The Invasion 0.63

[Moderator]

12:44, 10th Jun 2011
-Kobas-:
Status: Rejected

 

[Vehster]

It might look like a WiP but it truly isn't and somehow still is since I continue to work on it, Hero's can level up and now have a ability.

Main things I need discussion on is -
Suggestion of abilities for hero's
New units?
Should I add more zombie units and bosses?
Does it need a tutorial for new people or is it understandable?
Is it re playable and fun?
Does it lag?
Should I make a mini-dungeon to become a plumber like

Spoiler

mario

and go into the sewers?

 

[Vehster]

A map description can be made any way the person who submitted their work wants it to be for it is their work and they should be able to present it any way possible...

As I said earlier, the description shouldn't be what makes you want to play but the map itself once you test it.... You should have eight minutes to spare to test one single map and not care for everyone's description.

Apparently though you guys have chosen the path of not testing maps but doing everything you see like judging a book without reading it.

Instead of further criticizing me on stupid stuff how about you download the map because it is virus free and try the map out yourself then come back and read this before you say anything more.

Thank you for your comments Slayer14, Orcnet, DeathChef and Warlord Ajer'laroir even if they were not helpful at all.

As well I apologize for any incorrect action I may have done for I have not the best of social skill....

 

[ap0calypse]

Thread cleaned.

His description is good, so now start saying things about the game and quit this useless conversation.
If you really want to take it further, I suggest you use PM's.

 

[Jazztastic]

Review for The Invasion

I'm just going to start by saying this was a good effort. With that little raincloud already hanging overhead of this review, lets get on with it.

Review

The map "The Invasion" by Vehster starts you in the middle of a full-scale conflict between an undead force and a human force. With the two automated armies fighting, you must assist the human side with your (poorly) customized hero and units.

Upon an attempt to open in the world editor, I found out it was protected. So I was forced to use the actual version of warcraft to test. With the blank description box and the suggested players of 0.42, I knew this was going to be a doozy.

Game starts, I have no idea what the hell I'm doing. I tried pausing it and opening quest log for how to play/info on how the game works. I found nothing useful, and thus resorted to the standard "Beat up nearby enemy shit" method used by the melee maps.

I investigated my buildings and found that I could train 4 or 5 custom units. With no descriptions . . . a lack of descriptions seems to plague this game. Tooltips are startlingly empty and non-informative and draw on what little fun value exists here.

Well I can't even say shit about the triggers. PROTECTED BITCHES!

There was an extreme lack of features. No multiboard, or even a regular scoreboard. There are apparently three different difficulty settings but I didn't even investigate these, seeing as I only played 5 minutes of the default before quitting.

Two spells on the only hero present. One a default, which throws a holy magic-ish spell in a boomerang, which I'm pretty sure had absolutely no effect at all. The other was an AOE that dealt damage, not creative, and no other effects (to my knowledge).

There exists a spam of imported units in this game, as if quantity makes up for quality. Changing all the default buttons on units (Move, Stop, etc) was pointless. Imports and extras like that should be focused on after the game is working and fun.

I'm sorry to say my friend, but overall this map is easily 1/5, and I don't think it should be approved because it is very broken. See my improvements tab for suggestions on how to fix.

(Reviewing experience comes from The Nozzle, a developing website of which I write game reviews for. This one was rushed, so expect it to be incomplete)

Improvements

-Make the gameplay solid, know what you're doing with the game, don't make a defense map then put in tunnels related to mario (serious WTF there)
-FIX THE TOOLTIPS
-Make more abilities, ask for help with this if can't do it alone.
-Edit this page and in game info, tell us how to play this map, give a full and proper description of gameplay, CITE SOURCES, and don't give us a spew of "bad", "ok", and "good" comments. Assume we know how to review or else we wouldn't do it.
-My advice would be to start a thread in the map development section of the forums. This can help you understand if your map is working and fun before you post it here.

Don't give up Vehster! Your map needs a lot of work, but it has hope. I think you should start up a map dev thread and ask people for help, I cannot stress how effective that is. Also, it seems like English is a second language (maybe). If that's the case, you should especially ask for help with tooltips and game info.

1/5

EDIT: He actually did include a small description (which i had to wheel over to read, thats a no-no) and a list of credits.

 

[Arisato]

you can get minus reps for saying "because people are blind"
please watch your language

about the map it is not bad, not good, not great, not unplayable, good, not very good, but playable, has something that makes it much more fun

please make it better 3/5

 

[Jazztastic]

Well I can see you are trying to give me idea's and be helpful in a non-helpful way.
Are you new to warcraft?
What feature's should I add?
Why does nobody notice the 375 line damage on the boomerang....
the other ability doesn't just dmg, It heals as well, should read the description.
The game is working and fun for me at least, I am sorry you hate my idea and game.
Why a serious wtf? it was a mario joke, nobody has a sense of humor do they? I was also thinking of adding in a sidequest like clear the pipes but as I can see something as fun as that would decrease the fun for people like you.
Thanks.

Boomerang has been changed because people take too long to notice something.

Btw bad review commenter, why do I get them?
I feel like a magnet..

There is a reason why I put up those examples of bad comments.... but as I saw nobody reads them, example above.

1. How was what I did being non-helpful? I gave you a list of things to improve upon, more so than ANYONE else has has done for this map.

2. I've been playing warcraft since it started. I've beaten campaign three times and have over 20 gigs combined custom maps over three different computers.

3. Nice features to add would include (but not be limited to): A multiboard, more heroes, more abilities, purchasable items, etc. It's not hard to make a map have items dude.

4. Bad tooltip on boomerang. Also, it doens't go where I click it just goes in a predetermined flight path whatever direction the spell is cast. And no I can't notie the 375 damage because there are so many creeps with so much regeneration it's impossible to notice something so small. You're right about the other one.

5. Right now it isn't quite as much fun as it COULD be. That's why we give reviews and a little improvements tab. So you can make as fun of a map as possible and we can play as fun of a map as possible. No I don't "hate" your map, but it still needs a lot of work to meet standards.

6. A mario "joke" in this game would be like putting a portal reference in DotA.

7. "bad review commenter, why do I get them" I couldn't tell whether you were complaining about bad reviews or bad reviewers. If you're saying bad reviews, it means you got multiple, and that means people agree with me. If you mean bad reviewer, Orcnet is a highly respected member of THW and you shouldn't slander him, and how much he likes the game is his own opinion. And hell no I didn't read that long line of garbage you call "bad comments", it was just a bunch of disconntected sentences with no real meaning.

8. Grow up and stop bitching about bad reviews. If you submitted this project in a work enviroment you would be fired. I'm no professional mapmaker, but as a highly experience custom games player I can immediately find things that need improvement. Listen to what I have to say and FIX THE ERRORS IN THIS MAP or take the 1/5 vote for rejection. Your choice.

As an endnote, do not simply post on my account telling me "If you're going to review a 1/5 just don't review". That is the biggest flag for someone who wants to download this map. And as a reviewer it is my job to give people and bad and the good. Now please don't just bitch out and yell "But this map is so good" or "You're a bad reviewer" because I'm trying to HELP YOU! Please just take some advice, maybe look up tutorials if you don't know how to do something or ask a member of THW who has experience.

Resubmit the map and I'll make a new review. And no you cannot possibly fix all the problems in a single day, so don't even bother spamming pm's about how you fixed it all

EDIT: If you really disagree with me, ask a mod to review map. And don't be such a dick to people "as I can see something as fun as that would decrease the fun for people like you". Completely unneeded. Lol I even repped you for trying

 

[ap0calypse]

EDIT: If you really disagree with me, ask a mod to review map. And don't be such a dick to people "as I can see something as fun as that would decrease the fun for people like you". Completely unneeded. Lol I even repped you for trying

He already did, and so far I agree with you and Orcnet.
The only problem is that I only really review maps if I have the unprotected version. If I do not, I just quickly open the game, check the most basic things and quit.

 

[Jazztastic]

i'm not going to participate in a flame war so here is my closing comment.

If you're just going to throw a fit whenever someone tells you your map needs work you will never get an approved resource on here. Even if you do just resubmit resources, one you'll get posting rights rebuked for resubmitting, two you'll get the exact same comments I made from dozens of people, and three you'll just look like a prick.

Yes there are standards for THW. Not everyones shitty 1 hour map can be approved. That's why these moderators exist, to filter out the spam and garbage maps so real gems (restricted complex comes to mind) can be given the credit they deserve. You definitely don't care about getting better at mapping or contributing at all to the hive, or else you would lsiten to advice on how to fix your map. Instead of listening you just keep making personal attacks on people because you cannot deal with a little criticism. There's a reason I typed "grow up and stop bitching", because you would rather dick around with shitty imported models and mario jokes than making a quality peice of work, and you act like a fucking child. Now fix your map, ask for help, or look for a tutorial. But please whatever you do STOP BITCHING, STOP THE POSTING OF COMMENTS THAT ARE ABSOLUTELY GOD DAMN STUPID.

In specific response to you:


My list of things to fix was the largest you've received.

I know very few games that wouldn't benefit from items.

There is hardly any regeneration, bad reviewer? That makes absolutely no sense.

If you don't understand a tutorial pm the poster or leave comment in thread

How about include something UNIQUE to your map, not just heroes

Just drop the mario joke. It's a bunch of pipes put hastily into your map

Quick edits and errors are the exact same thing in your map

We are way past the point of uncalled for comments

There is tons of help on the hive, post in map development

Disregarding a moderator is a bad idea . . .

You constantly update your map i.e. fill it with more stupid shit

More heroes are definitely needed in your map

No one said it was dota, just saying your mario idea is retarded as hell

1/5 isn't meant to be helpful dumbass, its meant to make you realize how fucking awful your map is, it's like a "WAKE UP" call, and the box that said IMPROVEMENTS was for help. No score submitted can "help" someone.

Cool, the boomerang was changed. Probably means leaks like a bitch and is still broken as hell.

What do I have to listen to, your cries protesting your score or your desperate desire to have me re-rate within 24 hours?

I think you're not on wc3camp because they kicked you out.

Apocalypse is fully justified doing that to a protected map. Why bother with an optimizer in a beta?

I pretty much just responded to your thing. +1 please.

ENDNOTE

Your map is trash. You aren't willing to improve your map or work with people. Now please don't spend three pages writing a response to this because you're going to look like more of a jackass in front of everyone. Good day sir! (And yes my extreme language was both justified and required to make the point)

 

[ap0calypse]

Terrain:
The terrain was very poorly done.
On the bottom of the map, there are quite a lot of cinematic doodads. These should always be avoided (only the orange fire might be used in some cases, yet still not adviced).
The tileset needs a lot of improvement. The transition between different tiles, for example. Small 'spots' of a different tile don't make the terrain look good, instead it makes it look a lot worse.

When placing doodads, keep in mind that they should actually fit the map - placing random doodads all over the place is something you do not want.
Those pipes are way too random, I don't see how they could possibly fit there.
The barricades have been spammed, something else you should never do: spam doodads.



Objects:
The tooltips and names of all objects really are horrible.
Do you know why people use tooltips? They're there so the player can see what the hell he is doing.
If your tooltip is just "you summon and throw the holy boomerang...", then you can expect a shitstorm about messy tooltips.
Even worse: the units didn't even have tooltips. We should just know how strong they are? Or perhaps you'd like us to search all over the map for them and compare them like that?
No: it's YOUR job to make the player's life easy and add tooltips so they know which units to build.

The spells are very weak ('weak' meaning 'lacking').
One spell is sort of like a mass holy light, the other can't be upgraded.
The hero can't even select a spell every level, he has to wait until level 4-7 to get Holy Wrath to level 2-3, there are no other spells to fill those unspent skill points.
I also had trouble trying to deal damage with the boomerang... when I noticed this, I turned on whosyourdaddy and shot the boomerang in the middle of a large group of enemies (2 times: once at zombies, the other time at oozes). Strangely, not one enemy got killed (even though the boomerang went right through them). Care to check this out?

There aren't any upgrades, items or other researches to make up for the lack of units either.
Just a few units you can make (and you don't even know what you're making until they're ready), 1 spell to level up and 2 spells to use in total. That's the short summary of all objects you can use, in my eyes way too short.


Gameplay:
A typical defense/survival, with the exception that nothing is explained.
How do I even know whether the difficulty is easy, hard or evil? There are no game messages to tell me the difficulty has changed...
The only explanation is in the loading screen, which goes too fast to properly read (I had to wait a while before 'pressing any key' just so I could read what I had to do).

How about game messages when a wave is coming? Or when your hero has been revived? Or hell, just a little game message about how to play?
Or a quest message about the gameplay, that could help as well.

Every unit takes ages to build, so you'll have to manage with a very small group of units.
Even then, you don't have a lot of choice between the units either, as I wasn't able to build "Basic unit from the kingdom of Fewt", "Basic unit from the kingdom of Fewt" (YES: TWICE! Twice the same goddamn name! How the hell are we supposed to choose which unit to build if they're described the exact same way?!) and "Ranged Unit from the kingdom of Fewt".
I don't know WHY I couldn't, I just wasn't able to. It was greyed out the entire time...



Overview
I have told you a LOT of things to improve in this text. I will not give you a list as to what to improve as I might forget a few things.
The most important is the lack of any information though, non-existing tooltips, not even a game message when you change the difficulty etc - how are we supposed to know what's going on if you don't tell us?

There's just so much wrong with the map and so little going on that I cannot possibly rate this any higher than a 1/5.
If you're saying this review sucks, or I am a bad reviewer, then I will stop talking to you entirely and classify you as a mindless idiot.

 

[ap0calypse]

I work as hard as I can Izanagi but if you noticed I require idea's to be able to work and nobody has provided me with new idea's.

Instead of adding new things, how about fixing what is wrong first? We've given you plenty of things to fix.
If you start adding new things now, you'll only be adding more and more rubbish.

Also: there's something called a "Map Development" forum.
That's where you go when you need ideas.
Here is where you go once you finished your map.

The joke's on you.

ap0calypse you sadden me, how could a troll get so high in power.

[...]

Well apparently the hive is the hive for mindless trolls.

Yeah, just leave... we're all just trying to troll you here. That's what we really want.
We love it when we bash your maps and reject them for no reason at all.

That's the hive for ya: lots of trolls (especially the moderators) and sometimes a heroic, brave user like you, trying to improve his map, which is impossible here on the hive since nobody gives any useful comment.

 

[Slayer14]

I work as hard as I can Izanagi but if you noticed I require idea's to be able to work and nobody has provided me with new idea's.

ap0calypse you sadden me, how could a troll get so high in power.

By the way, the way I gather idea's is a unique way for I make everyone flame me in hopes of getting a new idea and it works. Examples above.

High regen is 10+

Well apparently the hive is the hive for mindless trolls.

Dude, what do think this is:

Quote:

Before reading:

Vehster, do you even know how many people here on the hive are dying to get such great reviews as the one posted here?
There are about 350 pending maps that are still waiting for that and thousands that get approved/rejected without a full review.
Not only did you receive 2 (3 including this post) of those, you also just blew them away as if they were crap.

I have done my best to review your map, just read it: it's for your own good.



Anything that is listed is helpful, you shouldn't look at the quantity.


Sadly, you can't.


A 2HP/s regen is a high regen. The lowest HP regen in the game (not counting your own soldiers) is 1.00, though the most common zombies have a 2.00/5.00 HP regen.


What the hell is that going to do? Help you? I'm pretty sure it won't do anything.
Besides, if I can't punish you with -rep, I punish you with temporary bans and infractions.


How would a 5/5 be helpful? He told you what to improve.
A rating of 1/5 (when commented) is far more helpful than any other rating, I've been around long enough to know that. You just didn't realize it yet.


And you're talking about childish behaviour? Please take a good look at yourself first.


That's your opinion. Unprotected maps are far easier to review.
But okay, I deprotected your map (as you obviously weren't planning on giving it me yourself) and here's a short comment of what I think about the map:


Terrain:
The terrain was very poorly done.
On the bottom of the map, there are quite a lot of cinematic doodads. These should always be avoided (only the orange fire might be used in some cases, yet still not adviced).
The tileset needs a lot of improvement. The transition between different tiles, for example. Small 'spots' of a different tile don't make the terrain look good, instead it makes it look a lot worse.

When placing doodads, keep in mind that they should actually fit the map - placing random doodads all over the place is something you do not want.
Those pipes are way too random, I don't see how they could possibly fit there.
The barricades have been spammed, something else you should never do: spam doodads.



Objects:
The tooltips and names of all objects really are horrible.
Do you know why people use tooltips? They're there so the player can see what the hell he is doing.
If your tooltip is just "you summon and throw the holy boomerang...", then you can expect a shitstorm about messy tooltips.
Even worse: the units didn't even have tooltips. We should just know how strong they are? Or perhaps you'd like us to search all over the map for them and compare them like that?
No: it's YOUR job to make the player's life easy and add tooltips so they know which units to build.

The spells are very weak ('weak' meaning 'lacking').
One spell is sort of like a mass holy light, the other can't be upgraded.
The hero can't even select a spell every level, he has to wait until level 4-7 to get Holy Wrath to level 2-3, there are no other spells to fill those unspent skill points.
I also had trouble trying to deal damage with the boomerang... when I noticed this, I turned on whosyourdaddy and shot the boomerang in the middle of a large group of enemies (2 times: once at zombies, the other time at oozes). Strangely, not one enemy got killed (even though the boomerang went right through them). Care to check this out?

There aren't any upgrades, items or other researches to make up for the lack of units either.
Just a few units you can make (and you don't even know what you're making until they're ready), 1 spell to level up and 2 spells to use in total. That's the short summary of all objects you can use, in my eyes way too short.


Gameplay:
A typical defense/survival, with the exception that nothing is explained.
How do I even know whether the difficulty is easy, hard or evil? There are no game messages to tell me the difficulty has changed...
The only explanation is in the loading screen, which goes too fast to properly read (I had to wait a while before 'pressing any key' just so I could read what I had to do).

How about game messages when a wave is coming? Or when your hero has been revived? Or hell, just a little game message about how to play?
Or a quest message about the gameplay, that could help as well.

Every unit takes ages to build, so you'll have to manage with a very small group of units.
Even then, you don't have a lot of choice between the units either, as I wasn't able to build "Basic unit from the kingdom of Fewt", "Basic unit from the kingdom of Fewt" (YES: TWICE! Twice the same goddamn name! How the hell are we supposed to choose which unit to build if they're described the exact same way?!) and "Ranged Unit from the kingdom of Fewt".
I don't know WHY I couldn't, I just wasn't able to. It was greyed out the entire time...



Overview
I have told you a LOT of things to improve in this text. I will not give you a list as to what to improve as I might forget a few things.
The most important is the lack of any information though, non-existing tooltips, not even a game message when you change the difficulty etc - how are we supposed to know what's going on if you don't tell us?

There's just so much wrong with the map and so little going on that I cannot possibly rate this any higher than a 1/5.
If you're saying this review sucks, or I am a bad reviewer, then I will stop talking to you entirely and classify you as a mindless idiot.

He has clearly provided many suggestions and things for you to change. Like Izanagi and everyone else here said, you shouldn't just instantly reject people's reviews. We are all telling you this, but you're just not listening.

Ap0 saddens you? Well you sadden me.

 

[ap0calypse]

new list of stuff...

• The tooltips! Oh god! (see screenshots below).
• Spells need improvement (I didn't even know what that boomerang was doing... seriously).
• Weird walls (see screenshots).
• Terrain hasn't really been improved, still as bad as it used to be.
• Still no game messages.
• I can't see any info on how to win, nowhere.
• What do the difficulties do exactly?
• Most icons are useless (they don't fit in the game), I suggest removing them.
• There are still skill points I can't assign due to the lack of spells.
• I killed the final boss (probably), nothing happened...

That's what I could get in a short notice.

Descriptions

Bad copy/paste, but aside from that: seriously? You call that tooltips?
The units' tooltips look like you don't even know how to work with the object editor.
These tooltips tell us nothing.

The middle one is a special case: it is the game's description. It says we can never win (and from my experience, that is true).
A game should be finishable.

Weird walls

Yeah... what are those?

 

[Slayer14]

Reviewing a 15 minute minigame takes time? No wonder why nothing gets done around here.

Of course reviewing takes time, especially if the reviewer takes his time to carefully take a look at everything on the map. Anyone could just whip up a quick map review in about 5 minutes, but we don't. Most people want to give you through map review that will help you improve your map.

Oh, and reviews aren't to say, "Your map sucks!" They (well, most) are to say, "Hmm, this map has potential, but right now it's not that great. It needs a little improvement. Keep working though." I don't think you are taking these reviews the right way.

 

[Arisato]

you should make it rejected until fixed

 

[ap0calypse]

you should make it rejected until fixed

I just reset it to pending...

 

[Arisato]

ooh, but you didn't do the same for some other maps -_-' anyways, back on topic

 

[Arisato]

bump??

 

[-Kobas-]

Please forget about this map.
Find some defense templates here we have them and base your map on them.
Find team and work together (terrainer for start).
Download systems and abilities if you can't create same on your own.

And for the end improve/fix/"make it better" map description.
6 Downloads for 1 month should tell you something.

Another thing, we all can see that you are new to map making, please, use this forum 24/7 (yes even post questions like where should I edit hero name or whatever) ↓

World Editor Help Zone (xxx Viewing) Ask general questions about World Editor features and use in this forum. If you need help fixing a trigger, please post it in Triggers & Scripts. Please review the forum rules before posting. Sub-Forums: Request a Resource

People will do anything for rep or 2.

After month or 2 when you learn how to imagine map, test your skills once again here ↓

Map Development (xxx Viewing) Talk about your developing projects. Release beta tests and get useful feedback before the final release. Maps should be attached to your post. Sub-Forums: Idea Factory, Project Recruitment, Cinematics, Request a Resource

I have nothing more to say, I just hope to see you back in map section with epic map in few months.
Have a nice day.

 

[Vehster]

No, work on your English as well.