Zombie Shooter V3.3 FIXED

[takethat]

now that the map had be approved, your continues arguement seems destructive.

especially suggesting some one to stop making map,

as i could recall (just look through all 4 pages),

why are u so defensive? You yourself said it was a test map, doesn't sound like a full map to me. Just because u make a SYSTEM doesn't mean the map will make it on it's own. to test your system, simply call up a friend, host a private game, and see if everything is working. Or you can do as others say and upload it to another section and not worry about disapproval.

i admit i fail to see any constructive comment on the map, this is not a plain system, he had already host many private game, his clan member had help tested it.

"We only want a decently polish map." -Septimus
As I recall, you yourself admitted the map was not done when it was submitted at first, when he reviewed your map. Being pissed at a mod will only hurt yourself, you can't just come to the hive and demand respect


I am going to test this map even though as far as i'm concerned, it is just a waste of time since i trust the moderators more than you. But you will have my unbiased opinion

the map is "done" in terms of gameplay, terrain is not gameplay, no construtive comment either as you do not want to test it,

Ok i tried it, i am going to cap on the original review.

*The terrain is more then horrible* I felt it was just misplaced rather. I mean we are living in an age of zombies and terror, but there is a base perfectly put in the center, with NO WALLS OR DEFENSES, how could this be? The terrain should be ****** up. If there is any base left, it has HIGH levels of defense to keep what is left of it, or it would be gone. If not, it is abandoned and not looking anything like what you put out.

*The game is very boring to play, due to no modes, no nothing, it's just shot zombies, very monotone and dull* Agreed, map should be a lot bigger too. Use other zombie/survival maps as an example. In this, weapons 'fall' within the weird base, and outside is just a foot away. You also know where the zombies are going to come from ALL the time.

*The heroes, actually the hero is nothing, just guns and attribute bonuses, unoriginal as said* I don't know, stats might be ok. You need grenades/c4 kinda stuff though, i would prefer classes.

All in all it felt like i was playing a Castle defense where the castle was not worth defending. I never even felt i could capatalize on the shops. The map was small, zombies were so predictable and then just swarmed in to our limited huddle. Not great, i did like the shooting system, if you paired that up with an allstar zombie map i would love it. Bullets need to do more damage though

i had reply to your this particular "good pieces of advice" even Septimus had answered to it, yet you refuse to see it? so i have to quote my own reply... as follow

you think the terrain is horrible? in which part? how horrible is it? what had misplaced? saying it is horrible is not constructive at all. and whats that "******"?

you say it is in an age of zombies and terror, which the author did not said so, then you say the base must be perfectly defense, ignoring the fact that if this is a age of zombies and terror, how could such small "outpost-like" base be so perfect, like not being attack before? theres also a possibility that this base is in between a "not attacked" base heading to a "abandoned" base, does it in any rules that it must be either 1, can not be in between?



sooooo, weapon falls from the sky is just plain stupid? how about NOTD and Afterlife which had be approved? btw, they also all about shooting zombies.(especially Afterlife)




this is not a castle defense, it is a survival map, you doesnt lose if the castle being overrun by zombies, and you can not revival yourself after being overrun.

if zombies was so smart that it can not be predict, zombie will not be an equavalent word for mindless.

Kildare, i suggest you stop making maps if you are going to always be this stubborn. Unless of course, u want to play them by yourself

now this is the most unaccpetable one, totally rubbish in terms of "construtive comment",
if this consider a good constructive comment, why not ask WHO stop function, as it still unable to stop H1N1,
btw, if one doesnt stubborn, one can not success in anything, eg, if the British is not so stubborn, the isle should had be take over by Nazi german, if the Chinese is not so stubborn, Imperial Japan should be a very large country.

if a map maker not stubborn enought (reasonably ofcause) he wouldnt have be able to even finish it.

well as your map aint "perfectly good" now, you may as well start making changes, starting from the ones to get it APPROVED directed by the mods. And you can at least consider advice, instead of getting all defensive. In my opinion, I gave you some good pieces of advice but you were too busy trying to argue with the mod (no idea why he is wasting his time here) to even look at them. I just think it is ironic that you are titled an Aspiring game designer when you only accept your own way of thinking

"perfectly good"... sorry, no such map, only have "reasonably perfect good" map, i haven't meet 1 map that i can totally satisfy at.

again, since the map had been approved, what now needed is improvement, NOT, at any point in this galaxy, STOP making map.

1 thing you are right, argue with you seems waste of time, my bad.

 

[Kildare]

duke-zip: for the record, I DID look at your comments. I even replied to it. but it seems you were to busy looking for reasons to shoot at me that you didn't check. And you failed to even look at my perspective at how i wanted the game to be like.

And if you would please do me the courtesy of actually reading my post before your reply, you'll even see how foolish your particular statement was.

 

[Septimus]

I going to be fair by evaluate duke-zip earliest review, to see if it was indeed constructive or not and hopefully end this once and for all.

Kildare, i suggest you stop making maps if you are going to always be this stubborn. Unless of course, u want to play them by yourself

If the map author are stubborn enough not to listen to constructive comment that are pointing the flaw of the map. Then it makes sense, but if he do listen. Then this point doesn't make any sense.

*The terrain is more then horrible* I felt it was just misplaced rather. I mean we are living in an age of zombies and terror, but there is a base perfectly put in the center, with NO WALLS OR DEFENSES, how could this be? The terrain should be ****** up. If there is any base left, it has HIGH levels of defense to keep what is left of it, or it would be gone. If not, it is abandoned and not looking anything like what you put out.

At here, you said the terrain is horrible and the base was perfect. Take that in mind that a perfect base doesn't mean a terrain was horrible.

You have to evaluate by telling the flaw of the map such as lack of tiles variation at specific area, destructible/doodad seems to be misplace or fog effect was set wrong. Not at how perfect a base would make it senseless at zombie era.

If the base is perfect without any wall or defense, it makes sense for the base to look perfect as well.

Let me ask you, would any human idiot enough to take cover at a base that cannot provide a defense to them? If there is no human at the spot, would there be any zombie?

After all, zombie was mutated from human. If there is a indeed human on it, there would be a zombie as well. If no human take refuge over there, there is no way to have any infected human to turn into zombie at there.

Infact, kildare could just said the marine stumble upon this place and prepare to make a defensive measure.

*The game is very boring to play, due to no modes, no nothing, it's just shot zombies, very monotone and dull* Agreed, map should be a lot bigger too. Use other zombie/survival maps as an example. In this, weapons 'fall' within the weird base, and outside is just a foot away. You also know where the zombies are going to come from ALL the time.

At here, it contain some constructive point that failed to give a elaboration about it.

He could mention the gameplay was repetitive, the creep was same all over again despite 5 minutes of gameplay and so on.

*The heroes, actually the hero is nothing, just guns and attribute bonuses, unoriginal as said* I don't know, stats might be ok. You need grenades/c4 kinda stuff though, i would prefer classes.

At here, he could elaborate it much better. For example, he could said it was unoriginal and have something to back up his point such as given link to another zombie genre map that have similiar or exact function.

This part could be consider as constructive as well, but lack of evidence to back it up.

All in all it felt like i was playing a Castle defense where the castle was not worth defending. I never even felt i could capatalize on the shops. The map was small, zombies were so predictable and then just swarmed in to our limited huddle. Not great, i did like the shooting system, if you paired that up with an allstar zombie map i would love it. Bullets need to do more damage though

At this part, it was more towards conclusion. I do not think any constructive point at here, but more of his opinion of the replayability values.

My conclusion at who is right or wrong would be like this.

BOTH SIDE ARE WRONG.

Why?

Kildare, i suggest you stop making maps if you are going to always be this stubborn. Unless of course, u want to play them by yourself

At this point, Kildare show a sign of being stubborn. But not completely stubborn, if he indeed stubborn. He would not fix what I have told.

Why I said he show a sign of being stubborn and too defensive?

At kildare profile, I notice a negative reputation by ~Void~ writing clearly about your maturity level and it seem to be done at a thread entitle "Unfair Rejection".

If kildare isn't being too defensive and stubborn in defending his map, he would not earn -rep at the thread.

At this point, duke-zip is right of him being stubborn. But only partially right.

As for duke-zip, he was wrong as well. A partial part of his review are constructive, but he did not give a proper elaboration or have anything to support his arguement.

Hopefully this clear everything out.

 

[Kildare]

At kildare profile, I notice a negative reputation by ~Void~ writing clearly about your maturity level and it seem to be done at a thread entitle "Unfair Rejection".

If kildare isn't being too defensive and stubborn in defending his map, he would not earn -rep at the thread.

At this point, duke-zip is right of him being stubborn. But only partially right.

As for duke-zip, he was wrong as well. A partial part of his review are constructive, but he did not give a proper elaboration or have anything to support his arguement.

Hopefully this clear everything out.

Actually you're wrong about this part. Void gave me a -rep without properly knowing what the situation was, because i shot at him for doing so. He came flaming at me WEEKS after i posted the complaint thread and after i replied saying that matter was solved. And you seem to be doing the same thing regarding this issue as well.

 

[duke-zip]

What i actually did was cap on the original review since I saw it wasn't approved. I have no idea how that is not constructive to download an unapproved map and see where it was lacking, or where things were not fitting in. And no, 4 pages of arguing is more than unnecessary, and if you seek review and criticism to help your map grow, then hey, that's fine with me. But if you shoot down advice. I did see your response to my review, and it was only an insult when you said I gave you unimportant, predictable information. And you gave no reason "why" it was useless advice beside the fact that it is a "simple map".

And @takethat: Was it so hard to see i was quoting the original review? When did i say I say the terrain was horrible? Never, i was quoting and responding to the original mod review. I question if you even read my review since you seem to think everything i said was bad towards the map, and in no way shape or form understood a thing of what i was saying (read it over)

sooooo, weapon falls from the sky is just plain stupid? how about NOTD and Afterlife which had be approved? btw, they also all about shooting zombies.(especially Afterlife)

i said "In this, weapons 'fall' within the weird base, and outside is just a foot away." In other games, you must SEARCH for weapons. They don't come straight to you!

this is not a castle defense, it is a survival map

My post: "All in all it >>>>>FELT<<<<< like i was playing a Castle defense where the castle was not worth defending

if zombies was so smart that it can not be predict, zombie will not be an equavalent word for mindless.

what i meant by "zombies were so predictable and then just swarmed in to our limited huddle," is that the zombies spawn in 4 corners. Done. The scary thing about a zombie is the wonder around mindlessly, so no where is safe to hide because they have no reasoning on where to check and not check. This map was too small, so if it remains this small it probably should be a BASE DEFENSE.

you say it is in an age of zombies and terror, which the author did not said so, then you say the base must be perfectly defense, ignoring the fact that if this is a age of zombies and terror, how could such small "outpost-like" base be so perfect, like not being attack before? theres also a possibility that this base is in between a "not attacked" base heading to a "abandoned" base, does it in any rules that it must be either 1, can not be in between?

since i have almost no idea what you just said and how it had to do with what i said, i will do my best to respond to this. If it is an abandoned building, why does it look so polished? It should have broken corners, bad texture, and open corners where the zombies can sneak inside. Or else it is a firm structure, a base, one of the last bases in this area, which must have defenses for reasons of it still being up and clean. If there are zombies, it is most likely an age of terror, unless you picture zombies strolling through flower fields from your experiences.

 

[Kildare]

It should have broken corners, bad texture, and open corners where the zombies can sneak inside.

Lol, I thought i did pretty much make it look like that.


Alright, since everyone is complaining about how small the map is, i will CONSIDER making a bigger terrain.

 

[takethat]

i make this short, since you still give comment base on the original review and original map, which is like few version back, and obviously later on the map get approved, why you still ask him stop making?

i guess Septimus suggestion of checking the a area around a random point that is no people there, then only spawn will solve the problem of the wierd suddenly appear of weapon, dont you think?

though i dont have problem with Afterlife and NOTD, i must say this, if you play it with open map (no fog), you will see zombies go straight to you, theres no stupid searching an empty room thingy

Reason i make such a long post back there to include almost all of your post is simply because you suggest him to start making map when altough he keep argueing with the mod, he did improve it step by step, i think most people wouldnt be appreciate to see a post with a line asking them stop making map like that, atleast i feel quite offensive.

and again, if you did not see the recent version, please stop making funny comment that base on already past version,

the outskirt no longer without tiles varietion, no longer doodadless, the base no longer smooth and pretty, zombies dont spawn from 4 corner, it spawn from 8 direction...

any further comment should base on the newest version, isnt that more logical?


Lastly, you try to make a 4 side fort with 4 entrance that stair to lead onto the wall, AND then make a broken entrance for the zombie, it will be very helpful if you can do something that you suggest, not simply imagine it. (only terrain)

 

[Kildare]

Ok, all the arguing and logical inconsistencies of this discussion aside, the BIG main point here is, for the 100 millionth time i shall repeat myself, is that this map was designed to be simple and small. I don't really give a damn whether you think it's weird to have zombies keep coming from the same directions(they can only come from those 8 directions, WHERE ELSE can they come from? You want them to spawn in mid-air?) or whether the fort looks realistic or not(which i've already tried my best to make it look real). All games are bound to have their weird points after all. That's why it's a game. It's not bloody real life. -_-'

 

[Septimus]

map was designed to be simple

Your design is too simple.

don't really give a damn whether you think it's weird to have zombies keep coming from the same directions(they can only come from those 8 directions, WHERE ELSE can they come from? You want them to spawn in mid-air?)

Lol.. nice idea.. you can make them parachute from the sky..

 

[Kildare]

Lol and you accuse me of not being realistic. =P

 

[duke-zip]

i make this short, since you still give comment base on the original review and original map, which is like few version back, and obviously later on the map get approved, why you still ask him stop making?

My first review cap was on the first page in a earlier version

i guess Septimus suggestion of checking the a area around a random point that is no people there, then only spawn will solve the problem of the wierd suddenly appear of weapon, dont you think?

what?

though i dont have problem with Afterlife and NOTD, i must say this, if you play it with open map (no fog), you will see zombies go straight to you, theres no stupid searching an empty room thingy

Yes, the map is big, i see no problem with that

Reason i make such a long post back there to include almost all of your post is simply because you suggest him to start making map when altough he keep argueing with the mod, he did improve it step by step, i think most people wouldnt be appreciate to see a post with a line asking them stop making map like that, atleast i feel quite offensive.

yes, there were times when he was offensive to the mod and some posters too.

the outskirt no longer without tiles varietion, no longer doodadless, the base no longer smooth and pretty, zombies dont spawn from 4 corner, it spawn from 8 direction...

4 doors right? 4 entrances

any further comment should base on the newest version, isnt that more logical?

you said this 3 times in one post

Lastly, you try to make a 4 side fort with 4 entrance that stair to lead onto the wall, AND then make a broken entrance for the zombie, it will be very helpful if you can do something that you suggest, not simply imagine it. (only terrain)

I am not a map maker, my title is not "aspiring game designer" if u didn't notice. Am i not supposed to suggest features that will fit the map better?

and i would appreciate if YOU would stop addressing me unless it is related to map growth

 

[duke-zip]

I don't really give a damn whether you think it's weird to have zombies keep coming from the same directions(they can only come from those 8 directions, WHERE ELSE can they come from? You want them to spawn in mid-air?) It's not bloody real life. -_-'

there is nothing weird, if you had a base. then yes, zombies would be surrounding the target point and it would all make sense. Otherwise, small map+predictable spawn is just... almost pointless.

I don't really give a damn whether you think it's weird

this is the attitude i got from you and why I said to not submit maps (so takethat can see)

 

[Kildare]

I'm only giving this "attitude" because you're making a fuss over something that i can't do anything about unless i revamp the whole terrain, and because it is really not important whether it's weird or not. If you think that games should not have these "weird" things(your definition), then you might as well don't play anything.

I am not a map maker, my title is not "aspiring game designer" if u didn't notice. Am i not supposed to suggest features that will fit the map better?

What takethat is trying to say is that some suggestions can never be done due to limitations with the Warcraft system or the mapmaker's ability. So he's saying that you shouldn't suggest something that cannot be done. And worst still considering you have no idea how making a map works, judging from what you've just said about yourself.

4 doors right? 4 entrances

Again, he's trying to tell you that when compared to the first version i published, the terrain is a vast improvement from before.

there is nothing weird, if you had a base. then yes, zombies would be surrounding the target point and it would all make sense. Otherwise, small map+predictable spawn is just... almost pointless.

Err, dude, the fort is your base. What else do you want? And do you know that the Marines have abilities to build defenses? And the reason i didn't add anything more to the fort is because i want to give players the freedom of making their own defenses, and the base is easy enough to defend as it is.

As for "predictable spawns", how would you suggest i make it less...."predictable"? I have yet to hear a solution from you. Do you want me to spawn them out from thin air? And here you were telling me that the map is "weird", and yet you want me to make it weirder.'

EDIT: And for the record, even games like Afterlife and NotD have "predictable" spawn locations, once you've played them long enough.

 

[takethat]

before i begin, i need to apologize to duke-zip as i though he did not test the map, (so i had misread)

My first review cap was on the first page in a earlier version

i knew your first post is base on earlier version? but how about those later on?

what?

i asking do you agree on Septimus's suggestion?

Yes, the map is big, i see no problem with that

i begin to wonder if you ever play Afterlife or NOTD, where it is so obviouse that no matter how big the map is, zombies are always predictable, though NOTD is harder but you can actually win solo in Afterlife without cheat,
(tips in Afterlife? lure zombies in straight line around the map, 2 round down you wouldnt have any supprise of zombies suddenly coming from infront or flank, so predictable.)

in this case, smaller map make you even harder to avoid being overrun by zombies

yes, there were times when he was offensive to the mod and some posters too.

when i use "offensive" i meant you, the very motivation for me to make such a long post is entirely thx to your "stop making map" suggestion. Also i think Septimus agree on this too.

4 doors right? 4 entrances

4 entrance for the fort, 8 spawn point for zombies,

you said this 3 times in one post

yes, because i think for some one to continue to comment should have always updated themself, its not a rule or law, but rather is a common sense.

I am not a map maker, my title is not "aspiring game designer" if u didn't notice. Am i not supposed to suggest features that will fit the map better?

Person A said to a Artist "Stop drawing, you shouldnt draw like this, you should draw like that"

Person B said to the same Artist "Hi there, i think this drawing can be draw like this, or like that, dont you think so?"

Person A and Person B are both not artist, whom will be more appreciated?

people are suppose to suggest features that is best fit the map under the obvious condition that it can be done with the World Editor.
(you can list some map, and i can download them, play it, and give you thousand of suggestion that can not be done but is "best fit the map" and realistic)

and i would appreciate if YOU would stop addressing me unless it is related to map growth

Does "I SUGGEST YOU STOP MAKING MAP" related to map growth?
Does "WHY YOU SO DEFENSIVE, WHY YOU SO STUBBORN" related to map growth?

btw, dont double post, try use copy and paste

 

[duke-zip]

before i begin, i need to apologize to duke-zip as i though he did not test the map, (so i had misread)

Then why is this post full of more trash to try to hammer me?

i knew your first post is base on earlier version? but how about those later on?

the ones later on were not reviews

i begin to wonder if you ever play Afterlife or NOTD, where it is so obviouse that no matter how big the map is, zombies are always predictable

Who said they didn't come right to you? But a zombie placed on the upright corner of the map will take 10x as long to reach someone in the middle than in this map. And they will have obstacles to walk around, the spawns are still not as predictable, so you can wonder around and never know if you will bump into zombies. In zombie shooter, step out the base = zombies, or even inside the base, but he claims it should not be a base defense map. And about them you saying they "are always predictable", i was responding to Kidare's comment about mindless zombies.

in this case, smaller map make you even harder to avoid being overrun by zombies

Not true at all, there are many factors that determine how hard it is to stop from being overrun. And i thought this wasn't a base defense, what is there to protect from gettin overrun except ur own life?

when i use "offensive" i meant you, the very motivation for me to make such a long post is entirely thx to your "stop making map" suggestion. Also i think Septimus agree on this too.

that was to make him realize his obvious attitude on not wanting to improve the map and not caring about people's input. When a coach tells you "you may as well quit if you can't do 5 more pushups," he doesn't mean quit, but trying to get you on focus to be ready for any upcoming event. With the 3 pages off BS there is much reasoning behind it that you fail to see.

4 entrance for the fort, 8 spawn point for zombies,

But 4 entrances right? It doesn't matter if there are 20 spawn points, they can only fit into the 4 entrances.

yes, because i think for some one to continue to comment should have always updated themself, its not a rule or law, but rather is a common sense.

not when i reply to a post rather than the map itself

Person A said to a Artist "Stop drawing, you shouldnt draw like this, you should draw like that"

Person B said to the same Artist "Hi there, i think this drawing can be draw like this, or like that, dont you think so?"

Person A and Person B are both not artist, whom will be more appreciated?

Oh great, because these apply to any conditions? Well what if Person C does not listen to person B? Then person B will turn into person A, already this theory has very limited options.

people are suppose to suggest features that is best fit the map under the obvious condition that it can be done with the World Editor.

I did, what's your point? Or rather i do not want to hear your point because that will only create another long post.

Does "I SUGGEST YOU STOP MAKING MAP" related to map growth?

well if the map will not grow, then it does not apply to whether it helps map growth. DOES ALL CAPS HELP TO TRY TO MAKE MY POSTS LOOK OBNOCTIOUS?

Does "WHY YOU SO DEFENSIVE, WHY YOU SO STUBBORN" related to map growth?

yes... if he is disregarding good advice why not tell him... what is your problem

btw, dont double post, try use copy and paste

i didn't, don't post to me unless you actually have something truly useful, unless you rather fill up this thread with useless comments

 

[Kildare]

Not true at all, there are many factors that determine how hard it is to stop from being overrun. And i thought this wasn't a base defense, what is there to protect from gettin overrun except ur own life?

Oh? Please do elaborate on these "factors" you keep talking about, while KEEPING IN MIND that this map was meant to be small and SIMPLE, and that the players are supposed to build up THEIR OWN defenses?

that was to make him realize his obvious attitude on not wanting to improve the map and not caring about people's input. When a coach tells you "you may as well quit if you can't do 5 more pushups," he doesn't mean quit, but trying to get you on focus to be ready for any upcoming event. With the 3 pages off BS there is much reasoning behind it that you fail to see.

It's not that i dun care about the input, it's more that i see whether the input is NECESSARY and that the person who's giving the input knows what he's talking about. As Septimus already mentioned MUCH earlier, if i didn't want the map to grow, i wouldn't have made the changes he had requested. Your analogy only applies if the instructor is QUALIFIED to give you instructions in the first place. No way that a person of higher rank would obey the instructions of one of a lower rank, only that he'll listen to any advice the said person is willing to give.

But 4 entrances right? It doesn't matter if there are 20 spawn points, they can only fit into the 4 entrances.

This only applies IF you are FORCED to stay within the fort.

Oh great, because these apply to any conditions? Well what if Person C does not listen to person B? Then person B will turn into person A, already this theory has very limited options.

You did not understand what takethat was trying to imply. He's saying that anybody can give comments, but whether or not they are QUALIFIED or in the RIGHT perspective to give those comments, is another matter altogether. Unless the person giving the comment is a PEER to the person he's giving the comment to, he does not see in the perspective that the artist is looking at, therefore making his comment inapplicable. In other words, if i were to put it bluntly, judging by your profile, YOU do not have any QUALIFICATION nor the basis to tell us what can be done because YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how the world editor works.

Originally Posted by takethat View Post
people are suppose to suggest features that is best fit the map under the obvious condition that it can be done with the World Editor.

I did, what's your point? Or rather i do not want to hear your point because that will only create another long post.

This is related to what i said above. You are suggesting something that can't be done with the world editor(regarding the fort having "holes") unless the entire terrain is revamped(which means the fort cannot use any cliff terrains, if you even know what i'm talking about).

well if the map will not grow, then it does not apply to whether it helps map growth. DOES ALL CAPS HELP TO TRY TO MAKE MY POSTS LOOK OBNOCTIOUS?

No, he's merely trying to put emphasis on what you said incase you were too blind to see it.

yes... if he is disregarding good advice why not tell him... what is your problem

That is assuming it was good advice in the first place.

i didn't, don't post to me unless you actually have something truly useful, unless you rather fill up this thread with useless comments

Ermm, you did double post. Even i saw that.

 

[duke-zip]

Oh wow Kildare. At least takethat knew how to post in your defense. Your post is full of BS I don't even know where to begin. But it is your map so I will leave you to it. Yes i was too blind to read my own post, good one, whatever helps you make sense of your great superiority

 

[Kildare]

Oh wow Kildare. At least takethat knew how to post in your defense. Your post is full of BS I don't even know where to begin. But it is your map so I will leave you to it. Yes i was too blind to read my own post, good one, whatever helps you make sense of your great superiority

You contradict yourself. You just said his post was full of BS and now you said mine is coz i was hammering you with it? Nice try.

You may think i'm being snobbish, but what i said was merely out of truth. You were just unable to comprehend it, that's all. It's just obvious you were unable to answer to my statements hence you just try and hammer me back with whatever you can salvage. At any rate, you were the one who asked for this, since i've already said back then to leave it be, but noooo, you just had to post more of YOUR BS.

 

[takethat]

Then why is this post full of more trash to try to hammer me?

I apologize on “a” mistake I made, doesn’t meant everything I post before are mistake,
Can you state on how and when I hammer you? Every post I made is based on your post, I merely pointing out my view point over your comment, “why are you so defensive? And stubborn?”

the ones later on were not reviews

So again, you continue to make comment without review on latest version? Then I remind you again all comment and suggestion should base on the latest version.

Who said they didn't come right to you? But a zombie placed on the upright corner of the map will take 10x as long to reach someone in the middle than in this map. And they will have obstacles to walk around, the spawns are still not as predictable, so you can wonder around and never know if you will bump into zombies. In zombie shooter, step out the base = zombies, or even inside the base, but he claims it should not be a base defence map. And about them you saying they "are always predictable", i was responding to Kidare's comment about mindless zombies.

Spawn point are not predictable because they are pre set, you doesn’t need to predict at all, after few game down, more or less you figure out the place, in the end it doesn’t matter any more.

A base defense map is when you have to defend the base, normally creep will not chase hero if not on sight instead will rush for the base. If having a fort in the map makes it Base Defence, there are dozen of base in Afterlife, it doesn’t make it a Base Defence map. Zombies chase the marine and don’t rush for the fort.

Not true at all, there are many factors that determine how hard it is to stop from being overrun. And i thought this wasn't a base defense, what is there to protect from gettin overrun except ur own life?

I have to say you are right, it is the hero itself I talking about that you don’t want to be overrun by the zombies.
Anyway, isn’t the available space to run one of the factors how hard it is to be overrun?

that was to make him realize his obvious attitude on not wanting to improve the map and not caring about people's input. When a coach tells you "you may as well quit if you can't do 5 more pushups," he doesn't mean quit, but trying to get you on focus to be ready for any upcoming event. With the 3 pages off BS there is much reasoning behind it that you fail to see.

I sorry to say, you not his coach, so why imagine yourself to be his coach? Obviously, using this type of attitude is not the right way to advice some one who you not close to. (taking into consideration that he had indeed improve the map, your statement holds no water)

There could be thousands of reason why you should murder a person, but it doesn’t change the fact that you “murder” him.

But 4 entrances right? It doesn't matter if there are 20 spawn points, they can only fit into the 4 entrances.

You ignore the fact that this map is going to have vs mode in future, and by now, dead marine will change into zombies who is able to buy troops (more zombies), having more entrance only helps in contribution of imbalances.
By now, 4 marine against 1 zombie player already very hard to play, you know if you had update.

not when i reply to a post rather than the map itself

You give your comment on the map, I feel the comment is inappropriate, so I point out to you what you had miss,
In conclusion, you give comments that wanted to show the bad of the map, I give comment base on your comment that wanted to show the good of the map. Nothing personal here.

Oh great, because these apply to any conditions? Well what if Person C does not listen to person B? Then person B will turn into person A, already this theory has very limited options.

Yes, the option is limited, it is not absolute but the appropriate way will be to tell the artist your idea “nicely”. It doesn’t matter anyway for the sake of the example if there are Person Z or ZZ.

The example I use is widely used in moral class, (at least in my school time) and it is about manner towards other and the friendly way to give comment on others’ work.

I did, what's your point? Or rather i do not want to hear your point because that will only create another long post.

Good to know that, please elaborate how to do the things you suggest, I quite interested to know how to do it, “a hole on the wall”

well if the map will not grow, then it does not apply to whether it helps map growth. DOES ALL CAPS HELP TO TRY TO MAKE MY POSTS LOOK OBNOCTIOUS?
yes... if he is disregarding good advice why not tell him... what is your problem

Haha, sorry for laughing, yes if it doesn’t grow, don’t you see the mod already approved the map? And saying the author had modify and comply to the mod’s suggestion?
What is your continues argument that is based on outdated version contribute? How bad it “was”?
No, don’t be self centre, how could ALL caps does that.

My problem? Not exactly my problem,
1st, the map had be improved, you fail to see that,
2nd, suggest something that can not be done is trash
3rd, bad manner helps no one,

How to define an advice is good or bad? Useful = good, useless = bad, suggest something cant be done = useless (noted that ideas are not rejected immediately but should be after some thinking and trial.)

i didn't, don't post to me unless you actually have something truly useful, unless you rather fill up this thread with useless comments

You quote my post in one post, then you quote Kildare’s post in another post in a row, thus Double Post.
Double Post is against the rules, it is above comments or discussion and it is not useless to remind some one that they had double post, why are you so defensive?

 

[Kildare]

Double Post is against the rules, it is above comments or discussion and it is not useless to remind some one that they had double post, why are you so defensive?

Rofl. WORD! xD

 

[duke-zip]

Well here you go, you are very convincing to waste someone's time.

Oh? Please do elaborate on these "factors" you keep talking about, while KEEPING IN MIND that this map was meant to be small and SIMPLE

You keep saying this, but it has been agreed that your map is TOO simple but obviously you don't care. Then why post it up here? You should care. Unless it is some un-prioritized publicity u want.

It's not that i dun care about the input, it's more that i see whether the input is NECESSARY and that the person who's giving the input knows what he's talking about. As Septimus already mentioned MUCH earlier, if i didn't want the map to grow, i wouldn't have made the changes he had requested. Your analogy only applies if the instructor is QUALIFIED to give you instructions in the first place. No way that a person of higher rank would obey the instructions of one of a lower rank, only that he'll listen to any advice the said person is willing to give.

Yes, you say this. AFTER you tried to make a petition for unfair disapprove. AFTER you made many comments arguing with why you shouldn't need to make changes to get approved. AFTER you said the changes are not needed because it is a simple map. There are also many more posts that you use to shut down bad input, when the input is not really bad, but a suggestion to improve.

This only applies IF you are FORCED to stay within the fort.

Okay, and would u stand on a zombie spawn point? Maybe "build a base" on one of em? Because the minute you go outside you are practically standing on spawns.

You did not understand what takethat was trying to imply. He's saying that anybody can give comments, but whether or not they are QUALIFIED or in the RIGHT perspective to give those comments, is another matter altogether. Unless the person giving the comment is a PEER to the person he's giving the comment to, he does not see in the perspective that the artist is looking at, therefore making his comment inapplicable. In other words, if i were to put it bluntly, judging by your profile, YOU do not have any QUALIFICATION nor the basis to tell us what can be done because have YOU ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how the world editor works.

Judging by my profile? My profile has all my credentials? Reading my profile, you know me and my abilities... hm. You know from the above post when you were talking about higher rank, i thought you were talking about the mod, so i thought you made sense. But you were talking about me being the lower class and that is the reason why i should and won't have any valid input to the map? Sorry i need to quote that again:

No way that a person of higher rank would obey the instructions of one of a lower rank

Ok, I didn't realize how untouchable you were. I am glad you found a place for your ego on the internet, if only i were a psychologist and could make reason to why you are so stubborn. But reason isn't everything

This is related to what i said above. You are suggesting something that can't be done with the world editor(regarding the fort having "holes") unless the entire terrain is revamped(which means the fort cannot use any cliff terrains, if you even know what i'm talking about).

Apparently you took this too seriously. Holes, LEAKS, like in any castle siege. There will eventually be spots for the forces to leak in.

No, he's merely trying to put emphasis on what you said incase you were too blind to see it.

Like i said earlier, reason aint everything. Don't make yourself look dumb trying to put some sort of illogical reasoning. If you don't think that made it look obnoctious u are well out of ur mind.

That is assuming it was good advice in the first place.

I will pray to the gods for some advice worthy of your map.

Ermm, you did double post. Even i saw that.

Okay, yes u are right. I thought he meant i had copied/pasted my response twice. good call, you are correct. I guess Kildare was already ready to celebrate "xD xD xD xD xD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[krisserz]

Too many quotes...

 

[Kildare]

You keep saying this, but it has been agreed that your map is TOO simple but obviously you don't care. Then why post it up here? You should care. Unless it is some un-prioritized publicity u want.

That's only to YOU and a select number of Mods. For me and many others i've played with, the map is fine as it is. And again, you've failed to understand that this map is meant as a PLAYABLE "prototype"(for the lack of a better word) map.

Yes, you say this. AFTER you tried to make a petition for unfair disapprove. AFTER you made many comments arguing with why you shouldn't need to make changes to get approved. AFTER you said the changes are not needed because it is a simple map. There are also many more posts that you use to shut down bad input, when the input is not really bad, but a suggestion to improve.

And yet you fail to see that I DO see that those are suggestions to improve the map, but that those suggestions are NOT NECESSARY in context to what i have in mind for the map. Also, i fail to see what your statement here has anything to do with the comment you quoted.

Judging by my profile? My profile has all my credentials? Reading my profile, you know me and my abilities... hm. You know from the above post when you were talking about higher rank, i thought you were talking about the mod, so i thought you made sense. But you were talking about me being the lower class and that is the reason why i should and won't have any valid input to the map? Sorry i need to quote that again:

Originally Posted by Kildare View Post
No way that a person of higher rank would obey the instructions of one of a lower rank

Okay, and would u stand on a zombie spawn point? Maybe "build a base" on one of em? Because the minute you go outside you are practically standing on spawns.

That's not true. When i play with others, we ALWAYS build outside of the base. This only proves you have not done the necessary "exploring" in the map to know what you're talking about.

Ok, I didn't realize how untouchable you were. I am glad you found a place for your ego on the internet, if only i were a psychologist and could make reason to why you are so stubborn. But reason isn't everything

You did not get my point. I was merely using that illustration because you used it first. The point here is that you are making an impossible suggestion because you do not know that it is impossible. Capiche?

Apparently you took this too seriously. Holes, LEAKS, like in any castle siege. There will eventually be spots for the forces to leak in.

Dude, the way you made the suggestion implied that you want us to make literal holes in the fort's walls. And you've been making a fuss on that particular subject, so how can I or takethat NOT take that seriously? And again, this is NOT castle siege. If every map were to be limited by what the current map's standards are, then nothing new can be created.

Like i said earlier, reason aint everything. Don't make yourself look dumb trying to put some sort of illogical reasoning. If you don't think that made it look obnoctious u are well out of ur mind.

I was being SARCASTIC in case you didn't realize. -_-'

I will pray to the gods for some advice worthy of your map.

Do. And while you're at it, you should pray that they grant you better logic and reasoning.

Okay, yes u are right. I thought he meant i had copied/pasted my response twice. good call, you are correct. I guess Kildare was already ready to celebrate "xD xD xD xD xD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Neh, i was just planning to say "I TOLD YOU SO". Such things are too trivial for me to celebrate on. xD

 

[takethat]

Well here you go, you are very convincing to waste someone's time.You keep saying this, but it has been agreed that your map is TOO simple but obviously you don't care. Then why post it up here? You should care. Unless it is some un-prioritized publicity u want.

simple as in your first sight? first review on the early version?

Yes, you say this. AFTER you tried to make a petition for unfair disapprove. AFTER you made many comments arguing with why you shouldn't need to make changes to get approved. AFTER you said the changes are not needed because it is a simple map. There are also many more posts that you use to shut down bad input, when the input is not really bad, but a suggestion to improve.

YOU BEEN IGNORING THAT HE HAD INDEED MODIFY, AND THE MAP IS NOW BEING APPROVED

Okay, and would u stand on a zombie spawn point? Maybe "build a base" on one of em? Because the minute you go outside you are practically standing on spawns.

this arguement is base on, "spawn point is everwhere outside the base", which is not true. if this is another "first sight" thinking, you are wasting time on emphasis on something you dont even know better.

Judging by my profile? My profile has all my credentials? Reading my profile, you know me and my abilities... hm. You know from the above post when you were talking about higher rank, i thought you were talking about the mod, so i thought you made sense. But you were talking about me being the lower class and that is the reason why i should and won't have any valid input to the map? Sorry i need to quote that again: Ok, I didn't realize how untouchable you were. I am glad you found a place for your ego on the internet, if only i were a psychologist and could make reason to why you are so stubborn. But reason isn't everything

firstly, my original meaning is that, "with same meaning in a comment, how you give it to others is very important, you maybe right, but your manner spoils the intention."

secondly, every one has their own field,
when we suggest to a professional mountain climber, he told you that part or whole of your suggestion can not be done, you may try to convice him harder, but would you then suggest to him:
"i suggest you stop climbing as you are so stubborn"

Apparently you took this too seriously. Holes, LEAKS, like in any castle siege. There will eventually be spots for the forces to leak in.

the only hole i saw in castle siege is in LOTR Helms Deep, never saw any hole in other siege map. Its not actually a hole also, having only 1 entrance + 1 big "hole", it is way more easier to defend then 4 entrance.

if adding hole is just a joke or something? then you shouldnt have keep on emphasis on it. it is very annoying in that way.

Like i said earlier, reason aint everything. Don't make yourself look dumb trying to put some sort of illogical reasoning. If you don't think that made it look obnoctious u are well out of ur mind.

you did not answer, your statement of, dont make map and defensive and stubborness stuff had anything related to the map?

I will pray to the gods for some advice worthy of your map.

you talk about illogical reasoning above, now you talk about god"S"
another of what you said "BS" that has nothing to do with the map.

Okay, yes u are right. I thought he meant i had copied/pasted my response twice. good call, you are correct. I guess Kildare was already ready to celebrate "xD xD xD xD xD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

i said you should tried using copy/paste function provided by the site.
Double Post is related to rules, every one should be serious on it, I don't think any one will need to celebrate for reminding some one they had double post.

 

[krisserz]

Again...

 

[Kildare]

i said you should tried using copy/paste function provided by the site.
Double Post is related to rules, every one should be serious on it, I don't think any one will need to celebrate for reminding some one they had double post.

Lol, well i actually do double post myself from time to time, but only in my own thread(usually for updates). And i think he meant that i celebrated because i proved him wrong at something.

 

[duke-zip]

That's only to YOU and a select number of Mods. For me and many others i've played with, the map is fine as it is. And again, you've failed to understand that this map is meant as a PLAYABLE "prototype"(for the lack of a better word) map.

in other words, the HIVE see's it too simple. there are a few prerequisites. people come here and dl a unique/quality map to host online. It could impress random bnet players, but that is where it could stay. If you just want to play with others and impress them, then why is it posted here? I don't say your map is bad, i just wonder why you have no interest in improving it. No one wants to come on hive just to dl a "playable" map.

And yet you fail to see that I DO see that those are suggestions to improve the map, but that those suggestions are NOT NECESSARY in context to what i have in mind for the map. Also, i fail to see what your statement here has anything to do with the comment you quoted.

Well you do not give reasons on why they are not necessary for your map. If someone suggests a logical feature, you usually give a reason or ideas you have. Like if i say "i like the Manastealer hero, but i think he should have more mana to be effective and use his spells." you could defend in "thanks, but I was looking more of the lines of him being a support. Stealing mana from an enemy hero is what he is meant to do to deplete their sources, not be an offense. Maybe i will give him some ways to spread that mana to the team, what do you think?" As far as i'm concerned, you have no ideas for future versions, and won't take advice. How was my statement irrelevant ?

That's not true. When i play with others, we ALWAYS build outside of the base. This only proves you have not done the necessary "exploring" in the map to know what you're talking about.

sorry i have not played the map 10 times. But who would play a simple... "playable" map over and over? The common sense to any first timer would be to stay indoors.

You did not get my point. I was merely using that illustration because you used it first. The point here is that you are making an impossible suggestion because you do not know that it is impossible. Capiche?

You could always revamp the base and throw in some doodads

Dude, the way you made the suggestion implied that you want us to make literal holes in the fort's walls. And you've been making a fuss on that particular subject, so how can I or takethat NOT take that seriously? And again, this is NOT castle siege. If every map were to be limited by what the current map's standards are, then nothing new can be created.

leaks are different than holes for the second time. Just because it is not castle siege doesn't mean there cannot be leaks, unless you are turning to the idea that this indeed should be a base defense.

I was being SARCASTIC in case you didn't realize. -_-'

I did not

Do. And while you're at it, you should pray that they grant you better logic and reasoning.

More sarcasm?

And i think he meant that i celebrated because i proved him wrong at something.

indeed

 

[takethat]

duke-zip, have you or have you not play the latest version?

 

[Kildare]

duke-zip, have you or have you not play the latest version?

I'll answer for him. YES, he has.

in other words, the HIVE see's it too simple. there are a few prerequisites. people come here and dl a unique/quality map to host online. It could impress random bnet players, but that is where it could stay. If you just want to play with others and impress them, then why is it posted here? I don't say your map is bad, i just wonder why you have no interest in improving it. No one wants to come on hive just to dl a "playable" map.

Again, i did not say that i have no interest in improving it. I'm just not improving it in the way that YOU want it to be improved. And another point you missed here is that i've already improved the map the way Hive has REQUIRED me to improve it.

Well you do not give reasons on why they are not necessary for your map. If someone suggests a logical feature, you usually give a reason or ideas you have. Like if i say "i like the Manastealer hero, but i think he should have more mana to be effective and use his spells." you could defend in "thanks, but I was looking more of the lines of him being a support. Stealing mana from an enemy hero is what he is meant to do to deplete their sources, not be an offense. Maybe i will give him some ways to spread that mana to the team, what do you think?" As far as i'm concerned, you have no ideas for future versions, and won't take advice. How was my statement irrelevant ?

That's because you're not LISTENING to what i'm saying, that's why you missed all the reasons. And what makes you think i have no ideas for future versions? I do, it's just that i haven't implemented/published them yet.

sorry i have not played the map 10 times. But who would play a simple... "playable" map over and over? The common sense to any first timer would be to stay indoors.

Then it's up to them i guess. It doesn't really matter. The point here is that they're not being FORCED to stay indoors. It's their own mentality that does.

You could always revamp the base and throw in some doodads

Yes, I could, but it would be much easier for me to move on to what i've really planned to do.

leaks are different than holes for the second time. Just because it is not castle siege doesn't mean there cannot be leaks, unless you are turning to the idea that this indeed should be a base defense.

Erm, please elaborate on what you mean by "leaks" because you're totally confusing us there. First you say that i should make holes in the fort so that they can come through them(like cracks), then now you say that it's not.

More sarcasm?

Good. You're catching on.

 

[Ricardo Irving]

I would like to help you and join you on this project.

 

[Swift9001]

Just not fun.

 

[Kildare]

Updated for 1.24 compatibility.

 

[EMPerror]

ok,i dont really get why everyone hates this map.
If you ask me, it's pretty finished. It is playable, it is relatively unique (in control terms) and pretty fun.

Now, don't get me wrong about what i'm gonna say... but some aspects of the game are too simple.

First of all, random weapons. Me and some friends survived solely by collecting them, didn't buy a thing (except ammo). Make them fall less often, and make them fall, not just appear.

Zombie spawns. Make them (or at least make a command) come periodically (like, 1 zombie every few seconds) and wander around the map. Make them have huge acquisition range, so they aggro easily.

everything else is great, i like the system in the map . 5/5

 

[Kildare]

Lol their acquisition range IS huge. =D

Anyway, i actually have a competitive version of this map. But i'm still balancing it. That one is more challenging.

 

[dansam92]

it's simple and easy. very funny. ^^
i'm surprised at harsh assessment of others.

 

[Tha Flamestorm]

You're breaking one of the rules- you aren't allowed to submit unfinished maps. Make a thread in the Map Development section in the Forums and upload this map as an attachment instead of re-uploading it in the Maps section.

Then half the maps, should fucking be Rejected then shouldn't they?

 

[Swift9001]

Then half the maps, should fucking be Rejected then shouldn't they?

Uh, no.

 

[GONZALORD]

omg really fun map man i really like your triggers you make a hard work and a nice terrain
5/5 for a great job

 

[Tha Flamestorm]

The map is great, why on bloody earth did the mods jump at you withotu even looking at the map? septimus calls this unpolished but its not even half done and its Freaking excellent, damn hive mods these days. >.>

 

[frostloh]

simple, but fun. this map should be updated, it's awesome