1.1j: Item Drop Limits/Timers

[LanderZ]

While there has not been any activity on this front in a few weeks, I'm posing the question publically and canvassing results, in the interests of providing a fair, overall perspective from the Gaia's community regarding this issue.

So, the question being:
Should there be more limitations on Item drops or the ability to give items to Alts?

Basically, Zwieb has thrown out the notion of a timer on dropped items, meaning that once it's dropped by an enemy, it will only live so long until saving (this is how I interpretted it). If you finish the run, then try to drop it for an alt, and the timer has passed, the item will vanish.

Alternatively, giving top items to lowbie characters isn't always appreciated, either. It's almost as bad as Power levelling, if you discount the level limits on items.

There is currently a 2-load limit in the game, which provides some degree of protection against item muling, as well as the saved-items-cannot-be-shared bit.

I have my own opinions on this, but I'd rather open this discussion up in a fair and unbiased manner. Once I see some votes or discussion generated, I'll throw my ideas into the mix.

 

[f0rg3]

I disagree that giving drops to alts can be considered as power leveling. If player is already familiar with the game then gearing alts and power leveling them isn't really a very bad thing to do. I mean we live in free world, let people decide themselves how they want to play their games. Though I agree that power leveling and gearing newbies is a very very bad idea - better spend more time and teach him game.

From my experience i can say that I often couldn't do d3 with alt I wanted to play, just because team needed some other class. So this means i need to play classes I don't really want to play, just to make game happen, and only reward I got was possibility to get items for class I wanted to play. I think that is a fair barter and it shouldn't be changed. As for battlenet I am sure many experienced players will stop sacrificing themselves like this for the good of team, that means there will happen less games with d3 and game might not be as interesting as it is now because of lack of action (farming ogres all the time isn't fun).

But in general I just don't like such ideas:
"I want code wipe, because I want to start new character"
"I want item transfer restrictions, because I want to gear my alt while playing with it"

Game allows you do to both things with or without code wipe or transfer restrictions <- realize it already. If player doesn't want to gear his alts while playing other char, but can't resist to possibility to do it, then it is his problem, and it isn't a reason to restrict it to all players. If he is jealous that other people are gearing alts, but he isn't doing, then i don't recognize it as reason too.

System as it is now already proved itself to be good, I don't see necessity to change it.

 

[texugo1337]

I guess zwieb already decided and, we know that its not right to gear up alternatives without doing any d3 runs with it. So i think zwieb will look at your text wall and just think: omg, ppl whining on that again?.

 

[f0rg3]

It's not whine, it's my opinion. If there will be changes or not, my gameplay won't change a lot because of that.

 

[SmileyGhost]

we know that its not right to gear up alternatives without doing any d3 runs with it.

This isn't an objective "right" or "wrong" in this case. I for one never had a problem with the previous system where you could pick up your items with your alt. I had all classes with at least lvl 33 and if no class currently playing ingame needed the dropped item, why would it be so wrong to give that item to my alt?
I wouldn't care if you gave a level restriction to hold certain items in the backpack though. That doesn't really matter to me.

Certainly it does mean that I can get all of the items quicker, but you still need to realise that it takes A LOT of D3 runs in order to get items for all of your alts. That said, I still did D3 with many of my alts and I often had to in order to get a balanced team. I wouldn't have played with my crusader, bishop or any of my other alts nearly as much as I did if I couldn't get any items for the classes that I loved playing with.

Zwieb may not change his stance on the matter, but it's still worth discussing so he can get the community's general opinion and base his decision on the different pros and cons that are brought up.

 

[Kl3sk]

My 2 cents : this thread is silly. I remember Zwiebel mentioning the timers, but that was once only once and lots and lots of weeks ago. If he would really have wanted to implement the system, I'm sure he would already be on it. Still : don't you think more coding is what we don't want to see ? A.k.a. : delay the release date of 1.1j / 1.2 ?

 

[f0rg3]

Anyway, in general i can say that games are made for fun. Gaias is a really wonderful map, because it allows to play it from different sides (by different characters) without any additional farming/grinding. In other words less farming - more fun.

I agree that gearing all alts without even playing them is lame, but its lame people problem. Why you want to force people grind 5x times more, just because they want to get fun by playing different characters or to be more flexible when making group for d3.

 

[Hawajska]

I remember Z, said he is open for pull about it.

and atm I see no problem about opurtunity to pass item to alt, it doesn't interafe with anything and idea to change it is mostly proposed by jealous ppls.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

This was decided weeks ago and is already implemented for the upcoming 1.1j. In the future, drops that are created prior to selecting your hero can not be picked up anymore.

 

[LanderZ]

This was decided weeks ago and is already implemented for the upcoming 1.1j. In the future, drops that are created prior to selecting your hero can not be picked up anymore.

As I stated in the previous thread (likely the 1.2 one), your rationale at the time was because "everyone wanted it". I commented that the 'everyone' but was a matter of 3-4 people whining over and over (one of which is banned from these boards, now).

That is why I made this poll; To give the whole board, not just those who view the one thread regularly, a chance to give their input.

 

[Shanchi]

Hmmm I would agree if this timer on the item..... but... i had another idea... shouldn't there be a fee? like.. costing of gold* after the time is up? As consider beside not letting Alt getting it.. but its also allowed alt getting it.. like.. trading fee :O

*srry bad Grammar lol..*

 

[SAMCRO]

I fully support Zwieb on this. I'd much prefer people playing the class they want to get the gear on in D3 than just hoarding items and transferring them to lvl 1's. I honestly wouldn't even be opposed to another wipe because of everyone, (including myself) who's done it to gear their alts merely because it's possible to do in 1.1i.

 

[texugo1337]

Its funny how some ppl here say they like challenges and want more replayability to the map but they don't want it to be implemented.

 

[LanderZ]

Well, we're up past 10 votes now (12: 3/9), and nearly a page of comments, so I'll throw my considerations into the lot:

PRO #1
-For people who want to be able to run stuff over and over and over with all their chars, this offers a lot of replayability to fully gear up your chars.

Counterargument:
-For those of us who don't have the time (or want to spend the time) running things (assuming you can even find a capable team), 1000x, you won't find the gear you want. And, in some cases, gear you NEED to be worthwhile. Case in point: You want to do Fire Lord? You better farm up Searing Gloves, Harness of Fire Protection, and Fire Helm (and Bulwark for Crusader), or essentially 2 of the 3, if you want to tank it. Or else you cannot fulfill your role in the run. Running around with D2-and-lower gear (for those who cannot run D2 1000x with that char) will probably be a suicidal task in D4.

PRO #2
-Stops the powerlevelling of newbies.

No real counter-argument.... It does stop this. But I haven't really seen any of it, myself. Who gives top gear to lowbies in the game just for laughs? Like, D3-quality gear. I've seen it 1-3x, and never on stuff like Poltrooney or Phoenix.

PRO #3
-People ninja loot for alts, and this stops it...?

Umm... It's a weak PRO. Plus, it's easy enough to get them banned from the bot for ninja'ing loot as is, plus just ninja them back when they go to alt out? I dunno....


CON #1
-Finding a team to run stuff with, with their desired characters. I don't know who has a dedicated team to play with, or who can play at set hours, but some of us cannot get this. Likewise, D3 runs required at least 1 tank, and a healer. D4 will likely be the same. If I want to find gear for my Monk, Bard, Sin... (basically, any non Druid, Crus, Zerker, or Bishop), it means someone else has to fill those roles. And what if no-one else wants to fill it? Then the game falls apart. And as much fun as running ogres for money over and over is, it doesn't actually net you very much, in the long run, gear-wise. So, the alternative is that I bite the bullet, as does someone else, and take the necessary roles, while everyone else gets to [potentially, depending on drops] farm gear they want. And then I hope that they all want to come [and have time to come] to the next game to return the favour.

This works if you have a dedicated group of friends who can set time aside for it. Like in WoW guilds and such. This does not work in a public setting, as some poor Bishops and Zerkers are going to get screwed. Over and over. And before you link me to the 2-man D3, or the 5-Bishop D3, remember that they both had fully, 100% geared characters (or very near to it), at top levels, who had already run the dungeon dozens, if not hundreds of times. A new dungeon (D4) will not allow for this from the getgo. And if it does, it's too easy (or so some will say).

CON #2
-The odd time a specific item you need on an alt drops. No-one else needs it. Congratulations, you've just made 400 or 500 gold. Joy.

Don't laugh; it happens. It happens now, courtesy of the 2-load limit. But it would happen a lot more if you couldn't alt any gear at all.


I truly do not want this to devolve into a flame war (it doesn't look like it has, yet, but I want to warn people in advance). However, my opinion is that this change is good for one group: Those with lots of dedicated time and friends in this game. Everyone else will suffer, and fall horribly behind those who have those requirements met.

I play Gaia's whenever I can, and yet I still have yet to get a single fully-geared D3 char. Part of this comes from me playing a single role (Bishop) a lot, because it's needed. Part comes from me getting unlucky rolls on drops (I have yet to win a Demon Heart.... 0/5). So it's not like I'm griping while fully outfitted; I try very hard to kit my characters, with the current system, and I run it as frequently as I can, but I am still woefully behind. Not to mention, I have so little Sin/Hunter gear it's funny, meaning these 2 very-gear-dependant classes are pretty much useless in team play, as is.

I'm aware that you're in the "it's not up for debate" rationale, Zwieb, but I truly do believe that this implementation will simply divide the Map up so much so that only the dedicated, hardcore fans (a mere fraction of those who can play, now), will continue playing. Because they will have the friends to help them run gear for alts, and who can return the favours of running necessary-classes in the Dungeons. For the rest of us.... well, I wouldn't make a healer or tank again, given the chance, because if I had it I'd be forced to use it. Instead, I'd get to leech off of a few dedicated folks who are forced to either play those roles, or create a new game to find others who can fill these roles.

Once again, this is not a flaming match. This is an exchange of opinions. Please be respectful of others' while you provide your own. You can debate, but trolling and flaming is not appreciated, nor permitted.

 

[f0rg3]

I'm already imagine situations where e.g. crusader does 20x D3 runs for bulwark and it doesn't drop. Then he loads bishop because he is needed in team and it drops. And then Gaia will force innocent gamers to suicide. =D

But i totally agree on those con/pros. Plus my logic is simple = less geared characters -> less D3 runs -> less fun from game. Of course, you can say that it is possible to do D3 with undergeared characters, but do you really believe that newbies will have enough patience for it? They will say that this game is shit (because it will be too hard for them) and quit it.

If I wouldn't find few nice people to start my D3 career when i started to play this game, i am sure I would have quit it too. Also I am sure there is lots of newbies who at the moment are quitting Gaias, just because no one wants to do D3 with them or they can't find proper people, and as I said before farming ogres and D2 forever gets boring pretty fast.

But it is just my thoughts, maybe real situation is completely different. Unfortunately we don't have any statistics to analise regarding this issue. But as LanderZ stated such change won't make game harder for those people who already have 5 fully geared alts like me, but it will make it harder for people who are only starting this game and trying to find their place in our community, or people who can't play often. And if we won't get new people to play this game, then Gaia will be in similar state like Tkok is now - all experienced players play only with themselves, and all newcomers practically can't form a proper team to do some interesting stuff.

P.S. Even if you implement restrictions and make code wipe, most likely I will be able to get several characters with almost full gear in 1-2 weeks, if I work on it. As I can't do it alone, most likely there will be 3-4 more people who will also get geared alts in this period. Considering that there are like 5-10 active players on b-net with so many geared alts, means that situations won't change a lot, it will change only for a short time. =)

P.S.S. I just want to make this clear - I'm not scared to loose so many geared chars and to be forced to farm for them again. I'm worried that only few players will continue to play Gaias and amount of newcomers will decrease or there won't be any new comers at all. I mentioned such situation in Tkok at b-net - it takes ages to get people for game, and usually people have there classes out of which you can not form a group for boss fights.

 

[3kalp]

Landerz and Forge are completely right about the thing they talk. Also there are main people who is helping others currently like me and some of my friends. And if you ever noticed, alt geared people are mostly these guys who helps others. They always need to be geared to complete the team. Newbies just join the community and dont know what to do. They have only 1 hero and if we force to them to level some needed heroes again before doing any d3 runs, they will quit with no argue. Here our alt geared heroes are coming in, we help them with the hero needed for the current team we developed for current run. If we were without alt heroes we wouldnt be able to develope a team to run d3 at any time. And with this way also we never turn our back to newcomers, they are always welcomed with us cuz of no hero choosing force. We play it for fun, there are so many lvl 40 bishops in our group to fill the healer slot and still playing while they can level up their other heroes. And their only reward is to get another item for their other char. So if this is going to be removed then we will have to want a lot things from these guys, first of all waste of time.. They will start to wait for a proper team, and there will be only 1-2 games in 2 days while we do 3 games per day now. I also will wait for proper team. And will need to gather a good team among us and can change the heroes to gear them all, but newbies will be forgotten, anyone new with unneeded hero will be ignored. Result is less gaias players less runs then no more gaias and we will start another game till another new version. This will happen for any other community.

 

[Hawajska]

Accident or retard item pick = item soulbound to person who dont need item?

Honestly it will fix 1 problem just to create bigger one.

I tihnk only increasing item req or addid soulbound timer would fix this.


for example item with higher lvl req will force alt to do this dungeon to lvl up so he can proof if its worth item.

or sb timer, if u some1 pick item he have like 30 sec untill item will bound to hes char so he cant pass item, and if it was accident pick he still have 30 sec to pass it to right person(does not reset cd)

 

[3kalp]

The thing is there is no people who only gears alt heroes and not playing with these heroes.
Even if there is, that kind of people are going for cheats after some time. So no worry about it..

 

[bofu]

Well it doesnt matter I tought that this is a very bad idea in the begining and tryed to argue at that point. For a game with no trade posibility between heroes and with items that can drop just 1% of the time this creates very few perfect chars.

For me the best idea would have been to restrict the new items that will come for the char type so no other char could pick them and problem is solved.

 

[texugo1337]

For a game with no trade posibility between heroes and with items that can drop just 1% of the time this creates very few perfect chars.

Well i guess thats the point.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

First of all: I want to tell you that I understand your reasonings. I went through all of the pros and cons and thought about it carefully. And it wasn't an easy decision for me.

I just want to put some statements to the already listed pros and cons and how they did affect my decision:

The fact that a limitation is bad for people that have to play a "required" class in D3 but still want to gear their real main character:
I simply do not accept an excuse for bad class balancing. I am aware that some classes are less useful than others and 1.1j is hopefully going to fix that.

The fact that some items are 1% drops and would be wasted under bad circumstances: This is intentional - and one of the main reasons why I decided to put in such a protection. Rare items are MEANT to be rare. If I would want every damn player to have a Phoenix; I would have set the droprate to something higher. Really, giving raredrops to alts is a serious issue, if you ask me. It totally undermines the purpose of rare drops.
And if you now want argue that I could put this protection on rare items only: If the item isn't rare, it doesn't take long to grab it, even with your alt.
I'm not a powergamer and will never be. I can't understand why you would always need to be top-geared when you have beaten every challenge there is in the game. But that's just me.

About the comment that an item timer would result in less "helping" of new players: Again, please don't use bad game design as an excuse for something that shouldn't be possible really. And besides: Have you ever considered that helping new players should be an act of altruism? Really, if you "help" other players just to get something for your alt, is it still "helping" then?
I don't want to be a moralizer here, but really, I don't need to have an advantage if I decide to help someone ... but that's just me.
I mean ... why do you think I create this map? Because I got an "advantage" out of it? I do it because it's fun and nothing else. And it should be fun to help others.
That's something that is really disgusting on modern society: Every man for himself ...


2 years ago, I implemented the 2-load-per-game limit to the map. It was to protect the map from doing exactly this - giving items to their alts. However, people still do it ... they just need to remake the game every time they did that or simply accumulate the items and then pass them over. To me, this was never intended from the moment I started to create Gaias - that's why this limit is there. It obviously didn't work, so I have to take other means.
The solution I implemented now is elegant and doesn't affect gameplay at all. There is no item binding to players (except for the item binding that was always there: when you save your char) ... you just simply can not pick up items anymore if your character wasn't "in the game" at the moment it dropped.

 

[water_Knight]

That is good to hear zwiebelchen i am a fan of only 1 char my self and watching people gear up a alt in seconds annoys me.

 

[LanderZ]

First of all: I want to tell you that I understand your reasonings. I went through all of the pros and cons and thought about it carefully. And it wasn't an easy decision for me.

I just want to put some statements to the already listed pros and cons and how they did affect my decision:

The fact that a limitation is bad for people that have to play a "required" class in D3 but still want to gear their real main character:
I simply do not accept an excuse for bad class balancing. I am aware that some classes are less useful than others and 1.1j is hopefully going to fix that.

The fact that some items are 1% drops and would be wasted under bad circumstances: This is intentional - and one of the main reasons why I decided to put in such a protection. Rare items are MEANT to be rare. If I would want every damn player to have a Phoenix; I would have set the droprate to something higher. Really, giving raredrops to alts is a serious issue, if you ask me. It totally undermines the purpose of rare drops.
And if you now want argue that I could put this protection on rare items only: If the item isn't rare, it doesn't take long to grab it, even with your alt.
I'm not a powergamer and will never be. I can't understand why you would always need to be top-geared when you have beaten every challenge there is in the game. But that's just me.

About the comment that an item timer would result in less "helping" of new players: Again, please don't use bad game design as an excuse for something that shouldn't be possible really. And besides: Have you ever considered that helping new players should be an act of altruism? Really, if you "help" other players just to get something for your alt, is it still "helping" then?
I don't want to be a moralizer here, but really, I don't need to have an advantage if I decide to help someone ... but that's just me.
I mean ... why do you think I create this map? Because I got an "advantage" out of it? I do it because it's fun and nothing else. And it should be fun to help others.
That's something that is really disgusting on modern society: Every man for himself ...


2 years ago, I implemented the 2-load-per-game limit to the map. It was to protect the map from doing exactly this - giving items to their alts. However, people still do it ... they just need to remake the game every time they did that or simply accumulate the items and then pass them over. To me, this was never intended from the moment I started to create Gaias - that's why this limit is there. It obviously didn't work, so I have to take other means.
The solution I implemented now is elegant and doesn't affect gameplay at all. There is no item binding to players (except for the item binding that was always there: when you save your char) ... you just simply can not pick up items anymore if your character wasn't "in the game" at the moment it dropped.

I'm glad to see your reasoning, finally.

However.... meh. The big issue still lies in the balancing. If 1.1j will make it so people can run D3 or D4 without a Druid or Bishop, or without a Zerker or Crus (not all at once, of course.... But removing the mandatory healer + tanker), then it will be okay. If these classes remain to be required, as there is no way to save Gaspode or successfully do Lady without at least one of them (usually both), then I disagree with this reasoning.

You make the claim that the item requirement should not be used as a class balancer, then the classes need to be balanced. Personally, I think the game is catered towards the necessary tank/healer roles, as are most RPG's. If this can be rectified, I think the other parts might be a little too easy.

I'm going to disagree with you on this one, Zwieb. And I still think that this implementation will result in bad things, overall, in the upcoming months. Namely a reduced player base and such. Time will tell.

 

[f0rg3]

My conclusions:

1) Changes are implemented in future versions.

2) Poll showed it results.

3) Item transfer at the moment stimulate geared people to do D3 with classes they don't want to play, just so that dungeon run happen. In future there won't be such impulse.

4) Jealous people instead of gearing themselves (while other gear their alts) won't be able to gear themselves that much in future, because less d3 runs will happen and wc3 player amount globally is decreasing atm.

Of course time will show, maybe it will be different.

 

[Nozero]

I followed this post, i've voted No. but its not too much, its just good

The prob is, a lot a players have 4 or 5 char. what's the point ! personnaly, i have 2 char, druid and necro! its enought and already hard to have full d3 gear to both.

I agree, if you wanna 5 char, its not a probleme, but if u do this char without play him, what's the point ? if u just want it, to have it, and gear it with an other char ... feel not useless, but ...u know (but its a choose, u can have all char, u do what u want..., but enjoy to have it and to gear it itself ^^)

you just simply can not pick up items anymore if your character wasn't "in the game" at the moment it dropped.

with that, u cant gear up, at all, any alts char ! It's a good things, but mayby just do this rules, to dongeon runs ? (lets debate ^^)

3) Item transfer at the moment stimulate geared people to do D3 with classes they don't want to play, just so that dungeon run happen. In future there won't be such impulse.

i'm ok with that too, with the actually protection, u can gear one alts ! One alts its cool.
the fact is, if Z do the quote above, everyone will load her char who need to be gear, and often we will cant do the d3, because no healer or tank.



After, with actually protection, if u are 5 friends in local network (or on bnet), u can runs and runs D3 and gear up all ur alts, so mayby protection need to be little higther.
just by example, this game its like a mini-wow, in wow, u can gear ur alts.

mayby, if its possible, do this : (idea)
put some counter dongeon for ur char ! if u had never do at least 1 run D3 with ur char, u cant take, even in bagpack, items droped in dongeon3.
With some other protection ofc, if a lvl10 do the d2 with 2 other mates lvl30, he will able to take gear ...

something like that, idk

 

[Malygos10]

I think gearing up alts is not a bad idea since sometimes you need a certain character with good equip to do D3. And personally I think not helping lowbies is what jealous people do since they think "Hey! Why should I help this lowbie get gear and lvl him up ( easy for him), when I spent a lot of time lvling and gearing up my own character".
Guys, people who are new to this map that want to try it get bored easily since they don't know how fun this map is. And sometimes, I think it's a good idea to start a new character when you play with newbies to make it more challenging so they like it more. (nobody likes it when things are too easy. Not fun*) We do this in order to get more people to get interested in the map. I spend a lot of time helping newbies and let me say this: it's a lot of fun making new characters and going through all the challenged over. Besides, you don't need to save the new character you make.
And not helping lowbies who know a few things about the map is just pure jealousy. (How do you people live with yourselves?) xD

P.S. I think there's already enough limitations to this map.

 

[3kalp]

Rare items are MEANT to be rare. If I would want every damn player to have a Phoenix; I would have set the droprate to something higher. Really, giving raredrops to alts is a serious issue, if you ask me. It totally undermines the purpose of rare drops.

At that point, i should respect that, and stop arguing. Whenever i see a thief with yarr or squire with phoenix it takes me to the vomiting point. I ve never seen actually but still a low level guy with that kind of items makes me sick, noone need to be full-geared. If you will feel better then let me tell this little story. When i was playing twilight's eve, there were many grand templars with full gears and fates. I had only some idiot sun orbs mana orbs etc and a book, but everyone prefered me instead of 3-4 templars with 'Fate's. Guess why..

 

[SAMCRO]

What's wrong with a crusader having a phoenix?

If anything a thief equipped with a phoenix is ridiculous since once you cast sweeping blades you see about 30-50 meteors falling during one of the D3 waves...I don't know if this was an intention by Zwieb, or simply a bug that needs to get fixed because that's clearly not a 4% chance.

 

[fifek556]

sorry but phoenix is the weapon for good tank crusader. ure so low 3kalp

 

[texugo1337]

or squire with phoenix

what u guys talking about?

 

[Vestra]

What's wrong with a crusader having a phoenix?

If anything a thief equipped with a phoenix is ridiculous since once you cast sweeping blades you see about 30-50 meteors falling during one of the D3 waves...I don't know if this was an intention by Zwieb, or simply a bug that needs to get fixed because that's clearly not a 4% chance.

I just don't understand why it procs off cleave. Should be single target.
The whole 100% searing thing should be addressed too, its not op but its a clear orb stacking bug.

 

[3kalp]

sorry but phoenix is the weapon for good tank crusader.

Squire cant carry it? Never played a crusader nor tried to take phoenix with a squire but as i know he can carry it. And again i see people doesn't read anything in this forum.. Just trying to see what they want to, to insult others or underastimate them or humiliate them... What do u wanna mean fifek? I really didnt understand it..
And thanks everyone for not checking the right point of my text, i really feel sorry for this... Am i that low at speaking english or people is? Or is it all about motives of men? Doesnt matter if u ask me.. please everyone read the text clearly if u wanna comment on it, so u wont be humiliated while u re trying to do it..

 

[krustnik]

well if you ask me ... gearing low alts (basic class) is equal to bug abusing like spamming wolfs and etc.



PS ive seen lvl 40 Squire full geared :O 3kalp as well saw it


BR.

 

[3kalp]

ah yes. Sorry for that i told i ve never seen a squire with phoenix, i remember him now as u said. He is not able to play with us anymore anyway

 

[TinyTeaser]

yh i was reading this and i think that you should be able to give items to alts, i think the biggest argument here is that you dont want people to skip dungeon, well why dont you add alot or important quest for that dungeon?

 

[Kl3sk]

yh i was reading this and i think that you should be able to give items to alts, i think the biggest argument here is that you dont want people to skip dungeon, well why dont you add alot or important quest for that dungeon?

Entering the dungeon itself is a quest. Argument invalid.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

What's wrong with a crusader having a phoenix?

If anything a thief equipped with a phoenix is ridiculous since once you cast sweeping blades you see about 30-50 meteors falling during one of the D3 waves...I don't know if this was an intention by Zwieb, or simply a bug that needs to get fixed because that's clearly not a 4% chance.

Thanks for reporting that. It's not really a bug, though, just something I didn't thought of. Every "white" damage triggers proccs. This has to be the case with all procs and I am going to fix that.

@Thread: I will reconsider this change ... I agree that it's hard enough to find 5 people for going dungeons already. Really, it shouldn't be harder just because a healer and a tank are required.

 

[texugo1337]

u shouldn't, i'm sure it won't be hard to find ppl to play on 1.1j. right now its hard to find ppl to play because they are bored with this version cuz they got all their chars geared cuz they did d3 and passed the equips to their alts.

 

[LanderZ]

u shouldn't, i'm sure it won't be hard to find ppl to play on 1.1j. right now its hard to find ppl to play because they are bored with this version cuz they got all their chars geared cuz they did d3 and passed the equips to their alts.

Lots of players don't have fully geared alts.

And even 2-3 weeks ago, I had troubles finding groups at times. If you're around at the prime times of day, with 1-3 friends, sure, it's easy to find a group. Not so easy when you have shiftwork and/or no consistant friends to play with.

Thank you for possibly reconsidering, Zwieb.

 

[Hawajska]

u shouldn't, i'm sure it won't be hard to find ppl to play on 1.1j. right now its hard to find ppl to play because they are bored with this version cuz they got all their chars geared cuz they did d3 and passed the equips to their alts.

Such a foolish arguing.... getting full d3 gear is a matter of 2-3 hrs farming(avarage)
and reither some1 prefer to come as alt than again as same hero and pass cos its damn mess with codes ect.

Best grp simply gear up and than come on alt without passed items, its damn easy if u know how to play and d3 gear is not such a big improvement except for tank.

If some1 pass 1 item from time to time cos no1 wanted it nothing wrong, and its silly cos some jaelous pussy's whine about it cos they sux.

 

[Pohx]

"Getting Full D3 gear is a matter of 2-3 Hrs farming (Average)"

I've never seen anyone get full D3 Geared in a matter of 2-3 Hours, i myself had to run it around 30 Times to get my Lunar.
Also, You stated that only tanks get a big improvement, Every class Gets a HUGE improvement. Compare the DPS of a D2 Char to a D3 Char, Along with the Heals from a D2 Healer to a D3 Healer

 

[Vestra]

Yeah it's been like 50 runs for my crusader and he still has no pheonix. It's all a matter of luck.

I agree that, in a warcraft rpg at least, you should work for the drops you are obtaining, with the class that uses them. I'm happy with the drop timer change.

 

[f0rg3]

Well if you find 5 people who could make a nice d3 party, but they all want to gear e.g. their bard, then you pretty much get problem with tank/healer thing. And how would you solve such problem? I think it's better to be jealous and do D3 rather than be happy and rarely do D3 or spend 2h sitting and waiting for people (also called waste of time).

As for droprates, i think most items are rare enough. It wasn't 10 runs in which i geared my characters, i did about 150-200 D3 runs. If I wouldn't be able to transfer them, it would still took me 150-200 only I would spend 2x or 3x more time finding people with proper classes to make a normal group.

Also i want to mention that texugo1337 arguing isn't foolish. If his real life obstacles allow him to play only at specific time, then by ignoring his necessity you will just loose one member of gaias community. And it's just 1 example, take in consideration that we aren't many already.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Mh ... first people wanted me to put in a protection against gearing alts, now they want the opposite. :/
Seriously, I shouldn't listen to the community and code the game after my personal imaginations.

But I'm convinced. I will remove the new approach and keep the status quo in this regard.

 

[Gotenks]

you are the maker just do what u think is best for map ^^

 

[Pohx]

As Gotenks said, You should honestly just go with what you think is right, No matter what decision you make not everyone will be in agreement for it. You just need to focus on what you do best