Nerubian Race - Feedback

[Kam]

Awhile ago I decided that I'd like a third race in my map, something that would be very unconventional. This is what I got.

I am aware that my triggers are very basic and produce leaks, any help with this would be appreciated.

I am looking for general feedback, ability suggestions, etc.

Keep in mind that this is not complete and is balanced to be fighting my orcs and humans, not the vanilla humans that are in this demo map.

The general concept is numbers. You have no resources to gather, and there is no food cap on you. In a normal game you will start with the Queen and 4 harvesters, how you gain more mana is up to you.

At this time I am thinking about adding an explode ability to the Harvesters similar to Detonate.

 

[Avex]

I think it should stay orcs vs humans untill the project is HUGE. But make your choices carefully, it could be your maps doom, or its savior.

 

[Kam]

I realize this, which is why I need community feedback. The next version will not have this race in it, perhaps the one after that.

Really I need help on the triggers the most, the leaking is a problem in the long run.

 

[Delterius]

I always support new content being added but I think you should make new maps for the current one first.
Also when you release the next version you could make a map with and another without the new race for and feedback.

 

[Kam]

I was planning too, and it will include a poll.

As of now I am waiting for finals to be over for someone to complete some spells for me, and of course for Blizzard to get off their ass and fix Warcraft.

 

[Dark Master]

Here are some spells for Nerubian Mage
Life steal-steals life from enemy unit (just edit hero spell)
(Adept)Doom lighting-just like chain lighting, just edit it and make another effect

 

[infrenus]

The havesters will upgrade to other units like then are evolving?

 

[Kam]

No, they generate mana only. The queen uses this mana to lay eggs.

 

[infrenus]

Uh, the race will have a good chance of make giant armies, but if you kill the queen the race will die easily =p

 

[Subject-154]

I'm pretty sure that's the point. That's basically how ants, bees, and a lot of other insects do it. Why not make it like that for Nerubians?

 

[Jokunen]

Well, I support adding the race, although the adding of extra maps should be done first to add replayability value.

 

[Kam]

I need some help guys. I like this idea a lot but I'm not sure where to take it. I don't really like the resource being mana, I'd rather it be lumber - but how?

Please feel free to edit and screw around with it.

 

[baassee]

Callahan made this race or part of it on WC3C but cant find it :S

Good luck btw if you need help with triggering, feel free to ask and I will see what I can help with.

 

[Kam]

4 downloads, any feedback?

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Looking for a Nerubian Race ? How nice I am also thinking about one ...
You may want to check this, Kyrbi is one of the best guy with ideas I know of:
http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=100616

I wonder if you added my bomber spell in your project after all this time xD
I will see what this map holds.

EDIT EDIT EDIT

Ok .. this looks more a StarCtaft race then a Nerubian race. The gameplay is just too different there are no upgrades, no structures, no towers .. nothing.
If your queen dies -> you die.
If your workers die and you don't have mana -> you die
Also the extractor auto mana thing doesn't work.
This race is weak, and it's air unit are over powered.

I can also say, this is one of those cases with decent artwork, but no decent code at all.

here is my review =P

 

[Kam]

Thanks for the post.

The extractor auto cast doesn't work because it is invisible and I guess it's hard-coded for invisible units not to cast. I'm working on a trigger.

The race is meant to be weak in small numbers. You probably noticed there is no food cap or unit restriction, so you can potentially have hundreds of units. The idea is to overwhelm your enemy. In addition you have a major advantage in tech one because there is no way for orcs or humans to reveal until tech 2, so early game you don't have much to worry about.

What would you expect to see in terms of code?

 

[Blaxor]

I've got some feedback on the nerubian race, it's too strong i could harass most enemy bases while i made a huge army of dragoons before i whiped everything out.. i had so many dragoons that the tier 3 orc townhall died in less than 1 sec. You should either make the nerubians with invisibility weaker or remove invisibility from some more of them.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

so early game you don't have much to worry about.

Unless your enemy makes a quick rush and kills your queen, which is visible.... Then you will have a fast and quick death ...
Also, what is the building "Hive" for ?

What would you expect to see in terms of code?

I would expect to see Nerubian heroes at least. Also, most of the abilities are simple minor changes to abilities that already exist. I expect to see some complex spells in vJass or some surprises, like you have in Tides of Darknes.

 

[Blaxor]

Oh forgot to say that the only thing I needed to harass all enemies was a couple of seekers..

 

[Kam]

I see.

The queen is invisible (or should be), and I had someone working on some spells but that fell through. I'm not sure what to do with this race.

 

[infrenus]

The queen is not invisible .-.
And see something, when I built one of these bug worker-like another die, its like you only can have 25 workers

 

[Kam]

Not that this is related to the Seed race, but I've begun on the other race as well. This is the start of the Lost.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

If you intend to build wc3 races you must follow a basic scheme or line, else people will simple get frustrated and bored because the race has nothing in common with others...
See here:
http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=93188

I think you give too much attention to models and icons, and not the real strategy/design line the race should have.

 

[Kam]

That is very detailed, the lost will adhere to the traditional race structure. The Seed on the other hand are supposed to be unconventional.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

The Seed on the other hand are supposed to be unconventional.

Yet, they should have some structures and upgrades ... Besides You can kill "The seed" on tier one, just go to a near goblin shop, buy some wards .. and BANG ... you're dead.

 

[Kam]

I see, I'm not sure either of these races will pan out - I'm a one man show on my project and it gets overwhelming at times even with two re-done races. By the way, I should note that Seed and Lost are both balanced for my orcs and humans, not the vanilla races. See pics.

 

[infrenus]

Damm, you are good for making buildings, Im jealous now =3

 

[Kam]

I should point out that none of those are mine, they are from a project called The Tales of Raviganion. It was released years ago and has been dead ever since; I have tons of old models no one knows about anymore. =)

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

I have tons of old models no one knows about anymore. =)

I also know old models, but for tauren race and Troll race. Maybe we should change links some day?

 

[infrenus]

Uh, from tales of ravignation I have the robot like plague and some well know sea themed structures

Now only to Know, what will be the lost in the map? I dont think theyre fit...

 

[Kam]

The lore I came up with was this.

After Archimonde was destroyed the demon population left had a choice. They could retreat to the depths to never be heard from again, or they could pull together into some sort of coherent race. Being the apex of evil, they would be much more wicked than the undead ever were and rely solely on the darkest magic.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Nice story, it kinda makes sense.

 

[Hijax]

my feedback on the Seed:
i like them. however, i agree with phoenix on that they are maybe a bit too alien, and they need a shinier code. i suggest you make some sorts of buildings, like hatcheries. maybe let the harvesters morph into the buildings, like they currently morph into the extractor. the hatchery could be something that produced eggs when fed with mana(same metod as the queen), and then it needed less mana.
you could also make the queen capable of feeding mana to the harvesters, then when they have a certain amount of mana they turn into a cocoon, which can morph into different heroes.

suggestions for heroes:
Broodlord:(remove the broodlord unit) a leader hero, becoming stronger when followed by lots of units. would have abilities that increase his power the more friendly units whithin range, maybe something that damages all friendly units within range by X, then heals him for X*amount of damaged units². maybe something that kills a friendly unit and morph himself into a supe form.

Eggtender: supports the quuen in making armies. whenever the quuen gains mana, the eggtender's mana is increased by 50% of the mana the queen gained(eggtender has no other mana generation). she can lay fiend eggs(but nothing else). also have some support abilities that doesnt use mana, like making eggs hatch instantly, or 'twinning' eggs.

 

[baassee]

those ideas are either to overpowered or to skinny like broodlord with a race that got a food cap beyond normal or the eggtender have unlimited mana if you buggs the queen out with mana restoring items still te eggtender suuucks but I like the ideas thought ...

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Broodlordremove the broodlord unit) a leader hero, becoming stronger when followed by lots of units. would have abilities that increase his power the more friendly units whithin range, maybe something that damages all friendly units within range by X, then heals him for X*amount of damaged units2. maybe something that kills a friendly unit and morph himself into a supe form.

My project has a hero dwarf, the "Axe Dwarf". Mastering the offensive skills this hero has an ability called BloodBound. BloodBound increases the hero's attack by X per every dwarf unit nearby him in a range of Y. So, if there are 3 rifleman with the hero, the hero will have 3 * X bonus attack.
I remind you my project is open source, if you are interested in this ability, I can give it to you as long as you *cough*give credits*cough*.

 

[Kam]

Thanks for the reviews.

This is the new techtree, as you can see it's quite complete. The Building on the end with no counter is not decided yet.

I will most likely make the race use lumber, and the pool model makes sense as the depository for that lumber so that it can be turned into the goo. Still no food cap though. The queen will be the only unit capable of building structures, the Harvesters will only get the lumber and create more harvesters.

Also, I need some model editing done to those models, if anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

If you use lumber, why not use gold too ?
And as far as I can see, you have no defensive building (no tower) which I still think you should have.

Finally if your units don't use food, why do you have a house ?

And all those buildings are from starcraft project ... where did you get them ? xD

 

[Kam]

They won't use gold because it makes no sense for them to. They don't have an economy, they have a queen that gives orders. I decided to use lumber because it makes everything miles easier and it makes sense that a race originating from nature would convert existing resources rather than refine them as conventional races do.

The farm is there just to show there is no food requirement for the race.
That last building that has no counter yet has a attack animation, so it will most likely end up being a tower.

http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/warcraftiiithefrozenthrone/mod/17927.html

 

[Mechanical Man]

Meh, I don't think that using zerg building models is a good idea for nerubian race.

 

[Kam]

Well, they aren't a conventional race. IE: they don't have tools, or make buildings, or have an economy, or even a language beyond their various hisses.

If you know of some other building models that fit this profile please link me, but I think the zerg models fit perfectly.

 

[Campir]

so the seed are based off nerubians but no nerubians?

because the way i invisioned the nerubian race would bw the opposite of this. The seed seem like a zerg ripoff, mainly because there strategy over overwhelming mimics the zerg strategy (one that has been used in various rts yet remains to be cliche), as well as the fact you used zerg models.

Nerubian (or the seed) as I pictured them would be a race of upgrades and special tactics. You build a spider and at first its terrible, but then you upgrade a tougher shell, some spikes, stronger jaws, and there you have a fully armed 8 legged juggernaut. I think the idea of 12 massive spiders customizably upgraded walking towards an unsuspecting orc base, ready to unleash all sorts of evolutionary evil, is much cooler then "lol i set my rally point to there base, unit spam!".

 

[Kam]

Interesting.

I like the idea, but I still don't know what else I would use for building models. Perhaps I will use that upgrade structure.

 

[Hijax]

I think the idea of 12 massive spiders customizably upgraded walking towards an unsuspecting orc base, ready to unleash all sorts of evolutionary evil, is much cooler then "lol i set my rally point to there base, unit spam!".

Well i think a helpless orc base surrounded on all sides by a neverending horde of giant insects sounds more cool than "lol, full upgrade, attack, rinse, repeat"

you see? its very easy to make somebody else's idea sound stupid if you put it in the right words. those two ideas i put are the exact same you posted.

 

[Campir]

Well i think a helpless orc base surrounded on all sides by a neverending horde of giant insects sounds more cool than "lol, full upgrade, attack, rinse, repeat"

you see? its very easy to make somebody else's idea sound stupid if you put it in the right words. those two ideas i put are the exact same you posted.

I was making a cliche brain dead rts strategy that I find to take the point of microing your army out of the game seem stupid. I suggested an original alternative that also makes sense with the whole "spider evolutionary" theme.

 

[Kam]

I like the ideas, and I can involve an upgrade structure that is universal instead of melee/ranged/magic based like the normal races.

I do think the zerg buildings are the best though, and I have seen nothing else that would make sense for them to use. That is if anyone ever does these model edits I need.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

I also have in mind a Nerubian race, but if I make one it will be a lot closer to the other races xD

I just think this is too much "StarCraftneese" if you know what I mean.

 

[infrenus]

Hey, why dont make the nerubians have buildings like their hitory? In history the nerubians have undead like buildings

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

In history the nerubians have undead like buildings

In campaign Nerubians are a spider-like race which master the crypt and undergorund buildings. This is how I intend to make a Nerubian race.

I don't think this can be called a Nerubian race... Seed Race seems good though =P

 

[Kam]

I plan to make them revolve around numbers, replication, and overpowering your enemy. They will have a progressive upgrade tree, meaning every upgrade will affect every unit.

Example: Research of pincer morphing.

Increases attack damage of all units, also allows X unit to use X ability, etc

 

[Dark Master]

Or some upgrades dive dmg to some units, but decreases armor of some other units.