1.2B Hero UI overhaul

[ALEXz407]

Last update brought us a new hero UI that contains all functions in the Hero command card.
I suggest to divide battle functions from others and place them in the Hero command card without additional spellbooks, so you can access them easily.

Goals of this poll:
1. Find out how many people support suggested interface.
2. Find out why people support current interface, if they vote for it.

Poll rules:
1. When voting, consider only your gameplay comfort. Development time should not influence your decision.
2. If you vote for current interface, please, write why it's better than suggested.

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Divided interface

v 2.0

v1.0

The word "divided" means separation of battle buttons from optional buttons.

Presentation with all suggested UI changes

v1.0

Show presentation

v1.0 buttons

X Attack / Pet Attack This is standart attack button. Behaviour based on selected target: Enemy - releases your minions upon the target. Friend - you start attacking a friend with base attacks.

/

C Toggle Pet Behaviour Cooldown: 0.5s This button works like toggleable ability. By default it's inactive. Inactive - Shield icon, Defensive pet behaviour. Active - Sword icon, Agressive pet behaviour. Also, you can place here additional info about pets and mercenaries. Like "Mercenaries can be hired in villages from special NPC." and "You can revive or dismiss your mercenary with special buttons in your backpack."

C Attack Standart attack button. You can add here a tooltip about shortcuts: "Shortcuts: F1 Your hero - Your Spells, Equipped items and Pet control. F2 Backpack - Talents, Game options, Mercenary control and other, also backpack for items. F3 Material bag - Materials for crafting."

X Pet Attack Standart pet attack button. You can add here tooltips about pets and mercenaries, Like: "Mercenaries can be hired in villages from special NPC." and "You can revive or dismiss your mercenary with special buttons in your backpack."

Z Rest / Retreat Cooldown: 0.5s, doesn't cancel current order. Behaviour based on battle mode: Peaceful - hero stops and falls asleep. Regenerates 5% HP & MP each second. In battle / Stealth - calls back your minions.

Ability placehoder Just dummy passive with info tooltip. It shows total amount of possible abilities and helps a player with info in tooltip: "You can learn additional abilities from class trainers in villages and from scrolls."

All non-combat buttons and spellbooks are in a backpack.

Pros:
- All at your fingertips. Just select the hero and you can use abilities and command your minions.
- Easy interface. Beginners do not get confused with many buttons at the game start.
- "WOW! effect". Have you seen this layout somewhere? No? This will attract player's attention to the buttons, and here good tooltips will help him.

v1.0

- All minions controls are on the screen, grouped and have comfortable shortcuts.

Cons:
- The standard attack button is assigned to C, pet attack to X and rest to Z. You should read tooltip to find it.

Solution

Can be solved with a simple message when player taking new hero:
"Use Z Rest to restore health and mana.
Release your pets and mercenaries upon a enemy with X Pet Attack.
Attack enemies with right click, or C Attack."

- All non-combat buttons are in a backpack, newbies can miss them.

Solution

Can be solved with a simple message too:
"Shortcuts:
F1 Your hero - Your Spells, Equipped items and Pet control.
F2 Backpack - Talents, Game options, Mercenary control and other, also backpack for items.
F3 Material bag - Materials for crafting."

v1.0

- The standard attack button is assigned to X and rest to Z. You should read tooltip to find it.

Solution

Can be solved with a simple message when player taking new hero:
"Use Z Rest to restore health and mana.
Attack enemies with right click, or X Attack."

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Current interface

You all know it, go straight to the pros and cons.

Pros:
- All game functions is on the hero command panel, newbies will not miss any of them.
- Standart shortcuts for M Move, S Stop, A Attack and R Rest.

Cons:
- You must open you spellbook every time, when you deselect hero accidentally or for checking target's buffs/hp/mana etc.
- Changing pet behaviour in the battle is really painful, because you must do too many clicks for it.
- Too much similar to the standard interface, newbies can ignore 'Options' and 'Rest' because they are at standart buttons locations and have same color scheme with standart buttons.

Compare

- Most of the command card buttons is very rarely used: Talents each 5 levels, Talents archive only if you checking your build, Options at the game start, Dismiss/Revive Mercenary only if it needed, Roll only if you killed a boss, Attack only in some encounters, Move and Stop - useless.

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What do you think about this?

Attachments

 

[BoxOfFaith]

I like having the basic command options present when first selecting a character. Having to open a spell book to cast spells feels intuitive to me. Having so many options on the backpack with your suggestion is very counter-intuitive. Its hard enough teaching people that their backpack even exists half the time.

Besides, I see no need to trying to make the game 'hyper efficient' by having everything at the ready at all times. I really don't see whats so difficult about pressing f1 and then q to reselect your hero and get into the spells. Its very fast and easy for me.

Though I do agree Game options and Rest should probably stick out a bit more .

 

[Devlain]

I like the suggested interface because I was never a supporter of spellbooks in RPG's, but I think z/x/c are extremly uncomfortable bounds.
Toggle mercenary behavior shoudn't be on the main screen. It is not needed as a quick bound.
Also, I really like to have Attack and Mercenary attack separated =o.
Anyways, I voted for your suggestion because I like it more than the actual UI

 

[Jumbo]

I really like the idea of getting rid of hero ability spellbook, simply because it increases hero effectiveness by a small percentage. When there is lag, this percentage will increase drastically as the game doesn't have to open a spellbook first before the spell hotkeys can be clicked, something which can be a pain with delay.

For newcomers, this will also (like you already said) be more easy to understand at first sight.

However, I don't like the idea of having interface on the backpack, simply because it doesn't seem intuitive that a bag for storage should be an options menu. This is the function the bag had before, and I didn't like it, but I can live with it.

Because of these things I am for the change although I don't like all the effects of it.

EDIT: I agree with Devlain that x/c are slightly akward hotkeys rest and attack although I dont mind Z.

 

[kevs926]

the deselect and Q problem is really annoying.

 

[ALEXz407]

I apologize in advance if the tone of some my questions too rough. I just want to get to the truth.

I like having the basic command options present when first selecting a character.

Emmm, why? I mean is it interesting and fun for new player?
Usually players starts a RPG with trying to kill very first mob, sometimes even skipping quests.
Will be options button useful for this? Doesn't it create distraction from main fun process?

Having to open a spell book to cast spells feels intuitive to me.

Because this workaround used in all Warcraft III custom maps to increase available spells from 6 to 11.
But why use it if you can make everything work without it?

Having so many options on the backpack with your suggestion is very counter-intuitive. Its hard enough teaching people that their backpack even exists half the time.

It isn't counter-intuitive. The only thing that it requires - tell the player that there are additional useful options. This can be done using:
- Little training at the game start (maybe quest?): use toggle pet behaviour, use toggle camera option. That's all - player now knows where are buttons!
- 'Welcome' messages after starting a game (examples in first post)
- Tooltips on main buttons

And here is an example of really counter-intuitive design:
Picking up an item into your backpack.
- You trying to pick it up, but it say you error 'You are already wearing an item of this type' or 'Your class can not use this item'.
- It doesn't say you that this item can be put in a backpack.
- You just leave item alone, thinking what it works as intended.
And the community doesn't say what it's bad, everyone just telling again and again "-Hey! You can use your backpack to take all items and sell them to a merchant".
That why [thread=261835]backpack pickup[/thread] suggestion is awesome. IDK why Zwieb doesn't implement it earlier, it looks pretty simple to do (redirect pick up order to backpack if hero can not pick up an item, maybe here is some techical limitations?).

Besides, I see no need to trying to make the game 'hyper efficient' by having everything at the ready at all times. I really don't see whats so difficult about pressing f1 and then q to reselect your hero and get into the spells. Its very fast and easy for me.

It's not 'hyper efficient'. It's called user-friendly

Toggle mercenary behavior shoudn't be on the main screen. It is not needed as a quick bound.

I saw a few of the Druids and Necromancers with another opinion.

Also, I really like to have Attack and Mercenary attack separated =o.

Please, write why it will be more useful, than suggested variant, with real use cases.

I like the suggested interface because I was never a supporter of spellbooks in RPG's, but I think z/x/c are extremly uncomfortable bounds.

EDIT: I agree with Devlain that x/c are slightly akward hotkeys rest and attack although I dont mind Z.

Let's be realistic. Here the keyboard layout for A-W-E-R-B hand positioning.

Show keyboard layout

Red area - buttons that can not be used as a shortcuts.
Green area - best shortcuts for abilities.
White area - still acceptable, but requires hand rotation.
Blue area - not acceptable, too far away.
Yellow area - suggested for pet control, attack and rest.

As you can see there is no better places for this buttons. Green area already occupied with current abilities. If you place buttons in white area, new abilities for classes will use Z,X,C - and this will be really fingerbreaking, because abilities usually used more often than pet controls and attack.

but I see a good opportunity here: use Z for Rest/Retreat because it is directly under the little finger. Then Toggle pet behaviour will use C shortcut. I will add it to the first post. Thanks.

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Thank you all for detailed answers. Of course it would be good to hear more opinions!

 

[oger-lord]

I think the idea to change the interface is interesting.
For the usability it is handy to seperate combat and skill system/additional features.
People use spellbooks because this was the way to deal with the wc3 limitation.
On the other hand most people adapted to this style.

I am not a Gaias expert, so I have two question:
1.Do you think it could be a problem that attack and pet attack are on the same button?
I mean when you missclick the destructable and suddenly your low hp pets starts to attack.
2. Why not use the standard hotkeys for attack/hold?
You have more green buttons on the keyboard than you can have different abilities at the same time.
(I must admit that I am someone who uses the mouse 95% of the time)

 

[ALEXz407]

1.Do you think it could be a problem that attack and pet attack are on the same button?
I mean when you missclick the destructable and suddenly your low hp pets starts to attack.

I think this will be no problem at all.
[post=2641885]Here is[/post] Zwiebelchen's post about how it could work. I guess pet will ignore this command (also I can't remember any destructables in Gaias)

2. Why not use the standard hotkeys for attack/hold?

Because:
- They occupy a very handy shortcuts, but used rarely.
- Many realized abilities use these buttons. If you move this abilities from spellbook to one command card with attack/hold, they will confict. You will use Attack instead of Ability with A shortcut.

You have more green buttons on the keyboard than you can have different abilities at the same time.
(I must admit that I am someone who uses the mouse 95% of the time)

Warcraft III limitations. Each ability must have its own button, or they will conflict and only first of them will use this shortcut.
This is not a problem if you click on the abilities with mouse, but shortcuts will be faster.

 

[Xonok]

There's one more reason why having abilities in the command card helps. You can have 1 version of each ability per slot, in order to allow basing hotkeys on slots, not abilities. Thus resolving all hotkey conflicts.

 

[GasQueen]

I like the current UI, and I don't like the one suggested. I see nothing wrong with the current one; I never heard anyone or read anything related to a complaining with the UI. And personally, I'd like gaias to keep the classic UI Warcraft has.

 

[Devlain]

I've writed a super-long post and misspressed "back" in my navigator -.-

So, this is the short version of my answer:

1-This thread is super-fun and interesting
2-I use druid and still don't know why I want to have my pets in agressive (they are all time in defensive)
3-If pet attack/attack where combined, then I would need more clicks and commands to manage aggro away from my character sending my pets/potatos/chewbacas/minions/mercenaries/snowmans to attack the aggro'ed mob while I send my character back to stop attacking that mob.
4-Basically, I can live with the issue described in 3#, but to send my pets to attack an aggro'ed mob using 'X' while leaving my character to do whatever he was doing (by exaple: casting) is a thing I do A LOT.

EDIT: I have to add that I preffer to have Attack in 'A', pet attack in 'X' and rest/retreat in 'c'
This gives us:
QWERT
SDFG
to put 9 skills =P

Another one (i think, more visually consistent) is to put the skills in:
ERT
DFG
CVB

But they are only suggestions and braingstorming, I'm not an expert in game development and controls design =P

 

[Ihazdialup]

Wheres patrol, wheres hold positions (actually we dont have those currently and its kinda pissing me off) I hate this because theres a lot of basic commands that are useful albeit rarely, but still useful.

Also I still hate that because what if I need to use retreat outside of combat this wont allow for that.

Then theres the having to target the same thing as my pet, thats VERY inconvenient imo during a fight that you want your pet to aggro something else while you fight the main boss or w/e, so you tell it to go attack it, it'll be very annoying being a melee character trying to run over and attack that as well while your merc attacks it.

X to me seems a very inconvenient attack hotkey.

Then lastly this is probably my own opinion, I feel like this ruins the feel of gaias, but thats just my opinion

 

[kevs926]

there's no need for pet behaviour toggle here

better split attack and pet attack

 

[grekern]

I prefer the old system. I use the pet commands a lot both as hunter and druid and it would be annoying to not be able to control them.

I do feels that it is a bit crude to squeeze it all together so much. The inconvenience of having to enter the spell book is there but personally, I like to have them separate.

 

[ALEXz407]

Then theres the having to target the same thing as my pet, thats VERY inconvenient imo during a fight that you want your pet to aggro something else while you fight the main boss or w/e, so you tell it to go attack it, it'll be very annoying being a melee character trying to run over and attack that as well while your merc attacks it.

more quotes

3-If pet attack/attack where combined, then I would need more clicks and commands to manage aggro away from my character sending my pets/potatos/chewbacas/minions/mercenaries/snowmans to attack the aggro'ed mob while I send my character back to stop attacking that mob.

better split attack and pet attack

I prefer the old system. I use the pet commands a lot both as hunter and druid and it would be annoying to not be able to control them.

I do feels that it is a bit crude to squeeze it all together so much. The inconvenience of having to enter the spell book is there but personally, I like to have them separate.

Well, I ran some tests with unit orders. It seems that combined Attack order will be very buggy (attack order doesn't issued if you use it on your current target) and uncomfortable ('Attack' order overrides 'Stop' from trigger and you start attacking target, possible solution with timers may be too clumsy with high ping).

Therefore variant "Attack | Pet Attack | Rest/Retreat" looks best. I will update first post with this.

2-I use druid and still don't know why I want to have my pets in agressive (they are all time in defensive)

more quotes

there's no need for pet behaviour toggle here

Good, it can be moved to backpack.
But it can be useful anyway in some situations, so I think better place it right in backpack, not into 'Options'.

4-Basically, I can live with the issue described in 3#, but to send my pets to attack an aggro'ed mob using 'X' while leaving my character to do whatever he was doing (by exaple: casting) is a thing I do A LOT.

I think it is technically impossible, sad. There are only no-target abilities in Warcraft III that doesn't cancel current order.

Wheres patrol, wheres hold positions (actually we dont have those currently and its kinda pissing me off) I hate this because theres a lot of basic commands that are useful albeit rarely, but still useful.

Both of this orders cancels when you use any ability. What is the actual use could be for them?
Variant: send hero patrolling and killing low level mobs with white attacks for money grind isn't acceptable. Because it just "in-game bot" for money farm and doesn't mean normal gameplay.
Also, if game is pushing players to grind something in this way - it's game design flaw.

Also I still hate that because what if I need to use retreat outside of combat this wont allow for that.

Your hero automatically enters into fight if your minion aggroed any mob.
Exception - thief classes with active 'Stealth', but I think this button can work as 'Retreat' when hero in stealth mode. It also will remove such advantage as resting in stealth near to mobs, that thief classes have.
In peaceful mode your minions always runs near to hero automatically, so 'Retreat' does nothing in this case.

X to me seems a very inconvenient attack hotkey.

It's currently used for pet attack and it's okay.
With dividing 'Attack/Pet Attack' into 2 buttons, normal 'Attack' will use C button.

Then lastly this is probably my own opinion, I feel like this ruins the feel of gaias, but thats just my opinion

Here's my opinion. Main 2 things in UI, that can be called "feel of gaias" are: limited to 9 abilities hero, indirect controls for minions. Both of them are on the hero command card.

There's one more reason why having abilities in the command card helps. You can have 1 version of each ability per slot, in order to allow basing hotkeys on slots, not abilities. Thus resolving all hotkey conflicts.

more quotes

EDIT: I have to add that I preffer to have Attack in 'A', pet attack in 'X' and rest/retreat in 'c'
This gives us:
QWERT
SDFG
to put 9 skills =P

Another one (i think, more visually consistent) is to put the skills in:
ERT
DFG
CVB

This sounds like a very interesting solution, with this you can go beyond 18 shortcutted abilities.
However, this will require 9 placeholders for each ability with different shortcuts (+abilities with reduced cooldowns). It will be hundreds of abilities.
Also it will require proper coding, that will work fast enough.
And at last - it will require button swapping menu.

It would be awesome to implement this, but it could take too much game and time resources. So maybe suggest it for far future, after releasing all planned content?

 

[Xonok]

This sounds like a very interesting solution, with this you can go beyond 18 shortcutted abilities.
However, this will require 9 placeholders for each ability with different shortcuts (+abilities with reduced cooldowns). It will be hundreds of abilities.
Also it will require proper coding, that will work fast enough.
And at last - it will require button swapping menu.

It would be awesome to implement this, but it could take too much game and time resources. So maybe suggest it for far future, after releasing all planned content?

As you are aware, the hotkeys of hidden abilities do not work. Thus, you can never have more than 12 hotkeys enabled at a time for any unit.
For this reason, each ability that can be put into any slot would have an amount of variants equal to the amount of available slots.
If the abilities are generated with objectmerger(which they are, afaik), then using this method does not take much more effort to implement. However, they will take extra space due to their object data.

 

[ALEXz407]

as you are aware, the hotkeys of hidden abilities do not work. Thus, you can never have more than 12 hotkeys enabled at a time for any unit.
For this reason, each ability that can be put into any slot would have an amount of variants equal to the amount of available slots.
If the abilities are generated with objectmerger(which they are, afaik), then using this method does not take much more effort to implement. However, they will take extra space due to their object data.

It will look something like this?

Each real ability connected to 9 dummy abilities with shortcuts, cooldowns and descriptions. When you use ability from shortcut, real ability activates. Real ability doesn't have cooldown, because player can not use it directly.

Interesting side effect: If you do not limit same abilities for the hero, new burst builds will appear. Well 9 'Revenge'-s sounds bad, but up to 2 each cooldown ability (after learning related talent maybe) will be acceptable I think.

And here is keyboard layout and command card that can be used:

AWERB command card

AWERB layout

In any case, need feedback from Zwiebelchen about this idea.

P.S. I still think that this idea would require much more time to develop than divided interface in suggested view.
Divided interface will require only:
- change button positions (from books to command cards and from hero to backpack).
- create 'Rest / Retreat' button, combining current 'Rest' and 'Retreat' and some status checks.
- create 9 placeholder passives for empty ability slots and code that will add/remove them when hero learn/unlearn ability (and add them to hero after loading).

attachments

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Multiple abilities just to generate alternative hotkeys is no option.

There are 120 abilities in Gaias already. To allow free definition of hotkeys, we need each ability 9 times, which means 1080 abilities. It also breaks compatibility with dozens of systems that check if an ability exists. I'd need to write a seperate registry for that. And replace all instances of GetUnitAbilityLevel. Sure, it's possible, but it will cause a lot of new bugs as the game was never build around the idea that there are multiple abilities of the same type.

 

[kevs926]

hotkey is no problem if u want to use WER layout. no need to implement it in the map to change it. just ask zwieb for the ability IDs for customkeys.txt. Also, a program that autogenerates customkeys "for casual users" would be great.

thats why this must be an option.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

There is no way to achieve a WER SDF XCV layout. Simply because I don't know what spells people will learn. No two abilities can have the same hotkey.

 

[ALEXz407]

We received a feedback from Zwiebelchen about spin-off idea with alternative hotkeys, so we can get back to the main topic.

Multiple abilities just to generate alternative hotkeys is no option.

Current results

Divided interface

8 votes

Pros, according to the respondents:
- Get rid of the spellbook and Q pressing to open it.
- For newcomers, this be more easy to understand at first sight.

Cons, according to the respondents:
- Uncomfortable 'Attack/Pet Attack' button fixed in v2.0.
*- No basic command options: 'Hold Position', 'Patrol', 'Stop', 'Move'.
*- Can't use 'Retreat' in peaceful mode.
**- It doesn't seem intuitive that a bag for storage should be an options menu. (Having so many options on the backpack is very counter-intuitive).
***- Z, X, C buttons uncomfortable for shortcuts.

Current interface

7 votes

Why better, according to the respondents:
- Having to open a spell book to cast spells feels intuitive.
- I like the current UI, and I don't like the one suggested. I see nothing wrong with the current one; I never heard anyone or read anything related to a complaining with the UI. And personally, I'd like gaias to keep the classic UI Warcraft has.
*- Like having the basic command options present when first selecting a character.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________
* - does not affect the gameplay, or affect it very little.
** - can be solved with help messages / tooltips / tutorial quest.
*** - X & C buttons already used in the gameplay and everything is okay. Z even more accessible.

About tutorial quest

This will help beginners to quickly understand main functions used in the game.

It is accepted automatically after 1 second from hero selection.
It has several points:
1. Kill a Wolf.
2. Pick up 'Wolf's Fang' (100% quest drop item) into F2 Backpack (it automatically counted as completed when placed only into backpack).
3. 'Rest' after battle. (compeleted when hero uses 'Rest')
4. Toggle Quickbar Icons in F2 Backpack Options. (completed when hero uses 'Toggle QI')
5. Talk with newbie NPC at the start point. (maybe require new NPC here)
Reward: Experience.

And player now knows:
- How to use a backpack.
- How to rest after battle.
- Where is game options.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

About tutorial quest

This will help beginners to quickly understand main functions used in the game.

It is accepted automatically after 1 second from hero selection.
It has several points:
1. Kill a Wolf.
2. Pick up 'Wolf's Fang' (100% quest drop item) into F2 Backpack (it automatically counted as completed when placed only into backpack).
3. 'Rest' after battle. (compeleted when hero uses 'Rest')
4. Toggle Quickbar Icons in F2 Backpack Options. (completed when hero uses 'Toggle QI')
5. Talk with newbie NPC at the start point. (maybe require new NPC here)
Reward: Experience.

And player now knows:
- How to use a backpack.
- How to rest after battle.
- Where is game options.

This is actually a pretty good idea. For some reason, I haven't thought of that yet. The only problem is that quest items usually aren't actual items, but powerups that don't go into any inventory. But it wouldn't be a problem to change it to "put any item into your backpack".

 

[ALEXz407]

This is actually a pretty good idea. For some reason, I haven't thought of that yet. The only problem is that quest items usually aren't actual items, but powerups that don't go into any inventory. But it wouldn't be a problem to change it to "put any item into your backpack".

Excellent! This will fix the problem when newbies do not even know about Backpack F2.
Thus it will be possible to add different options in a backpack and newbies do not miss them.

---

One more spin-off idea, based on [thread=251339][Suggestion] Give backpack minion commands[/thread].

How newbies will see it

All pet control buttons are duplicated in the backpack. So you can control pets both from the Hero screen and from the Backpack.

/

W Toggle Pet Behaviour Cooldown: 0.5s This button works like toggleable ability. By default it's inactive. Inactive - Shield icon, Defensive pet behaviour. Active - Sword icon, Agressive pet behaviour.

E Pet Attack Standart pet attack button.

R Retreat Standart pet retreat button.

Pros:
- You can command your minions without cancelling hero casting / current order.
- You can use 'Retreat' in peaceful mode.
- More convenient hotkeys.

Cons:
- "It might cause unknown bugs" (c) Zwiebelchen

---

What do you think?

Attachments

 

[oger-lord]

One idea for your original backpack:
What about arranging abilities that have a similar functionality?

 

[ALEXz407]

One idea for your original backpack:
What about arranging abilities that have a similar functionality?

Good point!

I changed position of the buttons from your image a bit to make more consistent layout for newbies. Also added 'Toggle Pet Behaviour' button that disappeared.
Now it looks more like current hero command card.

Backpack layout for newbies

Attachments

 

[Zwiebelchen]

It's still an almost 50:50 divide on this suggestion. And to be perfectly honest: that's not enough for me.

This is a rather radical change of playstyle; and I can't just make this an optional toggle, for technical reasons, so unless I get way more pro votes on this, it's not worth the trouble.

 

[oger-lord]

Another idea:
More consistency with the wc3 interface. I mean people are used to the style, so it is good to make it kind of similar.
Normaly you have attack and hold at the top right and your hero skills at the bottom.
The case with 9 abilities will be in the late game, so most of the time people will have less skills.
(I changed the hold Icon to make it look more similar to the wc3 hold shield.)

 

[ALEXz407]

Another idea:
More consistency with the wc3 interface. I mean people are used to the style, so it is good to make it kind of similar.
Normaly you have attack and hold at the top right and your hero skills at the bottom.
The case with 9 abilities will be in the late game, so most of the time people will have less skills.
(I changed the hold Icon to make it look more similar to the wc3 hold shield.)

Unfortunately it is impossible to do. Standart buttons 'Move', 'Stop', 'Attack', 'Hold Position' and 'Patrol' can be combined only in top-left corner, that's how it undocumented feature works.
About changed icon - this is button for 'Rest / Retreat', in wc3 shield associates with 'Stop' button. I'm afraid what players can miss that important feature in this way.
So first line can look like: [Attack] [Rest / Retreat] [Pet attack] [Ability 9] for similarity with a standard interface.

 

[filaretos]

that can be fixed by not changing the interface to this mess and let be the way it is now

 

[ALEXz407]

That's all

Well, I'm tired of fighting with conservatism. I just put some things for your thoughts:

Reversive example

Just imagine: Divided interface is used in Gaias from very beginning. Everybody knows what F1 is for battle things and F2 for optional things.

Someone suggests to combine all things at the hero F1 card, and hide all your easy accessible abilities and pet commands into a spellbook with Q hotkey. Also he suggests to add 4 buttons: useless 'Move', 'Hold Position' that cancels with ability uses, 'Stop' that can be used only with ESC->S and 'Patrol' that gives gold farming bot advantages to half of the classes. And 'Rest' now can be accesed only with ESC->R.

- Will the community say "No, i don't want this mess"?
- How many people will support to press additional buttons to access battle abilities and pet controls?
- How many people will say "It will be too compicated for newbies"?

Try to look at it from a different angle.

Baby duck syndrome

In human–computer interaction, baby duck syndrome denotes the tendency for computer users to "imprint" on the first system they learn, then judge other systems by their similarity to that first system. The result is that "users generally prefer systems similar to those they learned on and dislike unfamiliar systems." The issue may present itself relatively early in a computer user's experience, and has been observed to impede education of students in new software systems.

Imprinting (psycholosy) - en.wikipedia.org

How many people can say that they support the current interface because it's easy, and not because they see similar interfaces in all other Warcraft III maps?

Read carefully

So many people say "I do not want to combine pet attack and normal attack". You know, in version 2.0 these are two different buttons.

Be innovative

Innovations move our society forward. Even in the 12-years old game there is a place for new solutions. Do not be afraid to try them.

It's still an almost 50:50 divide on this suggestion. And to be perfectly honest: that's not enough for me.

This is a rather radical change of playstyle; and I can't just make this an optional toggle, for technical reasons, so unless I get way more pro votes on this, it's not worth the trouble.

How many positive votes should be to implement it?
Why 50% is not enough to try?
You are afraid that people will stop playing Gaias because they will need to press other buttons?

We adapt to any interface, user-friendly or not. We do not want to learn something new when we know how the current works.
And I think people will not stop play Gaias, even if they think that new interface a bit worse. Because Gaias draws players with beautiful design, atmosphere, interesting quests, learning abilities, hard bosses, good balance, lots of items, cast and threat systems, mercenaries and pets, and other awesome things.

In any case, I will not continue to defend Divided interface, do as you think it is right.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Look, I'm not against this idea or anything. That's why I didn't vote. I'm totally fine with both options.

But I'll trust the community here and I respect them enough to not ascribe them of voting for the old design just because they got used to it (which is what you describe as "baby duck syndrome").

Both ideas have advantages and disadvantages; this has been pointed out numerous times. It's a matter of taste, really. And as I am personally indifferent about either solution, as long as there isn't a clear majority of votes in favor of a redesign (let's say 66%), I rather stick with the status quo, because it works and nobody ever really complained about it before this new solution was found.

In engineering, this would be a classic case of "I have a solution looking for a problem".

Don't get me wrong; I like your discovery (hence why I already removed patrol and hold position, as they are pretty much useless in RPGs and patrol can be abused for farmbotting), but if people can't really decide on this, why change a running system and risk introducing new bugs?

 

[SHBlade]

We have already 12 (will be 13 cuz of itemization) iterations of 1.2A. New interface may create another 12834756342897536 new bugs and problems which Zwieb will need to solve. I suggest to stop with this for now, let Zwieb take some rest and start working on awaited by everyone 1.2B content.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

We have already 12 (will be 13 cuz of itemization) iterations of 1.2A.

The itemization changes won't come in 1.2A. Game works now, as long as no new bugs get reported, there won't be another iteration.

 

[Jumbo]

Alex please don't insult people because they don't agree with you. I think you make many good points, but you don't prove them by acting rude.

 

[Devlain]

In my country, when people wants to reform the constitution, there's a 2/3 legislature treshold to make any change.
And in my state, there's a 3/4 legislature treshold for the same thing.
This is conceived as the status quo is always preffered before innovation by innovation itself.
Still, when I love the idea of the new command card, I think the statement of Zwieb that there's need to be a clear majority to makes this changes happen it's pretty solid.

But, by the other hand, I have to also say that this is not a democratic system, Zwieb is the coder and designer and he can do whatever he thinks is the best for the game.

But, also... there are some concepts that are universally tested about game design and UI strategies and I think we have to always support whatever UI we think is the more user-friendly and drives a greater attention from the newcomers.
It has been proved that it's pretty difficult that consolidated users stops playing a game because of the changes (because the game is part of they comfort zone and they will complain but don't leave 95 out of every 100 times), but also has been proved that simplest looking UI drives the attention of more newcomers.

By example. When I first met Gaias, I didn't ever tested it for more than 2 minutes. Why? Because I hate spellbooks (reallly =P) and I wasn't interested in testing a game with a mechanic I dislike a lot.
Somehow, I played Gaias again a couple of months later and I found that it was a pretty good idea to give the map a second try, but... what could happened if I didn't were interested in trying it again...?

Well, that's my 50 cents to the cause.
And excuse my english, I think is clear that I'm not a native english-speaker

 

[ALEXz407]

In engineering, this would be a classic case of "I have a solution looking for a problem".

“To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.”

Yes, it seems I'm too fanatically was fascinated by this idea.

Both ideas have advantages and disadvantages; this has been pointed out numerous times. It's a matter of taste, really. And as I am personally indifferent about either solution, as long as there isn't a clear majority of votes in favor of a redesign (let's say 66%), I rather stick with the status quo, because it works and nobody ever really complained about it before this new solution was found.

That is wise.

Alex please don't insult people because they don't agree with you. I think you make many good points, but you don't prove them by acting rude.

Yes, it was too childish.

I'm sorry if I was too rude when talking about idea of new UI.

Excuse me BoxOfFaith and Ihazdialup.

Peace

 

[GasQueen]

Oh gez, not again.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

 

[Jumbo]

Lol this guy hates me for some reason. :-D Maybe my name has some offensive meaning where he comes from. No idea :-/

 

[TooMuch]

Lol, and what have we learned here people? I learned that some people can learn over time. But my signature shall remain.

Though really, the UI is what it is. yeah it can be refined here and there through time when the need calls for it, but the spell book is fine with the way it is.

p.s. I commented now b/c I voted to keep the current system, but realized i forgot to add "my reason why"