Why is "noise" a noob tool?

[Craphter]

I started terraining today, and I read in quite a lot of tutorials and comments that the tool "noise" is a noob tool, that shouldn't be used.
I would like to know why.
The way I see it, if used properly, complemented with a bit of smooth, can add some randomness to the terrain, make it look a bit more natural.
Look, here, I made this basic terrain, here it is without noise:

And here it is, with noise, and some smooth, so it's not so extreme:

Now, tell me, honestly, which terrain looks more natural?
At least in my opinion, with a bit of noise and smooth, it's more natural looking.

 

[PROXY]

You actually got a point there, but I'm no "professional" terrainer, so I can't give you any comment on that. But as I already said, you got a point there.

What most terrainers mean, is that the noise tool used alone looks totally unrealistic and noobish, as it just looks.. akward. But the way you used it, it looks pretty good.

 

[Azurot]

It can be extremely useful in making playable maps, especially for certain rock types as it gives it a more jagged/craggy feel which is great. But in art terrain it's easily the worst thing you can do. Generally you can create a similar effect, if not a better effect, with using raise and lower. But it comes down simply to your preference, if you can make noise look good then go for it.

 

[Racziel]

Well, noise is not that bad at all, but its realy important to find the right "smoothing-factor".
Most people fail at this and so most just avoid noise.
But most realy good pics are so covered with doodads, that you nearly can't guess, whether noise was used or not.
At least thats what i think.

 

[Oziris]

I use noise only in my PLAYABLE terrain, and then use the smooth tool after, which is a perfect combination. Raising and lowering is used when you have your own idea of how the ground is going to look like. The noise/smooth is when your out of ideas and want to make randomness or if you don't want the ground flat.

 

[Celaquil]

In summary:

Noise works for playable terrains.

It doesn't in terrain art.

My personal opinion though, is that using Noise is a cheap way out, even if you can manage to make it look good. It doesn't prove much artistic skill, nor any ideal of the artists general idea of creativity. I wouldn't go as far as to say "noob tool" though probably more acurately "lazy tool."

I am personally avoiding its usage in any terrain that I make.

 

[Craphter]

Ok, I get it, it's for playable terrains... Although in small amounts I do think it would work with art terrains... But I get your point.
Except Keiji's... I don't think there's such thing as a lazy tool in the WE; if it's there, it's because no other tool can do what it does. Simple.
I don't think I could achieve noise without the noise... Of course, with raise and lower, but it would look not so random, and take an insane amount of time, for such a simple thing.

 

[Cihparg]

Keiji, it does work for terrain art.
Why? Because some of are lazy and don't have the nerves to do it with other wais.
It's either for the lazy, or the ones who will lose nerves, and some lose the motivation.

Craphter, Smooth/Noise are the lazy tools of World Editor.

 

[Craphter]

So apart from noise and smooth, how would you do it?

 

[Oziris]

Use raise and lower tool?

 

[Ramza]

In summary:

Noise works for playable terrains.

It doesn't in terrain art.

My personal opinion though, is that using Noise is a cheap way out, even if you can manage to make it look good. It doesn't prove much artistic skill, nor any ideal of the artists general idea of creativity. I wouldn't go as far as to say "noob tool" though probably more acurately "lazy tool."

I am personally avoiding its usage in any terrain that I make.

You know, this reminds me a lot of a discussion we had a few weeks ago. Except that you are now me, if you know what I'm saying (the anology you made with paint and photoshop). xP

Why would you create a noise effect with the raise/lower tool? It takes much longer, and it probably won't look as good.

 

[Oziris]

It looks a lot better and the way you want it to be.

 

[Craphter]

Well I get it, you could use the raise and lower, but, using the noise tool wouldn't be lazy, it would be convenient.
Say I want to get to China, I could get there by plane, or simply walking.
If I walk, sure, it would be a lot better, would be much of an achievement, I could go the way I want to go. But, it would take me a few months.
If I take a plane, it would be an average trip, not very outstanding, and I couldn't pick where to go. But for fucks sake it would take me a few hours.

My point being, one thing is not being lazy, other is avoiding the tools you have to use others, and complicating your existence.

 

[Celaquil]

You know, this reminds me a lot of a discussion we had a few weeks ago. Except that you are now me, if you know what I'm saying (the anology you made with paint and photoshop). xP

Why would you create a noise effect with the raise/lower tool? It takes much longer, and it probably won't look as good.

For starters, there is no necessity in making a discussion out of a statement that I clearly state to be "my personal opinion."
(which essentially means that I am not claiming what I say to be true; only a personal perspective on what I find true to myself.)

And Ramza, I do not completely recall that argument, but I do suspect it had something to do with imports? Correct me if I am wrong there. And I can see how you say that, the only thing I have to say to my defence is that I have my own way of viewing talent as a terrainer.

Now, I do understand how my previous statement could cause some confusion towards what I meant. The thing is, and again in my personal opinion, you do get a much better result, when talking terrain art, by using the raise/lower tool in the editor, and it is sertainly not a waste of time doing so. If anyone disagree with me on that matter, be my guest, I am simply speaking out of experience.

And towards that end I name the noise tool the lazy tool because it is a lazy way of mimicking something that could look great, with something that looks half-good.

 

[2-P]

You don't rely on random elements in a terrain. The foliage tool in SC2 is an even better example, it's just utter trash.


Oh, of course you can use noise, then smooth the shit out of it and fine tune it with raise/lower afterwards, but that takes longer than just using raise+lower to begin with.
That's also why your example fails, you obviously spend more time on the noise version.

The noise tool in SC2 isn't that bad actually, since you can fine tune it and get decent results right away, but using noise in WC3 is just a waste of time.

 

[Raven0]

You don't want to ever have a bunch of random height variation in your terrain for a playable map. You DO want height variation, but you want it to be controlled and fixed, not just a bunch of random small hills.

The only time I can ever see using the noise tool is (as someone said above) if you are making rock formations. You use the raise tool and make a hill, cover it with a rock texture, and then use the noise tool on it.

 

[thedeathunterxx]

when people call the Noise tool a "Noob Tool," its probobly because when people use it, they dont smooth it out, and what you get is retarded looking spikes in teh ground.

of course after you smooth it out, you have a nice random hill pattern. Which is nice in many cases. i have actually used the noise tool in some of my terrains, but on very small scales, and only in the foreground, where you can usually not see it or grass covers it.

Noise is however not the best tool usually for alot of things. If you need to make a 256x256 map with hills, i suggest noise+smooth
If your making terrain art, then i highly go against it.