    -I still think that AT&RT should be combined to reduce search times. I have not been convinced by arguments against it.


    We should be able to adjust for times where we know we will play hard, but worse.
    -The "unranked" feature for SC2 is great in my opinion. If you're trying a new strategy, where you know you will be weaker, it makes sense to be out of the regular queue.
    -Similarly, if you are switching race, you will probably also perform worse so it makes sense to have stats by race like in SC2.


    Ranking needs to be more accurate and meaningful:

    -Right now, the rank means almost nothing. If I want to know a player's skill I have to check their stats, and if you want to climb ladder you need to play tons of games. When you do, you might rank a few slots below a professional player who will still beat you 4/5 games. That kind of skill difference should be obvious on ladder listings. You should be able to tell at a glance and players should be placed based on past performance from season to season. The bell curve determination of skill by league is good and should be based on worldwide skill. If there are no grandmasters in NA, so be it. I want to look at someone's icon/rank and have a good approximation of their skill.


    Functional Automated Tournaments:
    -Everybody misses these. Ideally I would like global and regional tournaments. Since leagues should be based on global skill, you can still battle for regional rankings in regional tournaments.
     
  7. floss2xdaily

    floss2xdaily

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    Thank you for the opportunity to share our thoughts:

    - Three buckets <50% winrate; 50-60%; >60%. You spend one minute in your bucket, and then expand outward. E.g. first minute my 45% winrate account can only find sub 50%ers, second minute, 60 and below, third minute everyone.
    - Crossrealm matchmaking (potentially with ability to deselect realms that you have very bad ping. To be featured on "official" ladder, you can't deselect any realm)
    - Allow all RT game types (2v2, 3v3, 4v4, and FFA) to search at same time, with ability to deselect gametypes you don't want. RT and AT would NOT search together.

    This isn't EXACTLY ladder matchmaking, but tangentially related:
    - Show race beyond loading screen (perhaps with an icon at the f12 screen)
    - Ability to change realms at the "gateway selection" screen instead of one screen later
    - Add win icons (perhaps 25, 50, 25, 50, 75, 100, 150, 250, 500, 750, 1000, 1500, 10k)
    - Three ladder seasons a year, each 4 months long. Top 20 (or so) each season get to take place in year end tournament.
    - Ladder badges for placing in top 50, top 10, top 3 at end of season (either to be displayed in profile, or maybe custom profile icons)
    - More squelch chat options
     
  8. Sieben

    Sieben

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    Hey Kam, thanks for this thread.

    I don't know if it falls into the ladder category, but I think smurfs shouldn't be allowed on battle.net. It only benefits the smurf, not his/her opponents. Smurfs will be even worse when Reforged is out, because new players (or older players who no longer know how to play against human players, like me) will want to play online, and smurfs will ruin their experience.

    The only reason I see for having a smurf account is for those who want to test new strategies without jeopardising their rank. It's a reasonable request, but I think there are better ways to achieve that:
    • Restricting the number of accounts. A maximum of 2 or 3 accounts would do.
    • Or, an even better option would be to allow players to switch on/off the points gain/loss when playing ladder: that way, you will be able to test strategies without risk. You can switch it back any time between two games.
    Also, it would be nice to have several distinct ranks, depending on the race you play with. That way, if you switch to a race you are not used to play with, you will not fight against players who match your skill with another race, and you will not jeopardise your rank with that other race. It will encourage people to play with different races and not focus on the only race they are comfortable with.

    Finally, I would like to be able to queue for different types of matches at the same time, and play whatever comes first. IIRC, the current situation only allows to queue for one type of game (1vs1 only, or 2vs2 only, etc).
     
  9. ANGRY_KOREA_MAN

    ANGRY_KOREA_MAN

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    2v2 Ladder!!! SC:R I can't even play because there is no 2v2 ladder!!, huge deal for me in all blizzard games.
     
  10. Bogdanov89

    Bogdanov89

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    There really should be an option for 2 or 3 friends to queue for 4v4 and get some random teammates.

    4v4 is some of the most fun and noob-friendly melee that a regular player can have in warcraft 3.

    It would be awesome if you could play 4v4 with a friend or two that you met in 4v4 or have introduced to warcraft 3.

    So please allow players to queue for 4v4 even if they only have two or three players in their party.

    If trully needed this can be separate from the "4v4 Random Team" matchmaking but frankly the enforced Random Team mechanic feels outdated and archaic, not to mention it prevents playing with a friend.
     
  11. grimgrents

    grimgrents

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    A party system similar to Dota 2 were you can invite your friends and join custom game lobbies/queue together would be great!

    Let us spectate a friend's game with 5 minutes delay just like in Dota 2.

    Different unit/heroes skins rewarded during events or for reaching specific rank
     
  12. Letsgo

    Letsgo

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    This tbh. No reason why u should be allowed to create unlimited accounts with a single CD key. Maybe 1 or 2 accounts per gateway (US West, US East, Europe, etc.) is more than sufficient. Smurfing is going to deter a lot of new/returning players from continuing ladder play. There should be a certain sense of accomplishment when you rack up hundreds of games on your account. Im still about 80 wins away from my spellbreaker icon and it makes no sense to me why I would create new accounts just to stomp noobs with.

    And yes making unranked ladder like in sc2 would allow players to get their feet wet before they're comfortable enough to play ranked. I think a lot of new people play like <20 games and make a new account or just quit cus their winrate is 15% due to smurfs.

    Oh, and speaking of icons, dont change a thing. One day when im in my 60s i will eventually get 1500 wins and the Jaina icon will be my pride and joy. I think someone here suggested to unlock new icons based on your MMR... dont do that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  13. Drayen

    Drayen

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    Posted this in the reddit thread:

    We should have crossrealm matchmaking, but only with close gateways. If you're east and you play on west or EU, the ping is acceptable IMO, but on asia it becomes very noticable/annoying. You could make an exception for extremely low popularity gametypes, such as 3v3/4v4 AT, but it would try and prefer to find games with decent ping first.

    Queueing with a friend in RT is not something that should happen IMO. It is a nice feature, but it absolutely ruins it random team players. Just have to look at SC2 to see the "pros" with 99% winrate who just play with 1-2 of their friends and smash RT players all day. Arranged team needs to stay in arranged team, they can still play a 2v2/3v3 without ruining a 3v3rt/4v4rt. If you do make partial RT vs AT a thing, the games those players playing with friends definitely should never count towards the RT ladder, it'll be the only way to be at the top otherwise, as RT will be dominated by 99% winrate players, when actual top RT players struggle to reach 70% win.

    It also goes without saying, but no full AT vs RT either, i've experienced it enough in SC2 to know it's a shit show. With crossresalm matchmaking we should have enough people playing AT to be able to find games quickly without ruining the day for RT players. As much as I love 4v4 AT, if there isn't enough people to get it going even with crossrealm matchmaking and new players from Reforged, it should probably just die it's deserved death.

    Experience decay rate is absolutely insane, You need to play 1 game per 3 levels you have, and you lose 100xp for each game unplayed AFAIK. A lvl50 player has to play 16 games every single week or lose 3 levels and 100xp, this really sucks when you go on vacation or you're a causal player.

    It takes WAY too long to reach your intended spot on the ladder, it takes literally hundred of games. It would be really nice if the experience boost you got for being skilled but low level would be significantly higher, or if we had a MMR based ladder instead... Although I like seeing a "point" system such as level/experience. If you are a 100-0 account, you should be at the top of the ladder, not 1/4 of the way to people of comparable skill.

    I know other games have leagues, MMR, etc, but I think levels fit the Warcraft 3 theme much better. 2000MMR can easily just be level 20 instead, or "master league" can be level 10, similar to a max level hero. I've gottten used to high levels we have right now though, and it's nice to see people try and break the highest level attained.

    Matching players of similar skill should definitely be prefered, but searching time should stay low if possible. Nobody normal wants to wait 20-30minutes for a high quality game, when you can wait 5minutes for a decent quality game. Crossrealm matchmaking should help keeping search times short while allowing to increase game quality. It would also revive dead gametypes on certain servers, and perhaps even bring back 3v3/4v4 AT.

    Other points that are less matchmaking related:

    A way to report griefing in RT is absolutely necessary. RT is the most popular gametype, yet there is so much griefing it's insane: afking, stabbing, leaving, etc. We need some automated report feature just like other recent games to lessen this from happening.

    RT ladder should be split in 2v2/3v3/4v4rt. It's weird to rank people together who'll never face eachother. Being an oldschool 4v4 rt player, there is no way a strong 4v4rt player can ever compete against a 2v2 rt player, an amazing player will have way more control in a 2v2 game than a 4v4 player, and generally allies are way more solid in 2v2 so there's less randomness.

    EDIT:

    I'd like to add that it would be very nice, if we get to keep smurfing, that all accounts share the same MMR to limit the impact of veterans stomping on newer players all the time. The 10-0 account craze has never been great for the game ever.
     
  14. JaleVeliki

    JaleVeliki

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    It would be awesome if Reforged matchmaking/ranked system would introduce:
    - team grouping/searching for game
    - unranked mode
    - tier leagues (silver, bronze...gm) / proper mmr - matching players of similar skill
    /// would be cool to have like an avatar icon representing experience, while border or icon representing player's rank
    - better UX + UI for ingame bnet profile / guilds / clans / chat / custom games...
    - ability to reconnect to games
    - being able to have only one account per region, instead of unlimited (smurfs)
    - as a melee mapmaker, I'd really love to see new/often introductions/changes/improvements to the (seasonal) map pool
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  15. Letsgo

    Letsgo

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    If youre level 50 youre not a casual player and 16 games per week is a drop in the bucket.
     
  16. Blackcat

    Blackcat

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    I don't want RT and AT to be mixed. Some people have suggested to use the same system as in SCII, but it makes for even more uneven teams in game modes like 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4.

    People who know each other, who can communicate together via voice chat and can predetermine racechoice and tactics will always have an advantage over 2 random people. Warcraft 3 has a fine system where AT and RT is separated.

    I hope you'll add to the tournament options. The daily tournaments that are currently being hosted are good. But it should be more diverse. Add things like automated clanwars, multiple discipline tournaments, etc.

    Good luck in creating Reforged!
     
  17. Blackcat

    Blackcat

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    There should/could be a grace period for a week.
     
  18. Eat_Bacon_Daily

    Eat_Bacon_Daily

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    A lot of people are asking for very intricate systems, where you can opt-out of certain things and opt in for others. I would personally ask, to make a simple and sustainable system. A lot of people have come due to the WCR hype, and I don't know how long they plan to stay. I fear an overly complicated and multi opt-in opt-out system would make finding matches very difficult in a future where the hype is gone and most players have moved on to the next things.
     
  19. JCoto

    JCoto

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    I honestly think that the current SC2 matchmaking system is a relatively good referent, at least for 1v1.

    I specially like the idea of separate Race MMR, as it solves a lot of problems and gripes with 1v1 ladder, and I think that we could also have something on top of it that could be an equivalent to "average or total ranking" to estimate the level when playing a new race, for example. "Profiles" should be scrapped to prevent easy acces to smurfing. This is actually very important. If we introduce an split race MMR, there's no real need to have several different Multiplayer profiles. The profiles could be kept for different campaign runs, since there they can't be abused.

    Also the global ranking should show all the proficiencies of a player on each race. It would be interesting to see who is on the "real top" of playing all races. The information could be displayed as it follows:
    1. Highest MMR (Race)
    2. Race MMR breakdown: Human MMR, Orc MMR, UD MMR, NE MMR
    3. Averaged MMR (used for Random)

    Other than that, I feel like the SC2 system is good, but I can also admit than the arranged team feature would be slow and always feeling like unranked games with calibration over and over. That's why I think it should race MMR or average race MMR to make estimations so it doesn't need calibration again and again. Arranged teams should have some type of Weighted MMR adjustment to make things a bit more fair. The ranking system would benefit from an independent calibration coeficient for the modes with multiple players.
     
  20. kantarion

    kantarion

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    1.Make a team arrange lobby and let bnet search to play agaisnt other teams with same amount of players (and even advanced with similar rank..)

    2. Also make a team match system "clan based",so they play agiasnt each other on purpose,not randomly selected.

    3.Make an elite system where only good rank and rly high rank players would play.


    But this exist right ? Cause i played ladder last time 12 years ago, wc3 was rly old in that time right?
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019