(1) Project Y4: A Total Conversion

[RiotZ]

I'd like to cite Quake II as a stylistic influence here. And Unreal Tournament.

If I was born twenty years earlier, I could probably have been a successful shovelware modeller in the mid 90s. Since this is the new millenium... I mod.

I don't get why people call my style cartoony. Low-poly, yes, low-detail, yes, angular shapes -- fine. But, as far as I'm aware, "cartoony" is exaggerated shapes and obvious lines and lighting, and (believe it or not) all of the models are actually constructed roughly to scale. The standard RDZ Industries cockpit module, for example, is designed to accommodate a man of my stature (albeit a little scrunched up, half-seated). Any issues of exaggeration are because my eye-sight is wonky or I'm terrible at estimating how much space you need for big piles of machinery, not because I'm intentionally bigging things up.

TL;DR things are brick-shaped because I'm a modernist. It just so happens ogre_icwydt that my stylistic desires coincide with the fundamentally angular world of polygonal 3D geometry.

I didn't say I don't like the style, it is just strange. I'd say the fact that none of the skins have shading or highlights is what makes them cartoony.

 

[Tleno]

Erm dude, can't say that WC3 has very advanced Shading and Highlights tech. You now, it's pretty outdated and was even firstly programmed on DirectX 8...

And, actually, I seriously support this geometricalness of the whole thing - I myself get along more well while drawing something more of geometrical shape-like stuff like vehicles or buildings than living things. Besides, everyone gives tributes to old retro games, why can't RDZ do that?

 

[Kithraya]

Erm dude, can't say that WC3 has very advanced Shading and Highlights tech. You now, it's pretty outdated and was even firstly programmed on DirectX 8...

I can't say that WC3 not has any shading or highlights tech. Shadows in WC3 are simple squares, but at least some are, but in this map aren't. There are many, really many ways to increase model look. For example: Additive/Modulate materials and add shadows to the texture, which here also would be imparted.
Or use day-night models with special, global lighting.

---

I didn't say I don't like the style, it is just strange. I'd say the fact that none of the skins have shading or highlights is what makes them cartoony.

This map has its own specific style, and if everything is done in the same way, then it looks (good) and you should accept it.

 

[RiotZ]

Erm dude, can't say that WC3 has very advanced Shading and Highlights tech. You now, it's pretty outdated and was even firstly programmed on DirectX 8...

And, actually, I seriously support this geometricalness of the whole thing - I myself get along more well while drawing something more of geometrical shape-like stuff like vehicles or buildings than living things. Besides, everyone gives tributes to old retro games, why can't RDZ do that?

A full conversion is very distant from that of WC3. Most skins (NOT BLIZZARD SKINS) use a lot of shading and highlights to give the appearance of realism. These skins don't really use any of the above, which makes them seem strange. Though I do enjoy the idea of very symmetrical geometric models. xD

 

[Tleno]

People, just screw realism, okay? Who needs shadows anyways? I mean, not like you can make some good looking shadows in WC3, and the game is good looking without them.

 

[Kithraya]

... and the game is good looking without them.

Sorry, but I don't think so. ;p

 

[Tleno]

Well, if you wanna hear my opinion, the game may work great without any shadows. Of course, if it's some creepy horror game with lots of darkness, it's a must, but why the hell would a game with robots on soem far away planet need shadows?

 

[Deolrin]

I think... That you have absolutely on idea what 'shadows' are, in this context.
Nonetheless, this discussion is retarded. It's not like RDZ is going to change the artistic style of the game just because some people complain about it.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

I think I have demonstrated enough in-game screenshots that there should be no ambiguity regarding the use of light in the project, so I don't understand why Tleno is using words like "may": either the game looks good or it does not. If you don't think it looks good, you are free to leave at any time.

As Deolrin says, I'm not going to change.

 

[RiotZ]

I think... That you have absolutely on idea what 'shadows' are, in this context.
Nonetheless, this discussion is retarded. It's not like RDZ is going to change the artistic style of the game just because some people complain about it.

I don't think anyone is complaining, but I'm just cool like that.

 

[Gausslander]

It's almost impossible to fathom how much time was spent on this project in its entirety. Insulting the artistic quality of either the skins or models of this project is both demeaning and insulting to RDZ and this site as a whole.

 

[RiotZ]

It's almost impossible to fathom how much time was spent on this project in its entirety. Insulting the artistic quality of either the skins or models of this project is both demeaning and insulting to RDZ and this site as a whole.

Lolk.

Btw does this remind anyone of Mech Warriors?

 

[Tleno]

Erm, well, yes, if a game is about mechs that's already enough to get nostalgic about Mech Warriors.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Well, I guess we could stop arguing about whether the models looks like mechs or not so yeah, just appreciate the map.
To me, it's probably one of the best maps I've ever seen, considering it's a single player RPG made from scratch by a single person

PS: Well, there's Requiem too but, that's another story...

So anyway, how's the progress?

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

So anyway, how's the progress?

Quite slow going. My parents just got a new computer so I lost a lot of time in the last week nuking the old one and prepping their photo collection for transfer (via my external HD, naturally).

I have recently made a new HoverCon drone unit, the Predator, because I wasn't happy with the heavy HC2 that was providing backup to the Hunter-Killers. It's a slightly heavier HK with cannons, so nothing much to note.

The HoverCon Porta-Factories have also been annoying me for a while. I've got sketches of proper re-builds, so I just need to pull my finger out and actually make them.

And all the G1 props to do. I've got the Knight and the Cavalier geometry pretty much all done, but I'm still working on the Conquistador (a super-long-range sniper-cannon turret). And I need some giant drill rigs and other gubbins, plus the Mogul boss unit.

So much to do!

EDIT: attached a WIP of the new HCPF. In the game, the factory unit will be hanging beneath the jet carrier -- on death, the jet will topple and unleash a devastating explosion.

 

[RiotZ]

Quite slow going. My parents just got a new computer so I lost a lot of time in the last week nuking the old one and prepping their photo collection for transfer (via my external HD, naturally).

I have recently made a new HoverCon drone unit, the Predator, because I wasn't happy with the heavy HC2 that was providing backup to the Hunter-Killers. It's a slightly heavier HK with cannons, so nothing much to note.

The HoverCon Porta-Factories have also been annoying me for a while. I've got sketches of proper re-builds, so I just need to pull my finger out and actually make them.

And all the G1 props to do. I've got the Knight and the Cavalier geometry pretty much all done, but I'm still working on the Conquistador (a super-long-range sniper-cannon turret). And I need some giant drill rigs and other gubbins, plus the Mogul boss unit.

So much to do!

EDIT: attached a WIP of the new HCPF. In the game, the factory unit will be hanging beneath the jet carrier -- on death, the jet will topple and unleash a devastating explosion.

I like the design of it, very original.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Back from my exams!
And I'm glad to say that I'm gonna be active once again in supporting RDZ, keep up the good work with it heh, been surfing through the pictures

 

[RiotZ]

Gotta love Nasa RDZ.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Gotta love Nasa RDZ.

Aye. When are we going back to the Moon?

Oh wait, we never went in the first place, hurfa-durfa.

Remember when, instead of wars, we had massive penis-length competitions like getting to the Moon? Okay, we had nukes too, but nobody actually fired one.



There haven't been any progress updates on this for a while because I've been playing Little Big Adventure and Drakensang: The River of Time. I'm currently considering my options for camera systems, which I will present in a blog this weekend.

I have been sprucing up the HoverCon quest with some on/off electric fence traps, I've also changed the suicide drone so it's a generic barrel-carrier that can be spawned as Explosive/EMP/Gas same as the normal barrels. Other improvements and stuff too.

 

[Tleno]

electric fences? Will they just be obstacles for palyer, or will you be able to trigger them for your own use too, like to fry enemies chasing you?

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

electric fences? Will they just be obstacles for palyer, or will you be able to trigger them for your own use too, like to fry enemies chasing you?

They periodically switch on and off. Anything intersecting the beams when they are on will take X damage per second.

The fence posts are behind impenetrable barriers that get power from the main HCPF, so they cannot be disabled until this structure has been destroyed.

 

[RiotZ]

Remember when, instead of wars, we had massive penis-length competitions like getting to the Moon?

Lol, I never really thought about it that way, but now that I do, that's pretty much what it was.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

I ask a question in this developer diary. It's quite a big question, so some thoughtful responses would be appreciated.



And here's a quick one for free. Smoke grenades that disable attacks inside the cloud (i.e. Cloud ability): undercarriage launcher or artillery shell mod?

 

[Tleno]

Artilery shell mod. I mean, if you could launch ordinary shells and make enemies blind... would be pretty too strong. I mean, I imagine the smoke working more of a thing to force enemies come closer to attack you and allow you to beat them from close than as addition to the devasating artilery payload.

 

[Deolrin]

I've actually thought about this for a while, and...
In my humble opinion, in a game with artillery shells, EMP blasts and the ability to blow up barrels, you will have to see at least somewhat far away, to detect enemies and blast them before they see you. So, if it were up to me, I'd go with either Freecam or the Middle Way, leaning towards freecam(because honestly, locked camera controls in Warcraft III are very, very annoying).

...On the other hand, I really like the whole 'localized events' idea you have for the locked camera, as well as the 'holomap'. Those are a couple of really, REALLY good ideas that I, personally, wouldn't want to sacrifice just because I'm uncomfortable with a locked camera.

Oh, and artillery shell mod. Because smoke grenades would(I believe) only force the enemy to immediately run towards you(UNLESS, of course, you not only disable their attack, but also disable their ability to see you, e.g line of sight, and give them Wander until they exit the cloud... That will really make it seem like the enemy is lost inside a cloud of smoke, and not just out of ammo and forced into melee range. If you can do something like that, that's the ideal idea, and I'd love that much more than the artillery shell). And undercarriage launchers\guns\whatever are just silly, and everyone will be making lame phallic jokes. Cough, cough Goliath.

 

[RiotZ]

Make the camera physically locked to the target from a distance of the player's choosing. If you made the terrain perfect and pulled out no stops, detailing areas even where you normally would not see, then using a rotating camera lock, based on the units facing, would be acceptable. If you do this, make it slow, fast rotating cams on a unit that probably rotates a lot, I remember this from Mech Warriors, , will make you super dizzy, or disorient you.

I would go with smoke, but make it short enough where it's the weapon of a pro, it gives you just enough time to squeeze in some critical blows before your enemy strikes again. Also to make it give a miniscule slowing neg buff, the one tornado uses is what I use.

 

[Tleno]

But wait... will it make you unable to attack if you'll get in AoE, too?

 

[RiotZ]

But wait... will it make you unable to attack if you'll get in AoE, too?

It should? But you would be shooting it very long distances to shut down ranged powerhouses.

 

[cohadar]

I wonder if this will be finished before Chinese land on the Moon.

 

[RiotZ]

I wonder if this will be finished before Chinese land on the Moon.

On that time course we'll all be dead. :S

 

[Tleno]

Well, not like quite a lot of modders, Rao seems to be more dedicated to his project. Plus it's one-man project, so no way the project will be frozen because of project team crumbling.

 

[RiotZ]

Well, not like quite a lot of modders, Rao seems to be more dedicated to his project. Plus it's one-man project, so no way the project will be frozen because of project team crumbling.

I would continue my project even if the team crumbled. :|

 

[Tleno]

Yea, and what if you have no modeling or other resource making skills, and all your team members who can just don't bother making the stuff they should?

 

[RiotZ]

Yea, and what if you have no modeling or other resource making skills, and all your team members who can just don't bother making the stuff they should?

They should try...

Team leader should have all necessary skills to a level of apprentice.

 

[Tleno]

Well, do you realise there aren't much people like that?
Besides, true leader doesn't need anything but leadership skills - everything else will be done for him.

 

[RiotZ]

Well, do you realise there aren't much people like that?
Besides, true leader doesn't need anything but leadership skills - everything else will be done for him.

That's retarded to lazily order people to do things for you, and then reap the reward of the final product.
I loath anyone with this ambition.


That's off-topic enough I'd say.

Updates RDZ?

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

That's retarded to lazily order people to do things for you, and then reap the reward of the final product.
I loath anyone with this ambition.

And this is why most of these giant uber-imba teams do disintegrate -- because the person at the top doesn't actually have a clue and wants everyone else to do the real work. Well, and you can't really trust anyone else to be 100% committed to your idea because it's not theirs and you're not offering any reward.

If people just designed projects within their own limitations instead of trying to make something bigger than everyone else...

Well, we'd have a lot more finished projects.

Updates RDZ?

Hrmm.

Well, experiments with The Middle Way of camera-lock by Callahan's suggestion of setting the camera bounds have been successful, aside from an annoying flickering white line on the mini-map (going to investigate masking that with some kind of segmentation by white lines on the map image).

I've been tidying up some computer text files which were getting a little inconsistent, but I can't show any of them because potential spoilers.

I have also been working a little with ruined buildings, to add a more concrete indication that some small battles have actually been fought.

Did I mention I bought Crysis Maximum Edition last weekend? Finished CrysisWARHEAD on Saturday but it and the main game swallowed plenty of time in between.

 

[RiotZ]

And this is why most of these giant uber-imba teams do disintegrate -- because the person at the top doesn't actually have a clue and wants everyone else to do the real work. Well, and you can't really trust anyone else to be 100% committed to your idea because it's not theirs and you're not offering any reward.

If people just designed projects within their own limitations instead of trying to make something bigger than everyone else...

Well, we'd have a lot more finished projects.


Hrmm.

Well, experiments with The Middle Way of camera-lock by Callahan's suggestion of setting the camera bounds have been successful, aside from an annoying flickering white line on the mini-map (going to investigate masking that with some kind of segmentation by white lines on the map image).

I've been tidying up some computer text files which were getting a little inconsistent, but I can't show any of them because potential spoilers.

I have also been working a little with ruined buildings, to add a more concrete indication that some small battles have actually been fought.

Did I mention I bought Crysis Maximum Edition last weekend? Finished CrysisWARHEAD on Saturday but it and the main game swallowed plenty of time in between.

Might I recommend something for unit portraits, just something I think would fit really well.

If you take the name of a model you import and set the name like this Footman_Portrait.mdx, you can essentially replace the portrait of the Footman with said model. So you can get some really cool effects with this, for example making an unanimated portrait, or adding a type of low signal strength blur to an animated portrait.

As for the minimap, I would say making a custom texture for the minimap would fix this possibly, or like you said, editing the ui to make it look more natural when it flickers, something to that effect.

 

[Callahan]

You could use a radar grid texture for the minimap and just use it as a local radar like in fps game.
Then use a holo-map ability to show world map.The minimap is not as important in a RPG than an RTS you only need it for a few moment to know where you are and where you must go.You don't need to constantly know the global location of enemy troops in real time like in rts.
And It will be the occasion to make something more elaborated than just a crappy rts minimap.
Like adding the name of different areas.A pointer to indicate your objectif etc...
I think it will be actualy better this way.That was something weird in This wreckage to see those neutral unit patroling on the minimap.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Then use a holo-map ability to show world map.The minimap is not as important in a RPG than an RTS you only need it for a few moment to know where you are and where you must go.You don't need to constantly know the global location of enemy troops in real time like in rts.

Aye. The problem is that WC3's minimap is impossible to get rid of, so previously it's been a case of "there's nothing much I can do so just roll with it". Hell, I'd gladly drop it entirely to squidge the whole interface down and get more actual game world on screen.

And It will be the occasion to make something more elaborated than just a crappy rts minimap.
Like adding the name of different areas.A pointer to indicate your objectif etc...
I think it will be actualy better this way.That was something weird in This wreckage to see those neutral unit patroling on the minimap.

I want to do more with the minimap too, but it's just not possible. Every time the camera bounds are changed, the minimap flickers as the units and bounds (if they're the wrong shape) are re-populated. There appears to be absolutely no way around this (although, curiously, the hero in the centre never flickers).

So I thought I might try to destroy the minimap entirely by putting a slab over it on the interface model; but either the UI model didn't overload (most likely) or the minimap is drawn on top of everything anyway (probably also true).

Basically, it's come down to the point where the minimap will show where the camera is in relation to the hero. I've hidden all unit display to avoid flickering, and I've set up the ratio of width to height so that the flickering white lines are disappeared. I've already got interface inconsistencies like having damage and armour values always being 0 + value, so adding one more to the pile shouldn't be particularly deal-breaking.



Now, I'd like to announce my intention to implement a special death system for the Delta enemies. For those who have forgotten, the Delta is a very widely-used multi-purpose two-legged chassis that can equip a variety of weapons and shields and so will be (in some form) your most common adversary.

Thanks to my sweet Anitarf providing the code, I now have a system that can detect what angle the enemy was destroyed from (relative to its own facing) -- and thereby spawn the correct generic death model so that the Delta will fall over in the correct direction (and then decay as normal).

I'm only doing this for the Delta, as other units are too big (or too small) to fall over in this manner (or, like Firegun, explode and leave nothing but a pair of feet).

 

[Deolrin]

Can't you, in theory, just take all of the textures from the minimap(e.g the hero rectangle, the minimap bounds, etc) and overwrite them with blank files? And then just use a "custom minimap" image?

That way, you could completely get rid of the minimap... Assuming that's possible.

 

[RiotZ]

Wow that death animation sounds epic.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Can't you, in theory, just take all of the textures from the minimap(e.g the hero rectangle, the minimap bounds, etc) and overwrite them with blank files? And then just use a "custom minimap" image?

That way, you could completely get rid of the minimap... Assuming that's possible.

Do you know how many of the things you just mentioned are not images?

I'll give you three guesses.

 

[Deolrin]

But surely, a model, or otherwise some kind of a file, exists. With your skills, I'm sure you can edit those, assuming you can find them. I remember seeing things similar to what I'm talking about in the MPQs, but that was a long time ago.

 

[RiotZ]

Do you know how many of the things you just mentioned are not images?

I'll give you three guesses.

He's right, you could edit the MPQ, also you could delete the hero rectangles just by unchecking them in the unit's data lol. I'm probably going to do this, and get rid of the minimap as much as possible.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

He's right, you could edit the MPQ, also you could delete the hero rectangles just by unchecking them in the unit's data lol. I'm probably going to do this, and get rid of the minimap as much as possible.

I have already removed minimap display of all units; this is not the problem.

To kill the minimap entirely there is the trifling matter of the camera shape, which is not image nor model but is four lines drawn on the screen regardless of all else. They cannot be erased. They cannot be overriden nor replaced because they are not generated from any resource.

The same goes for map bounds. As stated earlier, the bounds can be knocked out by making sure they are not square in the correct proportions so they are sized out of the minimap box (I thought making them square would do this, but apparently they need to be taller than they are wide). Even so, when they do appear, they are lines.

If you know how to get rid of these lines by "just editing the MPQ", then please do tell.

And don't tell me DLL injection. ("Okay, I won't tell you that.")

 

[RiotZ]

I have already removed minimap display of all units; this is not the problem.

To kill the minimap entirely there is the trifling matter of the camera shape, which is not image nor model but is four lines drawn on the screen regardless of all else. They cannot be erased. They cannot be overriden nor replaced because they are not generated from any resource.

The same goes for map bounds. As stated earlier, the bounds can be knocked out by making sure they are not square in the correct proportions so they are sized out of the minimap box (I thought making them square would do this, but apparently they need to be taller than they are wide). Even so, when they do appear, they are lines.

If you know how to get rid of these lines by "just editing the MPQ", then please do tell.

And don't tell me DLL injection. ("Okay, I won't tell you that.")

Everything is generated from somewhere, the things Blizzard doesn't want you editing, or wants hidden more thoroughly, are in the MPQ, I'm sure there is a model for the minimap itself, the white lines, and maps bounds, fog of war, etc, inside of the MPQ somewhere, just get an editor, and start looking around.

Also, you will probably need to add a new file, a text file, to change the MPQ, or possibly a DLL, but, okay I won't tell you that. :S

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

I think you all want to go to the ModDB profile and vote for Y4 as Mod of the Year!

 

[Deolrin]

Done n' done.

 

[RiotZ]

Voted, watched the video, checked some of the pics, and I now have decided, I really love the "cartoonish" style, it is very stylistic.

Will the chassis or, torso of the mechs rotate when aiming at a target? As opposed to the entire unit rotating. And this would be an awesome competitive multiplayer game I'd say.

Loading screen is fucking sexy too.