[Campaign] Alliance Ashes Development Thread

[muaddib]

greetings, i am here to contribute my feed back and mini bugs to report upon.
over all testing went smooth as butter. i didnt encounter the missing chaplain bug, but the potential bugs i encountered are as followed:
1] despite meeting the victory requirements, in chapter 3, with what you are supposed to win with, it didnt send me to any cutscene transition.
[due the lack of chapter four?]
2] the occasional demi heroes that most chapters introduced, arent always recruitable at the upgraded barrackes. sometimes they are empty [ intended?].
3] not sure if i broke the triggers , but the assasination and inflitation chapter didnt quite work as intended.

other then that, i was amused on how you trolled the player, in the hidden chapter [which wasnt so hidden on the chapter select]

at your leisure, keep up the great work. a challenging custom campaign!

 

[Tuwnew]

greetings, i am here to contribute my feed back and mini bugs to report upon.
over all testing went smooth as butter. i didnt encounter the missing chaplain bug, but the potential bugs i encountered are as followed:
1] despite meeting the victory requirements, in chapter 3, with what you are supposed to win with, it didnt send me to any cutscene transition.
[due the lack of chapter four?]
2] the occasional demi heroes that most chapters introduced, arent always recruitable at the upgraded barrackes. sometimes they are empty [ intended?].
3] not sure if i broke the triggers , but the assasination and inflitation chapter didnt quite work as intended.

other then that, i was amused on how you trolled the player, in the hidden chapter [which wasnt so hidden on the chapter select]

at your leisure, keep up the great work. a challenging custom campaign!

1) I don't get it. What happened exactly?
2) You mostly have Flint, Prior and Adams in every chapter. Dependind on context, you have access to others.
3) Could you explain more?

Secret chapter will be hidden on release

 

[muaddib]

sorry i will rephrase regarding first and third pointer:
in chapter three, i waited for first part to happen [being overwhelmed] . that worked fine as usual. then came the counter attack quest [ or quests?] to fight back the undead. i met the requirements about the updated quests, but i had nothing afterwards. no ending cutscene or victory sequence to finish the chapter properly.

regarding pointer three: i played around the blink ability , but its possible i blinked at the wrong places, and the story did not continue properly. i saw multiple pathing options, but i guess they were wrongly taken.

i hope it makes better sense. cheers!

 

[Tuwnew]

I guess there is an issue there. Destroying every Undead bases should trigger endless final assault.

When were you stuck? At the beggining? Were you able to kill Edmunson?
Or were you stuck to enter the Alliance base?

 

[muaddib]

the first quest to take down edmunson worked fine. infiltrating the alliance base quest bit, and getting the keys afterwards, were bugged, correct.

 

[HuanJuan]

In one of my previous post I mentioned the Arcanist icon.

Here is what I got:

 

[Tuwnew]

Hey that's pretty neat! I will definitely use it! Thanks!

 

[krawg]

hey mate hope your doing well got the new version i must say im lost with that 'purple key 'says it opens a special gate yet i found none hoping to get some feedback thanks

 

[Tuwnew]

Hi, it's been a while uh?

I just added a new Chapter. I won't tell more as it's quite different than usual.

To be honest, I got a bit tired of "Draenn's Story" and started to work on other stuff, while keeping Alliance Ashes atmosphere.
This new map was nearly ready for a few months already because I wanted to upload it after Maporrino. But I think it's too much delayed now, so enjoy!

0.92

Overall:
New icons for:
- Necrolyte (unit)
- Sergeant Adams (unit)
- Sergeant Prior (unit)
- Arcanist (unit)
Holy Church => Church. New model (Ujimasa Hojo) and Custom Sound (Empire Earth).
Dalar Dawnweaver now has Cyclone instead of Blizzard.

Chapter Six:
Fixed an issue with optional quest.

Chapter Eight:
Improved AI.

New Bonus Chapter:
Added.

File is available on first post.

 

[krawg]

Hi, it's been a while uh?

I just added a new Chapter. I won't tell more as it's quite different than usual.

To be honest, I got a bit tired of "Draenn's Story" and started to work on other stuff, while keeping Alliance Ashes atmosphere.
This new map was nearly ready for a few months already because I wanted to upload it after Maporrino. But I think it's too much delayed now, so enjoy!

0.92

Overall:
New icons for:
- Necrolyte (unit)
- Sergeant Adams (unit)
- Sergeant Prior (unit)
- Arcanist (unit)
Holy Church => Church. New model (Ujimasa Hojo) and Custom Sound (Empire Earth).
Dalar Dawnweaver now has Cyclone instead of Blizzard.

Chapter Six:
Fixed an issue with optional quest.

Chapter Eight:
Improved AI.

New Bonus Chapter:
Added.

File is available on first post

welcome back mate your forgot file looking forward to play this new scarlet looking faction

 

[Tuwnew]

Alliance Ashes

/!\ WARNING - 1.31 IS REQUIRED /!\ What is it? While I loved the Blood Elves campaign, I always wanted to know more about the Humans and what they were going through during the Third War and its aftermath. This campaign is set during the same timeline as Curse of the Blood Elves, but told...

www.hiveworkshop.com

Here a public thread!

 

[Kasrkin]

Here we go again.

 

[Tuwnew]

Here we go again.

Honestly, not so much big change since your last playthrough! You might want to jump a few chapters (feel free to edit w3n file to show buttons)

 

[Mavcik]

Hey,

Replaying it again
question, is there difficulty button that i haven't noticed? I want to up it up a bit.

 

[Tuwnew]

Hey,

Replaying it again
question, is there difficulty button that i haven't noticed? I want to up it up a bit.

Hi! There is currently no difficulty option as the final product is not yet fully polished. I'm still making changes to the tech trees, units, and AI, so I prefer to finalize everything before working on balancing the difficulty.

How does it feel so far? Is it too easy, too difficult?




I’m also using this thread to ask for advice and feedback on Chapter Three. As you may know, it’s a 'hidden' defense mission. There’s a timer (35 minutes in the next release) that triggers an unbeatable final wave, which launches the ending cinematic."

Why?
Personally, I’m not a fan of defense missions for a few reasons. I feel like they’re oppressive, and just sitting behind barricades for 35 minutes doesn’t feel very engaging to me. I don’t find it fun knowing exactly how many minutes are left before I stop playing.

My original idea was to encourage players to try to destroy the Undead bases. I didn’t actually expect anyone to succeed, but surprisingly, some players have managed to do it. When they succeed, it’s supposed to trigger the final wave early.

To me, it seemed fine this way, but the reviews were kind of 'meh.' Do you have any advice on how I could improve this?

 

[Lightstrider]

Well I tried the first real chapter where the player get to Ambermill, and I have to say, the fact the ally's AI is rather lacking, they don't rebuild or making much of an effort to drive back the purple undead base, I think it is best if you tweak the allies' AI a bit so they can have a fighting chance.. or at least make it that is also easier to destroy the orange base I feel as though their upgrade is a bit.. not fair to the player.

 

[Tuwnew]

You're supposed to save them. If they destroy the Undead on their own, the quest becomes quite useless. And they do rebuild normally. What haven't they rebuild? If you speak of towers, sadly AI tends to build near Town Hall.

 

[Mavcik]

Hi Tuwnew,

The Chapter 7 kinda... re-created my Main Guy (Daern? Darren? xD) all of his items but the main one are gone and not sure why? That might be a bug not intented.
Chapter 2 if you kill the wolf priests before finishing purple base and pick up key before you get quest related to it, you cannot finish mission. You get soft-locked basically.
Chapter 3, i finished 4 out of 5 bases and was preparing infrastructure to siege last one when it started to swarm me . I would say make it defense mission with side quest to defeat enemy bases. And for each defeated enemy you can give small reward like an item or new unlock or something? You can make it "surive as long as possible" and bonus missions for destroying bases 1-3 for example. The reward can even be in further mission.
That one of the enemies that was defeated will be weakened because of it, or something like that?
It will intensify not just being defend mission while still keep being....a defend mission .
It's hard to make good defend mission, so making it be active and giving a boost that will carry on later seems like good way out.

AS for difficulty I'd say its between normal/hard. Since its mostly undead enemy has A LOT of curses and skellies, so you need to remember to cast dispels having variety army etc etc. But it's not as punishing as it could be for hard.
I'd say maknig 3 difficulties 1 easier and 1 harder and stating this as "normal"
These are my points ,
One more add. Add some kind of rewards for bonus quests, IE. in first mission when you save sorcerer league? give some item fitting the Sorceress, or access to new unit for this mission. Stuff like that, that will even further guide player that.... exploration and finishing side quests is good!
Edit: Chapter 7 is a prequel I seee it that now. Although maybe that would be nice way to start campaign with not put it in the middle? unsure Ill see how it follows forward.

 

[Mavcik]

Oh something I spotted. and kinda need explanation,
Abjurist and Priestess? I think they are suppose to be 1 unit, but Abjurist spells do not link to the research upgrades of "priestesess", Im not sure if you wanted to make 2 different units, or its same unit but not properly renamed researches and connections.
And same unit level Master Spell? how is that suppose to work? xD I thought it some mana renew spell. but it stops instantly after casting and I don't think it works properly? A bit confused there.

 

[Tuwnew]

Hi,

Chapter 7 is actually a flashback. You might have missed it, if you skipped Interlude Two. That's why it's a different model, differents items...etc. Why I put it in middle? For you to have an unlocked tech-tree

I just released a new version on public thread. It fixed Abjurist/Priestess issue and Chapter 2 key issue aswell.

Actually, saving Sorcerer's League grants you a new unit: Mage (which is either unlocked in Chapter 2).
But thanks for your suggestions!

 

[Mavcik]

Okay then i am not up to date and ended up looking like an jerk xD didn't mean to, but thanks for all that,
I really enjoy big macro missions and campaings that have that well covered so I'm enjoying my time

 

[Lugalu Enmirkar]

i really love this map and thank you for your effort and passion in making this bro! I was actually thinking of making a custom campaign around the Alliance Resistance and then I found this. Bro, if I can make a suggestion, you should take a look at custom models by bakr - his custom models are amazing and will definitely look good with your custom campaign.

 

[Tuwnew]

Hi everyone,

I have good news and bad news:

Bad news: not much of progress on the main storyline :c
Good news: I have been working on a new Undead Mission: a remake of the original Undead 02 ROC Campaign. Originally, I wanted you to play as Gavinrad the Dire, but it would be quite complicated for gameplay reasons (a defense mission is not really fun imo).
Anyway, I've been working a bit on tech-tree and terrain, you can check all of that in my album:

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/media/albums/alliance-ashes-album.9546/

 

[Tuwnew]

Sorry for the double-post, but I’ve been a bit stuck ever since the release of Reforged 2.0.

Before this campaign’s release (late September), I did all my work using version 1.31 (World Editor + Testing).
Since the release, I’ve continued working in 1.31 but have been testing in 1.36 to ensure compatibility with Reforged.

Now, I’m not sure what to do. My main issue is the Portrait bug. It seems like it can be fixed if I switch to the 2.0 World Editor, but doing so would mean I can’t go back to 1.31.
I’m holding out a bit of hope that Blizzard will fix the Portrait issue themselves, but I’m not counting on it.

Should I fully transition to the latest version?

 

[gaurdian of the flame]

Sorry for the double-post, but I’ve been a bit stuck ever since the release of Reforged 2.0.

Before this campaign’s release (late September), I did all my work using version 1.31 (World Editor + Testing).
Since the release, I’ve continued working in 1.31 but have been testing in 1.36 to ensure compatibility with Reforged.

Now, I’m not sure what to do. My main issue is the Portrait bug. It seems like it can be fixed if I switch to the 2.0 World Editor, but doing so would mean I can’t go back to 1.31.
I’m holding out a bit of hope that Blizzard will fix the Portrait issue themselves, but I’m not counting on it.

Should I fully transition to the latest version?

So to fix the problem you will deny those who still use 1.31 and refused to use reforged the ability to play your campaign tbh I think you should wait to blizzard to fix it

Also I remember that shar have talked about a way to fix the reforged 2.0 problem in the second human and second orc books comment sections I think you should try that first instead of make the decision to update the game to 2.0

 

[krawg]

Sorry for the double-post, but I’ve been a bit stuck ever since the release of Reforged 2.0.

Before this campaign’s release (late September), I did all my work using version 1.31 (World Editor + Testing).
Since the release, I’ve continued working in 1.31 but have been testing in 1.36 to ensure compatibility with Reforged.

Now, I’m not sure what to do. My main issue is the Portrait bug. It seems like it can be fixed if I switch to the 2.0 World Editor, but doing so would mean I can’t go back to 1.31.
I’m holding out a bit of hope that Blizzard will fix the Portrait issue themselves, but I’m not counting on it.

Should I fully transition to the latest version?

i would say stick to 1.3.1 reforged is going to be a disappointment like allawys they will never deliver it's only a last ditch attempt to get some more money from a game that was developed 20 years ago

 

[Mavcik]

Didn't they already fix the portrait bug? I thought it got resolved already?
I'm actually on the other side, would prefer the reforge, but not necessarily due to graphics but more for accessibility, camera movements some autosaves... But it's up to the developer ;D I'll prob play either way

 

[Tuwnew]

Hey guys,

I have renamed this thread "Development Thread" which sounds quite original, isn't it?
I want to keep it to discuss with us about some stuff I want to add and not pollute public thread.

A NEW MENU
As you may already know (and suffer from), each update messes with the buttons. As suggested by our dear deepstrasz, I am working on creating a "setup map."

This map will feature a single button when you access a new version of the campaign.

When you start this setup map, it will check your saved progress using the cache system. To make things less boring, it will include a small cinematic before automatically starting your next or last mission and restoring buttons accordingly.

This approach will allow me to release updates more frequently without feeling guilty about it

QWER SYSTEM
It’s been a long time since this was requested. I’ve already started working on it, but I had to do a quick release, so only a few heroes have it so far: Draenn, Diana, Saldor, and Finnall.

I still need to implement it for Emmerlan, Edmunson, Detheroc, Grim, Kristoff, and Theolen.

Should I extend this to units as well? Also, how do you think I should display it? Since the 2.0 update, it’s currently featured on the icons and tooltips.

CHAPTER THREE
This map is a bit of a nightmare, and it’s a hidden defense mission—because I hate timers (that’s a good enough reason, right?). However, I’ve realized how difficult it can be for players unaware of the mechanics (am I right @The Nightmare Book?)

I’m also not a fan of creating maps that only last 30 minutes, like Hearthglen’s defense. So here’s how the pacing currently breaks down:

• First Part: Approx. 15 minutes.
• First Wave: Approx. 10 minutes.
• Pure Defense: Exactly 35 minutes.
• Last Wave: Approx. 5 minutes.
• Total Gameplay: 1 hour and 5 minutes.

My idea is to add a slightly reduced timer:

• During the second phase, the First Wave lasts 10 minutes, giving players clear instructions/objectives. It doesn't need changes.
• Then, a "Counterattack" quest starts, giving you 15 minutes to go on the offensive. Which seems enough for the player to do stuff without being lost.
• Finally, it becomes clear you can’t win, leading to 20 minutes of pure defense.

Like that, you keep the 35 minutes of Pure Defense without it being nearly as long as Mount Hyjal Defense.
I think this structure makes the map more player-friendly. However, I feel the start of the timer needs more emphasis.

One idea is to create a special wave to destroy the blue base, signaling the shift.
What do you think?


That's it for today, feel free to give any advices or suggestions

 

[Footman16]

My idea is to add a slightly reduced timer:

• During the second phase, the First Wave lasts 10 minutes, giving players clear instructions/objectives. It doesn't need changes.
• Then, a "Counterattack" quest starts, giving you 15 minutes to go on the offensive. Which seems enough for the player to do stuff without being lost.
• Finally, it becomes clear you can’t win, leading to 20 minutes of pure defense.

Like that, you keep the 35 minutes of Pure Defense without it being nearly as long as Mount Hyjal Defense.
I think this structure makes the map more player-friendly. However, I feel the start of the timer needs more emphasis.

One idea is to create a special wave to destroy the blue base, signaling the shift.
What do you think?

I think these are all things that are very hard to communicate through pure gameplay and the layout of the map, the easier solution is to use dialogue to inform or imply the information above. Whilst as a mapmaker we sometimes think we've made things obvious, as a new player you know nothing; in that sense it's always better to over inform and be clear to the player what is intended and what they should be doing (through quests, dialogue etc) this isn't a puzzle map and if the player isn't sure what they're meant to be doing that is an issue.

This is just my perspective from my own experiences. You don't need to have a timer, but I think you need to make each stage clear to the player or communicate it somehow and make sure there's maybe a couple dialogues throughout so that the player doesn't think the waves are continuous and the map is bugged.

 

[Tuwnew]

I think these are all things that are very hard to communicate through pure gameplay and the layout of the map, the easier solution is to use dialogue to inform or imply the information above. Whilst as a mapmaker we sometimes think we've made things obvious, as a new player you know nothing; in that sense it's always better to over inform and be clear to the player what is intended and what they should be doing (through quests, dialogue etc) this isn't a puzzle map and if the player isn't sure what they're meant to be doing that is an issue.

This is just my perspective from my own experiences. You don't need to have a timer, but I think you need to make each stage clear to the player or communicate it somehow and make sure there's maybe a couple dialogues throughout so that the player doesn't think the waves are continuous and the map is bugged.

You may be right... In my last update, I added a constant wave of various Undead to give a feeling of siege. Maybe with some more dialogues, it might be enough to make it clearer.

Thank you for your words

 

[Navy45]

Should I extend this to units as well?

I thinks extending it to units would be really good ! Personnally, having this kind of easy to remember/access hotkeys is what makes me able to use some spells. With multiple heroes and a lot of spellcasters, I have to prioritize my micro and I end up not having the time to cast a lot of spells that would useful (like slow or fairy fire) because I have to focus on casting more powerful abilities and it's not worth taking the time to remember and access whatever hotkey they have in the base game.

One idea is to create a special wave to destroy the blue base, signaling the shift.
What do you think?

Personally, I really like having the blue base in the defense section, trying to hold on to it and eventually having to abandon it is quite cinematic. Maybe if there was a dialogue like 2 minutes before the attack of a scout informing us that a lot of undead are amassing close by and Draenn responded by explicitly ordering all forces back to the base to endure the attack, it would be clear enoug that the player has to draw back, and it would give him a bit of time to get back to base and get a few more units out if he just lost his army.

Maybe the best way to make sure the player understands could be to make it a cinematic. It doesn't have to be long or complex, it could just be Draenn talking with a scout, but the simple fact it's a cinematic means the player cannot miss it and understands that he's in a new part of the level.

 

[Tuwnew]

As mentioned in the latest Alliance Ashes update, I've been working on a new subfaction for the Undead Scourge: the Cult of the Damned.
Forgive the video quality, but it should give you a small glimpse of what's to come.